More Apple Packages?

[patman_Z]

open source quality

One problem with the "spit and shine of apple software" most of it is based on open source "linux software" safari is based on the khtml engine that powers konquerer, the also include bind, apache, sendmail, tcsh, sed, vi, awk, grep, gcc, perl, python, IPFW, samba, and a slew of others, and the darwin kernel is "open source" not in the sense that linux is, but a step in the right direction. You are right about Evo though, it does rock. Apple's use of aqua is what sets it apart from the *nices. I would be fooling myself if I thought that apple made all of the software that is included in OSX, if anything there is way less development time for MacOSX than MacOS9 since all of the free apps they use are maintained elsewhere and simply ported to run on the darwin kernel. Apple has done a great job at hiding what they are using for their "enhancements" such as the "connect to server" from finder and no mention of samba, or the "internet connection sharing" in the network part with no mention of ipfw. Don't be fooled though, that is what macOSX is using whether you would like to admit it or not.

 

[MorganX]

Re: open source quality

Originally posted by patman_Z
Don't be fooled though, that is what macOSX is using whether you would like to admit it or not.

I have no problem admitting it. But I won't use konqueror for free. I would be willing to pay "something" for safari when it's done. OSS is great. But to get a finished product, you're going to have to pay "someone."

 

[merges]

I am, frankly, amazed by the number of comments that imply Apple owes its customers for charging X number of dollars for its computers in the first place...

It's hard, out there in fantasy land, to imagine that Apple is a real company, with real people who come in at 8:30 or 9:00 or 10:00 in the morning, get a coffee, have meetings, write things (code, marketing copy, or otherwise), and go home to family in Silicon Valley (where, by the way, living costs are sky-high). These people are very bright and very talented, and they work hard to deliver to you the fine products you use today. And you know what? These people need to get paid to be able to support themselves and their families.

Oh, on top of that, Apple is a business with shareholders. It must make money.

Right now, Apple does give away a lot of great stuff. Terrific software, very useful, very usable, very cool. They don't give away everything though, and while the thought may not have occurred to some of you, this software costs a *lot* of money to make. Thousands upon thousands of person-hours go into making even the first small release of a small utility app. As you may have heard, time equals money.

Whether or not Apple decides to charge for any software that is currently free, keep in mind that if they don't make money, they can't afford to keep employing the same numbers of people. Less people is likely to hamper innovation; in other words, if you don't support Apple, monetarily, you will find yourself forced to support some other company that makes inferior products.

Apple's gotta make money to be able to employ the right people to be able to give you all the features you whine about and ask for (and fast too--can't wait longer than three months for a major new feature in the operating system, like videoconferencing; three months is *way* too long).

Support Apple.

[Side note one: Linux isn't even *close* to ready for prime time; one shouldn't compare it to Mac OS X or Windows.]

[Side note two: Have you ever wondered why Windows seems so cheap? I have. And I know the answer: Piracy.]

[Side note three: You want the functionality provided by iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, Mail, iCal, iSync, Address Book, Safari, iDVD, et cetera, et cetera? But you don't want to pay Apple, say, $100, should they choose to charge that amount for all of those (and who knows what else is up their sleeve...)? Be prepared to fork out hundreds of dollars for that level of integration, support, and quality craftsmanship; and a lot of time troubleshooting and training.]

 

[yzedf]

Originally posted by 3777
I can't believe there are people here encouraging Apple to charge for a web browser and e-mail client. HELLO? It comes with OSX? It comes with a Computer? If you want to make money then charge for new innovative programs, some of you people are either Apple employees or just nuts, either way greed will wreck Apple if they're not careful.

P.S. Maybe some of you like itools, but it's not for me. That said, iTools is at least something, charging for a web browser and e-mailer which SHOULD BE INCLUDED in any Operating System? GIVE ME A FRIGAN BREAK!!!!!

