Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

peharri

macrumors 6502a
Dec 22, 2003
744
0
This is true, Verizion does not want unrestricted phones on their network, they simply want you to pay for everything. However, if you have an activated SIM card you can plug it into another phone. Verizon has been refusing to activitate a phone if it does not support E911 services like gps location. The question will be is if the Apple phone has the GPS chip set as well.

FWIW, the CDMA (or rather IS-95/IS-2000/etc - AMPS with a Qualcomm air interface) version of the SIM card is the R-UIM. This technology hasn't been deployed by any US carriers, and I'm not sure it's even possible to get an R-UIM from Verizon or Sprint.

So those stuck with IS-95 and its successors (Verizon, Sprint PCS, Alltel, etc): you'll only be able to activate your phone if your carrier gives you permission. I've heard contradictory things about most of them, I believe they're more liberal than they used to be, though apparently Sprint PCS has a policy of not activating any phones sold by their MVNO partners and their MVNO partners are not allowed to activate phones branded by Sprint PCS. (The shortsightedness of such policies astounds me, but there you have it.)

Thankfully for US cellphone users there's T-Mobile, and Cingular when you can't get a T-Mobile signal.
 

Maestro64

macrumors regular
Jan 5, 2005
208
0
Philadelphia
i see how sim cards are def useful but CDMA and verizon are def the best in the US, my calls are all crystal clear, never dropped and i get service allover. my friends with Cingular have all sorts of issues. Plus GSM phones make all household electronics make a weird buzz noise when a call comes in (tv's, radios, etc) whereas CDMA causes no such interference. I wish there was somethin new and global and not tied to some damn carrier here. Cingulars prices are insane, especially for data and txt plans which arent even unlimited in network:mad:

I have seen the same problem, however it is not with every GSM phone, and it appears to be only with Cingular. I am not sure why this is. I have t-mobile and a RAZR and it does not cause the same problem as friend who has Cingular and RAZR. We swapped phones and changed out SIM cards and the problem stayed with Cingular.

Interesting part of the interference is it only seems to happen right before the phone rings, it is like it boosts its RF energy to recieve the call. So everytime the phone is about to ring you hear the interference and I say to my friend your phone is about to ring.
 

3282872

macrumors 6502a
Dec 11, 2006
821
0
if this rumor is true is interesting why Apple would leave so many millions of verizon and sprint subscribers behind.
I wonder with these same folks will become the "switch" iPhone advertising campaign.
We'll see. My Verizon is OK, I hope Cingular is not the carrier. T-Mobile maybe would make me "switch".
Or another possibility will be Apple with their own network, so we all can tell the cell carriers to go to hell!:eek:

Keep in mind, Verizon has a reputation of taking their time in approving phones for use. Recall that Verizon approved the RAZR a year after it was officially released and available through Cingular. Odds are Apple does not want to wait a year for Verizon to test any phones before it is "approved" for use (and by "approve" that usually means finding ways to cripple features such as OBEX and other aspects Verizon does not want customers to use). Apple may also want to grant availability to its international customers as GSM capability is internationally compliant.
 

DVK916

macrumors regular
Jan 5, 2006
148
0
If you travel internationally on a regular basis, or if you need to use your phone anywhere outside of North America, good luck on a CDMA network. Cingular already has 3G phones (such as LG's newest 3G model) that out perform Verizon's 3G units. CDMA is NOT faster, in fact it is proving to be slower. The only reason Verizon MAY have better sound quality is due to it's aggressive tactics in acquiring more towers. In fact, Verizon has faced numerous lawsuits alleging subpar business tactics in acquiring towers in many area's of the U.S. Let's not forget Verizon's business tactics in crippling the OBEX in all their phones, forcing customers to pay for services such as "Get It Now" to download ringtones and pics (that also expire after certain periods). Their customer service ratings are dropping almost daily. If Verizon doesn't get over themselves and learn to "play nice", I don't see much good in their future.



Wow you clearly have no idea what you are talking. CDMA is much faster than GSM, and no Cingular newest 3G model isn't faster, infact it has been shown to be much slower.
 

SciTeach

macrumors regular
Apr 18, 2006
103
0
NEK
I have a prediction....

On a certain day of the week, in a certain month, in a certain year, Apple will release some gizmo (insert favorite electronic device for gizmo) which will be the best thing since sliced bread.


......Until they update it.......

......On a certain day of the week, in a certain month.....:rolleyes: :p


Please post every single day.:D :rolleyes:
 

DVK916

macrumors regular
Jan 5, 2006
148
0
With Sprint and Verizon upgrading to CDMA EVDO Rev A, which should be complete by end of 2007, the upload will be over 3 times as fast as what Cingular has.
 

gugy

macrumors 68040
Jan 31, 2005
3,891
5,308
La Jolla, CA
Keep in mind, Verizon has a reputation of taking their time in approving phones for use. Recall that Verizon approved the RAZR a year after it was officially released and available through Cingular. Odds are Apple does not want to wait a year for Verizon to test any phones before it is "approved" for use (and by "approve" that usually means finding ways to cripple features such as OBEX and other aspects Verizon does not want customers to use). Apple may also want to grant availability to its international customers as GSM capability is internationally compliant.


