More Evidence of NFC Support for Both iPhone 6 Models

[haruhiko]

old news from 2012.
but the chip inside handles both NFC and Japan's FeliCa system.
FeliCa runs osaifu keitai system used by docomo (it is itself a JV between docomo and sony).
meaning of all this:
although no HCE (only SE) this becomes able to use the largest installed base of any mobile payments system currently deployed.
international, ranging from transit in japan to starbucks in new york.

apple building this into iWatch will mean a wave of yr wrist at a terminal will be able to pay globally.

For your info, Hong Kong was the first city to deploy FeliCa in a large scale. The MTR (subway) started using "Octopus card" since 1997 (yes, a whopping 17 years of history) and it is the main form of electronic payment in Hong Kong. Every resident of Hong Kong has more than one octopus card by average. The card can be used to pay at (lower priced) restaurants, buses, MTR/subway, trams, supermarkets, stores, etc. etc. etc.

Many of the octopus cards are also linked to the cardholder's credit card account and supports automatic recharging so it has replaced the use of credit card in some situations too.

 

[zipa]

Would the 2:1 ratio be as a result of a greater variance in the range?

Amongst other things, sure.

 

[V.K.]

Two things--


2) NFC has been available as a technology for quite some time, and Apple launched Passbook without it.

yeh and how many people use passbook? I've never used mine. I use NFC compatible tap-to-pay credit cards every day, several times a day.

NFC doesn't seem to be gaining any market traction?

It's getting plenty of traction outside US, in particular in Canada, Japan, Korea and in some European counties. In Canada, tap-to-pay credit cards are very common and their adoption is accelerating. Lately I'm seeing tap-to-pay terminals everywhere including many small privately owned stores. They are the last to adopt new technology and making them switch to something else will be a tall order.

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That idea would still use a standard NFC chip. It would simply add a custom payment program.

do you know if it existing EMV terminals could be made to work with something like this? I mean paying with a phone and using, say, touch id for authentication. or would that require new terminals?

 

[Matt T]

do you know if it existing EMV terminals could be made to work with something like this? I mean paying with a phone and using, say, touch id for authentication. or would that require new terminals?

Presumably the NFC chip would only be active when using Touch ID. Touch ID acts as the authentication to switch on the chip, so for an NFC reader it's just like any other NFC chip - no upgrade necessary.

 

[SactoGuy18]

I believe that NFC is on the iPhone 6 for the following reasons:

1. Being a clean sheet design, the iPhone 6 models can finally accommodate an NFC radio/antenna subsystem right from the start.

2. Japanese and South Korea cellphone carriers insist on this capability because NFC mobile payment systems such as RakutenEdy (used by most convenience stores in Japan) and Olleh Touch (used in South Korea) are widely used in these two countries.

3. There are rumors Apple signed a major mobile payments deal with China UnionPay, and China UnionPay mobile payment terminals generally use NFC.

4. The folks behind the Isis mobile payment consortium in the USA (the consortium will soon rename itself) wants Apple to put in NFC so such payment terminals can be installed widely across the country.

Sure, Apple likely favored using iBeacons for mobile payments using Bluetooth 4.0 (LE), but the range of Bluetooth 4.0 signals--up to nearly 10 meters!--makes it potentially too vulnerable to hacking. That's why nobody has produced a mobile payment terminal that uses Bluetooth 4.0 connections.

 

[V.K.]

Presumably the NFC chip would only be active when using Touch ID. Touch ID acts as the authentication to switch on the chip, so for an NFC reader it's just like any other NFC chip - no upgrade necessary.

Thanks, that would probably work. But I forgot to mention one more desirable feature which would probably require a bit more integration between NFC readers and phones. Currently, in Canada tap-to-pay purchases are capped at 50$ per transaction (there are similar caps in other countries) as a safety measure. This is pretty restrictive in many places like supermarkets unless you shop one day at a time and are single. An iphone initiated transaction authenticated by a touch id should not need such caps but the terminal should be able to tell such transactions from regular tap-to-pay credit cards.
Do you know if currently used EMV terminals would be able do that?

 

[Misaki]

Two things--

1) That spot on the logic board could really be for any chip that size. The fact that there is a chip that size for NFC and that it is used in some cell phones does not mean that is what that spot is for.

2) NFC has been available as a technology for quite some time, and Apple launched Passbook without it. NFC doesn't seem to be gaining any market traction? So why now? Is it that it just wasn't a priority and they finally got around to it after accomplishing the other things on the list? Or did their opinion about the value of NFC change?

It's a chicken and egg problem inside the US. Not so everywhere else.
1) Canada has had PayPass/Paywave for quite a while, and some transit operators have NFC based transit terminals.
2) Japan has switched from RFID to NFC for it's mobile phones and transit systems
3) London has switched from RFID to NFC for it's transit systems and also uses PayPass/Paywave

need I go on?

Apple likely wanted to wait for the US based banks to finally trend against magstripe cards (Target's payment systems being hacked being probably one of the motivators in that case) before implementing this, because then Apple could be both the Merchant and the Bank, or third parties can use the iPhone and iPad for doing NFC payments (eg Square) without all the gear required for chip+pin.

