More Details of the MacBook Pro

[nagromme]

But what if they introduce somethign super cool in a month? And maybe I should wait for Merom instead of Yonah, and maybe they'll redesign the case!

If I keep this up, I'll NEVER end up buying something! I need a laptop, and I think the MacBook looks like a good one.

I hear you. The one thing you can ALWAYS be sure of with any tech purchase is that something even better will be out in a matter of months. You could wait for Merom, and Blu-Ray, and 30" laptops that fold up in your pocket... But there will still be something better a few months later.

So for me, the solution is: wait if you can, and when you can't wait--buy and enjoy.

No FW 800. OK, FW is NOT Dead. FW 800 is NOT dead. But as of right now, Intel's chipsets don't support it.

...I don't know about you guys, but I will gladly get rid of the FW800 knowing that its NOT an Apple descision, and knowing that they are at least making up for it by giving me something that will within months be an order of magnitude BETTER.

A good point (among others--although I do use a modem daily ).

And thus I wouldn't be surprised to see FW800 return (maybe with no ExpressCard needed) to future MacBooks. If not, I still expect it will remain on the towers (but then, they have card slots that will always leave the option open).

It's interesting to me that ExpressCard came out of the blue. Not that some didn't expect it--it has existed for a while--but it just wasn't discussed in the rumors

Let's look at the bottom line here...

- You have a laptop that is faster than a dual G5 desktop! (stop complaining about processors)
- You have a laptop that you can support *Fibre Channel*(!) speeds! (stop complaining about FW800)
- you have a laptop that STILL looks great (stop complaining that its not a new design)
- you have a laptop that has a BRIGHTER SCREEN (so at least temper your screen complaints)
- you have a laptop that is of superior or "premium" or "boutique" build quality and is STILL only w/i $200+ of the cheap-build bargain brands, and costs the SAME as it's predecessors, despite it being 2-4 times FASTER (stop complaining about price)

Good roundup--and welcome to the Mac side!

shouldn't they have knocked off at least 100 bucks on the PPC one??

Yes (And I expect that will quietly happen.)

Wow, they put Intel inside and immediately start acting like Dell and shaving off the features.

You mean like how Apple added dual processors, remote control, ExpressCard, camera, x1600 GPU, and 802.11a?

Personally this is justification for all those fights I used to have with the blind Mac advocates/zealots on comp.sys.mac.advocacy who drank Steve's cool aid. Steve spends all this time telling us how great the PowerPC is and how much faster it is than Intel, all the "world's fastest personal computer" ads, etc. Now the chickens come home to roost and the truth is laid bare for all to see. Hmm, 4x faster? I guess the PPC wasn't so great after all.

Interesting trivia you may not be aware of ...technology changes over time.

PowerPC Macs WERE much faster than Pentiums for many real world tasks. But that began to change, putting Pentiums neck-and-neck, and then ahead of G4s in the case of laptops. And so Apple implemented their backup plan--a good plan, too.

PPC was faster in the past (not to mention less power-hungry and hard to cool). Intel is faster now (and has become power-efficient). A change over time--and Apple has stayed on top of the shift.

You must think Apple was "stupid" not to choose a slower CPU years ago... because Intel would later on make something much better? Bad logic. Instead, Apple used the fastest chips back then, and uses the fastest chips now. Everybody wins (At least... Mac users.)

 

[brain21]

Way to introduce yourself to the forums!! I pretty much agree with everything you said

Whew! Thanks. I thought "my first post, it's long as hell, and everyone is gonna hate me!"

Seriously, I am psyched about the MacBook. I like Windows, but for video, Mac is the ****. I think that once I have a dual boot set up, eventually I'll find myself using windows only about 25% of the time (exceptions are with audio software - windows has Mac beat there). My question at this point is do I get a MacBook, or do I get a TabletPC and dual boot (assuming it can be done/hacked to boot off of a PCBios rather than EFI). I think Apple is counting on this and hoping to convert people such as myself over. I think a more typical home user, that uses a PC for surfing the web, using Office-like apps, watching DVDs, etc. will find that they can do everything on the Mac that they can on PC, and with less problems and a MUCH nicer interface (& somewhat less complicated I'm guessing). If the hardware can be kept competitive or if OSX can be gotten to run on PC hardware, I expect Apple to slowly start taking market share away from M$ over the years with this move. Probably not enough to make M$ sweat or anything, but still...

