More Details of the MacBook Pro

[matperk]

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Chundles
One story I came across this morning said a guy at MWSF "accidently" removed the MagSafe powercord on one of the MacBook Pros at MWSF to see what the battery life indication was - it said 3.3 hours was the estimate... I'm certain he wasn't the first to do this that day on that machine, so what does that tell us? Is Apple purposely witholding battery info, because "it only gets 3.3 hours on a charge!?!"... Trust me, the Yonah can shut down cores as needed, and system-load, more than CPU load, will determine an individual user's battery life, as well as how hot & noisy it will run.

Christ. My current Windows Laptop has a 15.4" screen, and has a slower processor than the MacBook. It gets literally 1 hour of battery life, even with the screen at minimum brightness. I guess I'm the only one that thinks 3.3 hours is a lot.

I, for one, can't wait until my macbook gets here.

 

[brain21]

Speculations about why not to buy a MacBook now:

12" & 17" (or 20") models will be coming out. If that is what you want, then wait. 15" is the sweet spot for me personally.

BluRay or DL 8x optical drives. Since I never had a PowerBook, are these things like normal PC laptops where you can easily physically remove the drive? If so, perhaps you can buy your MacBook now, and purchase a Blu Ray or DL drive when they come out? If I get the MacBook, I won't buy a DL drive. I'll wait till the BluRays come out, and then I'll wait again till the price drops...

I wonder is Apple is doing anything w/ Maxell & InPhase technologies? Maybe they could leapfrom the whole BluRay/HD-DVD issue and just switch to the Holographic drives that Maxell & InPhase will be coming out with this year. 300GB on an optical disk, & more in the future. I doubt it. It would be way too expensive, at least now. In a year or two however.... drool..

Single-core laptops (MacBook non-Pro) at a significant cost savings maybe?

These are just guesses, but unless the screen size is a big issue, I don't know that waiting will be that beneficial if the current MBP is around what you were looking for anyway...

Rev A vs Rev B I don't think will be as much of an issue as it has been in the past. Intel has not had "Rev A vs Rev B" types of problems really since that whole Pentium math error hit back in the 90's w/ the original Pentium. Intel's stuff is extremely stable and well engineered. AMD motherboards tend to be a little different. Intel MBs all use standardized chipsets, all Intel. AMDs can use ASUS chipsets, ALI chipsets, and several others. A close paralel to the whole Macs are more stable than PCs cause they are fairly standardized. As far as the non-Intel portions of the laptop, most everything has been "tested" in the Current line of PowerBooks, no? The only thing REALLY new is the new, brighter display, and the magnetic power cord.

There are only 2 things that could come out in the next 6 mos or so that would make me regret getting a MBP now...

1) MacTablet Pro - IF I can get OSX 10.4.4+ to run on a TabletPC I'll get that instead of the MBP, but I doubt it unless there is some BIOS hack, so I will most likely get the MBP. If a Tablet comes out that will suck for me, and I will be envious of everyone that gets one. I can only hope that they are outrageously expensive so I can say to myself "well I couldn't have afforded one anyway"

2) Black Anodized aluminum MBP with the white apple on the lid that lights up.
Need I say more? How fricking cool would that be? A Black Anodized alum. with the white glowing Apple would just be the coolest damned looking latop on the market, period! If laptops in general were not such an enormous pain in the butt to take apart, I would even consider having someone anodize a MBP for me, but unfortunately it is a nightmare to try to gut any laptop computer...

Brain21

 

[~Shard~]

Would a Blu Ray drive be feasible in a laptop at this point in time? Apple couldn't include DL burners in the laptops due to space requirements (presumably) so would Blu Ray drives encounter the same issues? Blu Ray drives will definitely appear in desktops before laptops...

 

[matperk]

Would a Blu Ray drive be feasible in a laptop at this point in time? Apple couldn't include DL burners in the laptops due to space requirements (presumably) so would Blu Ray drives encounter the same issues? Blu Ray drives will definitely appear in desktops before laptops...

BluRay will take the same course that all other technologies have taken. They will go into desktops after an unknown amount of time (this year?) and will slowly transition into laptop realm but at very steep prices. This happened with processors, cd-drives, dvd-drives--everything.

