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I think it is true there are many different players in different phases of the game when it comes to LTE (hell, even 3G) rollout. But one thing is for sure, no one (anywhere in the world) is past the "novelty test market" phase.

Right this minute. Sure. By June of 2011 errr no.

http://www.fiercewireless.com/europ...rollout-plan-huge-2g-network-boost/2010-07-07

There are numerous places that are currently in the "novelty test market" phase. So yeah they are not past it yet. However, they are extremely unlikely to sit stuck in those phases for another 12 months.


Besides, the apps for a 4G network just don't exist.

apps ? eh? Other than the thousands that currently exist ? You do not need a new app classification for 4G network. heck all they primarily give you is the same internet speed many have at home. Did people need new apps for broaband? No! You got to stop looking at the "updating" animation in your web browser among other things. Merely running the old pokey ones faster is sufficient to add value.

Likewise if users keep they bandwidth usage roughtly constant also get rid of congestion problems. Egregious bandwidth hog apps are actually bad in the aggregate view. They tend to screw up networks.




The 3G providers out there haven't even matured their 3G networks yet,

LTE is 3G (3.9). That is maxing out your 3G network before going to 4G.

Look Verizon could bump their CMDA/EV-DO network up to SVDO also before later decomissioning them. It is a matter of proirities though. AT&T just recently sank tons of money into their 3.5 ugrades so makes sense to push those slightly before bumping to 3.9. Verizon had mainly a software delployment upgrade to go to EV-DO A. So they haven't recently burnt tons of cash into infrastructure so they are do. There is extremely little advantage for them to nickel and dime another upgrade. This way they will be done in two years while ATT is screwing around with LTE deployments.
That means Verizon will be set up to jump on real 4G when it comes time while ATT is still recovering from their last round of hardware upgrades.



Lighting up test markets itself will take 12-18 months, and that's based on the most aggressive schedule put forth by the telcos themselves (who have a history of rampant optimism in their network PR pieces).

But they already did that 12 months ago. It is not like Verizon LTE deployment has been on hold for last two years. They finished the first two test deployments last year.

http://news.vzw.com/news/2009/08/pr2009-08-14f.html
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Verizon-Successfully-Tests-LTE-In-Boston-Seattle-103962

How many years you think they are going to spend testing ? Personally, I think one is plenty. Not sure what going to find in year 2 that didn't find in year 1 if had a decent test plan.

They have already slipped on schedule several times. 2-3 years ago LTE was suppose come early-mid 2010. then mid 2010 ... now late 2010 ( which effectively is December ... pratically 2011 ). They are already in the overdue deadlines zone. Verizon has pushed out the date to get a bigger launch coverage number. 100 million is about 1/3 of the US population. That is certainly a big enough number to launch into.

Plus they have done things like drop LTE coverage into major airport areas where the associated city itself doesn't officially have coverage. It isn't just "number of people" that is important. It also is being where the users are when they need high value added network boost. Initally the bleeding edge phones are going to be expensive which means more professionals are going to have them.
 
. I am not sure Apple will announce it in January either, like so many people are saying, that will just hurt iPhone 4 sales.

If it is an iPhone 4 with a different radio it is still an iPhone 4. That is like saying grey iPod hurt blue iPod sales.... they don't.

If Apple releases a Jan-March phone just for Verizon then it will probably just work on Verizon's network. If getting only a substantially different merged "world" phone ( iPhone 5 ) then probably will only get a merged one in June. Guess what? New phone was widely known to be coming in June anyway... doesn't hurt sales.
 
I had pretty bad experiences with Sprint WiMax in Atlanta. There were few areas it would have nice speed (much faster than AT&T or Verizon 3g) download, but about the same upload and latency (300ms) as 3g. But I found this coverage so hard to find, probably in about 10% of the places I go. At least half the places, I couldn't connect at all, and for all but 1 or 2 of the other half, it was worse than 3g coverage.