Plus, now it should be a lot easier for game creators to make games for the Mac Platform. I expect to see Macs getting a lot more games in the future, and so those that run windows just because of the superior games will have a little less reason to...

Brain21

 

[brain21]

On the other hand, maybe someone is worred about people with MacBooks in the bathroom, or looking up skirts in public...

LOL! Um, canyou imagine this scenario? A guy holding his opened, and powered on 15" (even funnier - 20") laptop down low, at an agle, directly up a girls skirt at the mall and hunched over, following her around... she stops and asks him what he's doing and he just scrambles and runs away!

 

[nagromme]

LOL! Um, canyou imagine this scenario?

On a related note, some gyms don't allow laptops in the showers, I've heard...

 

[shawnce]

From a fellow MacOSX-Talk list member...

The following is snippet from an ioreg listing from a new iMac Core Duo system...

+-o Root* <class IORegistryEntry, retain count 13>
  +-o iMac4,1* <class IOPlatformExpertDevice, registered, matched, active, busy 0, retain count 24>
    +-o AppleACPIPlatformExpert* <class AppleACPIPlatformExpert, registered, matched, active, busy 0, retain count 37>
    +-o IOResources* <class IOResources, registered, matched, active, busy 0, retain count 16>
      +-o com_apple_BootCache* <class com_apple_BootCache, !registered, !matched, active, busy 0, retain count 4>
      +-o IOHIDSystem* <class IOHIDSystem, registered, matched, active, busy 0, retain count 16>
      +-o IOBSDConsole* <class IOBSDConsole, !registered, !matched, active, busy 0, retain count 7>
      +-o IONetworkStack* <class IONetworkStack, registered, matched, active, busy 0, retain count 11>
      +-o IODisplayWrangler* <class IODisplayWrangler, registered, matched, active, busy 0, retain count 8>
      +-o com_apple_driver_AudioIPCDevice* <class com_apple_driver_AudioIPCDevice, registered, matched, active, busy 0, retain count 7>
      +-o Dont_Steal_Mac_OS_X* <class Dont_Steal_Mac_OS_X, !registered, !matched, active, busy 0, retain count 5>

Notice the Dont_Steal_Mac_OS_X object that is loaded and it looks like a few things have a reference to it (the increased retain count).

The following is what kextstat says about it... nothing appears to link against it.

Index Refs Address    Size       Wired      Name (Version) <Linked Against>
    1    1 0x0        0x0        0x0        com.apple.kernel (8.4.1)
    2   16 0x0        0x0        0x0        com.apple.kpi.bsd (8.4.1)
    3   25 0x0        0x0        0x0        com.apple.kpi.iokit (8.4.1)
    4   25 0x0        0x0        0x0        com.apple.kpi.libkern (8.4.1)
    5   24 0x0        0x0        0x0        com.apple.kpi.mach (8.4.1)
    6   12 0x0        0x0        0x0        com.apple.kpi.unsupported (8.4.1)
...
   83    0 0x20a15000 0x3000     0x2000     com.apple.Dont_Steal_Mac_OS_X (4.0.0) <6 4 3 2>

Interesting

 

[kugino]

Reality check - you are buying a Rev A of a new hardware/software platform. What exactly are your expectations given this? You can bet that there will be a Rev B within 4 to 6 months - or less- with VERY substantial changes based on their learnings about the Rev A. In addition, it will give them an opportunity to add/modify those elements and features they couldn't have ready for the introduction. I agree with the others who feel they rushed to get this out the door for MWSF - it shows.

i agree that it seems rushed out the door. but hey, there will still be many who buy this.

one rev A machine that i liked better than rev B was the G5 dual 2.0 PM. it had 8 ram slots, the 9600 video card (in contrast to the 5200 later on and only 4 ram slots)...sometimes rev B takes away more than it adds, albeit with some price reductions...but, i think rev B macbooks will be much better than rev A...

