MLB 2011-2012 Hotstove

[quagmire]

What are his career stats?
I would argue 2008 was his best season.

He is pretty close to Rivera through his first six seasons. Career ERA of 2.35( Mo has 2.21), 219 saves( Mo had 215 through his first six years, not including 1995), and a postseason ERA of 1.00( only due to his bad outing in 2009 postseason).

Do I think Paps can sustain dominance? I don't know. He relies on his fastball and as he ages, he will lose that velocity and his secondary stuff isn't anything to write home about. It is going to be interesting to see how he reinvents himself as he ages.

 

[zioxide]

What are his career stats?
I would argue 2008 was his best season.

Maybe, or 2007 when he won the WS, but 2011 was a hell of a lot better than 2010.

From what I've heard he didn't even talk to Boston. That really shows something about the character in that clubhouse.. and that something is NOT GOOD.

If I was the GM I'd probably blow it up now, rebuild, and try to come back with a brand new & young team in 2013. Build around Gonzo, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester, Buchholz, and Bard and get rid of everyone else.

 

[MacNut]

Papelbon only has a fast ball that he really only has for 5 batters at best. You can't rely on him to go much past one inning before he becomes hittable. Unless he can come up with another pitch that won't tax his arm so much I don't see him being durable later into his career.

 

[Queen of Spades]

probably. the whole organization is ****ed. never before have i felt this way about a team

I think you're being a little dramatic. The way the season ended was embarrassing, and I'm disappointed in the way the players purported themselves, but I don't think this year is any worse than 2001, or some of those embarrassing mid-90s teams. We still have some good guys on this team, and we'll rebound. Things are always blown way out of proportion in Boston.

The Red Sox were not going to give him a big contract. Not after the way his pitching has declined. Anything over 20 for 2 years is way to much. He is not a great closer and he is already showing signs of injury.

I would argue that he was/is a great closer, actually. 2011 was one of his better seasons, outsiders just remember him blowing the final game in spectacular fashion. That said, I think 4/$50 is too much money. He's primarily a fastball pitcher.

From what I've heard he didn't even talk to Boston. That really shows something about the character in that clubhouse.. and that something is NOT GOOD.

His agent and Cherington had a preliminary discussion, but the sides were so far apart on years and AV that it was patently obvious they weren't going to reach a deal. We've sort of know Papelbon was going to seek a maximum contract, as is his right, but the Red Sox valued him a bit differently.

Do you honestly think if the money was right, he wouldn't have come back because of the clubhouse? Of course not. It's a clear case of going for the max contract. Cherington basically said as much.

I think we'll miss him, for sure, but I also think the bullpen is one of the few places you can get value. He's not Mariano Rivera.

 

[MacNut]

To say Papelbon didn't fit the Red Sox clubhouse is absurd, he was maybe the most obnoxious of the bunch. Not sure how he will fit in with the Phillies, will he have to tone down his schick.

 

[quagmire]

Yeah, the Red Sox didn't want to give him that 4th year. I doubt it was the yearly salary that the Red Sox took issue with. The deal he accepted with the Phillies was only a $500,000 pay raise per season( from $12 million to 12.5 million).

The thing with Papelbon that I take issue with( this goes for Pujols too) is that he wanted to become the highest paid reliever in the game. I don't want a player on my team specifically wants to be the highest paid player in baseball. I know I have A-Rod on the Yankees, but he sort of redeemed himself when he opted out in 2007, he took less money than what his agent originally demanded and contacted the Yankees himself taking Boras out of the equation.

 

[Queen of Spades]

Yeah, the Red Sox didn't want to give him that 4th year. I doubt it was the yearly salary that the Red Sox took issue with. The deal he accepted with the Phillies was only a $500,000 pay raise per season( from $12 million to 12.5 million).

The thing with Papelbon that I take issue with( this goes for Pujols too) is that he wanted to become the highest paid reliever in the game. I don't want a player on my team specifically wants to be the highest paid player in baseball. I know I have A-Rod on the Yankees, but he sort of redeemed himself when he opted out in 2007, he took less money than what his agent originally demanded and contacted the Yankees himself taking Boras out of the equation.