Without having the coverage, it was pretty useless to me, so I opted for 3g with better coverage than Sprint WiMax. At first I tried downgrading to Sprint's 3g network, but had pretty bad coverage issues (just as bad as AT&T 3g). I finally got the Verizon 3g (MiFi device) and it is great. I have working coverage in about 90 - 95% places I go, with much more consistent speeds than AT&T or Sprint. I'm really pleased with it, and can do what I need (browse the web, connect to some stock market charting software) no problem.

I have the iPhone + iPad and am now going to cancel my iPad plan through AT&T since I just use the Verizon MiFi of course.

Right now, my iPhone's power button and volume buttons don't work (I dropped my phone a few too many times :p), and I have 3 months before I am eligable to be free of AT&T's early termination fee. I'm going to try to hold out for the Verizon iPhone hopefully early next year, as I have been extremely dissatisfied with the AT&T service in downtown Atlanta in terms of dropped calls, coverage, and voice quality (voices fade in and out in about 25% of my calls). When I lived in Los Angeles I didn't have any of these issues, AT&T's voice and data were just as good as Verizon, but here in Atlanta it is a very different story.

While I am relatively happy with Verizon's 3g, am def looking forward to upgrading to LTE with them, which their web site claims is coming to my home address by 2010 end of year. I purposely pre-paid my MiFi device so there is no termination fee to switch from 3g to LTE whenever it comes out. I would have to buy the MiFi device though, but that is fine.

The main reason I'm interested in LTE over 3g is the ping is supposed to be vastly better, around 50ms instead of 300ms with bursts to 1000ms. That makes video twitch gaming possible like Team Fortress 2 etc, and otherwise would provide a smoother experience.

So I do think it will be a missed opportunity if Apple doesn't offer LTE in the next iPhone, say as a $300 higher price. Someone like me, who would otherwise be paying $200 or so anyway for a new LTE modem/MiFi, would gladly pay a bit more to eliminate one device. That would be a lot of extra money going into Apple's pockets, instead of Verizon's.
 
Considering that 4G isn't the standard yet in countries like Japan, I'd say I agree that it won't come as soon as the American companies say it will.
 
I had pretty bad experiences with Sprint WiMax in Atlanta. .

Sprint/Clearwire WiMax runs up on the 2.5GHz range.

Wifi (802.11g ) runs at 2.4GHz. Notice how folks need add repeaters just to cover their house because a couple of decently built walls drops the signal. 2.5 .... same problem even though radios run at different power.

The problem is that the higher the frequency the more towers you need.
 
Nice strategy! Hope the rumor is true that this will be a GSM/CDMA dual mode phone.

cheers
JohnG
 
Good News

I don't care much for AT&T. I will pay the penalty and switch back to Verizon. One thing I do need is GSM for when I travel overseas. I'd like to be able to pop in a SIM card for any areas I've visiting and buying a top up card for the short period I've visiting. Now, that would be cool. Verizon's network while in the US and GSM for the world.

The only other thing I'd like is to opt out of the data plan, or a reasonably priced pay as you go data plan without any reoccuring automated billing. I have Wifi everywhere I go, I don't need data.
 
The trick is getting people to buy in June 2011. We're right now seeing all these LTE rollouts and plans. By June 2011, LTE will be the marketing buzzword.

Lacking LTE when it's going to be plastered all over will probably mean Android will again soar past the iPhone next year, even more than they have this year. Who wants last year's tech ?

LTE or no LTE, the iPhone will still sell. Why is it so important to some of you how many phones with the android os are sold compared to the iPhone? What is the relevancy of that argument? Those who want the iPhone will buy the iPhone. Those who don't will buy another phone.
 
Too bad about the 4G... is this really confirmed though? Apple seems to usually be on the early side of adopting new standards... e.g. Wireless N. A counter argument might well be the lack of USB 3.0 ports on even the Mac Pros, despite their being common on new PC motherboards these days.