Like, It's certainly not a big deal in the short run, in the long run, it would let Apple cut out MasterCard and Visa if both the payer and payee were using Apple devices. It even threatens PayPal.

 

[recoil80]

Can you give me an example where you can currently use iBeacons to buy stuff with your phone?

Have a look at Paypal Beacon, it uses BLE technology just like iBeacon.

I as a developer love the potentiality of iBeacon. It is possible to define ranges, so you know if your customer is very close to the cashier, if he is in front of a particular shelf, I know when he enters the shop.
This stuff cannot work with NFC, since the range is very limited.

Let's say that NFC is better if your only usage is mobile payment, but iBeacon has a lot more functionalities.
As I said, is better to have both on your phone, but I can leave without NFC.

 

[jeffe]

I was under the impression most terminals are already planned to become NFC enabled in the not so distant future. It would be pretty silly for Apple to just ignore NFC payments at this point.

I know many banks have already added NFC support for their card holders in the Android Ecosystem too, as well as some mass transit systems. Apple does not want to be left behind.

 

[Tech198]

Have a look at Paypal Beacon, it uses BLE technology just like iBeacon.

This looks good. but this as well as iBeacon, uses Bluetooth, thus all bets are off if the customers phone doesn't have bluetooth (only limited to smart phones, and or smart phones bluetooth turned off to save battery because its not needed)

WHy leave something on when u'r not actually gonna be using it ?

I can see from a business standpoint, but i can't see customers switching on Bluetooth every store they go into just because its faster payment system...

unless they always use Bluetooth on their phones, it may gain attraction, but not for everyone.

 

[fabianjj]

5 million over the course of a phone's life is not popular. Apple sells 5 million in one day. Samsung Sells 5 million in a week or two. But even if, Apple still made the concept popular to point that now every phone has to have a FFC.

I would say it was the original iPhone that STOPPED the trend of having front facing cameras being standard on high-end phones.

 

[recoil80]

This looks good. but this as well as iBeacon, uses Bluetooth, thus all bets are off if the customers phone doesn't have bluetooth (only limited to smart phones, and or smart phones bluetooth turned off to save battery because its not needed)

WHy leave something on when u'r not actually gonna be using it ?

I can see from a business standpoint, but i can't see customers switching on Bluetooth every store they go into just because its faster payment system...

unless they always use Bluetooth on their phones, it may gain attraction, but not for everyone.

I have always kept Bluetooth off on my phone because so far I didn't find it useful.
But some features of iOS 8 and Yosemite need bluetooth to be active, so I'll change my mind and I bet many other customers will start using bluetooth on their devices.
With bluetooth enabled some apps will take advantage of iBeacon to enhance the customer experience in shops. Give it some time and it will be widely adopted.

NFC is, by now, more popular and I won't be replaced by iBeacon. Both technologies can coexist and Apple may finally support NFC on their phone although is not their top priority

 

[NovemberWhiskey]

I don't know about other people, but of all my Android devices with NFC, I just turn it off to save power since I NEVER use it.

I don't think I have once used NFC except for the time when it first rolled out and Google gave Wallet users $10.00 free to use.

 

[Reason077]

do you know if it existing EMV terminals could be made to work with something like this? I mean paying with a phone and using, say, touch id for authentication. or would that require new terminals?

Existing EMV terminals are certainly compatible with the NFC chips in mobiles.

Apps already exist (for compatible Android phones) which can pay for things by tapping on any standard contactless EMV terminal.

eg: EE's "Cash on Tap" app: http://explore.ee.co.uk/cashontap

However, currently the standard EMV contactless transaction limit applies (£20 in the UK) - there's no ability at present to authenticate via the app and support higher value transactions.

 

[Anaxarxes]

barometric sensor

Although it has 9 pins, that place could be for the BMP282 barometric pressure sensor from Bosch that iPhone 6 is rumoured to sport. the 280 model has 8.

http://www.bosch-sensortec.com/de/homepage/products_3/environmental_sensors_1/bmp280/bmp280

 

[Milese3]

All looks good. I just would like to see the internal specifications of the A8 chip officially. I have high hopes.

 

[5232152]

About time....!

 

[V.K.]

Existing EMV terminals are certainly compatible with the NFC chips in mobiles.

Apps already exist (for compatible Android phones) which can pay for things by tapping on any standard contactless EMV terminal.

eg: EE's "Cash on Tap" app: http://explore.ee.co.uk/cashontap

However, currently the standard EMV contactless transaction limit applies (£20 in the UK) - there's no ability at present to authenticate via the app and support higher value transactions.

Thanks. that's unfortunate and is a serious limitation. whatever system Apple comes up with I really hope it does not have a transaction cap (at least not a low one). But making merchants upgrade their equipment will be a tough proposition.

 

[PinguTS]

I read this article several times and several times it got scratching my head: Something is wrong here.

The spotted spot has 24 solder pads, if it is considered for an SOT package. A SOT package has no pins in the corner, never ever. If you consider a BGA package, than it may have 28 solder pads (or 32, if you consider the 4 in the middle.) But to be honest, the 4 in the middle are way to big for solder pads. Presumably and comparing to the other spots, they are more intended for spreading the heat.

