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More Apple Packages?

Good idea

Safari still has a long way to go before considering it as a mainstream browser.

Mail too similary has some way to go.

iChat needs voice and video conferencing, Chat Rooms built in as well as support for multiple chat protocols (AIM, Jabber, MSN, ICQ etc).

If apple does all this and then If apple can tightly integrate Safari, Mail and iChat; it does make sense for them to sell it albeit at a nominal charge. A nominal charge can be the cost of making a CD for them and $1 above the cost which should not come to more than $10 max. At the same time they have to allow free downloads and free upgrades so that users who do have the bandwidth and or do not want to pay for it can download it for free.
 
I'm not saying SpyMac is right, but they reported that iTools would be upgraded and turned into a pay service long before that ever happened.

If those apps because pay only I would probably find myself using Proteus, Chimera and Entourage. (which I do anyways)
 
If I were Apple rather than selling them solely as packages I'd distribute them free with .Mac. Encourages subscription growth, which is really a much more promising income source.
 
I can see it now...

1. Apple releases free web browser and mail client. Check.

2. 3rd-party companies slow or halt development of free web browser and email clients due to Apple including them for free with the OS. Check. (No OE for X, etc.)

3. Apple starts charging for browser and mail client. Users have fewer free quality tools than they did before. This is progress?
 
Re: I can see it now...

Originally posted by bignumbers
1. Apple releases free web browser and mail client. Check.

2. 3rd-party companies slow or halt development of free web browser and email clients due to Apple including them for free with the OS. Check. (No OE for X, etc.)

3. Apple starts charging for browser and mail client. Users have fewer free quality tools than they did before. This is progress?
Click to expand...

Are you one of those conspiracy theorist or what?

This and the spymac item is A LOAD OF RUBBISH.

I don't know why this has made it onto page 1 though (it should be on macrumors page n, where n is more than 2....).


NicoMan
 
hrm

I don't think this is believeable. First off, I rarely hear of anything from SpyMac that turns out to be true... often semi-true, or partly-true, but seldom right-on.

Secondly, with the exception of Safari these apps are considered part of the OS - not add-ons. Case-in-point, Mail and iChat's websites on the Apple site are nestled under the OS X mantra.

Meanwhile, all the iLife programs have their own www.apple.com/iwhatever/ page.

While Apple may do this, their "get rid of the free stuff" theory would seem to back it up with the demise of iTools and all that. I don't know though, these seem to fundamental and their price should be included with the cost of the OS.

The OS I bought twice, by the way, 10.0.4 and 10.2 ;-)
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: The Facts are

Originally posted by Shadowfax


while such a dissection and analysis might be ok, it seems unfair. i mean, if i took apart a CD and added up the cost of the components, i wouldn't be near the 15$ it's clearly worth.. ok, bad example. if i bought a copy of OS X, analyzed the various parts, and tried to figure the profit margin from that, i would figure it's over 130%.
Click to expand...

Please understand, there is no such thing as a 100% margin. That means it cost $0 to sell it. That can't happen.
 
Re: What about this...

Originally posted by brogers
I would like to see iCal, Mail and Address Book put together in one app like Entourage or Outlook. It would be nice to see my calander from within Mail without having to launch another app or work with Address Book from iCal..etc. Does this make any sense at all???

Still would not see a need to charge for it though.
Click to expand...
I don't think it should be one application. This discourages people making a mail program that works with the OS X address book for instance.

What I can see is a tighter integration (Like iLife has) - that is whan you are in program X, you automatically start up program Y if it is needed. I see no problem keeping them as seperate applications. You just want them highly integrated which is fine.

I don't want one application that does everything. It makes it harder to test and release new features if it's one application. Therefore keeping them seperate enables easier bug fixes and feature additions.
 
Re: Re: Re: The Facts are

Originally posted by iAndy
Now if you had said something like "A PC is cheaper as a result of millions upon millions being made (economies of scale) AND the cut throat hardware margins currently existing in the PC market" I could have agreed with you.

But "inferior materials and manufacturing processes"...
<RANT ON> OK they put them together into a more beautifully packaged whole than most PC manufacturers, but please don't try to convince me that the Intel P4 in my Dell is made from inferior materials or manufacturing process to the G4 in my iMac
<RANT OFF>


I agree with most of your statements, even that Intel is making quality chips, but I will say that I believe that the other major components that PC companies put in their computers are inferior often times. Hard drives, modems, mother board construction, etc. There has to be a reason that I have many Mac friends that have never had to replace a hard drive, motherboard, modem, etc. However, I have a wife that has had three motherboards go, a hard drive, as well as two sisters that have had to purchase modems, hard drives, and mother boards for their PC's as well. This is what I mean by cheaper components.

I also mis-spoke earlier about Apple making everything. What I meant is Apple is in control of the manufacturing of everything...they chose the quality of products they do buy from suppliers and it is to their exact specifications. The components are not just some off the shelf component that someone has produced and is selling the heck out of just cause it is cheap...(both $ and quality)
Click to expand...
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Facts are

Originally posted by yzedf


Please understand, there is no such thing as a 100% margin. That means it cost $0 to sell it. That can't happen.
Click to expand...

