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He wasn't at the top of my personal choice list, but I do believe we're going to like that gold glove in center instead of the rag arm of Pierre. Dollars aside, the two year deal is good for both Jones and the Dodgers. Jones is going to have a lot to prove over the next two years, and I look forward to him trying. But I am afraid this means that Kemp is expendable.

you'll be 100% satisfied with his defense, he'll make plays easy where most struggle, and shown us with his amazing plays why he is probably the best defensive centerfielder since willie mays.

his offense is another story. his bat is very inconsistent, and with the exception of two years, isn't anything to brag about. his stance is all screwy, and he easily goes into extended slumps (2-30 like), and seems to swing for the fences too often instead of listening to his batting coach and doing that. if you can fix his bat away from the horrible offensive output he had last year, you'll love him more than dl drew.
 
As a Giants fan, it makes me outstandingly happy that the Dodgers would trade away the next big thing.

Speaking of potential mistakes...

From Tom Verducci in SI:

A true hot stove winter

On Nov. 19, 1993, the Los Angeles Dodgers traded a 5-foot-11, 22-year-old righthander to Montreal to get one of the best young hitters in the game. Delino DeShields was 24 years old and already had 575 hits. It was a fascinating, pure talent-for-talent trade not driven by salary concerns. The Dodgers were worried that the kid pitcher might not be too durable. The kid pitcher, Pedro Martinez, turned out okay for Montreal.

Now check out a trade conversation that occurred Monday between San Francisco and Toronto: 5-foot-11, 23-year-old righthander Tim Lincecum for one of the best young hitters in the game, Alex Rios, who is 26 years old and has -- get this -- exactly 575 hits.

As of Tuesday night, the Jays were still waiting to hear again from the Giants. San Francisco won't move Matt Cain because it regards him as more durable in the long run. It is tempted to move Lincecum only because its lineup and system are so devoid of impact hitters. The Jays could wind up with possibly the best pure stuff overall of any rotation in the league (Roy Halladay, A.J. Burnett, Lincecum, Dustin McGowan, Shaun Marcum), or they could shop Burnett for a big outfield bat to replace Rios.

We've already seen the Twins move pitcher Matt Garza, 24, for outfielder Delmon Young, 22. The Giants are likely to have cold feet about moving Lincecum because his stuff is so electric -- Pedroesque at times. But thanks to underwhelming free agent choices, an old-fashioned hot stove winter with talent-for-talent trades may be back in vogue.
 
Speaking of potential mistakes...

From Tom Verducci in SI:

A true hot stove winter

On Nov. 19, 1993, the Los Angeles Dodgers traded a 5-foot-11, 22-year-old righthander to Montreal to get one of the best young hitters in the game. Delino DeShields was 24 years old and already had 575 hits. It was a fascinating, pure talent-for-talent trade not driven by salary concerns. The Dodgers were worried that the kid pitcher might not be too durable. The kid pitcher, Pedro Martinez, turned out okay for Montreal.

Now check out a trade conversation that occurred Monday between San Francisco and Toronto: 5-foot-11, 23-year-old righthander Tim Lincecum for one of the best young hitters in the game, Alex Rios, who is 26 years old and has -- get this -- exactly 575 hits.

As of Tuesday night, the Jays were still waiting to hear again from the Giants. San Francisco won't move Matt Cain because it regards him as more durable in the long run. It is tempted to move Lincecum only because its lineup and system are so devoid of impact hitters. The Jays could wind up with possibly the best pure stuff overall of any rotation in the league (Roy Halladay, A.J. Burnett, Lincecum, Dustin McGowan, Shaun Marcum), or they could shop Burnett for a big outfield bat to replace Rios.

We've already seen the Twins move pitcher Matt Garza, 24, for outfielder Delmon Young, 22. The Giants are likely to have cold feet about moving Lincecum because his stuff is so electric -- Pedroesque at times. But thanks to underwhelming free agent choices, an old-fashioned hot stove winter with talent-for-talent trades may be back in vogue.

I was in fear for a couple of days from this trade, but the Giants just traded a young reliever with nice potential but horrible control for Matsui from the Yankees. The Giants have too many OFs as is, so HOPEFULLY, this stops any trade of Lincecum/Cain for Rios.