Early side? They can't even adapt current technology into new products. Remember the lack of 3G on the first iPhone? Or even copy and paste on the early iPhones... even video recording or MMS on the earlier iPhones? I waited until the 3GS before buying one, because the iPhones until then were just silly with their crippling.

And for Mac adaptation? Bluray still isn't included. USB 3.0, like you said. How long did it take for them to add glossy screens (and then make it the standard, rather than maintaining choice?). Or do you even remember how long it took for USB 2.0 to appear in the laptops? Higher resolution screens?

Apple is slllllllloooooooooooow to add current technology in their products. Unless it's so new that it isn't even relative yet (yet another new display port adapter), Apple sits on technology a few years before adding it.
 
Early side? They can't even adapt current technology into new products. Remember the lack of 3G on the first iPhone? Or even copy and paste on the early iPhones... even video recording or MMS on the earlier iPhones? I waited until the 3GS before buying one, because the iPhones until then were just silly with their crippling.

And for Mac adaptation? Bluray still isn't included. USB 3.0, like you said. How long did it take for them to add glossy screens (and then make it the standard, rather than maintaining choice?). Or do you even remember how long it took for USB 2.0 to appear in the laptops? Higher resolution screens?

Apple is slllllllloooooooooooow to add current technology in their products. Unless it's so new that it isn't even relative yet (yet another new display port adapter), Apple sits on technology a few years before adding it.

Why would they include 4G in the iphone 5. They will put 1 or 2 dcent improvements into the ip5, then some programs that only run on ip5 so people will flock to the new phone, sell millions with billions in profit. Then in 2012 incorporate 4G and sell more millions and more billions in profit, simply genius. We, the suckers, keep the cycle going
 
they better have a bunch of new features if they want the mid-2011 iPhone to sell... 4G was one main reason on why I would buy it. oh well for that one!

Personally I couldn't really care less-I mean the software and hardware both need major work-the network speed isn't an issue on phones IMO, and even if it were, I'm skeptical about how fast this roll out will be, given the decade it took the 3G rollout (which STILL isn't really finished).

On the hardware side, dual core A9 should help these things quit feeling pokey...I hope. And on software, we still don't have true multitasking, it still doesn't do PIM or office suite stuff as well as a 1999 Palm OS device, etc. For that matter, they could really use a 4" or larger model.

I wonder if the antenna issues are addressed.

Hopefully. Though you'd hope they would have already fixed it on the current version. You'd think they'd take it seriously when Consumer Reports drops their recommendation-particularly going into the holiday season.
 
Not enough LTE network in America by 2013?......just another thing we can lag behind Europe and Asia in :(
 
Yes! BeyondtheTech is right. And if you do not need ESPN, why pay for it on your cable bundle, oh and if you don't have any kids, why pay for the Disney Channel?

We need a TEAPARTY for tech.

*Sigh* It's sad really, Americans are so accustomed to being lubed up and bent over by our crap Telecoms that we can't even imagine what it's like to be able to choose your own hardware, then choose your service provider. We've been conditioned so well that most people aren't even aware that practices like SIM-locking and phone/service bundling are illegal in some countries.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)

We don't want 4G on iPhones before it's ready, and niether does apple. If there truly are some problems with it still, then I want them taken care of before I use it. Less headache that way. Also, I'm perfectly happy with 3G. I'll be even happier when 4G is ready.
 
Look Verizon could bump their CMDA/EV-DO network up to SVDO also before later decomissioning them. It is a matter of proirities though. AT&T just recently sank tons of money into their 3.5 ugrades so makes sense to push those slightly before bumping to 3.9. Verizon had mainly a software delployment upgrade to go to EV-DO A. So they haven't recently burnt tons of cash into infrastructure so they are do. There is extremely little advantage for them to nickel and dime another upgrade. This way they will be done in two years while ATT is screwing around with LTE deployments.
That means Verizon will be set up to jump on real 4G when it comes time while ATT is still recovering from their last round of hardware upgrades.