Uhm yeah, I'm going to go ahead and say that the stunt he pulled on the Rangers pretty much makes it impossible to redeem himself - especially when that "redemption" is signing a contract that pays him an AAV of $25.75 million until 2017 with the richie rich Yankees. That $275 million contract actually broke the record as the richest baseball contract ever - the previous record was also his, the $252 with the Rangers. It's not like he decided to go play for the Twins or the Athletics.

He basically signed an absurd, monopoly money contract, and then got mad because the team that gave it to him was in last place. Apparently the fact that the Rangers sucked at the time didn't matter at all when they were offering him jillions, but once the ink was dry and he was paid, it mattered. Not to mention sucking up 25% of the entire payroll makes it hard to spend for a winner.

That said, it's really stupid to actually announce you want to be the highest paid X. Papelbon is a talented pitcher, but he says really dumb things. And Pujols cemented his d-bag status by asking for so much money to license his signature on a team signed Cardinals World Series baseball, that they couldn't make one. At some point, you have enough money.

I'm sorry, but if you're bothered by greed (and douchery), don't be a blind homer, A-Rod is king.

 

[MacNut]

I'm sorry, but if you're bothered by greed (and douchery), don't be a blind homer, A-Rod is king.

LeBron James might have a thing to say about that.

 

[Queen of Spades]

LeBron James might have a thing to say about that.

For LeBron James to be in the same circle as A-Rod, he'd have had to sign a max, record-breaking contract with the Clippers, then start loafing and whining when he remembered the Clippers suck. Then he'd have to beg his way out of Los Angeles to the Knicks, wherein he would re-negotiate an even larger record breaking contract, while continuing to screw the Clippers' payroll for a few more years.

LeBron James is a douche for a totally different reason.

 

[quagmire]

Uhm yeah, I'm going to go ahead and say that the stunt he pulled on the Rangers pretty much makes it impossible to redeem himself - especially when that "redemption" is signing a contract that pays him an AAV of $25.75 million until 2017 with the richie rich Yankees. That $275 million contract actually broke the record as the richest baseball contract ever - the previous record was also his, the $252 with the Rangers. It's not like he decided to go play for the Twins or the Athletics.

He basically signed an absurd, monopoly money contract, and then got mad because the team that gave it to him was in last place. Apparently the fact that the Rangers sucked at the time didn't matter at all when they were offering him jillions, but once the ink was dry and he was paid, it mattered. Not to mention sucking up 25% of the entire payroll makes it hard to spend for a winner.

That is why I said sort of redeemed himself. I still think he as a person is a jerk, ego-driven, etc. But, the fact that he went behind his own agents back because he wanted to remain with the Yankees and took less money than what his agent was demanding makes my view of him a little better( I stress the word a little).

In a book from an old Yankees batboy( before they had to sign a NDA), he stated that fellow Yankee players would tip him somewhere around $500 or so( can't remember the exact amount, but it was quite a tip). A-Rod only tipped him like $50-$100. Eventually A-Rod took notice of how much the others tipped and because he wanted to become the new "king" of the clubhouse he tipped the batboy the most( if not matched the others). And he had him do ridiculous things. His toothbrush had to be in a specific position in a cup, the toothpaste had to be placed just right, etc.

I'm sorry, but if you're bothered by greed (and douchery), don't be a blind homer, A-Rod is king.

If Pujols gets his way, he'll be the new king as he will be the highest paid player in baseball.

But, I doubt that will happen. All the big markets that could afford a contract of that size( Yankees, Phillies, Boston, etc) are not in the market for a 1B. The only team that can afford even remotely close to what he wants is St.Louis and they don't seem to be budging much on their 9 years/ $210 million offer. I am surprised though they are offering him 9 years. One would think an A-Rod type contract will be scaring teams like nothing else. A-Rod is almost 37 years old, his body is starting to break down, his production has gone down a lot( offense and defensively), and the Yankees are stuck with him until he is 42 years old.