It was a nice trade in itself. The aftereffects of the trade are more significant though. If Lincecum or Cain are ever traded away from the Giants, I will no longer be a fan.
 
As a Giants fan, it makes me outstandingly happy that the Dodgers would trade away the next big thing.

I hope they don't trade Kemp, but if it happens it really does matter what they get in return -- and of course as much as every Dodger fan would like to believe that Kemp is the Next Big Thing, the kid is still pretty rough and we don't know where he'll be in a year or two. A heck of a lot of guys with great talent go nowhere because they can't learn discipline.
 
I was in fear for a couple of days from this trade, but the Giants just traded a young reliever with nice potential but horrible control for Matsui from the Yankees. The Giants have too many OFs as is, so HOPEFULLY, this stops any trade of Lincecum/Cain for Rios.

It was a nice trade in itself. The aftereffects of the trade are more significant though. If Lincecum or Cain are ever traded away from the Giants, I will no longer be a fan.
I don't see anything about a trade, just an offer.
3:45 p.m., from Jayson Stark
• A source says the Giants did call the Yankees about Hideki Matsui. They're offering their starting pitchers (Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain or Noah Lowry) for bats, but they are just exploring to see if there is a match. Matsui has a full no-trade clause, and it isn't known whether he would waive it to go to San Francisco or anywhere else.
NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- The Giants, who are desperately seeking offense, have inquired about Yankees outfielder Hideki Matsui's availability. Matsui has a no-trade clause, so if there's a match there, the Yankees first would have to get his approval.

The Giants have a lot of good young pitchers whose names have come up in trades, with Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum at the top of the list, followed by Noah Lowry and Jonathan Sanchez. The Yankees, who have said they are out of the Johan Santana sweepstakes, would still like to upgrade their pitching staff.

The Giants had been talking to the Blue Jays about Alex Rios, but Toronto asked for either Cain or Lincecum, who have been called virtually untouchable by the Giants.

The Yankees are talking to other teams about pitching help and have had some talks with the Pirates about Damaso Marte and John Grabow. Marte was once a Yankee.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/12/06/giants.matsui/index.html

It also looks like the Twins might hold on to Santana and try to sign him.
 
I was in fear for a couple of days from this trade, but the Giants just traded a young reliever with nice potential but horrible control for Matsui from the Yankees. The Giants have too many OFs as is, so HOPEFULLY, this stops any trade of Lincecum/Cain for Rios.

It was a nice trade in itself. The aftereffects of the trade are more significant though. If Lincecum or Cain are ever traded away from the Giants, I will no longer be a fan.

The impression I get is that the Giants realize how weak their Bonds-less lineup will be in 2008, but none of their many current outfielders has a good bat. There's a real possibility that they could even have a worse offense than the 2003 Dodgers, which is really saying something. On the other hand, if pitching is their one strength, then trading Cain or Lincecum now might not help.

And like IJ said, you gotta be careful about getting attached to young prospects and popular clubhouse guys. The one comforting thought for me from the Pedro/DeShields trade is that there really was no sign at the time that Pedro was going to be a superstar. But Paul Konerko DID look pretty good and they traded him anyway. Remember when Carlos Perez was going to be a bad-ass? And Wilson Alvarez? You never know. Sometimes you'll steal a young player from another team, sometimes you'll get taken. As good as Lincecum looks now, he's put up no better numbers than a thousand other good, young pitchers of the past that didn't go far. There was a time when Pedro Astacio was going to be the Dodgers' future ace. Or Ismael Valdez. Or Chan Ho Park. Or Darren Dreifort.

* By the way, the Dodgers chose Dreifort with the second overall pick in the draft that year. Seattle got the first overall pick because they won a coin flip. They used it to choose Alex Rodriguez. Every scout that year considered Rodriguez the best overall and Dreifort the best pitcher in that draft, so both choices were no-brainers. What might have been... *sigh* :rolleyes:
 
The impression I get is that the Giants realize how weak their Bonds-less lineup will be in 2008, but none of their many current outfielders has a good bat. There's a real possibility that they could even have a worse offense than the 2003 Dodgers, which is really saying something. On the other hand, if pitching is their one strength, then trading Cain or Lincecum now might not help.