 

[boombashi]

http://theory.isthereason.com/?p=650


Watch a guy using the MacBook Pro

Wow! Thanks for the clip Peace - overall it looked pretty snappy. Makes me want mine even more now And by the way Apple doesn't "rush" anything...yes they have had minor problems in the past with certain things, but they are machines and software built by humans (that's why I got Apple care). They probably have the best quality control in the business...

I'm typing this on my 6 year old first gen dual G4 bought on day one (pre OS X) - I had a power button problem within the first 3 months that was fixed promptly, but since no problems what-so-ever. BTW ever since Panther was installed on it, it almost never gets turned off except for updates. I just sold my 2 year old 1st gen iBook G4 800 (to be replaced with MacBook Pro) which NEVER had a single problem. In fact I never crashed the entire computer once (apps? sure, once in while, but it never took down the system). It also remained on at all times.

I also have a 3rd Gen Dell XPS 1.5 years old and since have had to replace the Hard Drive and USB interface-and it overheats and blue screens for no reason (even with 7 internal fans-it sounds like a vacuum cleaner) and most of the time when I'm not even using the computer.

[Edit] Oh and talk about quality control - I bought my Dell XPS with Windows Media Center 2005 preinstalled installed, It's a little better now, but not before I got completely fed up with all of the bugs and went back to using my Tivo. Microsoft doesn't test their code, they let the public do that. Best of luck with Vista.

 

[bigandy]

interesting. ish.

- firewire. i'd have much rather had a FW800 port than a 400.
- DVD burner. i couldn't care less. only use SL discs. as long as it's not too slow, it's all good.
- S-Video. was obvious there'd be an adapter - such as comes with the 12" PB (there is one, isn't there? a friend of mine got one with hers)
- pixelage on screen - well obviously less on vertical because of iSight.
- openfirmware functions (target mode, etc) - good. glad they've not gone.

 

[tommyff]

Everyone seems uptight about the FW800 and the DVD player - what I don't see is any concern that this is a 32 bit chip - does that not matter? OK, maybe it doesn't matter for a laptop, as with the exception of the AMD Turion 64 ML37 in the excellent Acer Ferrari 4005, there aren't any 64 bit laptops really worth having. But - and I've not seen this mentioned anywhere - the iMac Duocore chip is ALSO 32 bit, representing a step backwards from the G5 - does this matter? It may be faster, but what about future compatibility - given that practically every desktop PC bought this Christmas harbored a 64 bit processor - I think it's worth worrying about.

Also, OS 10.4 made such a big thing about being 64 bit - I can't find a single mention of the term on Apple's website anymore!

The Intel Macs are overspun and overpriced I think...

Oh my dear GOD!!!!!! You guys are the biggest bunch of whiners I have ever seen!!!!! Holy SH*T! (well, not *so* much in this thread as in the other MacBook thread w/ over 1000 posts in it!)

First of all, coming from the Windows/PC world, I find it simply hysterical to hear Apple users complaining about price!!!! For many many years we in the PC world (and not just Windows users - *nix users as well) have been saying that Apples just cost way too much. Our Apple friends tell us that their machines are so much better, and we say that they are also so much more expensive, and the Apple folks try to refute that. Then OS X came out. For the first time ever, MANY windows users (including myself) and many *nix users running KDE, Gnome, Enlightenment, etc. were like "Wow, now THAT is a nice GUI". The other nice thing (at least this is what we in the Windows world believe) is that Macs just WORK. There is FAR less to deal with in terms of weird reasons why certain software won't work on certain PCs, etc. I had to ditch a MB because Samplitude was crackling when I tried to record audio. Turns out that it was some weird compatability thing between the M-Audio cards and the VIA chipset. M-Audio constantly released new drivers in a furious attempt to fix the problem. For some driver "A" fixed it, for some driver "B" fixed it. For some (like myself) none did and I get a new MB w/o the VIA chipset. Such are the woes of the Windows users.