It just wouldn't be practical to throw in a bluray drive at this point because there is no content yet available for them. There isn't even any commercial media available yet, and remember dvds? how long did it take after commercial media was available that we, as consumers, could just go out and buy some blank discs?

 

[~Shard~]

BluRay will take the same course that all other technologies have taken. They will go into desktops after an unknown amount of time (this year?) and will slowly transition into laptop realm but at very steep prices. This happened with processors, cd-drives, dvd-drives--everything.

It just wouldn't be practical to throw in a bluray drive at this point because there is no content yet available for them. There isn't even any commercial media available yet, and remember dvds? how long did it take after commercial media was available that we, as consumers, could just go out and buy some blank discs?

Agreed. I'm giving it until the end of the year before I start seriously looking at Blu Ray - hopefully by then the costs will have started to come down, content will be more widely available, etc.

 

[LGRW3919]

Speculations about why not to buy a MacBook now:

12" & 17" (or 20") models will be coming out. If that is what you want, then wait. 15" is the sweet spot for me personally.

BluRay or DL 8x optical drives. Since I never had a PowerBook, are these things like normal PC laptops where you can easily physically remove the drive? If so, perhaps you can buy your MacBook now, and purchase a Blu Ray or DL drive when they come out? If I get the MacBook, I won't buy a DL drive. I'll wait till the BluRays come out, and then I'll wait again till the price drops...

I wonder is Apple is doing anything w/ Maxell & InPhase technologies? Maybe they could leapfrom the whole BluRay/HD-DVD issue and just switch to the Holographic drives that Maxell & InPhase will be coming out with this year. 300GB on an optical disk, & more in the future. I doubt it. It would be way too expensive, at least now. In a year or two however.... drool..

Brain21

the price of the holographic technology, when it first comes out, is likely to be above the $1 per GB mark. this is still multiple years off for consumers and as far as Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, the players are so huge i doubt they will come within a year to the 1" thick MacBook..

 

[nagromme]

Just a nitpick, but technically the MacBook Pro and iMac that Steve introed at MWSF are NOT Rev-A machines. "Rev-A" implies that it is the first revision to an existing design. ... Maybe a better term would be Rev.-Zero...

Thanks. Calling an UN-revised model Rev A has always bothered me but I've been too lazy to buck the trend. The first semi-official use of the term in my own experience was Rev A and Rev B of the blue G3 smurf-towers. Those were, of course the SECOND (A) and THIRD (B) releases

I couldn't think of anything I could say that would be more correct AND also clear to others who have been mis-using the "revision" term. Un-revised, maybe. But no matter, what, people by habit will call the first REVISION Rev B

OK, then, I will try to be more accurate in future: I propose calling them "Ver A" and "Ver B." Just spell it backwards.

 

[nagromme]

BluRay or DL 8x optical drives. Since I never had a PowerBook, are these things like normal PC laptops where you can easily physically remove the drive?

It's probably possible, just not easy--and it would void your warranty so it's best to do it later. Past PowerBook models--even ones like Lombard with custom drive housings--have gotten 3rd-party upgrade kits for their optical drives. So somebody may well step up to meet that need again, once thin slot-load Blue-Ray drives are plentiful.

Rev A vs Rev B I don't think will be as much of an issue as it has been in the past. Intel has not had "Rev A vs Rev B" types of problems really since that whole Pentium math error hit back in the 90's w/ the original Pentium

You're right that (besides the CPU, GPU, screen, remote, card slot and camera), some of what's in a MacBook, and the general case/hinge design, has been tested in the PBG4. But not everything, and not all connected and cooled in the same way--or supplied by the same vendor necessarily. So Ver A issues are still a factor to take into consideration. In my experience, Ver A problems are usually due to some bad part from a supplier, and then the supplier either fixes the issue or Apple finds a different part. Sometimes they are due to Apple's own engineering once it sees the massive test of being sold to the public.

That said, ANY company's Ver A electronics will have more problems than Rev B, but at least Apple's reliability record is higher than other PC makers. And just because some Ver A machines have an issue (and forums are flooded about it) doesn't mean ALL of that same machine has the issue. Most people who buy a Ver A Mac get a perfect product. The fear is exaggerated by forums--where it's natural to discuss problems and seek help (or vent). Worst case, you have your warranty, and Ver A problems tend to emerge quickly. (And in some cases, like iBook G3 logic boards, where a manufacturing issue emerges late, Apple has extended people's warranties to cover that. So you're probably covered for Ver A defects even in that unlikely event.)

