But a little bit is OK?
Yes. With one person.
That's what I meant. Not a lot of different partners.
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Missed my chance with a girl - may have another - what now?
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Yes. With one person.
That's what I meant. Not a lot of different partners.
Dude, what are you 14 years old?
You should have made your move when you had the chance. If she threw it out there and you didn't accept, she'll just think your a child or scared. It's not the girl's job to make the move.
And you've been waiting well over a year? Seriously? Wtf? This is one girl you probably barely know. You should have been actively pursuing others you've run across.
This isn't complex, they either like you or they don't. You make the move, who cares if it is awkward? If you're scared to make a move every time because of it being 'awkward' then you'll spend your life alone. She would respect your move if you would stop being a girl about it.
And about dates... Yeah, you can take her on a date. After you sleep with her.
*PLEASE* learn this now before it's too late.
You never had her. Seriously, stop being a child and start being a man. She'll either reject you or she'll be into it. This isn't difficult, take a risk. You have _NOTHING_ to lose.
You should have made your move when you had the chance. If she threw it out there and you didn't accept, she'll just think your a child or scared. It's not the girl's job to make the move.
And you've been waiting well over a year? Seriously? Wtf? This is one girl you probably barely know. You should have been actively pursuing others you've run across.
This isn't complex, they either like you or they don't. You make the move, who cares if it is awkward? If you're scared to make a move every time because of it being 'awkward' then you'll spend your life alone. She would respect your move if you would stop being a girl about it.
And about dates... Yeah, you can take her on a date. After you sleep with her.
*PLEASE* learn this now before it's too late.
You never had her. Seriously, stop being a child and start being a man. She'll either reject you or she'll be into it. This isn't difficult, take a risk. You have _NOTHING_ to lose.
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Friend zone. You're her bff.
Of course she wants to keep you around. You're a shoulder to cry on and such a 'nice guy' and 'i wish all guys could be like you', etc etc.
She kept you around because you're a friend, nothing more.
That's awesome.
What the hell? God, this is why nice guys are so creepy. It should be the first thing on your mind. It's like WTF? Why would I want a girlfriend if I didn't want to get in her pants? If I wanted a friend, I would hang out with a guy.
You don't even know her. You don't love her, you've literally become infatuated with her by working yourself up that she is some unconquerable Goddess.
The above makes me think you put women on a pedestal. You do.
You know the kind of guys I see *********s "bitches" and "sluts"? Guys who aren't getting laid. Seriously.
You want to know why you wouldn't do it with "some slut" from the local bar? Because you have no clue how.
You don't get it, you are getting nothing. You're running around with your secret crush when she sees you as just a friend. Are you getting laid by her? No? Then you're getting nothing.
That's awesome. Sounds like the kind of relationship I have with my guy friends.
Wait for what exactly? Is she waiting around thinking "I really wish he would just ask me out"?
Ok. When was the last time you had sex? With anything.
Dude... you aren't cool at being single, you just don't know how to have a sexual relationship with someone. I honestly can't believe what I'm reading here.... this entire post reads like someone with some sort of delusion.
How old are you? PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE go find another girl. Have sex with her. Have sex with another girl. Please.
Your beliefs about women are NOT healthy. They are disturbing.
You need to realize you can't live like this...You are putting this girl on a pedestal. You are friendzoned and will always be friendzoned.
And you just don't get it. You will go life calling all the girls "sluts" because they are hooking up with other guys (sometimes guys they just met!)... while not getting anything.
Get this, the last four girls I've hooked up with this year, it's all been on the first or second night. And none of them are 'sluts,' they just know what they want.
I hope this girl screws you over. Not because I like to see someone in pain but so you grow up, grow a pair and learn to be a man. I suggest you solicit advice from a friend who is good with women...
This entire thread... argh, it's so hard to believe it's true.
My friend, I was once just like you... You _NEED_ to make a change. I was 25, little sexual experience, scared to talk to women or get in a relationship. All those who hooked up with random guys were 'sluts.'
Know what I did? I got out there, started approaching women at the bars and clubs... It was real hard at first. My friends had been telling me for years to do this and I never would. They were getting laid, I wasn't.
I made a change, I started approaching. I made friends with people who went out and approached... I quickly surpassed them. I started hooking up with girls and dating girls, etc etc... Live life my friend. You can do this.
You don't love this girl and you don't need her.
So the only thing relationships are good for is having sex? Got it, thanks....
That post is simply disgusting. Not only advocating meaningless promiscuity but reveling in such "accomplishments". Have we really sunk this low? We can't aspire to better? Very discouraging, almost to the point of nausea.