If it comes to this then I will move entirely to Linux

I seem to remember people being upset over email/internet/music/movie/etc apps being bundled by M$ with their OS over the years.

Put up or shut up!!!!!!!

Either bundling is ok, or not. I don't give a flying fig who does it.

 

[shadowfax]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Facts are

Originally posted by yzedf


Please understand, there is no such thing as a 100% margin. That means it cost $0 to sell it. That can't happen.

OK, thanks. never taken economics or anything like that where i would learn, i was just implying that the OS X CD is worth about a dollar, and i hadn't considered the value of the box... but anyways, i was saying that if the CD is worth 1$ (and you assume anything over this value is a profit) and you pay 130... ah, heck, that's a 1300% return, lol. but also 130-fold which is what i had in mind. i don't understand the concept of an actual profit margin though. i just assumed that you have to account for the value of the intellectual property included in a product.

 

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by yzedf


I seem to remember people being upset over email/internet/music/movie/etc apps being bundled by M$ with their OS over the years.

Put up or shut up!!!!!!!

Either bundling is ok, or not. I don't give a flying fig who does it.

i don't think they have ever complained about microsoft offering free mail/IE/media player. that's always been a great idea. but meshing it literally with the OS so that the thing literally breaks if you remove IE (which you can't do), and making it impossible, or nearrly so, to make OTHER 3rd party counterparts your default for a given task, that has always been frowned upon and the issue of many a debate.

bundling basic stuff with an OS is widely accepted and almost universally done. i can't think of any OS that doesn't bundle a mail client and internet browser for free. bundled chat programs are less common, but MS certainly does this, and i imagine there is something like GAIM and certainly IRC stuff on any release of linux.

 

[patman_Z]

would it really make it better though?

regardless of the the OSS tangent that seemed to happen (really doesn't matter). I don't see how apple charging for things that are currently free right now makes the apps any better. I don't even think it is true because what is Jobs going to say at the next keynote with a new OS "we removed all these apps that were free, and now you have to buy them".....unlikely. He was pretty proud of the 150 features added in X.2 and I don't think he would boast a new "streamlined" version of the OS that didn't have any iApps. Even with iLife the only real thing that changed was they started charging for iDVD. The others are still free, and quite cool for those of us without DVD-R's. I also think that safari is a response to no IE updates besides the security fix a while ago. To each his own on the views of open source, I seem to do quite well with it since I started using it about 6 years ago. It has come a long way from the clunkky, nearly impossible X-configurations to really easy point and click installs and initial configs. Just my opinion.

Patman_Z

 

[crossed-over]

All 4 it

I think it would help bring in more revenue to our beloved Apple. I, for one, would have no problem spending $30 for iChat alone. Many other iChat users would probably feel the same way once they tried going back to AIM or Messenger. (My peecee friends envy my Mac just because of iChat.)

As for Mail, I was one of those whiners complaining about the $99 for .mac just so I could continue to use Mail. I was hoping that Apple would make a new bundle that included Mail and a few other things so I wouldn't have to fork out $99 a year to keep my very cool mac.com email address.

And on top of it, Safari... I don't use IE anymore. I have evolved. Safari is by far the most productive, "tool" i have used to browse the internet. I say tool, because this program literally does the job i want it to do, and stays out of the way of what i am concerned with. True, Safari still has trouble with many sites, but I am sure by the time they would release this bundle, Safari would have most of these bugs resolved.

So I say, "Great! Go for it Apple." It's only $30, and potentially, that could save me $70 from .mac. And if it doesn't, after all it's only money.

Adam

 

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by merges
I am, frankly, amazed by the number of comments that imply Apple owes its customers for charging X number of dollars for its computers in the first place...
It's hard, out there in fantasy land, to imagine that Apple is a real company, with real people who come in at 8:30 or 9:00 or 10:00 in the morning, get a coffee, have meetings, write things (code, marketing copy, or otherwise), and go home to family in Silicon Valley (where, by the way, living costs are sky-high). These people are very bright and very talented, and they work hard to deliver to you the fine products you use today. And you know what? These people need to get paid to be able to support themselves and their families.

