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MLB Hotstove 08

The more I think and read about this, the more I don't like the trade.

- I definitely don't want to give up Buchholz or Ellsbury.
- Lester has a ton of potential and he's only 23 years old. When he and Papelbon were drafted, the Sox actually valued Lester higher than Papelbon. If it were not for his setback because of cancer, he would have been great this year.
- Masterson looks to be a great RP prospect, which we definitely need since the bullpen could always use another good young arm.
- Santana is going to demand a huge contract which is going to be a waste of money. It's just going to turn us in to the Yankees.
- Santana is a power pitcher who's already had 180 starts. He's probably already peaked and might be starting to decline, as evidenced by his stats and performance for this past season.
- Buchholz, Ellsbury, Lester, and Masterson will earn less than 1/10th of what Santana would earn in about 3 years and would contribute much more.
- Santana is going to come in and demand twice as much money as Beckett, who just won us the World Series, is making.
- We already have our ace. We also have Matsuzaka who is going to be much better next year.

Oh, and the key point:

- We won the World Series with this team, and have won 2 of the past 4 WS. We're not desperate to win a championship. We don't need to turn in to the Yankees, trading away the future for a guy who's only going to be effective for about 4 years.

Many media outlets are now saying that the Angels are in talks for Santana because their Cabrera deal has fallen through. I hope they get him. We could use our prospects for a better trade for a position that we actually need, something involving Crisp, Lowrie, Bowden to get us an A grade catcher prospect to replace Tek in a couple years.
 
zioxide said:
The more I think and read about this, the more I don't like the trade.
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That's how I feel about the Yankees trading for him. It seems unwise to give up young players with (effectively) unlimited potential for someone who can only go down.....I sincerely hope Cashman is able to hold off!
 
Naimfan said:
That's how I feel about the Yankees trading for him. It seems unwise to give up young players with (effectively) unlimited potential for someone who can only go down.....I sincerely hope Cashman is able to hold off!
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Except the Yankees are going to be ****ed if Santana goes to the Sox.

The two best pitchers in the game, followed by Matsuzaka, Buchholz, and the veteran Schilling.

Johan Santana to the Red Sox is all but done. Jon Lester, a center fielder, Justin Masterson and Ryan Kalish are the package. More details now.

--Will Carroll, 5:15 p.m.
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http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6970

Has to be Coco Crisp. Including Ellsbury and Kalish in that deal would be awful.
 
ESPN Sportscenter Breaking News:

Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis to Detroit for 6 prospects/young players.

This also opens the Angels up to negotiate more with the Twins now that they are apparently out of the running for Cabrera.
 
zioxide said:
ESPN Sportscenter Breaking News:

Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis to Detroit for 6 prospects/young players.

This also opens the Angels up to negotiate more with the Twins now that they are apparently out of the running for Cabrera.
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i'm hearing that this is going to be moving time for the marlins...
 
zioxide said:
Except the Yankees are going to be ****ed if Santana goes to the Sox.

The two best pitchers in the game, followed by Matsuzaka, Buchholz, and the veteran Schilling.



http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6970

Has to be Coco Crisp. Including Ellsbury and Kalish in that deal would be awful.
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The Yankees will survive. it will be nice to call the Red Sox the evil empire for a change.:cool:

The one team really getting screwed is the Twins.
The Tigers and Marlins have agreed to a monster trade -- Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis to Detroit for Andrew Miller, Cameron Maybin, Mike Rabelo and three minor leaguer pitchers.
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And the Marlins wonder why they never have any fans.:rolleyes:
 
Since the Yanks are out of the trade talks with Santana, the Sox should get out too. If the Twins can't find a good deal for him, they won't trade him. And odds are, they wouldn't be able to trade him at the trade deadline because he wouldn't waive his no trade clause.

