Mission Control Replacement?

[Phechs]

I totally agree about other ide's, IMO visualStudio cant be beat (even phpstorm/netbeans/eclipse soar above xcode in many ways).

P.S. I hope we get a mission control replacement soon, that is genius enough to know how to drag one window to another "desktop" without needing to waste a click switching to that desktop, or better yet, actually expose all windows... and there we are, back onto the topic ;-)

Any dev's out there wanting to make some decent $$$, this is a tool that some would pay $$$ for, just saying

 

[KnightWRX]

I dont personally know a single dual/triple-monitor OSX user that enjoys using iLion, but then again, this thread is titled "Mission Control Replacement?", so we're here to find/create solutions; hopefully before more people revert back to SL, like me, or just leave the mac platform(reluctantly). I've used Apple, every version of the os since around MacOS 6, and, for my particular workflow, I'm likely going to attempt a switch to Linux if 10.8 goes(and it likely will) any moreso into an iOS direction for the operating system, which is great for their shareholders/marketshare & some/many users, but not for users that have, um how can I put this without offending, a "complex" workflow (flame on ;-).

oh joy, I cant wait until a 2gig+ PSD file is autosaved in 10.8 ;-)
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/os_x_lion_is_auto_save_a_savior_or_nightmare/
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3195261?start=0&tstart=0

I haven't investigated how autosave and versions work yet, but I doubt in this age of block level snapshotting technologies like ZFS, LVM, Netapp and even Microsoft (VSC) implement that Apple would save an entire file for a minor change to 2 or 3 inodes.

So in essence, you're not saving a 2gig+ PSD file in multiple versions (each taking 2 gigs), as with any of the listed above technologies, only the actual blocks that have been changed would be saved on new inodes/blocks and a version would be a map of those inodes.

to quote ANOTHER(not me) iLion user: "Ok, could you do me a favor and tell me, how can I open a text file using Textedit, and then save it with a new encoding, when "Save As" dialog is missing ? And how can it be that you call this missing feature "new and better" ?

(Btw, I can do the above task with a workaround using different s/w, but not with Textedit anymore. Textedit is now crippled because of this)."
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/14142452/

His question was answered, multiple times, shown to be quite possible using the Duplicate feature. He just didn't like the answer because it proved him wrong.

And really, the iLion and iMissionControl stuff is not helping your credibility here and isn't establishing you as a mature poster. Quite the contrary. Heck, I wished my iPhone had features like Mission Control but frankly, the iOS task manager is a complete disaster, application switching using the springboard is a nightmare and finding out what is running or not is a completely futile exercise.

These are things Palm got right on webOS actually. My TouchPad is not much of a use, nor is it quite up to snuff like an iPad, but application and task switching is a breeze, fun and easy to do. Seeing what is running is intuitive and quite precise.

 

[Phechs]

I wont even go into how many times nearly every pixel changes in a 2gig+ PSD(or LDF) that I create/work-with (this should be a given), every few saves would potentially yield a completely unique set of pixels. Say hello to 10 gig PSD/LDF's thanks to autosave (if adobe is crazy enough to adopt this as a required feature, hope not), oh joy. Auto-Save needs a global off switch! Unless we're going to have all our files mirrored as binaries and start using GIT, these files are going to get absurd.

I dont need credibility in this thread, I could care less what anyone thinks of my posts, I just want to look for an iMissionControl replacement. We already found Change Space, and Hyperdock, a decent step along the right path, but lacking as an expose/spaces replacement (good progress though).

I'm not saying you're wrong, or not a "pro", or whatever; I'm just saying that iMissionControl doesn't work for me (or any of the mac users I personally know), I personally get nothing but complaints about missioncontrol, I'm happy that it does work for you though, great.

Most of us in this thread are just trying to share thoughts and solutions as to how to deal with this hinderance to our productivity/workflow. We, in this thread, all know how much iLion works for you. It hinders us, we want to find solutions for what we consider broken functionality.

 

[Phechs]

But frankly, but are awful compared to other IDEs out there so it's a toss really.

completely agree, I have to fight xcode more than any other IDE to get it to "perform". It seems you've found a harmony with iLion, thats a very good thing, for you. The rest of us need a replacement for iMissionControl, and HOPE it doesnt go any moreso in the iOS direction in 10.8. I've donated to the developer of Change Space, as its already been a very decent soltion(wish is showed window previews), but still, I'm left wanting Wine/xWine to begin supporting OSX, for obvious reasons.

I'm all for users that find iLion a better upgrade to SL, but I, and all of those I know, do not agree. The only redeeming point to iLion is that it natively (covertly) supports all recent nvidia cards(with a little ktext edit), still though, its not enough imo.

 

[strausd]

KnightWRX, I have a some challenges for you. First, go back and look at how many +1s (or in your case -1s) your comments have on the last 2 pages and compare them to other people's comments. Obviously, more people disagree with you than agree with you. There is your first reality check.

Next, go and read the original post 7 times so you can maybe understand it better.

I run a dual monitor setup.

Assumptions, what a mistake.

I am running a dual monitor setup plus a TV, so that makes 3. And Mission Control is awful for dual monitors. So are full screen apps. Many professionals use multiple monitors. Many Lion features are awful on multiple monitors. Just another example of how Snow Leopard's features are more professional. Lion is a laptop operating system aimed at the average consumer. That is all it is.

And really, we're stretching hairs here. Lion, Snow Leopard, both have very primitive implementations of virtual desktops. "Professional" features ? Please. There's nothing "professional" there where a home user doesn't need it, but some guy working a job does (that's what professional means).

Once again your critical reading skills are sub par. I never said Lion was not professional, all I said is that the features in Snow Leopard are more professional. That word "more" is key here and I suggest you go read through my comments again to help you grasp them a little better.

The reason the word "more" is key is because it is not defining Snow Leopard as the sole professional OS. Instead, the word "more" is only aiding in ranking the features. Let us do a little scenario to help you out. Pretend I were to ask you to rate 3 different types of food on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being worst and 10 being best, and you rated them as 3, 8, and 9. Now, from that scale, the food you ranked as 9 is better than the food ranked as 8. However, that does not mean that the food ranked as 8 is bad. No, instead, it only means that the food ranked as 9 is better in comparison than the food you rankes as 8. The one that was ranked as 3 would be worse than the one ranked as 8. But if you had another one ranked as 4 and said that the food ranked as 3 is worse than the food ranked as 4, that is not saying the food at 4 is good. Again, it is only in comparison. I hope this helps, because you are making the same mistake when talking about professional and non professional and continue to miss a key word. That is why I suggest you go and read my comments again because your critical reading skills have caused you to misunderstand multiple times what I was saying. Again, hopefully this helped.