If Pujols was 26, 9 year deal no problem. But at age 31, a 9 year deal will scare me.

 

[MacNut]

How much are the Marlins willing to give Pujols. Is it just lip service or will they make him a legit offer?

 

[quagmire]

How much are the Marlins willing to give Pujols. Is it just lip service or will they make him a legit offer?

From what I read, it's a real offer, but it's not close to St. Louis's deal.

Oh and found where I read the whole A-Rod thing..... The players really tipped the guy well....

I had to chuckle at how he aped the captain. For example, Jeter and some of the other guys were terrific tippers. Roger Clemens gave me $3,000 at the end of the year. Posada gave me $7,000. A-Rod might come in with $1,400. Sure, it's still a sizable amount, but when he found out that other players were tipping higher, he had to imitate them, and he bumped his tips up. In fact, he had to make sure he was the best tipper in the league. He even tipped me $100 a week to make sure there was a creatine shake waiting for him after each home game.

A-Rod irritated the other players because he was so high-maintenance. He required his personal assistant to position his toothbrush on a certain part of the sink, specifically the edge near the right-hand cold water tap, leaning with bristles up over the basin. The first time he ordered me to do this, I couldn't believe my ears when he said, "And put some toothpaste on it."
Probably the strangest thing we had to do for A-Rod was lay his clothes out on the table so he could get dressed. You had to lay out these items in a predetermined order: socks at the head of the table, followed by undershorts, undershirt, shirt, pants, and then shoes. I had to carry his clothes from his locker to the trainer's room, where he liked to get dressed away from the prying eyes of the media.

A-Rod was different in another, childish way that made players laugh behind his back. When you watch games at home you sometimes see players come into the dugout after they hit a home run. If you've ever wondered what they're saying, it's usually things like "Way to go!" or "Good job!" Not A-Rod. After he hits a home run, he comes into the dugout and brags about it. Usually he's speaking Spanish to one of the other Latino players, and if he hit a home run he wouldn't shut up. "Wow, did you see I hit a home run?" he'd say. "That pitcher threw me a ball right over the plate and I smashed it over the fence. Did you ever see anything like that before?"

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/bronx/tales_from_the_dugout_batboy_tell_QR2Xw9gM2EU7szAdzuFvEJ/0

 

[Queen of Spades]

But, the fact that he went behind his own agents back because he wanted to remain with the Yankees and took less money than what his agent was demanding makes my view of him a little better( I stress the word a little).

In my opinion, his desire to remain with the Yankees was partially because he liked the team, but also because it's the one team where he wouldn't have to worry about carrying the load - on the field and off. Remember his steroid excuse:

Rodriguez admitted to using steroids, saying he used them from 2001 to 2003 when playing for the Texas Rangers due to what he called "an enormous amount of pressure" to perform.

I mean, I guess we just agree to disagree, but I don't think Alex Rodriguez has done anything whatsoever to earn redemption.

Pujols being a greedy motherf- doesn't mean A-Rod's any less of a greedy douche lord. It means he has company.

----------

How much are the Marlins willing to give Pujols. Is it just lip service or will they make him a legit offer?

You couldn't pay me enough to wear those hideous uniforms*. I mean seriously, they're going to look like a squad of fashion victims.

*okay, maybe if it were enough money I would.

 

[quagmire]

In my opinion, his desire to remain with the Yankees was partially because he liked the team, but also because it's the one team where he wouldn't have to worry about carrying the load - on the field and off. Remember his steroid excuse:

That desire improved his image with me a little bit( seriously, cannot stress a little enough, but it did move it up even the smallest of a fraction). Like I said, I still think he is a douche. The whole hitting the ball out of the Red Sox players hand back in the 2004 ALCS, yelling, " I got it" to prevent the SS/3B from catching a routine pop up on the infield, and his clubhouse behavior told by a former batboy I posted above still has me not liking the guy as a person.

Just giving him props for doing something remotely respectable by contacting the Yankees himself to work out a deal.