...back on track...

So until VERY recently, when someone would ask a Windows user why they didn't switch or make the my OS is better than your is, well it was hard to argue. With OSX the GUI is nicer (I hated the look, etc. of OS9). On Macs **** just works, which is REAL nice. SO what's left? Well, there are lots of apps that won't run on Mac OS X that kick ass that I don't want to give up (Samplitude is one for me - NuEndo is overpriced even more than Samp, and I won't touch ProTools - thats another story), and ...

That Mac hardware is so expensive.

Now, I can run both OSes (theoretically at least). That arguement is gone, and I, personally, am thrilled. I've been wanting to get a Mac since I got into video editing. Everything that you can do graphics-wise, I can do on Windows. Everything that you can do audio-wise on a mac, I can do on Windows, and I have a WHOLE lot more options. Video editing, OTOH, is a far different story. I can't run Vegas on a Mac, but I can run FCP, which I think is better. For Motion graphics, I have a whole lot more choices. Not only do I have AE, but I also have Motion & Shake as well. I do give up Discreet Combustion though, I do believe. :-(

Funny thing is... now that the hardware is on a more level playing field I hear Mac users saying "it's too pricey"!!!!!! Thanks for taking the Red Pill Neo, this is the REAL world!!

I really do actually find it funny. It's as if many of you have just woken up to a realization that us (inferior Windoze users to many of you) have known all along.

But guess what? It really isn't that far out of line at all.

First of all, lets set the record absolutely straight here.

We have a Dual-core laptop coming out at a base price of $1999, and it is at least TWICE as fast as the previous model.

The 15" G4 PowerBook came out. It was priced at (big shock here) $1999. For that you got a COMBO drive (not super drive) 512MB of ram, and a combo drive, NOT a super drive. The price is not out of line historically speaking at all. For all you 15" PowerBook guys complaining about the price, you got yours at the same price, and it is a slower computer. If this is way too expensive now, then the G4 PowerBooks were also way to expensive then, and you have NO ROOM to argue this point, so keep quiet about it, lest you look like a fool whose money parted a long time ago. If you got your PowerBook at the above specs for less, did you get them for that price RIGHT when they came out (IOW, pre-orders & 0-day purchasing), or was it a little later (you know, after the inevitable price drop over time)?

You guys sit here and moan (really, moan like this to your PC buddies, and they too will laugh at you and say SEE? I told you! Macs are too expensive), but it's really not THAT bad.

You compare the MacBook to basically any old laptop that is running a dual-core processor. You see an Acer that has very closely similar specs and is priced $300 less and talk about how the Apple is now a rip off.

Let me let you Apple guys in on a little secret here in the PC world...

Take an Acer, and Apple, and an Alienware or VoodooPC. Spec them all out to the same specs (don't bother going to the sites, neither company have dual-core laptops out yet). Guess what? The Apple will be about $500 more than the Acer. The Alienware or VoodooPC will be about $500 more than the Apple. Why is that? They are essentially the same laptop, right? Same specs & everything...

NO. You are paying extra for workmanship, reliability, *design* (just like you pay extra for designer jeans rather than Levis), and more. You see, it's much more than features. That is why Voodoo Labs absolute cheapest laptop *starts* at $1900. That's why the Alienware that starts at $1000, but there are not that many features (and a 3 hour battery), and the decent ones are priced at only slightly under the price of the MacBook and have only single-core processors.