Then he would become a free agent and we could sign him without giving up prospects.
 
zioxide said:
Then he would become a free agent and we could sign him without giving up prospects.
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That is all well and good except that Santana is going to want 150 mil, 25 a year.

Don't expect the Red Sox to be the only team to go after him then either.;)

The whole reason the Twins are trading him now is to get something back for him, they are not going to let him walk and be left empty handed. Of course if they take the Red Sox deal they just about will be empty handed.:rolleyes:
 
from SOSH
FWIW, McAdam reported on Sports Tonight that the Sox package is Lester, Masterson, and Kalish. No Crisp, No Ellsbury. He explicitly said that, but he must be wrong.
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furcalchick said:
marlin fans are in a frenzy right now...what a disgrace to get rid of those two players in miguel and dontrelle. here's a thread from a marlins forum talking about this dumb move in fire sale part three.

http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=78813
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How do they expect to get a new stadium built if they don't have anyone worth watching. Why do these teams complain about not making money when they don't pay anyone. If your not going to spend the money on players why bother even running a team. Either sell it or close up shop and do something else.

-----------------------------------------------------------
The New York Yankees found a fresh arm for their bullpen Tuesday, reaching a preliminary agreement to trade Tyler Clippard to the Washington Nationals for right-hander Jonathan Albaladejo in a quiet swap of young pitchers.

The deal was subject to physicals, according to a person familiar with the talks who spoke on condition of anonymity because the trade had not yet been completed.

The 25-year-old Albaladejo was 1-1 with a 1.88 ERA in 14 relief appearances for Washington this season. The rookie struck out 12 and walked two in 14 1/3 innings. He also went 3-0 with a 1.13 ERA in 15 games at Triple-A Columbus.

Clippard made an impressive major league debut in May before a Sunday night national television audience. The 22-year-old beat the New York Mets 6-2 at Shea Stadium to help the Yankees avoid a Subway Series sweep. The lanky right-hander allowed three hits over six innings.

He was sent back down to the minors in June and finished 3-1 with a 6.33 ERA in six starts for the Yankees this year. He gave up six homers and 17 walks in 27 innings.
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MacNut said:
How do they expect to get a new stadium built if they don't have anyone worth watching. Why do these teams complain about not making money when they don't pay anyone. If your not going to spend the money on players why bother even running a team. Either sell it or close up shop and do something else.
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it gets worse...loria just made a $20 million donation to yale the other day. looks like he's pocketing the money. and i heard that the $30 million in revenue sharing is all supposed to be payroll money (a salary floor), not pocketing money. he's ultra cheap and wants to pocket as much money as possible. i don't think he even wanted to get a new stadium, i think he was in this to take miami for a ride, before eventually packing up to vegas, which i see happening now with their two big stars gone and likely less people going to games. people like loria make me lose faith in capitalism sometimes.
 
MacNut said:
There is never going to be a team in Vegas.
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it's probably going to be portland then. but it sounds like what bud and loria are up to is disgusting. how much longer until we get a real commissioner with teeth like goodell and kick out slimy owners like loria?

i found this gem posted by a nats fan on that thread linked from earlier.

Hey Fish Fans,

I'm coming over here from Nationals Fan Forum(we've got you guys linked as our de-facto Marlins info source :).

anyhow, just to offer an opinion:

this is sad, and i can't believe I am going to say this, but now I believe all those Expos conspiracy theorists that I've argued with over the years during our Relocation Saga. I didn't want to believe them, but I do now. man, they were right. The Expos were sabotaged in order to move them, and now they are doing the same thing to the Marlins.

this is shameful. Loria and Selig are doing the exact same thing with the Marlins that they did with the Expos, in the exact same manner. right down to playing games in San Juan. sure the end result was great for me, as I got a hometown baseball team, but it is still shameful that this is how it has to go down(i woulda been happy with an expansion team,honestly), and I feel for the Marlins fans who are still sticking with the team through all this.

and it is even more shameful in this case, because Miami *was* going to seriously consider funding for a brand new, publicly financed stadium. if i am to understand things correctly. but Loria found some excuse to back out of the deal, even though it likely favored him anyway.

