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Re: reasonable to me

Originally posted by yzedf
i say that because you don't make money giving away free software.

$80US to get all of your needs met, seems good to me. music, photos, movies, email, chat, internet etc that people actually want to use?

i am in. i have no problems supporting a company i believe in.
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I will second this!

You vote with your $, so why don't you go out and cast your vote for the company you think does it best.


That being said, Apple does need to be careful not to jump the gun on their software sales/packages and make sure it runs well, or else they will be seen as selling inferior (*beta) software packages which is basically Microsoft...right?!?!

I think the marketing apple is doing by writing great software then charging for it later is learned from MS though...they did it with Internet Explorer...it was free, now it is paid for by Windows users (*even if you are just paying for it by paying more for your Windows upgrades to have it built in.) Isn't it ironic that Mac users don't have to "pay" for IE.
 
Re: Re: reasonable to me

Originally posted by flyfish29


I will second this!

You vote with your $, so why don't you go out and cast your vote for the company you think does it best.


That being said, Apple does need to be careful not to jump the gun on their software sales/packages and make sure it runs well, or else they will be seen as selling inferior (*beta) software packages which is basically Microsoft...right?!?!

I think the marketing apple is doing by writing great software then charging for it later is learned from MS though...they did it with Internet Explorer...it was free, now it is paid for by Windows users (*even if you are just paying for it by paying more for your Windows upgrades to have it built in.) Isn't it ironic that Mac users don't have to "pay" for IE.
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I'm not paying for e-mail and a browser :rolleyes: I'll use Eudora and Chimera thank you.
 
Re: Re: Re: reasonable to me

Originally posted by 3777


I'm not paying for e-mail and a browser :rolleyes: I'll use Eudora and Chimera thank you.
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I would use OS X mail, Chimera, and iLife less iDVD, which is all free/came with my OS.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: reasonable to me

Originally posted by Shadowfax


I would use OS X mail, Chimera, and iLife less iDVD, which is all free/came with my OS.
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I'm fine as long as they don't start charging for future versions / updates to Safari, mail, ect...... As long as it's always free then if some nitwit wants to pay for it let them:eek:
 
The Facts are

Apple charges a premium for their computers. Everyone knows their computers have twice the margin of the typical PC so when we hear of even rumors that Apple is considering charging for the basics it's frankly upsetting.

I'm ok with the concept of Apple making money. I agree with .mac. I agree with iLife. However Apple "IS" most likely getting a cut from the plugin developers creating iDVD and iMovie plugins. If not then I stand corrected.

iLife apps represent much more sophistication than this proposed bundle.

The next bundle I'd be willing to pay for would be Apples Digital Hub take on.

1. Phone

2. Television

Those would about cover the rest of the typical consumers needs.
 
Personally, I'd have no problem paying $30 dollars if apple were to launch another software bundle like iLife. I think it's a financially smart move on Apple's part. The only way they're going to be able to continue to provide us with great software is if they have dollars to fund these projects. Freebies are nice but in this economy there's a limit to how much you can give away. Balking about paying $50 dollars for something like iLife is just petty. Great software doesn't grow on trees.

Now where the hell are those new iPods? :mad:
 
Originally posted by MrBillGates
Personally, I'd have no problem paying $30 dollars if apple were to launch another software bundle like iLife. I think it's a financially smart move on Apple's part. The only way they're going to be able to continue to provide us with great software is if they have dollars to fund these projects. Freebies are nice but in this economy there's a limit to how much you can give away. Balking about paying $50 dollars for something like iLife is just petty. Great software doesn't grow on trees.

Now where the hell are those new iPods? :mad:
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I paid for the products mentioned when I bought OSX 10.2:rolleyes: As far as Safari, no one is going to pay for a browser..... if that's why they created Safari they may as well scrap it now because there will always be free browsers that are just as good.
 