Spec out a Dell that is the same as an Apple. The Apple will be 33% more expensive. However, that Apple will probably last a LOT longer. I bet Apple didn't have Beavis & Butthead deciding that the exhaust fans should be on the BOTTOM of the laptop so that if you set it on your... LAP... or desk, it will overheat the CPU in 5 minutes. I bet the LCD hinges don't break off after about 3 years (i've had a few Dells - my wife has one now). I bet the slightest tug on the power cable (not even enough to knock the laptop off of a table) can short out the middle pin on the power connector on the laptop making plugging the thing in impossible (had that happen on a Dell that I owend and *2* Toshibas that I had for work). Won't happen with the Apple. Or the Alienware. Or the VoodooPC. NOT because of the magnetic thing, but because of better build, slightly higher priced connectors, etc. And THAT is why you pay extra. Oh yeah, try to take advantage of your 1 year warranty. I have heard a few people complaining about hardware problems every now and then, with their Apple computers. What I HAVE NOT heard is them bitching about Apple's customer service for their PC. You've got the same warranty from Acer. Go google for some horror stories about customer service from these PC makers! Again, you won't get those stories from Alienware or VoodooPC owners. Again, that part of what you are paying for.

To me, all that **** I mentioned above is WELL worth an extra $200-$500

Think of it like this... You are comparing a Chevy SUV to a BMW X5, and complaining about the price difference. They are both SUVs, both have the same engine size, both get about the same gas mileage, both seat the same number of people, both have a nice stereo, etc. BUT, there are little touches and nuances about the BMW. The BMW is a LOT more reliable (if you don't believe me, get out of the 80's 'BMWs breakdown' mindset and get with the reality of the past decade or so). The BMW feels better built and more solid. The BMW looks nicer (though that is a more objective thing). in a few years, the BMW will still run nice and smooth. There are reasons why you pay more for a BMW even though on PAPER it looks about the same a a Chevy SUV (not picking on Chevy here, pick on any less expensive brand). You wanna compare the BMW X5 to something? Compare it to a Lexus SUV, or an Infinity. THAT's more Apples to Apples (no pun intended).

Here's another thing I find really funny about (only some of) you guys complaining about the price... I read some of the posters bought your PowerBook sometime in the last year. You were GONNA get the new MacBook, but upon further inspection, it's lacking too many features and is overpriced. Sorry... if you've got enough $$$ to buy a laptop very recently, and then run out and buy another like some of us buy more RAM, then you probably shouldn't be complaining about a measly $200+! Not only that, but re-read the part where I say that the PowerBooks cost the same as the new MacBooks.

That being said, I have noticed that most of the people complaining about the laptop are PowerBook users. iMac & G5 users aren't really the ones here complaining. Theres a reason for that. Read on...

Now, on to the other things you whiney-babies have been complaining about... (OK, next post)

Brain21

 

[Ynot]

The Parts that are Missing

Battery Life: ether Apple has a bigger Better Battery or the Battery Life will be Shorter than the Old Power Book. If you notice the New Power-supply hat 85 Watt. That is 20 Watt's more than the Old Power-supply. The only Reason is that the New Machine needs more, and if Apple didn't up the Battery we are going to get less Offline Time. I mean Real-World not Clinical Lab Battery Life.

If Apple really wanted to Give the Mac Book Power they should have given it A FW800 Port and packed a Adapter for FW400 for those that still have Slow Hardware, I have never had a PBook come in because a FW 800 Port was Shot, So Reliability shouldn't be a problem. Most FW800 Drives are Stationary so that Power Consumption shouldn't be a Problem because you are Plugged in anyway. Or if they really wanted to go to real Power they could have put a SATA port on the Out Side.

Going for the new PCI Slot is a nice try but then again What are you going to Put in a slot for which no Cards Exist. Sound a lot like the PCI-X on the old G5's it took long and there still are almost no Cards Available and Anyone developing for that Dead Slot (3-per G5) has cut there Losses and Stopped any Development.

So the Mac Book had to be a hair thinner then the 17" PBook, WHY?
the 15" PBook isn't thick. Most PC Notebooks are thicker. It means the Customer gets a Slower Drive and a DL SD which could have fit doesn't. it doesn't make sense.