So really, people being pissed off at "All windows expose" and declaring Mission Control a failure for switching from a "tons of visual scanning" to a more organized paradigm (because yes, subjectively, I think Mission Control is better organized with more emphasis on going where you want, rather than Snow Leopard's "visually scanning and trying to find what you want" way) is really laughable to me.

That is your opinion, and only your opinion and not fact. Also, more people have the opinion opposite of you.

Mission Control hides your windows when you have even more than two windows open in the same app. Snow Leopard doesn't. That my friend is a fact. And the fact that you consider Mission Control more organized when it is the exact opposite of organization and instead hides your windows is really laughable to me. It also shows me you do not know what you are talking about and should go do some research so you can better understand.

I find Mission Control better than the old Spaces/Expose. It's useful to me now, way more organized for my personal and professional workflow. However, both are light years behind stuff I've tried before on Linux.

More people find it useful now because is has been dumbed down for the more average users to comprehend. The old Spaces/Exposé was much more powerful and more useful for professionals.

I want you to answer a question for me. Say a 3D artist is working on a scene in Autodesk Maya on OS X Lion. This artist has 6 windows open inside of Maya: the viewfinder, outliner, hypershade, render view, UV texture editor, and light linking. These windows are very difficult to be inside of when they are small, so the artist has them all as large as they can be to make maximum use of the screen real estate. So while working, this artist needs to quickly navigate between all 6 of these windows, Photoshop (for textures), finder (for texture locations), and preview (for reference images). Now comes the question. Why in the world would this artist ever want their windows hidden when the sole purpose of using such a feature is so that they can see the window to know which one to navigate to? Your answer may involve spaces. Now consider what would happen if the artist had 20 windows open and needed to be able to see certain windows next to each other at the same time, rapidly switching between various windows in every combination.

Now say this artist is back in Snow Leopard. They are now able to see every window they have open at any single point in time. Even if they have 10+ windows stretched across 6 spaces. All windows can be seen at one point in time across all spaces. Lion can only show you 1 full window of each application inside of 1 space at any given time. If you have 2 windows, the second will be cut off. If you have more than 2, all the rest will 99% hidden. And all windows except for only 1 single window will be hidden on all other spaces. Hopefully you are finally coming to realize why Spaces/Exposé is so much more powerful and than Lion. Do not forget to read the word "more" in the previous sentence

This applies to everybody who has ever needed to switch between windows quickly, not just 3D artists.

 

[Phechs]

Say a 3D artist is working on a scene in Autodesk Maya on OS X Lion. This artist has 6 windows open inside of Maya: the viewfinder, outliner, hypershade, render view, UV texture editor, and light linking. These windows are very difficult to be inside of when they are small, so the artist has them all as large as they can be to make maximum use of the screen real estate. So while working, this artist needs to quickly navigate between all 6 of these windows, Photoshop (for textures), finder (for texture locations), and preview (for reference images). Now comes the question. Why in the world would this artist ever want their windows hidden when the sole purpose of using such a feature is so that they can see the window to know which one to navigate to? Your answer may involve spaces. Now consider what would happen if the artist had 20 windows open and needed to be able to see certain windows next to each other at the same time, rapidly switching between various windows in every combination.

Now say this artist is back in Snow Leopard. They are now able to see every window they have open at any single point in time. Even if they have 10+ windows stretched across 6 spaces. All windows can be seen at one point in time across all spaces. Lion can only show you 1 full window of each application inside of 1 space at any given time. If you have 2 windows, the second will be cut off. If you have more than 2, all the rest will 99% hidden. And all windows except for only 1 single window will be hidden on all other spaces. Hopefully you are finally coming to realize why Spaces/Exposé is so much more powerful and than Lion. Do not forget to read the word "more" in the previous sentence

This applies to everybody who has ever needed to switch between windows quickly, not just 3D artists.

I cannot agree more! I have run into reflecting upon this issue multiple times. I use Lightwave/modo/Blender/Maya/Substance Designer/FilterForge & this is an issue that just confounds me, when I consider how well I can handle such a situation in 10.6.8. 10.7.2/3 has BIG issues with this. This isn't a matter of OSX "thinking differently", this is a lack of OPTIONS in a professional OS. IMO, OSX is in potential trouble if users begin to port libraries to WINE/Linux, I have ALWAYS ENJOYED THE OSX EXPERIENCE, since Mac OS v5, but this key aspect, which I'm sure is GREAT for their stockholders, is NOT good for professional users. IMO, This and the many threads on macrumors & netkas are evident of that.

 

[KnightWRX]

KnightWRX, I have a some challenges for you. First, go back and look at how many +1s (or in your case -1s) your comments have on the last 2 pages and compare them to other people's comments. Obviously, more people disagree with you than agree with you. There is your first reality check.

That's because at this point, there's only you and the other "whiners" left in this thread.

Frankly, not really something I care about. Again, this is a ressurected thread. It was made 6 months ago.

People need to learn to let go. I'll stop there, replying to you is useless, you're not changing my mind and I'm obviously not going to change yours.

[/COLOR]

That is your opinion, and only your opinion and not fact. Also, more people have the opinion opposite of you.

This is the only point I'll address, because you can't seem to let go of "professional" (neither Snow Leopard or Lion are professional, one isn't moreso than the other like you put it, that's the ridiculous notion in all your posts).

You say the statement you quoted was not fact. Where did I state it as such ? I'm pretty sure there's the word "subjectively" in there.

More people find it useful now because is has been dumbed down for the more average users to comprehend.

And you're insulting to boot. I'm now not only not a professional, I'm an average user that's too dumb to understand stuff.

(really, a 12+ years Unix guy with tons of IT experience, I'm being called a dumb average user that's not professional).

 

[strausd]

That's because at this point, there's only you and the other "whiners" left in this thread.

Yet you are whining about whiners?

Frankly, not really something I care about. Again, this is a ressurected thread. It was made 6 months ago.

People need to learn to let go. I'll stop there, replying to you is useless, you're not changing my mind and I'm obviously not going to change yours.

Really? You're going to stop there? Oh wait, here you go again...

This is the only point I'll address, because you can't seem to let go of "professional" (neither Snow Leopard or Lion are professional, one isn't moreso than the other like you put it, that's the ridiculous notion in all your posts).

Well, guess you didn't stop where you said you would, but at least this is the only point you are going to address. Uh oh, no it's not...

You say the statement you quoted was not fact. Where did I state it as such ? I'm pretty sure there's the word "subjectively" in there.

Never said it was fact, only making an observation. You really seem to be misunderstanding everything I have said.

And I sure am glad you are finally done, oh wait, you're still whining. Let's continue.