Actually there is...sort of...not really....

If a prduct costs $50 to make then selling it at $100 is a 100% mark-up

If the total selling price of a product is $100 and you want to know the margin they
get you would say it was %50 margin

People often confuse margin with mark-up which is what I think happened here.
 
Re: uh huh

Originally posted by andyduncan
next bundle: Finder, System Preferences and Terminal.app
Click to expand...

-Fricken Hilarious!

I understand Apple needing to charge for software in order to make money, and I even support the idea. But don't charge for those programs. Everyone has become used to having their browser, mail client, and instant messaging for free.

I can see something like iLife, where these programs are still free to download, but have one more valuable application (similar to iDVD) that you can only get by buying the package. That way we're all happy.
 
I can't believe there are people here encouraging Apple to charge for a web browser and e-mail client. HELLO? It comes with OSX? It comes with a Computer? If you want to make money then charge for new innovative programs, some of you people are either Apple employees or just nuts, either way greed will wreck Apple if they're not careful.

P.S. Maybe some of you like itools, but it's not for me. That said, iTools is at least something, charging for a web browser and e-mailer which SHOULD BE INCLUDED in any Operating System? GIVE ME A FRIGAN BREAK!!!!!

If it comes to this then I will move entirely to Linux:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Telomar
If I were Apple rather than selling them solely as packages I'd distribute them free with .Mac. Encourages subscription growth, which is really a much more promising income source.
Click to expand...

Your talking about a web browser and e-mail program!!! These are included in ANY reputable operating system. And if you think screwing people is going to help .mac .....another royal flop .........oh man
 
Originally posted by Centris 650
They aren't THAT greedy are they?
Click to expand...

Greed or need. Apple needs to keep growing sales. If it doesn't how long will it be able to develop new cutting edge devices that don't sell much?

Clearly, Apple needs revenues, just look at RAM pricing.

I'd rather see them charge a little for these applets, than what they're doing with RAM. :mad:

I'm delaying my iMac purchase till the end of the month. I want one, but I'm having a tough time giving in to the RAM situation. That's total BS. I want to support Apple and I'm willing to pay a little extra for the design and innovation, but the memory pricing is a little over the edge for me.
 
Remember 10.1?

10.1 was too big for download, or so they said. Using the Up-To-Date program (they still have Up-To-Date, right?), if you bought a Mac or OSX within a specified time, it was free at any Apple reseller or store if you walked in. Also, it was $19.95 in S&H direct from Apple, but that $19.95 also got you a developer CD.

I think bundling large updates into CD form is a good idea for now. Not everyone is buzzing along on a cable or DSL connection. Charging more than what it cost to physically make the CDs is a bad idea, and ethically wrong.

The iApps were promised as being one with the OS. Even iSync and ...(there was another one) were promised but delayed; they were implied as being one with the OS.

Also, Apple is making more than 50% markup on a $129 Jaguar package. The student discount brought it to $80 for me and teachers are still getting it free. iLife on the other hand costs a teacher $15.

Also, software (and music, for that matter) is unlike physical merchandise when you're talking about profit margins. If it costs, for instance, $10,000 a year to pay the programmers to write a $100 application, and it costs $10 per unit for pressing the CD and distribution, royalties, etc. and you spend $5000 on advertising in a year, once you sell about 165 units, you're making $90 pure profit on that application per unit.
 
Somebody at Spymac finally posted something that makes sense. He said Apple will probably try to integrate the different apps into one big program, and make one large file available for free download, or package / sell it to those people who either don't want to or don't have the connection to download what would probably be one large file. Now that makes at least some sense.

edit: same as what above poster said as well:D
 
Re: uh huh

Originally posted by andyduncan
next bundle: Finder, System Preferences and Terminal.app
Click to expand...

ha ha ha!
Well, all I can say is if they start selling bundles, then OSX better drop in price to about $40.

Then you can buy each$30 module you want to add.

I recently switched from Entourage to MAIL because I figured sooner or later I would phase out Office, so why not make the switch now and get used to the MAIL interface.

Well, MAIL is OK, but it still lacks a lot of nice features in Entourage, even simple things like being able to assign signatures to specific e-mail accounts BEFORE you write an e-mail. And the ADDRESS BOOK is pretty lame. When you hit ADD SENDER TO ADDRESS BOOK, Address book should OPEN, and let you edit the person's info, and their should be easy cataegries like WORK, FAMILY, and FRIENDS you can assign without having to manually create a new address group, then drag those contacts into it, and then make rules in MAIL to color code thos address in the display window.

Safari seems fine, the new release is good so far, but if it came to paying for Safari and using IE for free, I am going with IE. Safari doesn't yet offer any advntages over IE. Unless Apple is hoping Microsoft dros development of IE now that Safari is coming and it would be the only game in town so it can charge.

I don't use iChat.

So in conclusion, if I have to pay $100 for Keynote, $30 for MAIL, $80 for Appleworks, I will probably just keep upgrading Office for half that price.