So a Ver A MacBook is expected to be a great and reliable product. Your odds of a perfect machine are excellent. But if someone CAN wait to improve those odds even more, by getting a Ver B, there's nothing wrong with that.

I myself tend to recommend a middle option: go ahead with Ver A if you need one, but wait a month or two for news of early issues. Some early issues get fixed in the MIDDLE of Ver A. (iPod Nano got a sleeve case in the middle, original AlBook 15 got a screen tweak to prevent white spots, etc.)

But if you can't even wait that long you're almost certain to be just fine anyway. The warranty is there if not.

 

[sehix]

What about the replacement for FW800 called SATA.

SATA is not a replacement for FW800, it's a replacement for ATA.

Works great for mass storage, maybe not so great for video applications; not that it's aimed for that market segment.

 

[mdavey]

Calling an UN-revised model Rev A has always bothered me but I've been too lazy to buck the trend.

The practice probably comes from general electronics engineering. From a hardware engineers' point of view, rev.A is the first publicly released revision. It might even be the first revision of the design to get manufactured but often the PCB goes through multiple spins before release.

Version is good. Issue works, too.

 

[Bern]

Just a nitpick, but technically the MacBook Pro and iMac that Steve introed at MWSF are NOT Rev-A machines. "Rev-A" implies that it is the first revision to an existing design. The MacBook Pro and (arguably) the iMac Core-Duo are both the first models in a new set of series.

True, they both carry over a number of features from their PPC progenators, but the changes are significant enough that the are not Rev-A. Maybe a better term would be Rev.-Zero...

Good point. Maybe we should refer to them as prototypes?

 

[janstett]

As far as *why* it doesn't have a modem I don't know. Most of the Intel laptop MBs that I have seen have the Modem built-in. However, maybe the new Dual-Core laptop motherboards don't have integrated modems anymore, just like they don't have FW800 support?

One of the things I noticed at this year's CES is that the PC industry is shedding legacy ports -- serial, parallel, and modem are the most noticeable casualties. Let's face it, most people don't use them. They add cost and use up valuable real estate.

When's the last time you used a parallel port?

I only use the serial port for debugging embedded devices. And I can get a USB serial adapter for $15.

In the age of wifi and bluetooth, the modem falls into the same category.

 

[~Shard~]

One of the things I noticed at this year's CES...

Cool, you were at CES as well? Well, if that's the case, I'm sure we must have bumped into each other at some point without even knowing it - the place wasn't that big after all...

 

[Performa]

Macs more expensive than PCs?

Oh my dear GOD!!!!!! You guys are the biggest bunch of whiners I have ever seen!!!!! Holy SH*T! (well, not *so* much in this thread as in the other MacBook thread w/ over 1000 posts in it!)

First of all, coming from the Windows/PC world, I find it simply hysterical to hear Apple users complaining about price!!!! For many many years we in the PC world (and not just Windows users - *nix users as well) have been saying that Apples just cost way too much. Our Apple friends tell us that their machines are so much better, and we say that they are also so much more expensive, and the Apple folks try to refute that. Then OS X came out. For the first time ever, MANY windows users (including myself) and many *nix users running KDE, Gnome, Enlightenment, etc. were like "Wow, now THAT is a nice GUI". The other nice thing (at least this is what we in the Windows world believe) is that Macs just WORK. There is FAR less to deal with in terms of weird reasons why certain software won't work on certain PCs, etc. I had to ditch a MB because Samplitude was crackling when I tried to record audio. Turns out that it was some weird compatability thing between the M-Audio cards and the VIA chipset. M-Audio constantly released new drivers in a furious attempt to fix the problem. For some driver "A" fixed it, for some driver "B" fixed it. For some (like myself) none did and I get a new MB w/o the VIA chipset. Such are the woes of the Windows users.

...back on track...