And you're insulting to boot. I'm now not only not a professional, I'm an average user that's too dumb to understand stuff.

Never said you were not a professional or that you were dumb. The only time I used the word dumb was when I was referring to a feature.

Hopefully that was the last one. Well, still wasn't. Looks like somebody doesn't know when to stop

(really, a 12+ years Unix guy with tons of IT experience, I'm being called a dumb average user that's not professional).

Again not true. And I find it funny that so mean people like to try and show off their experience like it is some sort of contest.
Also, your lack of critical reading skills cause you to misread what I am saying once again.

But FINALLY you have decided to stop talking, 5 additional points later

Maybe next time you decide to "stop there," you should actually stop

 

[Phechs]

another thread I found on MR with others looking and finding some (broken) solutions, nothing more than has been pointed out in this thread though(so far) imo
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=14168541#post14168541

don't ya just love that SAVE AS is still in xcode on iLion, hmm, wonder what "type" of user/audience they polled(or UNDERSTOOD) that wanted to skip seeing the TimeMachine animation popup everytime they make a change in their xcode project(ver$ions), probably "not so amateur users" ;-)

Also, running SL in virtualbox on linux:
http://www.webupd8.org/2010/07/run-mac-osx-in-virtualbox-under-linux.html


P.S. Please, oh please Apple, just do little things for us, reveal all windows, on all spaces/desktops, allow for system-wide versions disabling, etc... even if you're not going to bring back a grid layout spaces arrangement. (yes I've already sent them these thoughts via the osx support page)

 

[Phechs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s4dAIado0w

aside from the music in this clip, this is the new KDE desktop environment/windowSystem. I've seen a few scattered posts online, with individuals mentioning that they might be able to run this without x11 on OSX. Does anyone know more about this? If so, I could just replace finder/MissionControl with something far more fitting for my workflow.

edit:
um, this could possibly be VERY useful. Does anyone want to try their luck at this? This might just be for applications, and not the "dolphin" windowed environment
http://community.kde.org/Mac#Installing_KDE_on_Mac_OSX

 

[dyn]

KnightWRX, I have a some challenges for you. First, go back and look at how many +1s (or in your case -1s) your comments have on the last 2 pages and compare them to other people's comments. Obviously, more people disagree with you than agree with you. There is your first reality check.

ROFLMAO As if those points actually mean something... If people hate you, are bored, like to downvote, etc. they'll hit that downvote button as much as the people who disagree. One can even vote his own posts. There is absolutely no meaning to the points given via this system whatsoever for exactly those and many other reasons. Sounds like you are more in need of a reality check...

I am running a dual monitor setup plus a TV, so that makes 3.

Who cares how many monitors, tv's, etc. you are running. When using more than 1 things become crappy in any OS. Especially if they make those monitors look like 1 to the OS. Popups in the middle of the screens Lion is no exception to that. THE reason why I'm more fond of using a single monitor no matter the OS.

Once again your critical reading skills are sub par. I never said Lion was not professional, all I said is that the features in Snow Leopard are more professional.

I'd change "professional" for "usable". There are many professionals out there that are happy with any OS X version, even Lion. Depends on your own workflow, how you use the computer. As a sysadmin I value the added security functions like filevault2 and pf much more than Mission Control. Those make my workflow easier, Mission Control does not change much in my workflow.

That is your opinion, and only your opinion and not fact. Also, more people have the opinion opposite of you.

The problem is that most people in this thread are posing their problem, their workflow, their way of thinking and their way of doing things onto others. It is there sole believe that everybody uses the computer the exact same way as they do and that their way of doing things is the only possible way of using it. Guess what, it ISN'T. If you want somebody to respect your own opinion and way of doing things start by respecting the others opinion and way of doing things. Very sad to see that quite a lot of people think that they are the only one on the entire planet

Mission Control hides your windows when you have even more than two windows open in the same app. Snow Leopard doesn't.

Mission Control does not work that way. If an application has 2 or more windows it will only group them which quite a lot of people dislike and want to be able to set themselves (to which I fully agree, this is one of these things that differ from user to user and thus should be settable). Snow Leopard does not do any grouping, it simply lines up the windows on a grid.

And the fact that you consider Mission Control more organized when it is the exact opposite of organization and instead hides your windows is really laughable to me. It also shows me you do not know what you are talking about and should go do some research so you can better understand.

No it shows that YOU do not know what you are talking about. The problem is that for YOU it does not bring more organisation. That however does not mean that it doesn't bring organisation to others. Again, you are NOT the only person on the planet. If you were you weren't discussing this with yourself on a forum run by you. For some users having windows grouped by app seems to give them more organisation. The person you are now trying to flame is one of them. Again, respect somebody else's opinion and point of view. Not everybody does it the way you do it.

More people find it useful now because is has been dumbed down for the more average users to comprehend. The old Spaces/Exposé was much more powerful and more useful for professionals.

*sigh* this is getting old quickly: no, it was not more powerful and useful for professionals, it was more powerful and useful for YOU. Stop comparing the entire world with yourself!

Now consider what would happen if the artist had 20 windows open and needed to be able to see certain windows next to each other at the same time, rapidly switching between various windows in every combination.

How about looking at a workflow that consists of something else than only pressing the F3 key (or whatever it is you use to trigger Mission Control)? There are many more ways that lead to Rome and this is no different. There are many other ways of doing things like this. Some people start by cutting down on open windows that get in their way. In some cases this is enough to get a better overview of applications and windows you are using. Be creative, invent your own way of doing things instead of tightly following the OS X manual by pressing F3. It is not mandatory to do it that way.

This applies to everybody who has ever needed to switch between windows quickly, not just 3D artists.

And so does the ability of being able to actually recognise the correct window by being able to judge its contents. Which will be a lot easier if you only see a few windows. Try working through 3 windows, then try 20, which would be easier to do? Window management is more than the tools that are in OS X. As a user you are the biggest part in the equation.

I don't know about you but I manage my apps and my windows, not my OS. I change my workflow continuously to whatever works best for what I am doing at that time. It makes me rely less on my OS and thus makes me a lot more flexible. I don't run into a lot of problems whenever the OS maker decides to change things. Although this has its limits (like the multimonitor support). Anyone is free to create their own workflow. All I'm saying is that there simply is more than the tools the OS offers. Look beyond that, it might help. Also, look at other tools such as Witch, those can make things easier as well.

Btw...Xcode sucks big time. The only thing I want are the UNIX dev tools like gcc, llvm, etc. so I can use things like Macports. I don't care about the rest of it. I do not want to develop for iOS, OS X or Safari so I have absolutely no use for all those tools and the IDE itself. If Apple would offer an option for only installing the UNIX dev tools I'd be very very happy but until then Xcode is wasting my diskspace.