Oh, those starving basketball players! better not insinuate that they have no right to charge you for their stuff what may be twice in your minds! imagine that! you're sick, sick!

Oh, on top of that, Apple is a business with shareholders. It must make money.

You couldn't be more right.

Right now, Apple does give away a lot of great stuff. Terrific software, very useful, very usable, very cool. They don't give away everything though, and while the thought may not have occurred to some of you, this software costs a *lot* of money to make. Thousands upon thousands of person-hours go into making even the first small release of a small utility app. As you may have heard, time equals money.

and girls = money x time
therefore girls = money^2
and since money = evil^(1/2)
girls = (evil^[1/2])^2
therefore girls = evil.

OK, so apple should charge, because time is money. that doesn't make it a good idea, as many if not most people will just not use the software they can get alsewhere for free. why use safari when you can use chimera? honestly, even if safari surpasses chimera, it's never going to be worth 10$ more. chimera does pretty much everything that 99.9% of users need to do browsing the net.

Whether or not Apple decides to charge for any software that is currently free, keep in mind that if they don't make money, they can't afford to keep employing the same numbers of people. Less people is likely to hamper innovation; in other words, if you don't support Apple, monetarily, you will find yourself forced to support some other company that makes inferior products.

Apple's gotta make money to be able to employ the right people to be able to give you all the features you whine about and ask for (and fast too--can't wait longer than three months for a major new feature in the operating system, like videoconferencing; three months is *way* too long).

Support Apple.

yes, support apple. Apple's problem isn't whether they should charge for software; they need a larger user base. of course, the laws of supply and demand apply here. as in, if they supply for a price a piece of software that people demand be free, people won't buy it. there are and will be free alternatives, unless they try to go MS and monopolize.

[Side note one: Linux isn't even *close* to ready for prime time; one shouldn't compare it to Mac OS X or Windows.]

What? define your terms. linux is in prime time on the server market, and with people who *gasp* know what they're doing on a computer. RedHat and Linux-Mandrake, to name a few, are FULL-FEATURED OSes with perfectly valid comparisons to both OS X and Windows. the fact that its features may be more difficult (read: different) to sort out and so on than Windows' or OS X's, doesn't mean it's not ripe for comparison.

[Side note two: Have you ever wondered why Windows seems so cheap? I have. And I know the answer: Piracy.]

Windows is expensive. 300$ expensive. and it's really not provable that it is because of piracy. look at the record industry. i think that MP3 sharing arose because of gross overpricing. and nevertheless, sales remained healthy during the golden days of napster. when napster shut down, sales began to decline much faster than before. Microsoft makes, what, an 85% profit margin on Windows? i have heard that, can't confirm. they make a considerable amount. Bill Gates is personally one of the wealthiest men in the world; microsoft is not "about to go under because of piracy and thus must charge exhorbitant amounts for it's [uninnovative] OS." They have a monopoly and actively take great advantage of that fact.

[Side note three: You want the functionality provided by iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, Mail, iCal, iSync, Address Book, Safari, iDVD, et cetera, et cetera? But you don't want to pay Apple, say, $100, should they choose to charge that amount for all of those (and who knows what else is up their sleeve...)? Be prepared to fork out hundreds of dollars for that level of integration, support, and quality craftsmanship; and a lot of time troubleshooting and training.]

You know, i went to the OS X site lately, and the ENTIRE advertising pitch for it consists of:
UNIX based (that was free for them)
Quartz (ingenious, but not worth 129$)
the apps you mentioned. have you seen OS X ads in magazines? they have pictures of iChat, Sherlock, iPhoto, iMovie.... how are you going to advertise OS X when suddenly all the best reasons to buy it are sold separately? buy os x, and for another 100$, you can get all these apps that were free yesterday. hmm. good idea.

like i said, apple won't [shouldn't] do this.