So until VERY recently, when someone would ask a Windows user why they didn't switch or make the my OS is better than your is, well it was hard to argue. With OSX the GUI is nicer (I hated the look, etc. of OS9). On Macs **** just works, which is REAL nice. SO what's left? Well, there are lots of apps that won't run on Mac OS X that kick ass that I don't want to give up (Samplitude is one for me - NuEndo is overpriced even more than Samp, and I won't touch ProTools - thats another story), and ...

That Mac hardware is so expensive.

Now, I can run both OSes (theoretically at least). That arguement is gone, and I, personally, am thrilled. I've been wanting to get a Mac since I got into video editing. Everything that you can do graphics-wise, I can do on Windows. Everything that you can do audio-wise on a mac, I can do on Windows, and I have a WHOLE lot more options. Video editing, OTOH, is a far different story. I can't run Vegas on a Mac, but I can run FCP, which I think is better. For Motion graphics, I have a whole lot more choices. Not only do I have AE, but I also have Motion & Shake as well. I do give up Discreet Combustion though, I do believe. :-(

Funny thing is... now that the hardware is on a more level playing field I hear Mac users saying "it's too pricey"!!!!!! Thanks for taking the Red Pill Neo, this is the REAL world!!

I really do actually find it funny. It's as if many of you have just woken up to a realization that us (inferior Windoze users to many of you) have known all along.

But guess what? It really isn't that far out of line at all.

First of all, lets set the record absolutely straight here.

We have a Dual-core laptop coming out at a base price of $1999, and it is at least TWICE as fast as the previous model.

The 15" G4 PowerBook came out. It was priced at (big shock here) $1999. For that you got a COMBO drive (not super drive) 512MB of ram, and a combo drive, NOT a super drive. The price is not out of line historically speaking at all. For all you 15" PowerBook guys complaining about the price, you got yours at the same price, and it is a slower computer. If this is way too expensive now, then the G4 PowerBooks were also way to expensive then, and you have NO ROOM to argue this point, so keep quiet about it, lest you look like a fool whose money parted a long time ago. If you got your PowerBook at the above specs for less, did you get them for that price RIGHT when they came out (IOW, pre-orders & 0-day purchasing), or was it a little later (you know, after the inevitable price drop over time)?

You guys sit here and moan (really, moan like this to your PC buddies, and they too will laugh at you and say SEE? I told you! Macs are too expensive), but it's really not THAT bad.

You compare the MacBook to basically any old laptop that is running a dual-core processor. You see an Acer that has very closely similar specs and is priced $300 less and talk about how the Apple is now a rip off.

Let me let you Apple guys in on a little secret here in the PC world...

Take an Acer, and Apple, and an Alienware or VoodooPC. Spec them all out to the same specs (don't bother going to the sites, neither company have dual-core laptops out yet). Guess what? The Apple will be about $500 more than the Acer. The Alienware or VoodooPC will be about $500 more than the Apple. Why is that? They are essentially the same laptop, right? Same specs & everything...

NO. You are paying extra for workmanship, reliability, *design* (just like you pay extra for designer jeans rather than Levis), and more. You see, it's much more than features. That is why Voodoo Labs absolute cheapest laptop *starts* at $1900. That's why the Alienware that starts at $1000, but there are not that many features (and a 3 hour battery), and the decent ones are priced at only slightly under the price of the MacBook and have only single-core processors.

Spec out a Dell that is the same as an Apple. The Apple will be 33% more expensive. However, that Apple will probably last a LOT longer. I bet Apple didn't have Beavis & Butthead deciding that the exhaust fans should be on the BOTTOM of the laptop so that if you set it on your... LAP... or desk, it will overheat the CPU in 5 minutes. I bet the LCD hinges don't break off after about 3 years (i've had a few Dells - my wife has one now). I bet the slightest tug on the power cable (not even enough to knock the laptop off of a table) can short out the middle pin on the power connector on the laptop making plugging the thing in impossible (had that happen on a Dell that I owend and *2* Toshibas that I had for work). Won't happen with the Apple. Or the Alienware. Or the VoodooPC. NOT because of the magnetic thing, but because of better build, slightly higher priced connectors, etc. And THAT is why you pay extra. Oh yeah, try to take advantage of your 1 year warranty. I have heard a few people complaining about hardware problems every now and then, with their Apple computers. What I HAVE NOT heard is them bitching about Apple's customer service for their PC. You've got the same warranty from Acer. Go google for some horror stories about customer service from these PC makers! Again, you won't get those stories from Alienware or VoodooPC owners. Again, that part of what you are paying for.