@Phechs: yes, it requires things like Qt (not quicktime but the Qt widget stuff KDE relies on). You can't make it the default GUI though. If you want something like that I think you need to choose between OS X or Linux/FreeBSD/PC-BSD.

 

[Phechs]

I've used multiple(2-3) displays for DAW (Protools/cubase/live/etc) / NLE video editing consoles(going back to the avid days, obviously not using FCPX today though ;-) / 3D(maya/Blender/3d coat/zbrush/modo/lightwave/etc) / & Game Development (Unreal / Unity3D) work going back over a decade now, and the same goes for nearly every PROFESSIONAL (one who makes a living in these fields with their digital toolset, see tools list above) I work with in each of those fields, around 90% of them use at LEAST 2 displays, 2-3 LARGE cinema displays is the norm in ALL of the studio pipelines I've worked in. There is a reason, that isnt market share based, that companies like the Foundry have made it clear that until Apple begins to support features the PROFESSIONAL MARKET calls for, like a version of openGL that isnt YEARS OUT OF DATE(to name just 1 issue), that us PROFESSIONALS wont be getting tools like Mari.

Though, speaking of Linux, Mari is on Linux, and I can run photoshop in WINE at native speeds just fine there, not quite as good on the DAW side of things, same goes for many other creative/code apps I need in my day to day, so there are still a few that keep be away from Linux. But as companies begin to drop OSX (mari DID work on OSX, until apple refused to better their OpenGL support) support for some of the most powerful apps will fore some of us professionals to the platform that allow us the freedom and the toolsets to get the job done. I've used apple desktops for decades, and enjoyed nearly every minute of it(aside from OSX beta1 release, ouch ;-), but I(NOT YOU, we all know that) now, on certain pipelines, when Mari & other tools that require an even semi-modern OpenGL support(which Lion STILL doesnt have to a great degree compared to windows or linux), are called for, must begin to spend more and more time in one of 2 desktop environments that aren't OSX(my favorite Desktop environment), and if iMissionControl gets any more "mission controlley" in 10.8, that decision to go where the PROFESSIONAL APPS are, will become more and more the environment I must choose. For any user not hindered by iMissionControl, thats great news for you, seriously, dont waste your time in this thread, you've found an operating system that doesnt hinder your workflow, wish I could say the same. For me, and others on the large number of threads for 3D/DAW/DTP/NLE professionals that I have seen decrying the functionality that was taken from them in Lion, calling in numbers for the return of SL spaces & expose functionality to return, we'll have to strongly consider broadening our horizons if the tide continues in this direction. Windows had Vista, imo, OSX has Lion, I'm hoping for a 10.8 renaissance that appeases the users with the ability to control a bit moreso how their OS interacts with them .

P.S. have you seen how many 1 and 2 star ratings lion even has on the appstore, not as bad as the ratings for FCPX, but imo a sign of user sentiments. A company that refuses to listen to users can produce a vista on occassion, or a FCPX ;-)

 

[strausd]

ROFLMAO As if those points actually mean something... If people hate you, are bored, like to downvote, etc. they'll hit that downvote button as much as the people who disagree. One can even vote his own posts. There is absolutely no meaning to the points given via this system whatsoever for exactly those and many other reasons. Sounds like you are more in need of a reality check...

Or maybe if people disagree with what they are saying? You conveniently left that out

Maybe you should take a reality check and look at your own.

Who cares how many monitors, tv's, etc. you are running. When using more than 1 things become crappy in any OS. Especially if they make those monitors look like 1 to the OS. Popups in the middle of the screens Lion is no exception to that. THE reason why I'm more fond of using a single monitor no matter the OS.

I mentioned it because I was responding to someone who brought it up.

I have a great idea, learn to read.

I'd change "professional" for "usable". There are many professionals out there that are happy with any OS X version, even Lion. Depends on your own workflow, how you use the computer. As a sysadmin I value the added security functions like filevault2 and pf much more than Mission Control. Those make my workflow easier, Mission Control does not change much in my workflow.

You say "happy with" as if something is good enough. And I agree, many people will use Lion over Windows 7 because Lion is good enough in comparison. But you are thinking too narrow minded here. Just because something is "good enough" doesn't make it 100% desired. I will use Lion over Windows 7 any day, that does not mean I would use Lion over Snow Leopard. It is a matter of preference.

The problem is that most people in this thread are posing their problem, their workflow, their way of thinking and their way of doing things onto others. It is there sole believe that everybody uses the computer the exact same way as they do and that their way of doing things is the only possible way of using it. Guess what, it ISN'T. If you want somebody to respect your own opinion and way of doing things start by respecting the others opinion and way of doing things. Very sad to see that quite a lot of people think that they are the only one on the entire planet

Once again, you really need to learn to read. We have been saying from the beginning how we would have liked an option to bring back the old Spaces/Exposé.

I personally believe that MC is great for people who couldn't understand the complex Spaces/Exposé combo. That is why they should options for both.

Mission Control does not work that way. If an application has 2 or more windows it will only group them which quite a lot of people dislike and want to be able to set themselves (to which I fully agree, this is one of these things that differ from user to user and thus should be settable). Snow Leopard does not do any grouping, it simply lines up the windows on a grid.

Haha maybe you should go try it. That is exactly what happens. Mission Control hides your windows when you have even more than two windows open in the same app. Snow Leopard doesn't. There is not a single point where you can see 100% of both windows if they are of the same application.

No it shows that YOU do not know what you are talking about. The problem is that for YOU it does not bring more organisation. That however does not mean that it doesn't bring organisation to others. Again, you are NOT the only person on the planet. If you were you weren't discussing this with yourself on a forum run by you. For some users having windows grouped by app seems to give them more organisation. The person you are now trying to flame is one of them. Again, respect somebody else's opinion and point of view. Not everybody does it the way you do it.

"And the fact that you consider Mission Control more organized when it is the exact opposite of organization and instead hides your windows is really laughable to me. It also shows me you do not know what you are talking about and should go do some research so you can better understand."

I stick with the above statement. And that you should learn to read. Who knows, it might help

*sigh* this is getting old quickly: no, it was not more powerful and useful for professionals, it was more powerful and useful for YOU. Stop comparing the entire world with yourself!

I would argue that showing all your windows at once is more powerful than starting to hide them if even 2 windows are open of the same application. Again, sticking to my statement.

How about looking at a workflow that consists of something else than only pressing the F3 key (or whatever it is you use to trigger Mission Control)? There are many more ways that lead to Rome and this is no different. There are many other ways of doing things like this. Some people start by cutting down on open windows that get in their way. In some cases this is enough to get a better overview of applications and windows you are using. Be creative, invent your own way of doing things instead of tightly following the OS X manual by pressing F3. It is not mandatory to do it that way.

