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More Details on Apple's Intel Mac

Prom1 said:
Most importantly how is the technology Spotlight going to be able to work on the Intel based Macs'? Is this partially cpu specific? Is the future of Mac OS X still going to be coded with Objective-C or is every programmer going to have to go back to school, slowing development time?? How will my Mac formatted iPod react with this new Intel cpu based mobo?
Click to expand...

Do yourself a favor and seek the knowledge of people who developed on NeXTSTEP when it went from Motorola 68040 to Intel x86, HP PA-RISC, and SPARC.

They've been through this before, ten years ago.

Try looking through Google Groups, focusing on comp.sys.next.*, and looking for posts that mention "fat binaries" or "moving to Intel".
 
G5 Case

Wow, looking at the Intel Mobo in the G5 really makes the case look half empty...or half full depending on how you look at it. :D
 
what should happen

this is what should happen

1. Prices go down at least 30%
2. All PC Graphics card supported
3. Windows able to run on macs
4. Tiger not able to run on PCs
5. Dual "Dual" Core chips replace dual G5
6. A dual core notebook within a year
7. Apple sends me one right away
 
VicMacs said:
this is what should happen

1. Prices go down at least 30%
2. All PC Graphics card supported
3. Windows able to run on macs
4. Tiger not able to run on PCs
5. Dual Core chips replace dual G5
6. A dual core notebook within a year
7. Apple sends me one right away
Click to expand...

Dual Core chips should not replace dual G5's Dual Dual Core should replace dual G5's ;)
 
sokalegga said:
Guys relax

First of all let me introduce myself: I am a graphics/web designer from Greece, that works on a PC (yeah I'am on the other side of the fence for now), but would be very eager to switch on the "white side" for good after Steve Job's announcement

Remember: I DEFINITELY don't want to launch a war here!! I am fed up of the Mac vs PC bout quite some time now-and I almost lost a good friend after escalating the...hmmm...attacks to personal level.

I have, however used macs for a looong time during my studying in UK since all the computers were Apple ones-naturally for and Art and Design faculty.

My experience however was not very nice, since their latest "achievement" was buying G4s with 256 megs RAM and OS 9 on 'em. I was using mostly Photoshop 6.0 and Flash MX and the thing was moving on a snail's pace compared to my P4@ 1.8 Ghz and 512MBs (probably lack of RAM?)!! I initally thought that the whole Apple thing was a hoax and I 'd never look on the other side of the fence again.

HOWEVER I checked the same systems with 256+ added and OSX 10.3 back in Greece and they were running extremely better than the crappies I have seen. Everything smooth and crisp-and better than my P4 for shure...So once again, it becomes obvious that the OS makes a huge difference on almost the same system!!

Now, if you don't now it already, you CAN run OSX 10.4 on a PC, using the PearPC emulator. Granted, it runs on 15% (at best) of an original G4, but the reactions of most PC users was "F**k MS!! i am a swtichaaa". Remember Apple has done NOTHING till this day, to stop development of PearPC.

But since Apple is moving to intel architecture, i am pretty sure that the problems facing PearPCs developers will be instanlty eliminated: all the cumbersome processor command translation code will diminish and it will be MUCH faster-but still an emulator.

New Apples will be a lot cheaper than the G series models since it was the mobo-CPU combination that skyrocketed the prices. Every other component was standard (HDD, RAM, DVD etc). And yes you can load a custom Bios picture-or even an animation if you want!!!

So you'll got

-Cheap Apples
-PC geeks running emulated OSX (well they already do...)
-And cumbersome PC users using Xpees..

What happens next? The geeks want the real thing (with XP running natively), Apple sales skyrocket, and Leopard becomes an instant classic-a trend like iPOD. And even more switchers appear.

Microsoft doesn't give a f"rt and they shouldn't because, the ain't gonna loose their Office afficionados. They got Xbox 360 already running with PS3 not officially launched. they 've got Media centers, PocketPCs and Tablets-as well as Longhorn in the way.