 

[Moyank24]

You couldn't pay me enough to wear those hideous uniforms*. I mean seriously, they're going to look like a squad of fashion victims.

*okay, maybe if it were enough money I would.

I was going to bring that up. Whomever thought this horrid logo was a good idea needs to be fired. Right now.

 

[robo]

To say Papelbon didn't fit the Red Sox clubhouse is absurd, he was maybe the most obnoxious of the bunch. Not sure how he will fit in with the Phillies, will he have to tone down his schick.

Keep the beer on ice in the Phillies clubhouse and he will be fine.
Peace

 

[Queen of Spades]

Source: Valentine gets Red Sox job

I've always been slightly amused by him ever since he was ejected during a Mets game in 1999 and then came back in the dugout wearing a mustache disguise.

He wasn't my first choice, but I'm fine with the hire.

Broxton signs with the Royals

A little surprised by this one - I figured he'd elect to go somewhere more competitive, and also maybe as a closer. He was pretty sought after.

 

[Moyank24]

Source: Valentine gets Red Sox job

I've always been slightly amused by him ever since he was ejected during a Mets game in 1999 and then came back in the dugout wearing a mustache disguise.

He wasn't my first choice, but I'm fine with the hire.

Broxton signs with the Royals

A little surprised by this one - I figured he'd elect to go somewhere more competitive, and also maybe as a closer. He was pretty sought after.

And in more important news....

Today is Mariano Rivera's Birthday...

I'm kidding....That's a good hire for the Sox. I've always liked him and he had a good run with the Mets. Also, no doubt he'll be able to handle Boston and all the hoopla that surrounds that team.

 

[Koodauw]

I love the hiring of Bobby V. I don't know why everyone likes him. Have you ever listened to him on a broadcast or baseball tonight? Seems like a moron to me....

 

[Queen of Spades]

I love the hiring of Bobby V. I don't know why everyone likes him. Have you ever listened to him on a broadcast or baseball tonight? Seems like a moron to me....

A moron? I think that might be a stretch. He's won multiple championships in Japan and took the Mets to the World Series. His broadcasting abilities notwithstanding, he knows baseball.

 

[Moyank24]

He's not a moron. I watched him for years in NY...He's quirky and has a fun personality, but the guy has a very, very smart baseball mind....don't let the other stuff fool you.

 

[Queen of Spades]

Today is Mariano Rivera's Birthday...

Happy Birthday, Mo.

I have to admit, I like the guy. Not only is he the best ever, he's also got a sense of humor about himself and about baseball. I'll never forget that standing ovation he got at Fenway Park during Opening Day 2005 after he blew a couple of ALCS saves when the Red Sox won the 2004 World Series. He laughed and tipped his cap. Classic.

It will be really strange when he finally retires.

 

[Moyank24]

Happy Birthday, Mo.

I have to admit, I like the guy. Not only is he the best ever, he's also got a sense of humor about himself and about baseball. I'll never forget that standing ovation he got at Fenway Park during Opening Day 2005 after he blew a couple of ALCS saves when the Red Sox won the 2004 World Series. He laughed and tipped his cap. Classic.

It will be really strange when he finally retires.

I'm a bit of a homer, of course....but since the day he stepped on the mound he has been a class act. And an absolute pleasure to watch.

And how refreshing is it that he doesn't do anything obnoxious after he saves a game?

 

[Queen of Spades]

I'm a bit of a homer, of course....but since the day he stepped on the mound he has been a class act. And an absolute pleasure to watch.

And how refreshing is it that he doesn't do anything obnoxious after he saves a game?

Unlike Joba Chamberlain.

But yeah, Joba and Jonathan Papelbon could learn some things from Mo. Okay, enough Yankee loving please, I just had dinner.

 

[Moyank24]

Unlike Joba Chamberlain.

But yeah, Joba and Jonathan Papelbon could learn some things from Mo. Okay, enough Yankee loving please, I just had dinner.

No worries...a few more months and we'll be fighting.

And I agree about Joba...at least Papelbon has done something. But I'm against all of that crap, no matter who's doing it.