 

[shadowfax]

Re: All 4 it

Originally posted by crossed-over
And if it doesn't, after all it's only money.

Adam

only money? did you forget that the 90s are over? people [sensible people] aren't blowing cash needlessly like they used to.

a fool and his money are soon parted (partying, says deskmod).

 

[patman_Z]

Yipee!!!

well said shadowfax, I see the source is with you. One thing kind of unrelated is about the darwin kernel for X86 (implying OSX on "windows machines") I downloaded it, installed it, and was kind of dissapointed. It was pretty slow on a P4 1.3Ghz, and on top of that I got freezes without core dumps or any syslog entries. this was the version 6.01 by the way. Apple did however provide a 3com 905 driver (previously they only had intel 82xxx network card support). but despite that I see safari as more of a path away from Microsoft than anything. The less apple depends on M$ the easier it will be to release OSX on Intel. I know that if they do release that it won't be for a long while, I heard that it would be on par with the palladium release (Hardware crypto thingy that means M$ decides what you can run on your machine). Also something to be said about OSX configurations, if you choose the UFS filesystem, then iMovie will not export movies to quicktime. It will look like it is and then the movie won't be there. This is because iMovie writes blah.mov~ and ~ means something different to UFS than HFS+. try it if you dont believe me

Patman_Z

 

[merges]

What? define your terms. linux is in prime time on the server market, and with people who *gasp* know what they're doing on a computer. RedHat and Linux-Mandrake, to name a few, are FULL-FEATURED OSes with perfectly valid comparisons to both OS X and Windows. the fact that its features may be more difficult (read: different) to sort out and so on than Windows' or OS X's, doesn't mean it's not ripe for comparison.

-----

I was, of course, referring to the dearth of actually usable applications for the vast majority of users. Computers aren't like race cars, they're not even like stick-shift cars, they're not even cars anymore that only trained people can use. They are telephones, televisions, light switches.

Except in certain cases, of course, but those race-car-Linux-types aren't depending on iChat and iMovie.

Think of who these apps are for, what these apps do. Linux is useless in comparison. Windows is a big, expensive, tedious stretch. And Apple? They can happily advertise Mac OS X as the platform on which you use all of these great products featured in the advertisement, charge or no.

 

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by merges

I was, of course, referring to the dearth of actually usable applications for the vast majority of users. Computers aren't like race cars, they're not even like stick-shift cars, they're not even cars anymore that only trained people can use. They are telephones, televisions, light switches.

Except in certain cases, of course, but those race-car-Linux-types aren't depending on iChat and iMovie.

Think of who these apps are for, what these apps do. Linux is useless in comparison. Windows is a big, expensive, tedious stretch. And Apple? They can happily advertise Mac OS X as the platform on which you use all of these great products featured in the advertisement, charge or no.

I was being slightly sarcastic. i know they reach different audiences, and i wasn't serious about my bash of users who can't use linux, but i'll be perfectly honest--GIMP may not be the most useable program, but MANY linux programs are easily useable. OpenOffice comes to mind. there's a learning curve on every OS. windows would, in a number of ways, be very difficult to learn for society as a whole if everyone were used to Redhat. Redhat is not like a race car any more than OS X is. you can jump into a terminal and turn your OS X into a race car just as easily as redhat, opening a terminal, using developer tools, enabling root, and all sorts of other stuff i can't even imagine. this is why many linux users are drooling over OS X. If you haven't, you should go try KDE before you start to argue again. It's very user friendly, and there are many welcome comparisons between its features and OS X's. mind you, i am not saying it is AS GOOD AS OS X. if that were the criterion for comparison, i personally think you couldn't compare any OS to OS X. but you said you couldn't compare linux to Windows and OS X, and let me reiterate that YOU CAN and I DO.

examples: KDE has a web browser that is good enough for apple to use as a code base. GNOME has GAIM, a chat client (not a very good one, but hey). There are numerous mail apps for linux, not to mention office productivity apps and so on. Linux does not consist simply of Apache, Console, and a hundred thousand apps that are utterly inaccessible to the average user.