(Although I DID just notice Safari isscrolling pages MUCH more smoothly than IE.)

OSX for $40 would be great because as a pro user I buy all their DVD Studio and Final Cut products, I don't need all the consumer versions in my OSX jacking up the price.

If apple is going to go the Microsoft route and gouge people, might as well also offer PRO and CONSUMER versions of the OS.
 
Originally posted by MorganX


Greed or need. Apple needs to keep growing sales. If it doesn't how long will it be able to develop new cutting edge devices that don't sell much?
Click to expand...

Apple still makes it's money from hardware sales, and if their hardware keeps getting slower than PCs, the only to reason to get a MAC is because they come with all this amazing free software. On PC's you have to pay a 3rd party for each video editing /dvd making, mail program you want.

Tell me again why my dad would spend $700 more on an Apple PC than a faster Windows PC if he had to spend just as much on additional software? We graphics users have a bizarre love/hate relationship with our Macs, mainly Love.

But joe consumer needs a REASON to get a mac. It would never occur to me to buy a Windows machine, but most people are not like me, and probably you.

Apple will make money buy selling hardware which comes with great FREE software.

then end.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: The Facts are

I agree with most of your statements, even that Intel is making quality chips, but I will say that I believe that the other major components that PC companies put in their computers are inferior often times. Hard drives, modems, mother board construction, etc. There has to be a reason that I have many Mac friends that have never had to replace a hard drive, motherboard, modem, etc. However, I have a wife that has had three motherboards go, a hard drive, as well as two sisters that have had to purchase modems, hard drives, and mother boards for their PC's as well. This is what I mean by cheaper components.
[/B]
Click to expand...

You're more right than you think about this. Go to any PC hardware site and look up "Capacitor leaking". You'd be shocked to find out how lousy the quality of capacitors are on cheap motherboards. They leak, cause stability problems, and sometimes even cause total meltdown of components.

I should know, I've been there.
 
linux still runs on macs

If apple is going to charge for everything that was included in Jaguar, then why bother using mac os? so we will end up with :
OSXI=129.00
iLife =49.00
iBasics=29.00
iUsability=19.00
iDarwin=59.00
iPod software = 39.00
airport software =39.00
in Linux everything is included, nice email clients, browsers, Window managers, Graphics software, and it is all free, and all updates are free. I like OSX but I don't want to spend $1000 for what I get for free now. On the other hand, if they are releasing all this for windows.... that is different.... that would rule.

Patman_Z
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Facts are

Originally posted by rugby


You're more right than you think about this. Go to any PC hardware site and look up "Capacitor leaking". You'd be shocked to find out how lousy the quality of capacitors are on cheap motherboards. They leak, cause stability problems, and sometimes even cause total meltdown of components.

I should know, I've been there.
Click to expand...

I've been in the IT industry for 14 years and have never experience a leaky capacitor on a PC motherboard. From the cheapest Shuttle's to SuperMicro and Intel server boards. Never even heard of it.

I don't rely much on "hardware" sites. I find most of their findings and commentary to be out of sync with my real world experiences.
 
Re: linux still runs on macs

Originally posted by patman_Z
If apple is going to charge for everything that was included in Jaguar, then why bother using mac os? so we will end up with :
OSXI=129.00
iLife =49.00
iBasics=29.00
iUsability=19.00
iDarwin=59.00
iPod software = 39.00
airport software =39.00
in Linux everything is included, nice email clients, browsers, Window managers, Graphics software, and it is all free, and all updates are free. I like OSX but I don't want to spend $1000 for what I get for free now. On the other hand, if they are releasing all this for windows.... that is different.... that would rule.

Patman_Z
Click to expand...

I would rather pay a little for the spit and polish of Apple software than settle for the Linux projects. Other than Evolution, I have found no Linux software finished enough for me. IMO software on Linux for consumer consumption is still very much hobby-like.
 
I personally would like to see them keep everything the way they have it now for the iApps, but with a cd to get all the other apps for 19.99 or 29.99 with a few extras.

ie,

everything for free to download except iDVD and have

iLife for 49.99
iDVD
iMovie
iTunes
iPhoto

Web & Personal (some cool iName would be good) for 19.99
Mail.app (change it to iMail :S)
Address Book
iCal
Safari
something extra that isn't available on the web

iDeveloper for 19.99
Developer Tools
X11
something extra that isn't available on the web.

So what do you guys think?
 
Originally posted by GPTurismo
I personally would like to see them keep everything the way they have it now for the iApps, but with a cd to get all the other apps for 19.99 or 29.99 with a few extras.

ie,

everything for free to download except iDVD and have

iLife for 49.99
iDVD
iMovie
iTunes
iPhoto

Web & Personal (some cool iName would be good) for 19.99
Mail.app (change it to iMail :S)
Address Book
iCal
Safari
something extra that isn't available on the web

iDeveloper for 19.99
Developer Tools
X11
something extra that isn't available on the web.

So what do you guys think?
Click to expand...

I think with the money you're giving them when you buy an iMac with 512MB RAM, you should pay for no software except third-party software. Period. For the life of the machine.
 
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