 

[shawnce]

Everyone seems uptight about the FW800 and the DVD player - what I don't see is any concern that this is a 32 bit chip - does that not matter? OK, maybe it doesn't matter for a laptop, as with the exception of the AMD Turion 64 ML37 in the excellent Acer Ferrari 4005, there aren't any 64 bit laptops really worth having. But - and I've not seen this mentioned anywhere - the iMac Duocore chip is ALSO 32 bit, representing a step backwards from the G5 - does this matter? It may be faster, but what about future compatibility - given that practically every desktop PC bought this Christmas harbored a 64 bit processor - I think it's worth worrying about.

PowerBooks are 32 bit, the MacBook that is replacing it is 32 bit so no loss.

iMac G5 has a 64 bit processor but only supported 2 GiB of RAM, so use of 64 bit address on a iMac G5 really doesn't make much sense, it wasn't why the iMac used the G5.

In the second half of 2006 Intel is bring out the "Merom" processor for laptops and small form factor systems. This is a 64 bit processor (among other nice additions and enhancements). After that point in time Apple will likely release 64 bit capable hardware.

Also the replacement Intel based PowerMacs will have 64 bit processors in them (they will likely use the desktop/workstation relative of the Merom processor called Conroe).

With that said Apple will have to make more substantial changes to Mac OS X to get 64 bit addressing working on Intel above an beyond what they did for PowerPC. Doesn't expect 64 bit addressing support to really come into existence until Mac OS X 10.5.

The Intel Macs are overspun and overpriced I think...

I disagree. They are a good start for the Intel transition and fairly priced even compared to Wintel system. The MacBook Pro really leaves the PowerBooks behind in performance.

 

[nagromme]

But - and I've not seen this mentioned anywhere - the iMac Duocore chip is ALSO 32 bit, representing a step backwards from the G5 - does this matter? It may be faster, but what about future compatibility - given that practically every desktop PC bought this Christmas harbored a 64 bit processor - I think it's worth worrying about.

64-bit matters very little: for some people it will matter over time, for most it will never be an issue in the lifetime of their current computer. Speed is FAR, FAR more important.

Developers will not be releasing many 64-bit-only apps while nearly every computer that is in use today is 32-bit.

The Intel Macs are overspun and overpriced I think...

Where can you get something better or cheaper? Are you looking at all the specs and included features or just a couple?

 

[tommyff]

I'm in the market for a new laptop - ignoring the OS (yes, I know that's like saying 'ignoring her face'; or 'not taking into account his personality'), but on specs alone the aforementioned 4005 beats the MacBook Pro hands down - speed, graphics, and much lower price:

http://www.shopacer.co.uk/sess/utn;...rari/Ferrari+4000/product_overview.shopscript

Also looks pretty hot with carbon fibre lid too - although I admit, MacBook is far prettier.

64-bit matters very little: for some people it will matter over time, for most it will never be an issue in the lifetime of their current computer. Speed is FAR, FAR more important.

Developers will not be releasing many 64-bit-only apps while nearly every computer that is in use today is 32-bit.


Where can you get something better or cheaper? Are you looking at all the specs and included features or just a couple?

 

[shawnce]

Battery Life: ether Apple has a bigger Better Battery or the Battery Life will be Shorter than the Old Power Book. If you notice the New Power-supply hat 85 Watt. That is 20 Watt's more than the Old Power-supply. The only Reason is that the New Machine needs more

No that is NOT the only possible reason. Consider that the battery sub-system in the MacBook Pro maybe capable of charging the battery faster then prior generations... faster charging requires a larger power supply.

Note that the old 15" PowerBook had a 50 watt-hour battery and the MacBoook a 60 watt-hour battery a 20% difference while the power supply difference is around 30%. In other words they have a bigger battery.

Anyway with out actually battery life numbers folks are just speculating... I bet Apple hasn't yet fully finished final qualification on the MacBook to get the final numbers yet (not sure what review process externally those may have to go through now... or they just don't want to list it given past lawsuits).