To me, all that **** I mentioned above is WELL worth an extra $200-$500

Think of it like this... You are comparing a Chevy SUV to a BMW X5, and complaining about the price difference. They are both SUVs, both have the same engine size, both get about the same gas mileage, both seat the same number of people, both have a nice stereo, etc. BUT, there are little touches and nuances about the BMW. The BMW is a LOT more reliable (if you don't believe me, get out of the 80's 'BMWs breakdown' mindset and get with the reality of the past decade or so). The BMW feels better built and more solid. The BMW looks nicer (though that is a more objective thing). in a few years, the BMW will still run nice and smooth. There are reasons why you pay more for a BMW even though on PAPER it looks about the same a a Chevy SUV (not picking on Chevy here, pick on any less expensive brand). You wanna compare the BMW X5 to something? Compare it to a Lexus SUV, or an Infinity. THAT's more Apples to Apples (no pun intended).

Here's another thing I find really funny about (only some of) you guys complaining about the price... I read some of the posters bought your PowerBook sometime in the last year. You were GONNA get the new MacBook, but upon further inspection, it's lacking too many features and is overpriced. Sorry... if you've got enough $$$ to buy a laptop very recently, and then run out and buy another like some of us buy more RAM, then you probably shouldn't be complaining about a measly $200+! Not only that, but re-read the part where I say that the PowerBooks cost the same as the new MacBooks.

That being said, I have noticed that most of the people complaining about the laptop are PowerBook users. iMac & G5 users aren't really the ones here complaining. Theres a reason for that. Read on...

Now, on to the other things you whiney-babies have been complaining about... (OK, next post)

Brain21

A friend of mine at work wants to buy his first computer. He doesn't know the difference between a Mac and a PC and I've been trying to explain all the different factors that may help him decide. Then I realized that it all boils down to one question, so I made a little "decision tree" diagram and gave it to him.

At the top is a box that says "Do you consider yourself a cheap screw?". That branches down to two boxes, "Yes" and "NO". The "Yes" box has a line that goes down to a box that says "Buy a PC". The "No" box has a line that leads to a box that says "Buy a Mac".

A simple Computer Purchasing Decision Tree.

 

[~Shard~]

<snip>

A friendly word of advice - when quoting such a lengthy post, edit it first to save space and scrolling time, and improve readability.

 

[pvanb]

It seems most of the griping about the SuperDrive has been the lack of DL. Granted, some people may actually use this and miss it, but I think the bigger concern should be the drop from 8x to 4x. Ten years ago I had a 4x CD burner and it was dog slow -- 20 minutes to burn a CD. I can't imagine burning DVDs at that rate.

 

[sunfast]

It seems most of the griping about the SuperDrive has been the lack of DL. Granted, some people may actually use this and miss it, but I think the bigger concern should be the drop from 8x to 4x. Ten years ago I had a 4x CD burner and it was dog slow -- 20 minutes to burn a CD. I can't imagine burning DVDs at that rate.

Yeah, the speed drop is a real concern. Does anybody know if this is due to the need for a super slim drive?

 

[Peace]

Yeah, the speed drop is a real concern. Does anybody know if this is due to the need for a super slim drive?

imho...It's due to Apple not yet commiting to HD-DVD or BlueRay or both.Forward thinkingwise.

 

[jacobj]

edit: duplicate

 

[jacobj]

...continued:

...Well now most of your reasons for complaint are hopefully allayed, disproven, killed, etc.


Brain21

2057178
2057179

The best couple of posts I have read in weeks. I second that man in disown and moaning that I may or may not have done in the past

 

[TBi]

<snip>
Let's look at the bottom line here...

- You have a laptop that is faster than a dual G5 desktop! (stop complaining about processors)
- You have a laptop that you can support *Fibre Channel*(!) speeds! (stop complaining about FW800)
- you have a laptop that STILL looks great (stop complaining that its not a new design)
- you have a laptop that has a BRIGHTER SCREEN (so at least temper your screen complaints)
- you have a laptop that is of superior or "premium" or "boutique" build quality and is STILL only w/i $200+ of the cheap-build bargain brands, and costs the SAME as it's predecessors, despite it being 2-4 times FASTER (stop complaining about price)

I tell you, there are gonna be a LOT of desktop G5 users that are just DIEING to get one of these. Probably why you don't really see too many of them complaining in this thread, unless they also have a MAC laptop of sorts.