You say it "won't run on a stndrd PC". Well I am sure the hardware lock/firmware/keylock will be certainly bypassed and many people will install OSX on their machines. Pirated copies? Sure!! And Jobs WILL allow that...at least for the small fish. Why? Appreciation of the OS!! What about the hardware?

Well, honestly, only crappers would buy a cumbersome DELL tower to install OSX..Remember: Skoda Fabia is almost identical to VW Polo and the same goes with Octavia and VW Passat since VW is producing both cars. Have VW sales dropped a bit? No way!! A VW will always be a VW. Same goes with this case: "hey, you can buy a Mactel from HP, but the real thing is muuch better"

About viruses: ask any Linux/Unix user if they have ANY problem with viruses. Ask any server admin what OS they are using for secure server side apps: UNIX folks, since it is the most secure system today. OSX is using a very much modded OpenDarwin architecture which is in turn, based on UNIX. I don't see any virus problems.

Count me in after a year or so. I say Long live Steve
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i am sorry you lost your friend, but whatever he said, he was right, since he had tha Mac, hehehhehhehe
 
CrazySteve said:
If this x86 version of OSX leaks, you will have every wintel person
running OSX 2 years before the new MACs come out. :mad:
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That might not be a bad thing, I'm not being sarcastic either. Think about it, windows users will get used to the OS and when Apple lock it down they'll have to buy a mac. So it might be a sneaky way of increasing market share.

Now if we can only shoot all the graphic designers I keep bumping into who dislike macs, and keep putting people off them.

jay
 
VicMacs said:
this is what should happen

1. Prices go down at least 30%
2. All PC Graphics card supported
3. Windows able to run on macs
4. Tiger not able to run on PCs
5. Dual Core chips replace dual G5
6. A dual core notebook within a year
7. Apple sends me one right away
Click to expand...

This is what will happen

1. Prices will stay the same (relative to Dell)
2. A few graphics cards supported
3. Windows will run on macs, thus games will run
4. "Reboot into windows" will be the new tech support answer to any Mac problem
5. All third party OS X software development will stop, no more Mac versions of games
6. Microsoft will release "Vendetta" which runs MacIntel apps in Windows
7. OS X goes bye-bye
 
j_maddison said:
That might not be a bad thing, I'm not being sarcastic either. Think about it, windows users will get used to the OS and when Apple lock it down they'll have to buy a mac. So it might be a sneaky way of increasing market share.

Now if we can only shoot all the graphic designers I keep bumping into who dislike macs, and keep putting people off them.

jay
Click to expand...

exactly, it's not like running a developers version of 10.4.1 is going to be a viable OS for long term use!

if they want the full working OS, they'll have to buy Apple!
 
CyberB0b said:
This is what will happen

1. Prices will stay the same (relative to Dell)
2. A few graphics cards supported
3. Windows will run on macs, thus games will run
4. "Reboot into windows" will be the new tech support answer to any Mac problem
5. All third party OS X software development will stop, no more Mac versions of games
6. Microsoft will release "Vendetta" which runs MacIntel apps in Windows
7. OS X goes bye-bye
Click to expand...


you wish
 
CyberB0b said:
This is what will happen

1. Prices will stay the same (relative to Dell)
2. A few graphics cards supported
3. Windows will run on macs, thus games will run
4. "Reboot into windows" will be the new tech support answer to any Mac problem
5. All third party OS X software development will stop, no more Mac versions of games
6. Microsoft will release "Vendetta" which runs MacIntel apps in Windows
7. OS X goes bye-bye
Click to expand...


ROTFLMAO!!

"Vendetta." Heck, that might actually be what they call it!!
 
j_maddison said:
That might not be a bad thing, I'm not being sarcastic either. Think about it, windows users will get used to the OS and when Apple lock it down they'll have to buy a mac. So it might be a sneaky way of increasing market share.

Now if we can only shoot all the graphic designers I keep bumping into who dislike macs, and keep putting people off them.

jay
Click to expand...
Why would anyone want to run a poor beta version of a OS instead of XP?
Offcourse some ppl might try it out just to see if it works....
But that would be like trying to compare a mockup of an airplane with a real F16 (or any other plane of Your choise).
This OSX ditribution proberbly leaks like a bucket hit by a shotgun.
Lets see what happens next year!
 