Good grief. Don't any guys in this thread have any balls ?
I'm old ok ?
In my day people hooked up all the time and it wasn't disgusting or sick or anything like that.
It..Was...Normal...
I'm old ok ?
In my day people hooked up all the time and it wasn't disgusting or sick or anything like that.
It..Was...Normal...
Will those with a delicate disposition please vomit from the left side of the bus. Thank you. Remember that this discussion is for the jilted and the juvenile.
KGB
Thank you for an intelligent, sane, tolerant post. Excellent and well-written post. And thank you for drawing attention to the casual misogyny offered by way of response to a woman exercising her right of choice.
However, as seems so often to be the case when discussing such topics, the casual (and unconscious but unchallenged) misogyny in some of these threads remains all too disturbingly visible.
Again, another excellent post. Well said.
As a female, I just have to ask all the people that are advocating that he make a move right now to explain their reasoning a little further... If someone is in a relationship and you know it, I can hardly think of a more insulting/unattractive thing than asking them out, regardless of how much you "like" her or not.
Put yourself in her boyfriend's shoes. How would you feel if her supposed "friends" all started hitting on her? I say props for the OP for not being that sort of lowlife who poaches other guys' girlfriends...
Otherwise, I think the advice in the thread has been solid. Don't make this girl your be-all-end-all and succumb to the xkcd-delusion. And *IF* they actually break up (note the BIG "if", because you really have no idea), make your move quick-ish if you want a shot at being with her.
Just my 2 cents...
As always, Daffodil, the voice of sanity, tolerance and reason. I agree with you.
Eric, all is not fair in love and war. Manners and (mutual) respect trump a sense of entitlement in my view..
Oh, the divinities I don't really believe in, please help us here. Good God. This is sadly revealing of some deeply disturbing and frankly, unpleasant attitudes towards women. What an ugly set of values and attitudes to express towards anyone. Is this a ghastly post-modern take on the old Madonna/whore dichotomy? Seriously, is this how you see women?
I honestly don't get the contempt expressed towards the concept of friendship with a woman; slaked passions are all very well, but, to my mind, the very best relationships are those where friendship, affection, respect, love, and desire as well as lust are all part of the package.
All's fair in love and war is hardly an entitlement point of view, and just because you think that manners have a place in courtship (or war, lol?) doesn't make it so.
The reason this quote has endured is because of the truthfulness of it, which, I find it hard for anybody to deny.
If you're referring to our responses to gotanimac, there is nothing wrong with hooking up.
The problem we have is his stance towards relationships. He said have sex with a woman first before you decide to date her. That having sex should be #1 priority in wanting a girlfriend(what happened to love?). Those are the issues I have with that post.
Jesus, in the time this kid has been pondering what to do people have found love, lost love, got married, had kids, bought a couple iPhones, sold a couple iPhones, bitched about retina/non-retina, found yellow screens and blue screens, etc. It's absolutely exhausting to watch this poor kid go through this; find another girl, please!
Thank you. My issue with this thread is there is a very misogynist view of women and they don't even realize it. It's perfectly fine to call a women at the bar a 'slut', yet 'meaningless promiscuity' is 'disgusting.'
What is 'meaningless promiscuity' anyway?
Yes. And it's logical. It's a waste of time to be dating for months to find out you're not sexually compatible. That's my view, yours may differ.
Since when does sex equal love?
What I'm saying is, there's nothing wrong with having sex and than deciding if you want to date or be in a relationship.
And to those who wait to have sex, that's fine too.
I guess I should rescind my posts. The OP should continue to leer in the shadows, hoping the girl will finally make a move on him (not going to happen), while referring to other women as 'sluts.'
This story reminds me of a girl I date some months back. We got together the first night we met and she had a big fat BFF. It was so obvious that this guy was in love with her but would never, ever, ever make a move. All he did was passive aggressively talk about me behind my back while smiling in my face to the point she hated him.
So the only thing relationships are good for is having sex? Got it, thanks....
You must be friend zone'd a lot.
The point was the OP is friend zone'd. All the little things he describe are big glaring, neon flashing signs of it. Of course he can't see it, he thinks he has a chance.
Moving on is the best thing that could happen to him and again, it would save us the yearly "I think this time it's my chance!" threads (I linked to last year's thread about this same girl on page 1).
Being friend zone'd is a good learning experience for any guy if they haven't went through it once. You learn then and there that it's useless to play "nice guy till she likes me". Be direct and ditch. Rinse, repeat until you find one. "I don't see you as a boyfriend, but let's be friends" is best answered with : "Yeah, let's do that" and never talking to the girl again.