I have never used F3 for MC, always hot corners because it is faster. And sure, you could cut down windows. Buy my example was trying to show that sometimes you need to quickly change between multiple windows. Closing them only to reopen them would be counterproductive. Even you should know that

I would suggest reading over my example again, I think you had trouble understanding what I was saying.

And so does the ability of being able to actually recognise the correct window by being able to judge its contents. Which will be a lot easier if you only see a few windows. Try working through 3 windows, then try 20, which would be easier to do? Window management is more than the tools that are in OS X. As a user you are the biggest part in the equation.

Some people have more complex workflows than only 3 windows open at any given time. Don't be so closed minded to think that your workflow is the only one that people should adhere to.

I don't know about you but I manage my apps and my windows, not my OS. I change my workflow continuously to whatever works best for what I am doing at that time. It makes me rely less on my OS and thus makes me a lot more flexible. I don't run into a lot of problems whenever the OS maker decides to change things. Although this has its limits (like the multimonitor support). Anyone is free to create their own workflow. All I'm saying is that there simply is more than the tools the OS offers. Look beyond that, it might help. Also, look at other tools such as Witch, those can make things easier as well.

You are limited in creating your own workflow with Lion, that is my whole point, but you keep missing it big time.

 

[Phechs]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1287256/

https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=14215405#post14215405

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1192975/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1100152/

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3201688?start=15&tstart=0

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1189183/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1301711/

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/14040005/

some timesinks for those wanting to spend their time defending the loss of functionality in Lion
I have about another 50 links, but just wanted to copy some recent ones here

There's a reason a macpro supports more than 20 gigs of ram, and a large number PROFESSIONAL users I've worked with use that much or more(and fancy RaidArrays, CUDA, TDM, and such ;-), in their pro apps, with their many windows and spaces, many.... but then again, what am I saying, I guess I forgot how long its been sine we've had a macpro update/upgrade, ah yeah, that consumer demographic, pretty darn important, when compared to the pro, the PRO, the MacPRO market, was it a macPro they called it, oh yeah MAC "PRO", I'm talking desktops, NOT laptops here!

 

[dyn]

...and the same goes for nearly every PROFESSIONAL (one who makes a living in these fields with their digital toolset, see tools list above)

Speak for yourself, don't speak for others. There are many professions out there. For quite a lot a Mac isn't even the correct tool to be using, for others it is. In the end it is entirely up to the user how he/she uses the machine. The only thing the software manufacturers and sysadmins can do is provide some basics to them. So again, you are complaining about something breaking YOUR workflow and NOT something about breaking every professionals workflow. A not so subtle nuance to the story but a very very big difference.

Though, speaking of Linux, Mari is on Linux, and I can run photoshop in WINE at native speeds just fine there, not quite as good on the DAW side of things, same goes for many other creative/code apps I need in my day to day, so there are still a few that keep be away from Linux.

To give you an example of what I mean by the above, it is exactly this. If you were in the networking department you wouldn't need those tools for your profession. Network people need completely different tools and Linux is one of them. Most of them will be living on the command line and not even see a graphical tool. Things like Expose and Mission Control are absolutely of no importance to them as they don't use them. Because of the amount of cli work they are doing their workflow is completely different than the workflow of a photographer or animation artist.

P.S. have you seen how many 1 and 2 star ratings lion even has on the appstore, not as bad as the ratings for FCPX, but imo a sign of user sentiments. A company that refuses to listen to users can produce a vista on occassion, or a FCPX ;-)

Have you also read those 1 and 2 star ratings? Exactly, they mostly say "lion sucks" making them to no use at all. Ratings are useless, it is the content of the reviews that will tell you what is good about it and what is horrible. Most reviews I see in any of the stores are to no use at all because of the complete lack of meaningful content. I'd rather have them do something like dealextreme does: you have to write at least 500 words. It does not get rid of the problem but it makes it smaller.

Or maybe if people disagree with what they are saying? You conveniently left that out

You already pointed out the agree/disagree part and my only intent was to point out the other possibilities you conveniently left out So you may thank me for actually making your incomplete story complete. No problem.

I mentioned it because I was responding to someone who brought it up.

I have a great idea, learn to read.

I mentioned it because I was responding to you. I have an even better idea: practise what you preach aka learn to read

You say "happy with" as if something is good enough. And I agree, many people will use Lion over Windows 7 because Lion is good enough in comparison. But you are thinking too narrow minded here. Just because something is "good enough" doesn't make it 100% desired. I will use Lion over Windows 7 any day, that does not mean I would use Lion over Snow Leopard. It is a matter of preference.

That's only one of the many reasons why they'll choose any OS X version though. Again, the problem is YOU and not me. I'm not the narrow minded one but YOU are. Unlike you I actually see that some people like how it is done and do not want it changed, some people who do not care because they don't use it and people who want it changed because it breaks their workflow. The only thing you see is the latter and that's only because you are part of that group. FYI: I'm also a small part of that group because I don't really like the app grouping simply because I don't have that many windows opened in 1 app, usually 2 max.

Once again, you really need to learn to read. We have been saying from the beginning how we would have liked an option to bring back the old Spaces/Exposé.

Once again you need to learn to read and practise what you preach. I've been saying this from the beginning of this thread and I'm only repeating it.

I personally believe that MC is great for people who couldn't understand the complex Spaces/Exposé combo. That is why they should options for both.

Which is simply repeating what I was saying so I suppose we do agree on that part.

Haha maybe you should go try it. That is exactly what happens. Mission Control hides your windows when you have even more than two windows open in the same app. Snow Leopard doesn't. There is not a single point where you can see 100% of both windows if they are of the same application.

Duh, what do you think makes me conclude that? The problem with MC and the criticism is that most people do not try and look closely at what is happening. They are shouting things like MC not displaying all windows (try opening 150 apps and using a resolution of 1680x1050 on any OS X version supporting Expose and count the windows you have and then be amazed about not being able to count 100 of them...). The app grouping kinda works, it would have been much better if the distances between the windows was much bigger. Using the space bar to zoom in on the windows is also something that is not known by many. However, one should question if you'd need things like that. Like I said (and I keep repeating myself), it depends on ones workflow. For some it will work, for some it won't. The only solution is a checkbox for the grouping.

I stick with the above statement. And that you should learn to read. Who knows, it might help

Then I'll stick with both my quote and the above made statements: try to understand how it works, practice what you preach and learn to read. Unlike you I have no intention of thinking it might help.

I would argue that showing all your windows at once is more powerful than starting to hide them if even 2 windows are open of the same application. Again, sticking to my statement.