 

[shawnce]

I'm in the market for a new laptop - ignoring the OS (yes, I know that's like saying 'ignoring her face'; or 'not taking into account his personality'), but on specs alone the aforementioned 4005 beats the MacBook Pro hands down - speed, graphics, and much lower price:

http://www.shopacer.co.uk/sess/utn;...rari/Ferrari+4000/product_overview.shopscript

Also looks pretty hot with carbon fibre lid too - although I admit, MacBook is far prettier.

Apple isn't selling generic laptops but a solution which includes things like Mac OS X, iLife, etc. They are not pricing it for your type of market.

 

[boombashi]

I do give up Discreet Combustion though, I do believe. :-(

I know you will be sad to hear but unfortunately you CAN INDEED use formally known as "Discreet Combustion" now "Autodesk Combustion" on OS X

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?id=5775644&siteID=123112

 

[tommyff]

I disagree - now Apple is using Intel chips, the comparison is entirely valid. I'm in the market for a power / 'professional' laptop for billboard-size 750mb file Photoshops. I'm the ideal customer for a MacBook 'Pro'. The solution Acer is selling is XP Pro, plus Office, itunes and every other windows compatible program under the sun- matching whatever else iLife has to offer - a solution, a jolly good one, with a future compatible 64 bit chip for 64 bit programs; which come September and Vista will be ubiquitous. And all for a cheaper price.

Apple isn't selling generic laptops but a solution which includes things like Mac OS X, iLife, etc. They are not pricing it for your type of market.

 

[irobot2003]

[...]
let me ask you guys something: isn't laptop a portable computer device? you are carrying the thing around in your backpack and I assume you aren't going to carry around external hard drives with 800, which adds 3 lbs more and more hernia too.

plus, most people have fw400 and not fw800. so you can't make the argument that people might go around import something from other fw devices.

[...]

Of course, having these devices are better than not having them. but losing them don't really give me a reason not to get the macbook pro.

I have a 2.5" FireWire 800 drive which I imagine weighs about 1lb or less... and yes I actually do carry it around with me everywhere.

FW800 is backwards compatible with FW400 so if you did have a FW800 port you could import data from FW400 drives with the right cable ($15).

While this might not stop me from eventually buying a MacBook Pro, it will make me hold on to my PowerBook longer than I would otherwise... if only to see if one of the subsequent models will have FW800, or if Rev B. will have it.

 

[shawnce]

I disagree - now Apple is using Intel chips, the comparison is entirely valid. I'm in the market for a power / 'professional' laptop for billboard-size 750mb file Photoshops. I'm the ideal customer for a MacBook 'Pro'. The solution Acer is selling is XP Pro, plus Office, itunes and every other windows compatible program under the sun- matching whatever else iLife has to offer - a solution, a jolly good one, with a future compatible 64 bit chip for 64 bit programs; which come September and Vista will be ubiquitous. And all for a cheaper price.

Apple solution is easy to argue far better integrated and supported (hence worth more) but anyways... you do know that Acer is near the bottom of heap for quality and support right? (based on indirect experience and comments at work) Not really the best company to use as a price point.

 

[tommyff]

The readers, editors and website viewers of What Laptop don't seem to agree (click on link above)- but I take your point and will research it further. I have heard of bad experiences with Apple also - sending out refurbished computers to replace DOAs for example.

Apple solution is easy to argue far better integrated and supported (hence worth more) but anyways... you do know that Acer is near the bottom of heap for quality and support right? Not really the best company to use as a price point.

 

[shawnce]

The readers, editors and website viewers of What Laptop don't seem to agree (click on link above)- but I take your point and will research it further. I have heard of bad experiences with Apple also - sending out refurbished computers to replace DOAs for example.

Ah I didn't notice you are talking about an AMD Turion based laptop in comparison to a MacBook Pro. The MacBook Pro will eat the AMB Turion (Turions are currently only single core) for lunch in multi-threaded work and hold its own in single-threaded work (especially if you consider power consumption at the same time).

Review <http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2648&p=1> to get an idea of how the Core Duo stacks up to a desktop AMD processor not a Turion. The following if from the final words page...