Your first two posts made it out that the only thing you were after was sex. Now that you have stated your stance and cleared it up, I understand what you are saying.
Like you said, I have a different view. While I think having sex before marriage is important in building a healthy relationship, I don't believe in having sex with a woman first before deciding if I want to date her and want her as my girlfriend. I'm more concerned about being emotionally compatible first than I will worry about sexually. Having sex isn't my #1 priority in wanting a GF either. It's certainly in the top 5 or so, but not #1.
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Yeah, I knew it was wrong, but it was a like a Country song, you know it's wrong, but it feels so right. There's a whole lot more to the story, but in any event, I paid the price.
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Why not? If women want equality, then they have to earn it, and that includes putting yourself out there and getting rejected on a regular basis. None of this passive &^%*, expect guys to pay and pay and pay, then dump them when a better ride comes along. Rant. Rant. Rant. I love dating, it's so much fun.
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So the guy asked for advice and we've given it to him from all sorts of perspectives. I think that the best is saying that if she is going out with someone, then you can't really ask her out, since all that does is cause more problems.
On the other hand, letting her know that you are interested in her, not as an object but as a person, will go a long way to letting her know your interest, so when she is free of this other guy, you can ask her out and you will get a more human response rather than the "ewww, why would I want to go out with a loser who can't manage to get a date with anyone else".
I don't think that women really care if you've had a million dates or one, what they want is to feel appreciated and special, just as everyone does. You can fear rejection, and we all live with that, but if you think she might be worth it, then you have to go for it. Even if she rejects you, the truth of it is that is all she did. It may a small soul killing moment, but you will survive.
To quote Shakespeare (I think): it is better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all.
Good luck with that.
The only women I've known who expect guys to pay for everything are the ones I wouldn't be interested in anyway.
In my experience, it is the low value ones who expect me to buy/pay for everything in exchange for physical affection.
That's why I dislike dating until you are already intimate with each other. You've developed feelings, physical and mental, from hanging out and enjoying each other's company.
Rather than some guy taking a girl on some stereotypical dinner, buying her flowers, etc and then expecting sex. That's just pathetic.
This guy is hopeless unless he wants to change. He's so far friend zoned there is absolutely nothing he can do except disappear from her life for a period of time and come back a different man.
He needs to move on. He's put this girl so high on a pedestal it will be impossible for him to view her as the human she is.
He doesn't need to ask her out on a 'date'. God. If they are friends (and they are) I assume they hang out together, alone.
Just invite her out to get drinks, play pool, some event you're going to, etc. This isn't complicated.
An example I'll give. The last girl I dated, we had met at a bar and went out dancing that night. A few days later I invited her to a 50s dance party at a local bar around here, she met me there and then we went back to my place.
We really hit it off and a week later I took her out on a 'date'. We went to a trampoline park (this is a lot of fun guys and if you have one nearby, take your girl!) and then to dinner/drinks.
This doesn't have to be complicated.
This guy is literally making it seem he's embarking on some magic quest for the holy grail.
Hold ->
Do you hang out with this girl outside of work? Have you ever met up with her when you were out with your friends?
Here is what you do:
Invite her out for drinks.
Talk to her. Try to flirt a little by touching her. See how she reacts.
She'll either let you know she's into you or not by her body language.
If she's into you, try to escalate forward. If not, go onto the next.
If she rejects you, so what? At least you know she's not into you rather than spending years of your life wondering "what if?"
Seriously, it's downright creepy that you've been having feelings for this girl fr years and you haven't given her any indication that you're interested... and more than likely, if she was into you, she gave you signals and you either missed them or were too frightened to escalate on them.
Do you realize there are millions of women in relationships that meet new guys ?
Can she not make her own decisions? Is it wrong to flirt? Are you assuming she would cheat if he flirted with her?
The only one who needs to grow up is you, that's why your fiance left you. You have a misguided view of women and relationships in general.
To go out on a date with a woman in a relationship and then to touch her and flirt with her in an attempt to seduce her away from her boyfriend is slimy.
I am not talking about her- hello! Read the above to see what I am referencing.
You don't know me, I left my fiance because he was a liar and a cheat. I am not misguided, it's called I have respect for myself and others and I have moral principles and standards. By the way, I'm gay so it wasn't a woman I was engaged to... goes to show how much you know.
Where did you see me say anything about touching her ?
All I said was women in relationships meet new guys all the time.
You quoted me. I was not talking about women in relationships meeting new guys. You edited my post. I was talking about what I quoted from gotanimac's post about suggesting the op ask the woman out on a drink date and touch her and flirt with her.