As I said and repeat yet again: it is to YOU but does not apply to EVERYBODY. There are many people that love how it is done in Lion and every poll about this shows that. You can't keep denying that. Consider them idiots, consider them n00bs or whatever you want but the fact remains that there are people out there who like it. Some of them are professionals, some are not, you can't say that up front without doing proper research.

I would suggest reading over my example again, I think you had trouble understanding what I was saying.

I've had no trouble understanding you. You have trouble understanding what I'm saying although I think it has more to do with not wanting to understand. Read what I said again but this time more carefully. You are talking about a very specific way of doing things and the only thing I'm doing throughout my entire reply and this reply is pointing out that it is only YOUR workflow. Somebody else has a completely different workflow. As you pointed out there are others ways than just hitting the F3 key. That should have been a very very big hint but you failed to pick that up. As I said earlier: there are more ways that lead to Rome.

Some people have more complex workflows than only 3 windows open at any given time. Don't be so closed minded to think that your workflow is the only one that people should adhere to.

Don't be so close minded to think that everybody else has the same kind of workflow and does things the exact same way as you do it. Some people have even more complex workflows, some have less. Everybody handles that differently. As you've pointed out yourself already: you use hotcorners and not the F3 key others use. Yet again you failed to understand that there are more ways that lead to Rome. In other words: don't blame others for something that YOU are doing because what you did here with that last sentence is actually summarise my previous and this reply Or, to repeat myself once more but this time with your own words: "Don't be so closed minded to think that your workflow is the only one that people should adhere to.". And try to read because you've now successfully dug your own hole with that

You are limited in creating your own workflow with Lion, that is my whole point, but you keep missing it big time.

Since you refuse to read you are missing the whole point big time. EVERY OS is limiting you in creating your own workflow because they are build for the majority. There is no exception to that rule whatsoever. What works for you may not work for somebody else. If you've actually read my reply you'd have known that I agree that in some use cases Lion's MC becomes a problem but not in all of them. So I'm definitely not missing the point there The other point and the one you miss completely is the one that you don't always have to do what the OS wants or what the OS builder dictates. There are other ways of managing things, if you are creative (I suppose you are definitely not creative).

@phechs: well a lot of professionals I've worked with also required much less memory. People who write reports do not need a Mac Pro with 20+ GB of memory, firefighters do not need that, police officers and many others do not either. CAD professionals, medical imaging people, photographers, data analysts, etc. are a different breed of professionals that do require powerful systems like a Mac Pro with 20+ GB of memory. Don't be narrow minded about professions, there are way to many of them. The professional part is more in how you act than in what you do and what you use.

 

[Simplicated]

Duh, what do you think makes me conclude that? The problem with MC and the criticism is that most people do not try and look closely at what is happening. They are shouting things like MC not displaying all windows (try opening 150 apps and using a resolution of 1680x1050 on any OS X version supporting Expose and count the windows you have and then be amazed about not being able to count 100 of them...). The app grouping kinda works, it would have been much better if the distances between the windows was much bigger. Using the space bar to zoom in on the windows is also something that is not known by many. However, one should question if you'd need things like that. Like I said (and I keep repeating myself), it depends on ones workflow.

I think I have said this in another thread, do you really open 150 apps or windows in a real world situation, especially when coupled with the original Spaces?

For some it will work, for some it won't. The only solution is a checkbox for the grouping.

This I agree. Too bad Apple is too conceited to give people choices.

 

[klaxamazoo]

I routinely have between 40 and 60 windows open at a time when writing a paper and analyzing data. Pre-10.7, OSX handled this many windows rather elegantly.

I still have yet to see someone explain why NOT being able to see all your windows in a Space fully revealed is great. Nor why NOT being able to see all your windows across all your spaces at the same time is great too. Also, how does having App Expose pull you out of MC making it so that you can't drag windows between Spaces better exactly?

I fail to see why finding my content should be a game of hide-and-seek or peek-a-boo, testing stacks of applications, pressing the space bar, selecting another window, being pulled out of MC using App Expose, etc.


Yes, there are people that find MC just fine. Good for those people, I am happy for them. But please remember that the purpose of this thread is to discuss and find a replacement to MC in 10.7 for those of us who find it lacking.

Some of us HATE Mission Control and are looking for a replacement. It is that simple.

 

[Krazy Bill]

Some of us HATE Mission Control and are looking for a replacement. It is that simple.

Agree on all points.

But unless Apple writes a "replacement" themselves, I don't think it will happen because of the new Sandboxing rules on the horizon for developers. (Apple wants all apps to "mind their own business").

Edit: That's why at least once a week I submit this request to Apple.

 

[dyn]

I think I have said this in another thread, do you really open 150 apps or windows in a real world situation, especially when coupled with the original Spaces?

That's what you critics seem to be doing since you guys are posting images of people opening 150 apps that only show about 90 windows and shouting things like something a professional would do (see the use case somebody on this page is giving me). I myself find no use for more like 5 windows at a time on my display and I'm using a 15" and a 30" one. For me that little amount of screens makes the app grouping of MC rather silly and it annoys me. I'm not using MC a lot because I'm more of a keyboard type of guy making me stick to cmd-tab and cmd-`. I might have more than 5 apps opened though, I simply manage my windows differently, I don't rely too much on the OS X features for this. Something I can do because these features are not mandatory, they are merely an option.

This I agree. Too bad Apple is too conceited to give people choices.

You have sent in your feedback to Apple via their support pages? Because complaining about it here will not make Apple move their butt to start giving us a choice of grouping per app or not, giving them feedback is more likely to do that (many thanks to Krazy bill for submitting it every week, now that's dedication!). I have and I urge everybody else finding the app grouping to be a problem to do the same. The only way to get it on their meeting list.

@klaxamazoo: the problem is that most will only complain instead of wanting to find a solution to the problem or discuss it maturely. I strongly object to that attitude, I have no problem about discussing the problem though. However, certain people seem to have this attitude of "you are either with us or against us" which is absolutely wrong. That is unbelievably narrow minded and they refuse to accept the fact that other people have little or no difficulty of how things work in Lion. They only see their own use case, nothing else. That kind of attitude simply makes discussing anything with those people impossible. They are not open for any other vision than their own. I simply am more nuanced because I can see why things are the way they are, that it solves some of the problems but that it also causes new ones. Not everybody loves it but do keep in mind that some of the people out there do love it which poll after poll will show. Therefore you can't keep arguing things like "professionals need it".