Re: The Facts are

Originally posted by nuckinfutz
Apple charges a premium for their computers. Everyone knows their computers have twice the margin of the typical PC so when we hear of even rumors that Apple is considering charging for the basics it's frankly upsetting.
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This is somewhat inaccurate. Let me explain.

A PC is cheaper as a result of millions upon millions being made (economies of scale) as well as inferior materials and manufacturing processes, etc.

However, the margin is still basically the same %. Microsoft is still getting their high margin mark-up on the software(*we know this as Mr. G is a multi billionaire at least), the co. who makes the hard drive is getting their mark-up, so is the chip manufacturer and the assembler (compaq, Dell, etc.)

Because Apple makes EVERYTHING it does make the amount of profit they make on each computer seem like a high amount, but when the % is broken down it evens out. Apple needs to make money on each element and it just so happens they make all the profit from their computers except ones sold through another retailer (*which they are changing very quickly with Apple.com and Apple Stores)

Just my two cents.:D
 
Not likely. Apple wouldn't dare think of charging for software that performs tasks so basic that they are included with Windows.

"Hey, switch to our platform! We'll make you buy things you always thought were necessities in today's market!"

Say it out load. It helps emphasize the absurdity of it all.

Dan
 
Re: Re: The Facts are

Originally posted by flyfish29

However, the margin is still basically the same %.
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I worked at CompUSA when the first G4 came along. That's 1999, for those who forgot. At the time, my manager told me that he wasn't too worried if I sold fewer Macs than my coworkers sold PCs (I was the only Mac guy). The reason stated was higher margins.

Dan
 
Originally posted by 3777
I paid for the products mentioned when I bought OSX 10.2:rolleyes:
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Exactly. The ourcries from the cost of Jaguar were allayed when Steve Jobs stood on the Macworld stage and told us that $129 included over 150 new features.

150 new features for $129 does not mean $129 now, more if you want updates (or if you want them to actually, say, work.

No other program (Office, for instance) I know of charges full price for a suite and then hits you up again for the updates to the individual apps.

Then again, this coming from Spymac means we're arguing about how sunny the weather on Triton is.
 
Think about this logically.......... they will include them in all new comps........? .............They will have to include them in future versions of OSX.....unless they want to start taking features out now? So where is the rationale for putting them on CD?
 
Re: Re: The Facts are

Originally posted by flyfish29
....A PC is cheaper as a result of millions upon millions being made (economies of scale) as well as inferior materials and manufacturing processes, etc.
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Now if you had said something like "A PC is cheaper as a result of millions upon millions being made (economies of scale) AND the cut throat hardware margins currently existing in the PC market" I could have agreed with you.

But "inferior materials and manufacturing processes"...
<RANT ON> Come on Flyfish29 cut the blinkered MacNerd diatribe ! :rolleyes:
Just like other PC manufacturers Apple buys most of its components (cpu's, RAM, HDs, LCD screens, superdrives etc. etc.) in from third parties. OK they put them together into a more beautifully packaged whole than most PC manufacturers, but please don't try to convince me that the Intel P4 in my Dell is made from inferior materials or manufacturing process to the G4 in my iMac
<RANT OFF>
That said :eek: I don't see why Apple shouldn't be supported in their current struggles by charging (reasonable amounts) for software bundles. As long as they don't get too greedy and go over the top, and start charging for something as fundamental as Safari ! Anyway I for one have happily ordered iLife...


Another Thought !
Actually on reflection your comments make me wonder whether anyone has ever done an approximate component cost breakdown of an iMac, PM or PB ? A number of years ago I remember Iomega investors dissected a Zip drive to work out its approximate component cost and therefore profit margin. OK an iMac is a hell of a lot more complicated, but it might be an interesting exercise to approximate the cost of the "Apple component" of an iMac compared to all the included 3rd party components. As I have already seen a Japanese guys website where he dissected his new PB12" :eek: nothing would surprise me from some MacHeads ;)
 
HELLO

THEY ALREADY DID CHARGE ME WHEN I BOUGHT OSX JAGUAR WITH MAIL AND iCHAT INCLUDED. HELLO?
 