VicMacs said:
CyberB0b said:
7. OS X goes bye-bye
Click to expand...
you wish
Click to expand...

No, I don't.

I switched to OS X three years ago. I never want to run windows again. I never want to be able to run windows again. I fear if my iBook can run windows... this option only leads to bad things.
 
boat said:
and finally, viruses attack weaknesses in software not hardware, so mac os x will be just as secure as it ever was.
Click to expand...


actually.... we don't really know how good (or bad) the mac OS is against a virus attack since (because of its low market share) it is not targeted to any great extent.

It is naive to give a bunch of credit to the mac os.

that being said, the associated reduction in market share should actually make the mac os 'safer' against a virus attack.
 
Will there be a day when Macs and PC's run at the same speed, or will Mac always be behind. Does Intel have an allegience to the PC world, thereby keeping the Mac always a little slower than the PC? What is the highest speed Intel has now?
 
Mac Future = Platform Independence

Jobs was SOOO burned my Motorola over the G4 development, and again burned by IBM, that freedom from being chained to just once chipmaker for high-end systems is of paramount importance.

So long as the Universal Binaries authorship of programs remains intact, Apple will maintain partnership flexibility far into the future. Let's say AMD has some sort of performance breakthrough--off we go to AMD. Freescale comes up with a great low-power option--Steve places an order. IBM's Power5 or Cell technologies hit high gear? We're back in business with Big Blue.

Could hackers reflash on-board chips to hack OSX to run on non-Apple machines? Sure. And about .0000000000001% of global computer users have the kind of technological sophistication to pull that off. And the second an actual manufacturer tries it, or a software company makes a software emulator that does the same thing, Apple Legal will descend upon that company like Delta Force. Hundreds of lawyers in Armani suits rappelling down from black-ops choppers, filing motion after motion in the legal equivalent to "shock 'n' awe."

Steve likes the fact that Apple systems are consistently rated the highest in build quality, durability, uptime, yaada-yaada. That will not change with the Intel switch. The build specs and QC standards will remain industry-leading for whichever Taiwanese sweatshop will be churning out the motherboards.

CPU bake-offs will still be "apples to oranges" because many high-end Apple programs (FCP, Logic, etc) will NOT have Windows equivalents, and even those that will (from 3rd parties like Adobe) won't be the same because of the OS they're running on.

KEEP THIS IN MIND: Apple is not a manufacturer of ANYTHING. Apple is a hardware design company and a software developer. If you go to Cupertino, you will not be able to tour a computer production floor where Macs are made from scratch. Maybe a few fab/testing labs to work on final designs and do QC. If you want to see Mac production, better book a flight to China, Taiwan, or India, depending on the unit.

In that light, having more design options when planning for future systems is a great advantage over being hamstrung by one high-end chip supplier who hardly gives a d@mn if you live or die because you'll only account for 3% of their business.

Sure, we lose AltiVec bragging rights. But now off-the-shelf components are available for designers--more options with less begging ("pretty please, Mr. GPU company, make a propriety version of your card for us??!?"), keeping costs down in the process.

Bottom line. SPEED KILLS. No matter how it is done, I want FCP to render faster. If AltiVec G5's can beat Intel's best, I'll take a G5. If a dual-dual Intel chip systems w/o AltiVec beats the more elegant AltiVec approach, it wins, no matter how old-skool the tech. If AMD has something new, or Freescale, count me in. The OS will still run seamlessly and be virus-resistant compared to M$. It will still be a Mac.