And like IJ said, you gotta be careful about getting attached to young prospects and popular clubhouse guys. The one comforting thought for me from the Pedro/DeShields trade is that there really was no sign at the time that Pedro was going to be a superstar. But Paul Konerko DID look pretty good and they traded him anyway. Remember when Carlos Perez was going to be a bad-ass? And Wilson Alvarez? You never know. Sometimes you'll steal a young player from another team, sometimes you'll get taken. As good as Lincecum looks now, he's put up no better numbers than a thousand other good, young pitchers of the past that didn't go far. There was a time when Pedro Astacio was going to be the Dodgers' future ace. Or Ismael Valdez. Or Chan Ho Park. Or Darren Dreifort.

* By the way, the Dodgers chose Dreifort with the second overall pick in the draft that year. Seattle got the first overall pick because they won a coin flip. They used it to choose Alex Rodriguez. Every scout that year considered Rodriguez the best overall and Dreifort the best pitcher in that draft, so both choices were no-brainers. What might have been... *sigh* :rolleyes:

I'd put it slightly differently, aloofman. The Giants do have a few good bats in the lineup (one in the outfield) but they have no legit 3-4-5 hitters. Winn and Molina are fine hitting in the 2 hole (Winn) or the 6 or 7 hole (Winn or Molina) but they are overmatched in the heart of the lineup - mostly because they lack the power one expects in those positions. That doesn't mean they are punch and judy hitters, but 15 homeruns per year, or there about, doesn't scare a whole lot of people.

Now, the Giants might try modeling themselves after the Dodger teams of the 60s, but if they do, they had better hope Brian Wilson is the next Ron Perranoski. Without a competent closer they are going to continue to blow games they should win at an alarming rate. Fortunately, Wilson might just be better that Perranoski. They're going to also have to have some of the young speedsters show they can get on with some regularity. My prediction today - last place 15-20 games out while leading the league in one-run losses.

btw, I like Brian Sabean, but if he trades Tim Lincecum or Matt Cain I'm heating up the tar and plucking the feathers myself. And Matsui would be great, as long as Timmy and Matt aren't involved.
 
Matsui's bat has slowed down, after his injury 2 years ago he isn't the same hitter he once was, and he is getting older.
 
Now, the Giants might try modeling themselves after the Dodger teams of the 60s, but if they do, they had better hope Brian Wilson is the next Ron Perranoski. Without a competent closer they are going to continue to blow games they should win at an alarming rate. Fortunately, Wilson might just be better that Perranoski. They're going to also have to have some of the young speedsters show they can get on with some regularity. My prediction today - last place 15-20 games out while leading the league in one-run losses.

You're probably right about the lack of a closer. Those 2003 Dodgers won 85 games while leading the league in ERA and having the worst offense in the league. (The middle of the order: Fred "Oh NOW He's Finally Done" McGriff, hobbled and streaky Brian Jordan, and a Shawn Green that hit doubles instead of home runs.) They had the best team ERA in years and possibly the best bullpen of all time, with Gagne mowing down every batter he saw. And they STILL finished 15 games out.

I don't think the mid-1960s Dodgers are a model that can win in this era. The rules were more pitcher-friendly back then. And when Koufax-Drysdale is half of your four-man rotation, you already have a leg up on other teams. (I think Johnson-Schilling on the 2001 D'backs are the only starter tandem that's compared since then.) It's possible that a Giants reliever could step up and surprise everyone, what with bullpen arms being so fickle. But I think it's going to be a couple of years of rebuilding.