Bundle but no $?

What if they bundled iChat, Safari, and Mail but didn't charge? In other words, what if they integrated all surfing features (iSurf)? If you want to buy the CD, you can, but why would you? And they could also bundle Keynote with Appleworks and (iWork) but charged for that because it goes beyond "home" use?

I can't see Apple charging for basic browsing, chat and mail software -- otherwise you would just buy AOL or worse yet, MSN w/IE.

Remember, Apple's best selling computer to date was based around internet access -- I can't imagine them charging for what most people feel is a "core" function -- it's just shy of an OS at this point.

But it would be smart marketing to bundle stuff as "suites" rather than disparate apps -- as much as we criticize M$, they have done a good job with Office and people really like it. I would probably *not* pay for PowerPoint separately but use it every now and then.

Thoughts?
 
Re: Bundle but no $?

Originally posted by scorpion
What if they bundled iChat, Safari, and Mail but didn't charge? In other words, what if they integrated all surfing features (iSurf)? If you want to buy the CD, you can, but why would you?
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this is what i was saying awhile ago. they aren't going to charge, except for the CD. this is similar to iLife. you're just missing iDVD. and anyone with a DVD writer probably doesn't have an issue with dropping 50$ to upgrade his DVD software, viz iDVD, which came with his DVD writer if he bought a mac.

And they could also bundle Keynote with Appleworks and (iWork) but charged for that because it goes beyond "home" use?
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i dislike the name, but the idea of integrating Keynote would be a major step in making it a good pro office app like Office v.X.


I can't see Apple charging for basic browsing, chat and mail software -- otherwise you would just buy AOL or worse yet, MSN w/IE.

Remember, Apple's best selling computer to date was based around internet access -- I can't imagine them charging for what most people feel is a "core" function -- it's just shy of an OS at this point.
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of course, they charge for the OS. it's not just shy of an OS, but certainly so important to one that it should be part of it.

But it would be smart marketing to bundle stuff as "suites" rather than disparate apps -- as much as we criticize M$, they have done a good job with Office and people really like it. I would probably *not* pay for PowerPoint separately but use it every now and then.

Thoughts?
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I think that interconnecting apps is a very cool idea. thinking about this more, i don't see the point of making it a software suite separate from the OS. every OS out there in general use has a browser and mail client, and most have a chat client a la MSN messenger or AIM.

integrating these apps more fully (and linking address book to work COMPLETELY within mail.app instead of having to open it up to edit it) would be an awesome idea. it should be included in an OS update though, like 10.2.5 or 6, or 10.3 if they feel lazy. at any rate, Safari is beta, iChat is as good as beta, as many bugs as it has (probably more than Safari lol)... the only really solid app among the three is mail, and what a great app that is.

of course, all these apps are crying out for features. Internet explorer (PC i am thinking, i haven't used the Mac version) has more features than safari. AIM (windows) has many more features than iChat, and is an order of magnitude more stable, even on that *ugh* OS. both IE and AIM are free. I think apple needs to work on its 2 counterparts in particular, but i don't think that justifies charging for them. i think they should be ad-supported. but not like AIM. that's pathetic. Apple should recognize that these are some of the best ads supporting its OS, and expend resources to maintain those ads.
 
Re: Re: Re: The Facts are

Originally posted by iAndy

Another Thought !
Actually on reflection your comments make me wonder whether anyone has ever done an approximate component cost breakdown of an iMac, PM or PB ? A number of years ago I remember Iomega investors dissected a Zip drive to work out its approximate component cost and therefore profit margin. OK an iMac is a hell of a lot more complicated, but it might be an interesting exercise to approximate the cost of the "Apple component" of an iMac compared to all the included 3rd party components. As I have already seen a Japanese guys website where he dissected his new PB12" :eek: nothing would surprise me from some MacHeads ;)
Click to expand...