 

[Telomar]

Originally posted by 3777


Your talking about a web browser and e-mail program!!! These are included in ANY reputable operating system. And if you think screwing people is going to help .mac .....another royal flop .........oh man

Apple will package them with new computers just like they have iLife. Apple packages .Mac trials with new computers even so the argument of them not being packaged with new computers won't work.

It'd be prefereable to selling them as individual packages though. That's not a statement on whether they should do it only that packaging their now free apps into .Mac would make them considerably more money in after sales revenue.

 

[patman_Z]

some people just don't know......

race cars, computers, toasters? all the same. I see your point, although wait nope, I don't. Useable apps you must mean like office? OpenOffice 1.0 works pretty well and does the same job in the same way as M$ office, and doesn't need a babbling paperclip to do it. Mozilla, konquerer, galeon, all browse the web, all in the same way as IE. Evolution is an outlook replacement, Gimp does photos (pictures to the layperson) and xmms is a fine mp3/ogg player. all of these come with, and are just as easy and just as well as any other program that does the same thing, with the added bonus that most are multi platform, and written portably. If you are going to say something negative, at least try it before you go yapping about how it sucks, and is not ready for primetime. Guess what this server is running?

Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) mod_gzip/1.3.19.1a mod_log_bytes/0.3 mod_bwlimited/1.0 PHP/4.2.2 FrontPage/5.0.2.2510 mod_ssl/2.8.9 OpenSSL/0.9.6b on Linux

now what is this about not primetime?

 

[Centris 650]

Ok, my 2 cents.

I thought Mail and iChat were already bundled together...in OS X! Check the OS X site. It's a feature of the OS.

Let's just say that they decide to charge for upgrading Safari, Mail and iChat in one CD. (Others have posted this idea) I don't agree but if they DID then it should only be for major upgrades like going from Safari 2 to Safari 3. If you bought Safari 2 and 2.01 or 2.9 is released then you should be able to download the upgrade.
If you had to pay for Safari 2.01 and already had 2 that would bite.

 

[shadowfax]

Re: some people just don't know......

Originally posted by patman_Z
race cars, computers, toasters? all the same. I see your point, although wait nope, I don't. Useable apps you must mean like office? OpenOffice 1.0 works pretty well and does the same job in the same way as M$ office, and doesn't need a babbling paperclip to do it. Mozilla, konquerer, galeon, all browse the web, all in the same way as IE. Evolution is an outlook replacement, Gimp does photos (pictures to the layperson) and xmms is a fine mp3/ogg player. all of these come with, and are just as easy and just as well as any other program that does the same thing, with the added bonus that most are multi platform, and written portably. If you are going to say something negative, at least try it before you go yapping about how it sucks, and is not ready for primetime. Guess what this server is running?

Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) mod_gzip/1.3.19.1a mod_log_bytes/0.3 mod_bwlimited/1.0 PHP/4.2.2 FrontPage/5.0.2.2510 mod_ssl/2.8.9 OpenSSL/0.9.6b on Linux

now what is this about not primetime?

good call, but could you quote who you're responding to? i was a little bit confused for a second (and then removed of all doubt fairly quickly). the quote button under each post is a very useful tool

linux, as i have been saying, is just as powerful as any other OS (why might OS X be based on it?), and it has fairly easy apps aplenty, as you so nicely restated for me, with much more technical accuracy.

 

[3777]

Originally posted by Centris 650
Ok, my 2 cents.

I thought Mail and iChat were already bundled together...in OS X! Check the OS X site. It's a feature of the OS.