Steve's Marklar project future-proofs the Mac platform against the screwball R&D contortions of any one chip maker. Bold and brilliant move. Playing one vendor against another is the oldest small-business tactic in the book. Never put all of your eggs in some other guy's basket, unless you want to be on a financial, technological, and emotional rollercoaster.
 
kingstontown said:
Some conclusions one could draw out of Steve's last move:

1) If Apple decides to sell OS X to everybody this will mean the end of Mac and Apple Hardware, think of it as Transition III: Revenge of the Clones
2) If Apple makes a closed system, there will still be hacks to make OS X run on other systems. Remember how the Playstation, X-Box etc was hacked...
3) 1) & 2) => Mac is dead anyway! sooner or later
4) I will buy one of the last PowerPC PBs and keep it for a looooong time, I hope there will be a last revision based on the Freescale/Motorola 8641 G4

just my 2 cents
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i don't know about first 3 , but i will ,same as you, buy me a PPC , one of the last to have some power in my hands and i am planning to keep it for as long as i can too, after that, back to this
 

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ZLurker said:
Why would anyone want to run a poor beta version of a OS instead of XP?
Offcourse some ppl might try it out just to see if it works....
But that would be like trying to compare a mockup of an airplane with a real F16 (or any other plane of Your choise).
This OSX ditribution proberbly leaks like a bucket hit by a shotgun.
Lets see what happens next year!
Click to expand...


Uh because they'll have a fiddle. See that the OS is slick, start thinking oh what would life be like if I didnt have to worry about viruses and have to limit my interenet experience becasue I'm paranoid of things going wrong. And just maybe they'll think bugger, why wait for longhorn when I can have a next gen OS right now.

its called the puppy dog sale. Give someone something and they'll think, woo shiny and new, and then some people wont want to go back. Even if its just a development OS, there'll still be some apps that will work on there.

Jay
 
Fast sounds good but about quality.

I like the speed but I am worried about Intel quality. If it is anything like wintel then it will suck. If the quality/reliability is high then no body will buy the piece of junk Dell's. The Dells computers look like archaic boxes crafted by third world communist design bureaus. Apples are reliable and stylish. Dell is a grotesque boring box.
 
D*I*S_Frontman said:
Jobs was SOOO burned my Motorola over the G4 development, and again burned by IBM, that freedom from being chained to just once chipmaker for high-end systems is of paramount importance.

So long as the Universal Binaries authorship of programs remains intact, Apple will maintain partnership flexibility far into the future. Let's say AMD has some sort of performance breakthrough--off we go to AMD. Freescale comes up with a great low-power option--Steve places an order. IBM's Power5 or Cell technologies hit high gear? We're back in business with Big Blue.
Click to expand...

I feel like a broken record, but yes. This is the point I keep making as well. 1 step better would be to get rid of the checkboxes after a few more updates to xCode. Instead, xCode should just create universal binaries all the time. That way, all code created via xCode will always be for both processors. Perhaps I'm too simplistic in my thinking, but I liked the idea that, down the road, IBM and/or Freescale may get their #### together and crank out new desktop PPC chips (and I don't mean for Windows).
 
masterhiggins said:
So does this mean there will be no dual processors in the foreseeable future? (As Pentium 4 does not support dual). Does it support Intel in general? As in Xeon, perhaps?


-Sam
Click to expand...
Intel's Dual support is only on Xeon...
 
NO! Intel has 64-bit for all desktops, Windows XP 64-bit is a released product

davidchristophe said:
Intel's Xeon, P4 and P4EE are 32bit cpus. The 64 bit parts come out Q1 06.
Click to expand...

Please, stop spreading mis-information!

58504_590x230_x64trial_F.jpg


Windows XP 64-bit for x64 (AMD64/EM64T) is a released product, and is available as a free 120-day trial download today! It even has full graphics/GUI support for 64-bit programs, unlike 10.4's command-line-only 64-bit.(http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/evaluation/trial.mspx)
________________________

Intel's dual core chips (Pentium D and Pentium EE) are 64-bit.

Intel's Pentium 4 EE (3.7 GHz, 1066MHz bus, 2 MiB L2) chips are 64-bit.

Intel's Pentium 600 series (3.0 to 3.8 GHz, 800MHz bus, 2 MiB L2) are 64-bit.

Every 90nm Xeon (2.8 to 3.66 GHz, up to 2 MiB L2 and up to 8 MiB L3 cache) is 64-bit.

Check the tables at http://indigo.intel.com/compare_cpu/default.aspx?familyID=1&culture=en-US and http://indigo.intel.com/compare_cpu/default.aspx?familyID=5&culture=en-US - everything with "EMT64" in its description is an x64 64-bit chip.
 
 
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