while such a dissection and analysis might be ok, it seems unfair. i mean, if i took apart a CD and added up the cost of the components, i wouldn't be near the 15$ it's clearly worth.. ok, bad example. if i bought a copy of OS X, analyzed the various parts, and tried to figure the profit margin from that, i would figure it's over 130%. you can't just take an apple computer apart and find out how much each part costs. you also have to factor in the cost of developing the design, of testing it, and so on. Apple is not just selling you a bucket of silcone, gold, plastic, and other assorted materials. they are selling you intellectual property. it's not as sensitive as CDs and software, as you can't just stick it in a replicator and have 2, but the intellectual property has a value too. to find apple's profit margin for a computer, i suspect you would have to look at how much they have put into R&D for everything pertaining to the development and production of that computer, and compare it to the net sales of the computer. why take one apart? that is most certainly going to be inaccurate.
 
I actually think they should charge for everything!

First of all, so many people become an instant skeptic. iLife was made that way for multiple reasons (most are pointed out here in the forum)

A) Ease of installation
B) Integration
C) Bandwidth Limitations
D) iDVD upgrades were ALREADY charged for
E) Profit vs Free Distribution (very minor)

Another reason is "press" and product placement. Apple can, in Apple Stores promote their OWN software in software sections at their stores and CompUSA's (and elsewhere) - some people don't even KNOW that they have these items on their computer or never use them.

I think Apple would be wise, with their next iApp, which most likely would be a video conferencing/possibly even dating/personals integration, bundle it with iCal, Address Book, Mail, Safari 1.0, Internet Connect, iChat, iSync Bluetooth/Modem/Ethernet/Internet?security Updates, even installs of Flash, Quicktime, Shockwave. Maybe throw in some bonus apps from third parties like bandwidth tests and LAN connect utilities or the cool Erricson Client software maybe Palm Pac and Missing Sync. Call it iAM or something, sell it for $49.00 - offer the current free apps for free.

And to anyone saying iChat and Safari (when mature) won't be worth it, you'll go somewhere else, do it. I'd pay in a heartbbeat for a CD like I mentioned above. These apps have have saved me more that 100x in time and ease of use. They should be continually bundled with new Macs to give the appearance of added purchase value.

I also think Apple will be releasing a similar AppleWorks/Keynote/FileMaker Lite Bundle
 
Re: reasonable to me

Originally posted by yzedf
i say that because you don't make money giving away free software.

they could offer a plan where you get free upgrades of iLife and iConnect (whatever they call it) for 12 months after the purchase of your new system.

apple is looking for revenue streams. offering kick ass software at good prices is one good way to do it.

think of all the dippy $10US apps out there that people buy, that don't really do much.

$80US to get all of your needs met, seems good to me. music, photos, movies, email, chat, internet etc that people actually want to use?

i am in. i have no problems supporting a company i believe in.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly.

Although I would rather they combine Safari, Mail, Address Book, iChat, iCal, and iSync to kick MS Outlook's [Entourage] A$$!

The new version of AppleWorks, or whatever they call it, will take care of MS Word & Excel!

Keynote is already in place to rival PowerPoint:)

Microsoft free in '03!!:D
 
Possibly true

If the next version of iChat offers video conferencing then maybe Apple needs to charge to cover the MP4 license fees. Anyway, I think a package like this is feasible if it includes the .Mac subscription and/or a new version of Appleworks.

It crossed my mind that maybe Apple is doing these packages to reduce the cost of major OS updates., After all most people complained about the cost of Jaguar, so soon after 10.1.
 
Re: What about this...

Originally posted by brogers
I would like to see iCal, Mail and Address Book put together in one app like Entourage or Outlook. It would be nice to see my calander from within Mail without having to launch another app or work with Address Book from iCal..etc. Does this make any sense at all???

Still would not see a need to charge for it though.
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Why not? To get the tight integration you speak of you have to resort to Entourage for $99.00.

I would gladly pay 1/3, or $30.00 for an Apple branded MS replacement. Or $50.00 if it included a video conferencing enabled iChat and iSync.
 
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