I'm just wondering which franchise Loria/Selig are going to target next, how long will MLB own the Marlins for, and how long will MLB jerk around the City of Portland(the most OBVIOUS, and sensible candidate for relocation, imo) like they jerked around DC(and i don't just mean in 04, i man for years before that), before they finally decide to put the Marlins there.

Loria, and Bud Selig should be arrested (or something) for what they are doing.
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It's nothing new, they do it in all sports when they want a team moved.

...cough...
37416-Whalers.gif
...cough.
 
zioxide said:
Except the Yankees are going to be ****ed if Santana goes to the Sox.

The two best pitchers in the game, followed by Matsuzaka, Buchholz, and the veteran Schilling.
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Perhaps, for a year, assuming no injuries. Schilling will show he's done, and Buchholz and Matsuzaka will learn that major league hitters will hit them a LOT better in year 2..... And as we've noted, Santana is only headed down.....

I mean, it's not like Beckett won the Cy Young this year..... ;)
 
It does seem that the Red Sox are not preaching what they teach, They always compain that the Yankees buy championchips and it looks like the Red Sox are becoming the Yankees of old. I seem to recall everyone saying that the underdogs seem to do better now a days and who would the underdog be now.;)
 
MacNut said:
It does seem that the Red Sox are not preaching what they teach, They always compain that the Yankees buy championchips and it looks like the Red Sox are becoming the Yankees of old. I seem to recall everyone saying that the underdogs seem to do better now a days and who would the underdog be now.;)
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Except the Red Sox don't go signing 36-37 year olds to $45+ million dollar contracts.

Naimfan said:
Perhaps, for a year, assuming no injuries.
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Same goes for any team. I mean, look at what happened in April/May when Wang & Co were hurt. Yankees fell 14 games back.
 
lol.

Marlins 2008 Payroll is going to be around $12 million.

Yankees is going to be around $210 million. According to reports this morning, the reason they rejected the Santana trade was because they didn't want to get up to the $230-$240 million range.

A-Rod will make more money by the All Star Break than the entire Marlins roster.
 
12:15 p.m., from Peter Gammons
• Don't expect to see a Twins-Red Sox or Twins-Yankees whopper. The sense is now that Minnesota will hold onto Johan Santana.
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http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=winter_meetings


Piss or get off the pot for cripe's sake....

UPDATE, 12-5-07 at 9:56am: According to Keith Law via MetsBlog, the Twins have reached out to the Mets, Dodgers, and Angels to revisit Santana talks.
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http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/05/buzz-twins-reach-out-to-mets-and-others/
 
zioxide said:
Same goes for any team. I mean, look at what happened in April/May when Wang & Co were hurt. Yankees fell 14 games back.
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Rather undercuts your statement that the Yankees are in trouble for the next ten years, no? ;)
 
Naimfan said:
Rather undercuts your statement that the Yankees are in trouble for the next ten years, no? ;)
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Injury is always something that can happen. Assuming everyone stays heathy, the Red Sox will probably be the frontrunners in the AL East for a while :p.

Epstein has drafted great and the Sox have a ton of great prospects in the farm system. Our future is bright.

If the Santana trade doesn't happen, we have Masterson who could become a great setup guy for Papelbon, Lowrie to replace Lugo, Kalish to replace Manny or JD. Anderson to play 1B, Youk moving to 3rd when Lowell retires. Bowden to join the rotation behind Beckett, Dice-k, Buchholz, Lester after Schill and Wake retire.

The only position we don't have right now is catcher. I'd like to see them trade Crisp and a prospect to get a good catching prospect.

Meanwhile, the Yankees just locked up a 37 year old catcher and 38 year old closer for 4 and 3 years for almost 90 million combined.
 
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