Let's just say that they decide to charge for upgrading Safari, Mail and iChat in one CD. (Others have posted this idea) I don't agree but if they DID then it should only be for major upgrades like going from Safari 2 to Safari 3. If you bought Safari 2 and 2.01 or 2.9 is released then you should be able to download the upgrade.
If you had to pay for Safari 2.01 and already had 2 that would bite.

That's what i've been saying. I paid for iChat, ect..... when I bought OSX!!! Not the Hardware....... now as for updates, if Apple really planned on charging for updates then their software updater which is a big feature for them .......especially when winning over "switchers" .....is then completely useless. I am telling you common sense shows there is something seriously messed up with the Spymac story.

Now as for anyone who says they would gladly pay for iCHat and e-mail.... YOU ALREADY DID WHEN YOU PAID FOR OSX!!!!! Duh......... who in their right mind would gladly pay for something TWICE??? If that's the case and you love apple so much then let them set up a pay pal program for these nit wits.

 

[iAndy]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
Windows is expensive. 300$ expensive. and it's really not provable that it is because of piracy. look at the record industry. i think that MP3 sharing arose because of gross overpricing. and nevertheless, sales remained healthy during the golden days of napster. when napster shut down, sales began to decline much faster than before.

Certainly I agree with about gross overpricing encouraging piracy. When I moved out here to Hong Kong 10 years ago, pirate VCDs were everywhere. The government agencies repeatedly said that they would stamp it out. It never happened - for more than a couple of days. What did stamp it out, was when film distributors got less greedy. Today big outfits like HMV are selling VCDs at US$2-3 - guess what, pirate VCDs have all but dissapeared. But DVDs - well that's another cycle we have to go through...

But as for Napster, surely the recession and dotcom fallout had something to do with sales declining?

Originally posted by Shadowfax
microsoft is not "about to go under because of piracy and thus must charge exhorbitant amounts for it's [uninnovative] OS."

Absolutely right. Actually I remember talking to an MS product manager at a FoxPro Devcon some years ago about the piracy situation in SE Asia. He said that MS were unofficially turning a blind eye to it for now, because 90% of developers in the region (then) were learning and using their product. Then they expected to clean up on legally licensed software once better copyright laws were established. Meanwhile they bitched like hell publicly about all the $B's that they were loosing in the region...

Originally posted by Shadowfax
...They [MS] have a monopoly and actively take great advantage of that fact.

Maybe ironic, but isn't that what Apple are also trying to do here?

 

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by iAndy
But as for Napster, surely the recession and dotcom fallout had something to do with sales declining?

yes, you're right. It's highly debatable in the napster case. but, as you say, the more incentive there is to steal, the more it happens. when that incentive is unjustifiable, i don't think anyone should be surprised.

Absolutely right. Actually I remember talking to an MS product manager at a FoxPro Devcon some years ago about the piracy situation in SE Asia. He said that MS were unofficially turning a blind eye to it for now, because 90% of developers in the region (then) were learning and using their product. Then they expected to clean up on legally licensed software once better copyright laws were established. Meanwhile they bitched like hell publicly about all the $B's that they were loosing in the region...

Maybe ironic, but isn't that what Apple are also trying to do here?

well, like many of us have said, this doesn't look like apple is actually going to do this. apple isn't shutting out other browsers, they are trying to make theirs the best so people want to use it. i don't think they will ever charge for this stuff (mail, iChat, safari).. that would be anticompetitive (as in, they know they would lose).

 

[fixyourthinking]

Originally posted by Shadowfax


yes, you're right. It's highly debatable in the napster case. but, as you say, the more incentive there is to steal, the more it happens. when that incentive is unjustifiable, i don't think anyone should be surprised.


Completely the wrong assertion. The MAJORITY of those that use Napster/File Sharing Services never would have bought the items to begin with. So, they are neither stealing, nor are they reducing sales numbers.