Meanwhile, I have nagging concerns that the 2008 Dodgers will underachieve again. Unless they land a Haren or Bedard, they're an arm injury away from a repeat of 2007. I also worry that Kent and Garciaparra will get too many at-bats even if they decline further. Isn't it great that we're fretting about these things in December? We're months away from seeing anyone play and already saddled with lots of baseball baggage. :D
 
Meanwhile, I have nagging concerns that the 2008 Dodgers will underachieve again. Unless they land a Haren or Bedard, they're an arm injury away from a repeat of 2007. I also worry that Kent and Garciaparra will get too many at-bats even if they decline further. Isn't it great that we're fretting about these things in December? We're months away from seeing anyone play and already saddled with lots of baseball baggage. :D

Hang on a second -- you'll get no argument about Garciaparra's terrible 2007 season, but Kent was better in 2007 than he was in 2006. He led the team in average, home runs and RBIs. After the '06 season I wondered if he had any more gas left in him -- now I think he's probably good for another year. As for who deserves to get at-bats, that's now Joe Torre's call. Hope springs eternal, eh?
 
Hang on a second -- you'll get no argument about Garciaparra's terrible 2007 season, but Kent was better in 2007 than he was in 2006. He led the team in average, home runs and RBIs. After the '06 season I wondered if he had any more gas left in him -- now I think he's probably good for another year. As for who deserves to get at-bats, that's now Joe Torre's call. Hope springs eternal, eh?

Kent's hitting hasn't slacked off as much as expected so far, but his fielding and baserunning have really gone downhill. At this point I don't expect him to reach many balls that aren't hit right to him. And I would submit that leading the 2007 Dodgers in hitting isn't the impressive feat that it sounds!

You're right though that Kent is looking like one of those players that might keep earning a lineup spot up until he retires. I'm just not expecting him to right now.
 
Kent's hitting hasn't slacked off as much as expected so far, but his fielding and baserunning have really gone downhill. At this point I don't expect him to reach many balls that aren't hit right to him. And I would submit that leading the 2007 Dodgers in hitting isn't the impressive feat that it sounds!

You're right though that Kent is looking like one of those players that might keep earning a lineup spot up until he retires. I'm just not expecting him to right now.

The Dodgers didn't have a problem with team batting average last year, or even with run production particularly. Anybody with a .300 average and 20 home runs isn't exactly a shabby performer, on any team. At the end of 2006 I though Kent might be used up, but he started '07 in better condition and he was DL-free throughout. He had a good year -- which is why I think he believes he earned griping rights. Barring the unforeseen, I think Kent starts next season, with Abreu getting into a lot of games especially in late innings.
 
You're probably right about the lack of a closer. Those 2003 Dodgers won 85 games while leading the league in ERA and having the worst offense in the league. (The middle of the order: Fred "Oh NOW He's Finally Done" McGriff, hobbled and streaky Brian Jordan, and a Shawn Green that hit doubles instead of home runs.) They had the best team ERA in years and possibly the best bullpen of all time, with Gagne mowing down every batter he saw. And they STILL finished 15 games out.

I don't think the mid-1960s Dodgers are a model that can win in this era. The rules were more pitcher-friendly back then. And when Koufax-Drysdale is half of your four-man rotation, you already have a leg up on other teams. (I think Johnson-Schilling on the 2001 D'backs are the only starter tandem that's compared since then.) It's possible that a Giants reliever could step up and surprise everyone, what with bullpen arms being so fickle. But I think it's going to be a couple of years of rebuilding.
I do think it is possible to win with less emphasis on hitting and more on pitching and defense. Having said that, I think the Giants are not only not there yet in the pitching rotation (two hall of famers is an awful high standard to compare second and third year players to, no matter their talent,) but more importantly the team isn't even comparable to the 60's Dodger teams in terms of offense. The Giants need some players to bounce back (Durham and Roberts) and at least some young players to step up and show they can really play in the majors (Frandsen, Lewis, Davis, Ormeier, Schierholtz) for the team to even get to mediocre as an offense. Mediocre would work with their pitching, but there has to be improvements or the season is lost.

With the bullpen, I like some of the young arms and a few of the older ones. I think Wilson is the best reliever I've seen in the Giants system since Robb Nen blew out his arm. Doesn't mean he will be the Giants' version of Houston Street, but at this point I'm thinking he has a good chance.

Meanwhile, I have nagging concerns that the 2008 Dodgers will underachieve again. Unless they land a Haren or Bedard, they're an arm injury away from a repeat of 2007. I also worry that Kent and Garciaparra will get too many at-bats even if they decline further. Isn't it great that we're fretting about these things in December? We're months away from seeing anyone play and already saddled with lots of baseball baggage. :D

I think the Dodgers have done a very good thing with the signing of Jones. He gives them the one great power bat they have been lacking. A true cleanup hitter. I'm betting that his struggles of last year aren't the start of a trend, but if they are, the Dodgers are on the hook for only two years.