I wonder what the percentage of complainers here are really (either knowingly or subconsciously) just pissed that they (relatively) recently bought a PowerBook and now something a lot better comes out...

Well now most of your reasons for complaint are hopefully allayed, disproven, killed, etc.

Brain21

When i first started reading this post i thought the guy was just ranting but by god does he make some good points and i wholeheartedly agree with him.

 

[iQuit]

My $0.02.

1.MacBook's are the greatest laptops ever, be satisfied. Isn't a dual core PB what you've been wanting? Stop ranting on how it could be better.

2.The processors in them are super pricey compared to G4's so consider that.

3.Blu-ray drives won't make it into laptops this year, and for some reason they do, it will be close to the end of the year.

4.Blu-ray and HD-DVD drives aren't even ready for desktops, they will be huge have no media and be too exspensive. They will also drain the battery like crazy. Oh and BTW we won't see slot loading ones for a long time to come.

5.FW800 and S-video out aren't really needed. And as for dual layer burning, if you on the go isn't single layer good enough?

6.I don't think a new MacBook 17" will come out till at least April, if you like the current one, buy it now.

7.Considering the power and graphics card of the laptop, the battery life is totally acceptable. In the future I can see them emplimenting better batteries, but they were trying to keep the cost down. It's already pricey and switching to new motherboards and processors has cost them a lot. Why do you think the form factor is the same?

8.When the native apps are released this laptop will be a great performer. Just because it is rev. A, I really don't see any major hardware problems needing to be ironed out. It is mainly the software we have to worry about. Updates will come.

9.Apple is known for getting rid of things like the floppy for instance. Why? Because it is outdated technology and they move forward into the future. They are just trying to standardize there computers, because most people have broadband and use only cd's...etc.

10.I can't really think at the moment but I will come up with a more intelligent post later.

thanks

 

[venom600]

My $0.02.

1.MacBook's are the greatest laptops ever, be satisfied. Isn't a dual core PB what you've been wanting? Stop ranting on how it could be better.

So from what I am seeing, the crux of your argument is that we should be so glad to get faster processors that we should be willing to settle for a computer that is lacking in other areas? Please. Just because you don't use certain features doesn't mean that others don't either. We aren't making unreasonable requests. We simply want feature parity with other notebooks in this class.

To say that the MBP is the best notebook ever is totally ludicrous. Is it good? Yes. The best? No. I see a lot of people apologizing and defending Apple in this regard, but think about it this way: if Sony or HP or anyone else had made this computer, would you still be defending the hardware? There is zero question that in the area of features it is lacking, no matter who makes it.

 

[iQuit]

Well a dual core laptop that runs OSX in any die hard Mac users mind is the best laptop ever. And spec wise it is the best Mac laptop. Windows doesn't count in my opinion because of the OS.

So from what I am seeing, the crux of your argument is that we should be so glad to get faster processors that we should be willing to settle for a computer that is lacking in other areas? Please. Just because you don't use certain features doesn't mean that others don't either. We aren't making unreasonable requests. We simply want feature parity with other notebooks in this class.

To say that the MBP is the best notebook ever is totally ludicrous. Is it good? Yes. The best? No. I see a lot of people apologizing and defending Apple in this regard, but think about it this way: if Sony or HP or anyone else had made this computer, would you still be defending the hardware? There is zero question that in the area of features it is lacking, no matter who makes it.

 

[venom600]

Well a dual core laptop that runs OSX in any die hard Mac users mind is the best laptop ever. And spec wise it is the best Mac laptop. Windows doesn't count in my opinion because of the OS.

I have been a diehard Mac user since I was old enough to type (23 right now) and in this Mac users mind, it good, but it is NOT the best. Apple uses industry standard boards and parts now, so the comparison to Windows computers (on the hardware front) is quite apt. Try looking at the computer from a a platform (OS) agnostic hardware perspective, and you will see that there are some fairly glaring omissions that by all rights should be included.