Before, they simply borrowed from a friend, went to their buddy at the music store that would let them "borrow" some stuff in the used bin for a night, or in the case of software, went on the local network and took it or bought hard drives, or used the "family's install".

The real reason for decline in sales is CRAP. This isn't a justification. If there's anyone that's an advocate for shareware, software, and artists rights and property, it's me. A partial reason, is a slower than "late 90's" economy. The economy slowdown, is due to the bastardization of economic policies by Clinton, and further slowed due to 9/11.

Clinton was a BIG advocate of DMCA and anything MY state Senator would throw his way.

My analogy/example is; Microsoft Word is the defacto it is because of piracy. (I just bought a new computer, I'm gonna borrow my brother's copy of Office to install on it) AND How would people even know who The WiseGuys (Start The Commotion), TelepopMusik (Just Breathe), and Dirty Vegas (Days Go By) are without filesharing? Those were some of the biggest hits of 2002. How? People typed, "Mitsubishi Commercial" into file sharing services. If you don't beleive this is how these artists are discovered, download Limewire, click on the "monitor tab" - one out of every 15-20 searches is "Mitsubishi Commercial". Now, compare this to me, going in to even a national record chain, a few days after the song came out, from a commercial, and say, "Do you have that song from the new Mitsubishi Commercial?" They look at you funny or say, "howzit go?" They NEVER have it or don't know it!!! However, sales for these groups SINGLES were almost 6 MILLION - not to mention all three have been on Jay Leno (and other shows) and get greater headliner pricing for concerts.

 

[MorganX]

Originally posted by adzoox
How would people even know who The WiseGuys (Start The Commotion

This is how I was introduced to the Wiseguys.

 

[GPTurismo]

I wasn't saying that they make you pay for those apps, I was saying that they stil have the ones available for download, still available for download, but offer Packages with those apps and maybe a few extras on a cd for like 20 bucks to generate a little cash...

::shrugs::

 

[gaijinjim]

Re: I can see it now...

Originally posted by bignumbers
1. Apple releases free web browser and mail client. Check.

2. 3rd-party companies slow or halt development of free web browser and email clients due to Apple including them for free with the OS. Check. (No OE for X, etc.)

3. Apple starts charging for browser and mail client. Users have fewer free quality tools than they did before. This is progress?

Okay, if everything I have read on the web is true the above won't happen.

Apparently, Apple has released the html engine, if I remember correctly, it's called WebCore as opensource or a variation of it.

Point one: The makers of OmniWeb are looking to use WebCore as its HTML engine and they would focus on its interface.

Point Two: Apparently, Intuit, makers of Quicken and QuickBooks, are looking to use WebCore as its HTML engine in its apps.

The next bundled software will more than likely be an office suite. Keynote made its debut. Now comes the updated/vervised version of AppleWorks, more than likely bundled under a different name. Forget the name of the progammer who joined Apple last year that was instrumental in another office suite; forget which one.

Don't worry people you are more than likely getting upset about nothing. Since Steve Jobs has returned the inital innovation, desire and quest of the best has returned to Apple. Could you imagine Apple Stores five years ago? I couldn't.

Apple will be around and won't alientated its customers. If they did, a lot would be flocking to Linux once it gets its kinks worked out. You may not know but the lastest Red Hat version 8.0 doesn't include mp3 support. You have to install it yourself.

Apple will do you right!!!!

 

[fixyourthinking]

The point of charging for bundles is NOT to charge

The point of bundles is not really to charge, it's to market them. Apple can have their software sitting on shelves next to "the other guys" - people with low bandwidth can buy a bundle of Apps that take forever to download. I think Apple should sell $19.95-$49.95 packages of everything - the bonus will be one new app or one app that makes up MOST of the cost of the package, as iDVD is. Jobs was speaking from the heart when he said that iDVD is charged for because it's so big. It is a burden on Apple Servers and a burden on customers (in iDVD's case even broadband users).