But I think the Dodgers' chances are really all about the health of the starting rotation. If everyone stays healthy, and you get anything like a full season out of Schmidt, I think the Dodgers are the favorites in the division.
 
....but more importantly the team isn't even comparable to the 60's Dodger teams in terms of offense.

The 1964-66 teams were the epitome of little ball, but most people forget that in 1962 the Dodgers scored the most runs in the NL even though it was the first year in Dodger Stadium. I think you can chalk most of that up to Wills running wild and Tommie Davis having a career year driving in runs though.

I think the Dodgers have done a very good thing with the signing of Jones. He gives them the one great power bat they have been lacking. A true cleanup hitter. I'm betting that his struggles of last year aren't the start of a trend, but if they are, the Dodgers are on the hook for only two years.

Even though it's overpaying in terms of salary, I like the Jones signing too. I think he will hit better this year, and that barring injury, he'll play hard toward free agency again in 2009. My main worry is that Jones will probably displace Kemp or Ethier from the outfield and not Pierre. But that's a separate decision from signing Jones. Teams took extra bases all season long against Pierre, which shouldn't happen nearly as often now.

But I think the Dodgers' chances are really all about the health of the starting rotation. If everyone stays healthy, and you get anything like a full season out of Schmidt, I think the Dodgers are the favorites in the division.

I like their chances. It will be interesting to see if Arizona and Colorado are going to keep improving. It seems likely that at least one of them will regress slightly, but both teams have a lot of young talent. The Padres seem to once again have the pitching and defense to compete no matter how well they hit.
 
I like their chances. It will be interesting to see if Arizona and Colorado are going to keep improving. It seems likely that at least one of them will regress slightly, but both teams have a lot of young talent. The Padres seem to once again have the pitching and defense to compete no matter how well they hit.

I'm not so confident (barring additional trades or signings). The division will be up for grabs -- we'll be starting with four competitive teams this year, which we didn't think we had in the division at the beginning of 2007.
 
I like their chances. It will be interesting to see if Arizona and Colorado are going to keep improving. It seems likely that at least one of them will regress slightly, but both teams have a lot of young talent. The Padres seem to once again have the pitching and defense to compete no matter how well they hit.

I can't believe Colorado can repeat that kind of finish next year. They're a great young hitting team with still suspect pitching in the starting rotation. Arizona was one of the worst teams in the league in scoring runs (I'd have to look it up but they had let up more runs than the scored for most of the year) but they won an incredible number of one-run victories. Not likely to happen again. Both teams are young so they may well get better, but I like the Dodgers and the Padres as the top two finishers.

Not that I don't hope the Giants will surprise everyone and win it by 20 games going away. It's just that such delusional thinking is harder to sustain as the years go by. Perhaps I need to drink more Anchor Steam.
 
NEW YORK -- Moving to shore up their weak middle relief, the New York Yankees reached a preliminary agreement on a $3.75 million, one-year contract with right-hander LaTroy Hawkins.

Hawkins' deal is subject to him passing a physical, a baseball official familiar with the negotiations said Sunday, speaking on condition of anonymity because the contract has not been finalized.

The right-hander, who will be 35 on Dec. 21, was 2-5 with a 3.42 ERA last season for the Colorado Rockies. He made $3.25 million and Colorado declined a $3.75 million option, choosing to pay a $250,000 buyout.

New York's middle relievers struggled last season, with Kyle Farnsworth and Luis Vizcaino pitching inconsistently for long stretches and the Yankees converting Joba Chamberlain, a starter in the minors, into a reliever for the final two months of the season. Chamberlain became Mariano Rivera's primary setup man, but New York plans on including Chamberlain in its starting rotation next year.

Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said he hoped to re-sign Vizcaino, who on Friday declined the team's offer of salary arbitration.