With updated benchmarks and a more level playing field comparison to the Pentium M and Athlon 64 X2, we're truly able to see the potential of Intel's Core Duo processor. Our initial analysis still holds true, that for a notebook processor, the Core Duo will be nothing short of amazing for professionals. Looking at the performance improvements offered everywhere from media encoding to 3D rendering, you're going to be able to do a lot more on your notebook than you originally thought possible (without resorting to a 12-pound desktop replacement). In the past, power users on the go had to sacrifice mobility for CPU power, but with the Core Duo, that is no longer the case. You will still most likely have to resort to something larger if you need better GPU performance, but at least your CPU needs will be covered. The one thing that Intel's Core Duo seems to be able to do very well is to truly bridge the gap between mobile and desktop performance, at least in thin and light packages.

But what about the bigger picture? What does our most recent look at the performance of Intel's Core Duo tell us about future Intel desktop performance? We continue to see that the Core Duo can offer, clock for clock, overall performance identical to that of AMD's Athlon 64 X2 - without the use of an on-die memory controller. The only remaining exception at this point appears to be 3D games, where the Athlon 64 X2 continues to do quite well, most likely due to its on-die memory controller.

The problem with the Core Duo is that its clock speeds aren't going to be quite high enough to be competitive, on the very high end, with AMD. Luckily for Intel, Conroe should be able to offer higher clock speeds without much of a performance penalty, thanks to its 4-issue core. It is always interesting to note that Intel's marketing focus is moving away from focusing on ILP (Instruction Level Parallelism), yet one of its biggest features of their next-generation microarchitecture is a significant increase in ILP.

 

[Bern]

...continued:

9) No Modem - God, *who cares!?!* I know that some of you use dialup when travelling, etc. So get an external dongle-style modem and use that. I mean for those that DO use modems, how often do you REALLY use it? Besides that, if you are somewhere where you are using a modem, odds are that location isn't the escalator in a mall, right? Odds are that you are sitting or something like that, so having a dongle on the laptop is not that big of a deal. Brain21

Er what about those of us who use our Powerbooks professionally? We use the internal modem to send faxes, and I certainly do from all parts of the world. Unfortunately a modem is still a necessity for a lot of people.

I do, however, believe Apple are making a step in the right direction. I have no doubt their next few revisions of the MBP will get better and better.

 

[shawnce]

oops

 

[shawnce]

Er what about those of us who use our Powerbooks professionally?

Like me?

We use the internal modem to send faxes, and I certainly do from all parts of the world. Unfortunately a modem is still a necessity for a lot of people.

I use a bluetooth phone, I can send / get faxes if I must. Personally I now prefer electronic transfer of PDFs to faxes.

In reality I haven't had a new for a modem in 3+ years and up until a few months ago I was traveling a lot to place with minimal network access (had cell phone).

 

[irobot2003]

I'm in the market for a new laptop - ignoring the OS (yes, I know that's like saying 'ignoring her face'; or 'not taking into account his personality'), but on specs alone the aforementioned 4005 beats the MacBook Pro hands down - speed, graphics, and much lower price:

http://www.shopacer.co.uk/sess/utn;...rari/Ferrari+4000/product_overview.shopscript

Also looks pretty hot with carbon fibre lid too - although I admit, MacBook is far prettier.

Hmm, the advantage doesn't look clearcut to me... the Mac has a 32bit dual core, er, Core at 1.83GHz, the Acer 4005 a single core 64bit AMD at 2GHz, the Mac has an ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 256MB, the Acer an ATI Mobility Radeon X700 128MB, the Mac has a 667MHz frontside bus, the Acer 333MHz, and the Mac has a 1440x900 LCD while the Acer has a 1680x1050 LCD.

The only clear performance advantage I see for the Acer is in screen resolution... the Mac has a faster bus and graphics card.

The Mac is $300 more list, maybe $400-500 more street... heh, I'd go for the Mac if I were you...