That means, this "news" is wrong: either the chip package is wrong or the spot is wrong. That is for sure.

OK, now to dig a little bit more into details. The considered NFC chip, seems to be the PN65V, which seems to be a successor to the PN65N used in the Samsung Galaxy. Searching for some information, you will find that presentation from NXP: http://www.nxp.com/documents/selection_guide/75017090.pdf
That presentation states on page 47 that the PN65N has a TFBGA64 package. That means this chip uses a BGA package, implying the information about the SOT package is wrong.
Digging deeper into the details, this presentation references that the PN65N is an improved version of the PN544. Well, it seems, the PN544 uses also the TFBGA64 package: ftp://ftp.partner-tech.eu/Mobile/OT-300/Specification/OT-300_NFC_specs.pdf
Now, counting the essential pins, means we need 35 pins. This excludes already all pins, that NXP needs for production testing. Adding those pins, would be something around 42 to 48 pins. That makes me think, if this board as NFC, it is definitely not this spot.

Just saying.

 

[HelloMikee]

Airdrop would not work for you?

I don't believe my Sony A7 or rx100m3 have airdrop, so nope.

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My personal experience with NFC file sharing is much like using Siri. Fun and new the first time and then never use it again.

I personally, on a regular basis, transfer photos via wifi from my camera to phone regularly. Hoping NFC make that process quicker.

 

[kdarling]

do you know if it existing EMV terminals could be made to work with something like this? I mean paying with a phone and using, say, touch id for authentication. or would that require new terminals?

Yes, EMV contactless terminals will work with EMV compliant apps on your phone, and certainly those apps could use a PIN, or fingerprint reader, or eye recognition or whatever personal authentication method they wish to make use of.

Currently, in Canada tap-to-pay purchases are capped at 50$ per transaction (there are similar caps in other countries) as a safety measure. This is pretty restrictive in many places like supermarkets unless you shop one day at a time and are single. An iphone initiated transaction authenticated by a touch id should not need such caps but the terminal should be able to tell such transactions from regular tap-to-pay credit cards. Do you know if currently used EMV terminals would be able do that?

Anything is possible, and the spending limit is up to the bank and merchant.

Let's take paying over NFC with Google Wallet for an example.

With Google Wallet, you're issued a virtual MasterCard number that is passed to the merchant. (Your REAL credit/debit card numbers are not stored in your device, nor transmitted to the merchant. They are held at Google Wallet servers.)

When you pay with Google Wallet, the merchant gets your virtual card number, which is authorized in the background by Google using the actual card(s) you have set up to pay with.

As for spending limits, until you're authenticated by Google, the Wallet app restricts you to $1,000 per day per device. After you're vetted, your limit is whatever your backing credit card / bank limits are.

Whether or not you enter a PIN is partly up to you. You can set your phone to always ask, for example, or to wait up to 24 hours between PIN requests. Except, I think if you're set up to act like a debit card. Then you have to enter a PIN each time, just as you do with a real debit card.

I believe that a merchant can also set up their system to request that you re-enter your PIN above certain amounts, kind of like how they will ask for a signature above certain limits.

 

[djdj]

I just noticed yesterday that Apple Retail employees are using new EasyPays for for checkout/scheduling (I worked there for 4 years, so I'm a nerd and notice these things.). The new models have NFC on them. I doubt Apple would go to the trouble of updating/replacing their fleet of checkout devices just to accept payment from competitors' devices. The new iPhone will have NFC. I bet an appendage on it. Anyone up for the challenge? Whoever loses the bet loses an arm. Pics get posted to Macrumors.

They're most likely doing that because by October 2015 everybody has to use EMV for credit card processing (replacing mag stripes), and nearly every credit card terminal that supports EMV also supports NFC.

This is probably coincidence. These things are going in stores everywhere because of that deadline.

 

[dagamer34]

It's not an antenna, more like a coil or inductor.

Hence, an NFC antenna isn't an antenna at all - it is really just a big inductor.

Yeah, I understand it's not an antenna as it doesn't "radiate" its bits, but that's being pretty nitpicky. Regardless, the main point still stands, you need space to receive those NFC signals, and trying to pack it into a small space means you need to be more exacting with the position of your phone relative to the other device with NFC. Larger is better.

 

[kdarling]

However, currently the standard EMV contactless transaction limit applies (£20 in the UK) - there's no ability at present to authenticate via the app and support higher value transactions.

Onboard apps can authorize higher payments.

Google Wallet, for example, is good for whatever your backing credit / debit card limits are.

Google Wallet Daily spending limit & fees:

Tap and pay

You are currently limited to spending $1000 per 24 hours for in-store purchases across all your cards and Wallet Balance on a single device, and up to $10,000 per day across multiple devices linked to your Google Wallet.

After you've verified your identity, this limit will be lifted and only the limits imposed by the issuer for your selected funding source will apply.

 

[Reason077]

Onboard apps can authorize higher payments.

Google Wallet, for example, is good for whatever your backing credit / debit card limits are.

Google wallet does not use EMV.