Hawkins pitched for the Minnesota Twins from 1995-2003, then moved on to the Chicago Cubs, San Francisco Giants, Baltimore Orioles and the Rockies. He made five postseason appearances this year, allowing one run and one hit in five innings.

His decision to sign with the Yankees was first reported by foxsports.com.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3147959
 
In the coming days "The Report" will be released.
With the highly anticipated Mitchell report on performance-enhancing drugs in baseball expected to be released within the coming days, scores of baseball employees who were interviewed by former Sen. George Mitchell's investigators said that the inquiry has been critically hampered by investigative missteps, Mitchell's close personal ties in the industry and the longstanding fracture between baseball's owners and players' union. These baseball insiders offer an unprecedented and unfiltered view of the 20-month investigation.

Club executives are nervous that Mitchell will be unsparing in his assessment of their role in enabling the game's steroid culture, while team trainers and strength coaches feel the Mitchell team explicitly pressured them to "guess" about steroid use by specific players. The aim, say trainers and strength coaches, was to produce a report heavy on high-profile names but low on solutions.

The concerns regarding the investigation, these sources say, raise the level of intrigue and anxiety about what Mitchell ultimately will reveal. If he produces a powerful, comprehensive report, they believe these anxieties can be assuaged. But if the report fails to reach that standard, they say it will be clear that the obstacles the investigation encountered from its start were impossible to overcome. Accompanying that intrigue -- and perhaps because of that intrigue -- is a sense that not only will Mitchell's document fail to please everyone, it might fail to please anyone. If that happens, the report -- instead of providing an endpoint to baseball's steroids era -- will instead serve as another example of the game's inability to come to terms with the issue.
More reading.....http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3142651
 
Off the fence, finally. I hope Joe Torre has better luck managing "Mr. Personality."

Kent will return with $9-million option
Jones passes physical and will be introduced today.

Jeff Kent has postponed retirement and will play out the final year of his contract with the Dodgers, his agent said Tuesday night.

Jeff Klein wrote in an e-mail that the 39-year-old Kent has informed Dodgers General Manager Ned Colletti of his decision. Colletti confirmed that he had "a thorough conversation" with Kent over the phone before last week's winter meetings.

Klein wrote in the e-mail that the second baseman "is looking forward to returning for his fourth season with the Dodgers. He is actively pursuing his customary and rigorous off-season conditioning and weightlifting program, and is very focused on helping his team win the World Series this year."

Colletti and Manager Joe Torre sounded fairly optimistic in recent months that Kent would be back. Torre, who is also represented by Klein, said he received a phone message from Kent upon being hired by the Dodgers last month.

Kent was slowed by a strained hamstring over the second half of last season, but finished batting .302 with a team-best 20 home runs. He also had 79 runs batted in.

Kent has hit .290 with 365 home runs over 16 seasons.

...

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-dodrep12dec12,1,1786682.story
 
Off the fence, finally. I hope Joe Torre has better luck managing "Mr. Personality."

IJ--

Torre seems like just the right type of manager for Kent. Torre will simply expect him to be professional, and from the news stories of him I've read he won't be shy about pulling Kent aside if necessary and explaining the reality of the situation to him. Obviously that's no guarantee, but personality-wise it seems like it's a good match.

The Dodgers look like they are potentially a terrific team next year--I'd say they're the favorite for the NL West, which really does look like it will be a dogfight.
 
IJ--

Torre seems like just the right type of manager for Kent. Torre will simply expect him to be professional, and from the news stories of him I've read he won't be shy about pulling Kent aside if necessary and explaining the reality of the situation to him. Obviously that's no guarantee, but personality-wise it seems like it's a good match.

The Dodgers look like they are potentially a terrific team next year--I'd say they're the favorite for the NL West, which really does look like it will be a dogfight.

I hope so, on both counts. I don't know if Grady Little could have done more to keep Kent from mouthing off to the press like he did, but I expect Torre will bring instant respect to the table and forestall any public complaining when the going gets rough, as it always does.

I expected the Dodgers to be the favorites in the division last season, and those expectations were justified right into July. Now the division is so much more competitive, and the Dodgers have made so few upgrades, that I can't get my hopes up too high yet. The way things stand now, all the pieces need to fall into place -- and that rarely happens.
 
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