 

[Phechs]

@dyn

didn't I make it clear the professions I was talking about? I never mentioned ANY of those that you did, but then that pattern has been clear to everyone voting down your posts. We're here for solutions, not to hear defenses for Apple's UI choices(there are likely iLion fan threads), we want to find/share SOLUTIONS. Thats why we're talking about ChangeSpace, and DockView, and Witch, and KDE Desktop, etc, etc..... SOLUTIONS, helping each other. Our workflows have been harmed by iLion, but we are searching and sharing solutions! Please contribute, or continue defending iLion and Apple's choices for you, without helping or sharing, doesn't matter, its a bit entertaining.

I'm speaking of (a specific type of)PRO USERS that need technologies like CUDA/OpenCL/OpenGL 4/TDM/etc on a DAILY BASIS. If you aren't VERY familiar with professionals who use these technologies on a daily basis, its understandable, we're a minority compared to the iOS/iLion crowd(a small $$$ marketshare for apple). What I'm referencing, well, thats already clear to anyone that uses these technologies regularly for production purposes. I'm not, nor have I been talking about ANY of the professions you listed, nor sys admins either, I still know sys admins that use a terminal, and no GUI, THATS NOT WHAT I'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT.

EVERY Avid/FCP/Fusion/FoundryCoUK user I work with, EVERY Maya/Softimage/3dsmax/Blender/Octane/Luxrender/Lightwave user, EVERY Game Developer/artist, EVERY DAW professional I work with uses these technologies, on a daily basis, they nearly ALL use 2-3 displays(oh the multi-display fullscreen joy ;-) in iLion) and ALL of these technologies constantly, and are having with each passing year, to move to other operating systems, like the GUI FRIENDLY KDE/UNITY/etc, and Windows 7 even, because apple is going so far, as they have with lion, this is documented, as to strip the underlying api's, or intentionally not revealing them any longer, still leaving them open to hackers of course, but not for diligent developers choosing to create solutions to FIX the hinderances in their iLion OSX workflow, which is fine for them, in keeping with enforcing a single style of UI/GUI for all OSX users. IMO, this is an issue for any creative professional(or whomever) that sees an operating system stripping even the API calls to allow for them(much less just providing a preferences checkbox) to configure their toolset, their operating system. I'm hoping for Apple to reverse the trend, I want to continue to use the macOS(as I have for many years before OSX's release), but am actively setting up windows and linux Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Fedora/Mint systems that already run photoshop, and a host of apps faster than my same CPU under OSX, to prepare for what may come in 10.8. In Unity/KDE I can easily tweak and change nearly ANY aspect of the GUI/UI experience(completely replicating spaces/expose, and even building upon it. many tweaks of which are in their own installed "software center" apps(installed by default in each os). Unity/Ubuntu ships with expose/spaces functionality by default. Those OS's keep getting more and more compelling because of such hinderances to some users workflows(like me and some others in this thread). I/WE are here to share solutions that can use in Lion to fix such "issues" as we see them, allowing our workflows to not be slowed/hindered but arbitrary iChoices in iLion and, potentially, the next OSX.

iLion may become the best operating system for those that prefer it/can stand it/love it, but when the best we get, after the loss of expose/spaces functionality(as we see it! not you), and as its starting to be found that Apple seems to be stripping/hiding the Api's and functionality we needed/relied upon to fix such issues(bye bye HyperSpaces), is a 3 year old version of OpenGL(that in 3.2 only works on certain cards in OSX, when it works 100% on the same card in Linux & Windows), a semi functional OpenCL v1.1(a year later than most other OS's had it), and luckily good CUDA thanks to NVIDIA(not apple), and a number of broken TDM plugins due to Lions change in API and rosetta support, there begins to be a choice that, unless we find SOLUTIONS(see above, how we're in here to find SOLUTIONS so we can stay on OSX if possible), pragmatic choices must be made to consider the future of our workflows/production-pipelines.

I think by now we're all VERY clear that Lion works for you, thats very good for you. For us, in this thread, for the most part, that is not the case. And that is why we are trying to HELP each other find solutions, so we can extend the potential of Lion to accomodate the types of workflow we have; the types of workflows that millions of other users have in other operating systems (thanks to Leopard/SL inspiring/challenging them to do so). Thanks to everyone in this thread that is helping to find new apps/solutions to what we consider issues that hinder our productivity in OSX lion.

edit: again, theres a reason Adobe/The Foundry/Digidesign/Mathworks/Blender Foundation/Autodesk/Avid/etc..... supports 64-bit, and yes, 20+ gigs of ram is needed on a daily basis by many creative professionals. Ever try opening a 2+gig LDF file in photoshop with less than 15 gigs free? Ever try loading in 256 tracks of 24/94 audio in a DAW, ever try working with native RED res video in an NLE, ever try loading 1000 2k/4k textures into a 3d/GameDev environment, ever hit the mem limit in matlab with less than 10+ gigs free, reasons, reasons we're here to help eachother find solutions that will allow us to continue using OSX if possible.

edit2: also, as many of us have stated, we've sent in feedback to apple, some of us many times. Help and solutions are requested in this thread, we'd all appreciate them, thus the title of the thread.

edit3: imo, at this point, theres little need to discuss a problem that has been explicitly detailed in this and many other threads, many times over; the "problems" have been excruciatingly identified. we're searching for, and sharing with each other, the solutions we find, hence, again, title of the thread.

 

[JordanNZ]

@dyn

and as its starting to be found that Apple seems to be stripping/hiding the Api's and functionality we needed/relied upon to fix such issues(bye bye HyperSpaces), is a 3 year old version of OpenGL(that in 3.2 only works on certain cards in OSX, when it works 100% on the same card in Linux & Windows),

edit: again, theres a reason Adobe/The Foundry/Digidesign/Mathworks/Blender Foundation/Autodesk/Avid/etc..... supports 64-bit, and yes, 20+ gigs of ram is needed on a daily basis by many creative professionals. Ever try opening a 2+gig LDF file in photoshop with less than 15 gigs free? Ever try loading in 256 tracks of 24/94 audio in a DAW,

First.. Which cards?! Name them.

And protools is NOT 64 bit. Apple's Logic Pro is though.....

 

[strausd]

blah blah blah, crap crap crap, I don't know anything.

Let me make it simple enough for even you to understand. Look at all the negative feedback you are getting, obviously more people on here disagree with you than agree with you, shocker I know.

Next, look at the links talking about how Lion removed advanced functionality. Again, more people disagreeing with you than agreeing.

Then stop making all these hypocritical accusations where you say that we are only considering our workflows and that we should be more like you and remember that not everyone is like that. Well you know what? Maybe you should practice what you preach and remember that all you are saying is your own personal opinion that nobody on here agrees with or even cares about.

No offense, but you opinion doesn't mean crap to me, its just empty words. Not to mention Lion slows so many people down, so why in the world would we ever listen to you?