I thought SVDO was a handset implementation? This is from the qualcomm website:

New devices with simultaneous voice and data

Simultaneous 1X voice and EV-DO data (SVDO) is a new, standard-independent device feature that significantly enhances user experience without impacting the infrastructure side. In today' s networks, a device can be paged to receive 1X voice calls while in an EV-DO data session. However, no data connectivity is possible while in a voice call. SVDO changes this by establishing independent voice and data sessions using separate transmit and receive chains in the device.

The SVDO feature can be effectively utilized by many applications. For example, users will be able to send emails or access the web while on voice calls; phones with GPS can update maps or download real-time traffic information while on voice calls, etc.

The SVDO feature will be supported in new devices, and will work with 1X or 1X Advanced with EV-DO Rev. A or Rev. B. Qualcomm is planning to support the SVDO feature in all of its new EV-DO MSM chipsets.

Qualcomm is well positioned to support operators in the evolution of their CDMA2000 networks with a strong line up of industry-leading infrastructure and device chipsets. Together with its many global partners, Qualcomm is driving wireless growth with a powerful technology roadmap that extends the value of CDMA2000 well into the future.
 
We don't want 4G on iPhones before it's ready, and niether does apple. If there truly are some problems with it still, then I want them taken care of before I use it. Less headache that way. Also, I'm perfectly happy with 3G. I'll be even happier when 4G is ready.

And when it's ready in June 2011, that'll be a long wait to June 2012 to get it. :rolleyes:

The fact that people are looking at this with October 2010 glasses doesn't help. You need to look 6 months down the road. With deployments on the way now, in 6 months, it's going to be a whole other ball game.
 
I can see why a multi-band "world phone" is good for Apple because it is fewer SKU's.

I can see why it is good for Chinese or Verizon customers because they can get an iPhone for the network they are married to.

To me the best way this could help PEOPLE is to make it "multi-homing" so you use whatever network and plan you have for the strongest reception signal. The thing I like least about AT&T is when the DATA signal is weak you cannot "roam" on another network's resources. If you had buckets of megabytes for both AT&T and Verizon and it used them as and when best, that would be sweet.

When LTE really arrives I hope they do the above for it, too.

Rocketman
 
But so what? Even if LTE rolls out as fast as they claim this time, and even if you're in an LTE area, and even if they don't raise prices like Sprint has on Wimax, how does it benefit me on a 3.5" display? I mean I'm sure it could somewhat, but it's really the software and hardware that are the big issue there IMO.
 
Seriously, what's the arm in shipping a LTE capable phone with 3G fallback ? Even if LTE is really limited, when you can use it it works, and when you can't, you get 3G all the same.
Ok so you want an iPhone that will have GSM, CDMA and LTE chip and be able to do 3G/4G (where available) and Edge in the sticks? And you want it for $199? Yes, I do too, but I'm afraid Apple would like to make a few billion on just offering an plain vanilla CDMA phone for Verizon customers and then a few more billion on "just" offering a GSM/CDMA phone first...

... then ramp up to the work-everywhere phone when LTE is proven and reliable. Geez, haven't they had enough problems with AT&T networks that are so iffy? Give them a little time. The first CDMA iPhone is not even out.

Just because it's possible to build the phone you want, doesn't make it a great business decision to do it just now.
 
Yeah, and well the gasoline powered engine is a decent alternative to electric vehicules too, you don't see many people championing living in the past on that now do you ? :rolleyes:

Sure you do.

I mean, I could get a Prius. Or a Honda CRX. Or a VW Jetta TDI. Or a Chevy Volt. And ALL end up with around 50mpg.

3 out of 4 of those may have electric motors, but they ALL have internal combustion engines. Like the majority of all cars sold today.

Look, this whole "3G sucks, I must have 4G" thing is pretty much like, "I live in San Francisco. My Lexus sucks because it tops out at 140mph. I must have an Audi R8." It looks nice. But it doesn't mean you'll be able to get to work faster.
 
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