All you are doing is whining about whiners. But at least we are all discussing how to make it better and trying to keep people up to date if something new comes out that brings advanced functionality back to OS X. We are contributing to the original topic of the thread, you are not.

Finally, learn to read.

I still have yet to see someone explain why NOT being able to see all your windows in a Space fully revealed is great. Nor why NOT being able to see all your windows across all your spaces at the same time is great too.

A-freaking-men.

Go ahead dyn, try and respond to that. I would love to see you try.

 

[Phechs]

First.. Which cards?! Name them.

And protools is NOT 64 bit. Apple's Logic Pro is though.....

First.. Which cards?! Name them.

And protools is NOT 64 bit. Apple's Logic Pro is though.....

#1: If you're referring to CORE extenstions, then yes, Lion is great at OpenGL3.2 CORE support, if we're talking about core extensions. Lion has great support for the OpenGL 3.2 Core Profile, but, akaik, not 3.2 Compatibility Profile. I could have made myself clearer with a longer post. I do appreciate apple's work there, better late than never, bring on 3.3!
IMO, the other side of the equation is that many(if not all) cards on the market that supports, and has supported OGL 3.3-4.2 for a long time now, usually only get around an average of around 25% support for OpenGL 3.3(and greater) extensions(if that) on Lion. It is finally getting better though, I'm happy about that, still a long way behind win/linux though, at this pace, years behind. We might get 3.3 by 10.9, maybe 4.0 by 11.0-11.2. Sooner would be great though, of course.

#2: you're correct regarding Pro tools, many users have called for 64bit for years, perhaps I should have said Logic PRO, or Cubase. IMO, they're both 64bit beasts for high-res multitrack work, and studios that need to load massive 24/96 sample-based instruments(without the need to rewire or otherwise get the audio into the app).

I could have put more time into my post, I just wanted to get the semi-lengthy gist in there, that a number of us are here to help eachother find apps/tools that can provide what we consider missing functionality in lion, so we can move-to/stay-with Lion.

 

[Simplicated]

You have sent in your feedback to Apple via their support pages? Because complaining about it here will not make Apple move their butt to start giving us a choice of grouping per app or not, giving them feedback is more likely to do that (many thanks to Krazy bill for submitting it every week, now that's dedication!). I have and I urge everybody else finding the app grouping to be a problem to do the same. The only way to get it on their meeting list.

I have complained about it over 10 times via the feedback page and the developer bug reporter site since Lion DP4. It's clear that Apple thinks this is a ingenious idea.

 

[Phechs]

looks like there has been a solution found for getting SL onto new macpros/MBP/iMac's

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3264421?start=0&tstart=0
aside from the isses with the expose display differences with Leopard to SL, I've never seen so many threads about regressing to the previous OSX version; I found another 5-10 new threads on MR recently too about just this subject. It seems like more and more people are reporting back that they've submitted feedback or bug reports on the lost functionality.... I wonder what 10.8 will bring us.

edit, looks like the iOS-ification is spreading, if 10.8 heads even moresoe in this direction, and no 3rd parth solution is released(which is tough because the api's keep getting cut out!!!), its kde/win8/gnome time :-(
http://www.tuaw.com/2012/01/31/in-pictures-airport-utility-6-0s-missing-features/
http://www.tuaw.com/2012/01/30/airport-utility-6-0-for-os-x-lion-retools-interface-to-match-ios/

at least you can run OSX in a virtualbox/vmware install on Linux, in seamless mode, so it still feels like you're on osx, but with the added functionality it seems might keep getting stripped out, if this trend continues. Tablet/Laptop os's are great for what they do, but IMO a desktop environment can begin to be hindered by stripping out more and more of the api calls that developers rely on to replace/add functionality being stripped from what IMO should be an OS that is NOT designed to run on a tablet(or even a laptop in some cases). Fingers crossed though, I've seen around 50+ anti-iMissioncontrol threads on various sites, including apple's.... maybe, just maybe, without taking away any of the functionality that MissionControl users like, Apple might consider adding in an advanced panel for ALL WINDOWS(INALL APPS) EXPOSE, and grid-based(spatial memory based) desktops placement, and some way to prevent pre-created full screen apps from randomly reordering themselves upon restart... same old stuff, just wanted to chime in again for no reason.

P.S. I've found an interesting workaround, if I run linux in parallels (preferably kde/gnome/xfce) and switch it to display on all desktops, then pin the taskbar for that linux install into the top of one of my displays(not the main one), I can then access the individual desktop switcher of that vm and its all windows expose functionality, running in seamless mode, and using the same lion desktop, have access to however many virtual desktops I'm running in linux at the same time. This has been great for web browsing, and a few other activities so far. If you want to get really crafty, this is VERY cool, I've read that you can tunnel into your Lion install, and run in realtime your OSX apps, in a window, in your VM, using the console in your linux VM to call that app's windows into itself, thus having full expose functionality of your VM with an OSX app or apps... it sounds tricky, but I'm going to keep it in mind. This method begins to allow for you to have a "floating" set of virtual desktops that overly (and hide if needed) on top of your iLion desktop. I'm still experimenting with it, but so far, its damn handy! and more advanced than my previous workflow in some ways. With my 11 button mouse, or using "xgestures", I can send desktop switch commands to the VM, regardless what desktop I'm on, and using symlinks, you can be sharing/using the same data/browser history/etc on your VM as you do in osx.

If anyone decides to try this out, I'd suggest going with a VERY lightweight linux desktop environment, like xfce, imo "xubuntu" is a good starting point for this. Its VERY light on the cpu/gpu, and offers you a desktop pager/switcher, and a FEW of the awesome features of a more intensive windowSystem like the almighty GNOME(my fav atm), and the equally cool KDE. For gnome or kde, I'd suggest going with kubuntu or fedora, or something along those lines. Having multiple virtual desktops, with their own expose, on top of my osx desktops is actually pretty powerful


edit2: and for some mindbending options, consider running iLion, but also running an install of snowleopard in seamless mode(using virtualbox or vmware, that both do SL installs), even porting your previously working 10.6.8 os drive to a virtual drive for this purpose. Anyhow, you'd have expose/spaces and missioncontrol in the same desktop environment, as long as you run in SEAMLESS MODE/COHERENCE/ETC, wild stuff.

here's a link that details this process with vmware
http://blog.iharder.net/2011/07/25/...rtual-machine-to-retain-powerpc-applications/

edit 3: looks like there has been movement on ChangeSpace, there are new release notes here: https://github.com/sdsykes/Change-S...e4b3a8502a8d9943e8f224397e/release_notes.html

the new version, 2.2.1 download link is here, https://github.com/sdsykes/Change-Space/downloads