I am just fine in switching to GSM. I just HOPE Cingular is not the only iPhone GSM carrier. That would be very bad for me. Cingular in Southern California is sucks. Specially in San Diego.
Verizon at least allows me to talk at my office and at my home. Cingular never let me do that. That's, why I pray to Cingular not be the one.
 

peharri

macrumors 6502a
Dec 22, 2003
744
0
I have seen the same problem, however it is not with everyone GSM phone, and it appears to be only with Cingular. I am not sure why this is. I have t-mobile and a RAZR and it does not cause the same problem as friend who has Cingular and RAZR. We swapped phones and changed out SIM cards and the problem stayed with Cingular.

Interesting part of the interference is it only seems to happen right before the phone rings, it is like it boosts its RF energy to recieve the call. So everytime the phone is about to ring you hear the interference and I say to my friend your phone is about to ring.

It's quite simple, and it's the same kind of issue as Sprint PCS vs Verizon, both of whom also use the same technology but have radically different reputations for quality.

Both T-Mobile and Cingular use GSM. However, GSM can be implemented in a variety of ways. Cingular (both Orange and Blue - AT&T) started off with AMPS networks. These were then upgraded to D-AMPS, solely to increase capacity. D-AMPS, frankly, had no future, and Cingular upgraded to GSM to get it on the path that eventually leads to UMTS (3G GSM) and enlightenment.

There was an issue however. Cingular had managed the growth of its network by simply choosing a more efficient technology, D-AMPS, to carry calls. D-AMPS gives 3x as much capacity as AMPS. So just by upgrading its towers, you get 3x as many calls per tower. GSM doesn't work like that. GSM's advantage over analog from a capacity point of view is that it allows you to use smaller and smaller cells, covering an area with more towers, without interference. (It also manages interference better, so you can use more of the spectrum.) This makes a certain amount of sense, but if you're upgrading from D-AMPS to GSM, you immediately go back to having nearly 1/3 as much capacity as you did to start with.

Enter Half Rate, the cheap band-aid for overloaded GSM networks. Half rate uses a more efficient codec (there are two, HR, and AMR-HR) but in exchange for not terribly good call quality when reception is good, and lousy quality (barely usable) when reception is bad. This, however, improves capacity 100% as two calls can be squeezed into the same space as an ordinary GSM call, so you're now down to only 2/3 as much capacity as your old D-AMPS network, rather than 1/3.

Cingular started running out of capacity, so they switched much of their network to AMR-HR. And that's why Cingular isn't that great at the moment.

T-Mobile, on the other hand, started off as a pure GSM network. It's been fairly sane in managing its growth, so it hasn't needed the HR "bandaid" and call quality is pretty good, considering.

Verizon and Sprint PCS also have the same issues, albeit for different reasons. Verizon has managed its growth well (and only went from AMPS to C-AMPS (IS-95), so hasn't faced a sudden drop in capacity). Sprint PCS, on the other hand, seems to have a phobia about putting up new towers, and believed the hype at the end of the 1990s about CDMA having "infinite" capacity and other such nonsense. So call drops, "ballooning", and poor quality, at peak periods seems to be fairly common for Sprint PCS users.

The current two technologies used throughout the US, GSM and IS-95, are generally very good in quality terms when properly implemented, and absolutely diabolical when the operator is "cheap".

As an aside, you'll note that this message will get a bunch of replies along the lines of "Well, I use Cingular and it's awesome!", "T-Mobile is teh suck!", "Sprint PCS never drops calls on me!", "Verizon's awful". This is because all these networks have areas where they're well implemented and others where they fall below common expectations. On average though...
 

TheNipponese

macrumors newbie
Dec 3, 2006
9
0
Wow you clearly have no idea what you are talking. CDMA is much faster than GSM, and no Cingular newest 3G model isn't faster, infact it has been shown to be much slower.

Uhhh, sike. Looks up the specs on CDMA2000 and UMTS, I think you will be disappointed.
 

3282872

macrumors 6502a
Dec 11, 2006
821
0
Wow you clearly have no idea what you are talking. CDMA is much faster than GSM, and no Cingular newest 3G model isn't faster, infact it has been shown to be much slower.

Actually, you're wrong. Cingular may have been behind Verizon in 3G development, but the latest phones (which have only been released in the past few weeks/days and in limited 3G markets such as Atlanta and NYC) are proving their worth. Cingular’s 3G network is the first widely available service in the world to use HSDPA (High Speed Downlink Packet Access) technology. HSDPA is the high-speed evolution of GSM/EDGE (Global System for Mobile Communication/Enhanced Data Rates for Global Evolution), which shares a common core network. GSM is the world’s most popular wireless technology, which is used by more than one billion people in 210 countries. Cingular's 3G network is currently available in 18 major markets serving 54 communities and provides average download data speeds between 400-700 kilobits per second with bursts to over one megabit. GPRS is pretty slow. EGPRS(EDGE) is much faster. UMTS faster yet. HSDPA faster yet. Cingular now uses HSDPA...

and I don't know what I'm talking about? Please, show some respect when addressing people...
 

SilvorX

macrumors 68000
May 24, 2002
1,701
0
'Toba, Canada
No iden products are done in the chiago area, even thou Verizon and Sprint are CDMA they both work differently. In order to make CDMA phone work with sprints networks other things need to be done. Thus the reason you pointed out above a Sprint CDMA phone can not be activitated on Verizon. Which is very different than GSM where you can move a phone from one GSM provider to another by simply changing SIM cards.

Sprint's Nextel carrier has iDen coverage in Chicago, possibly even sell phones there but I've never been out there so I can't speak for myself.

I knew for years that Sprint's phones cannot be ran on Verizon ;)

But anywho, I just feel that Apple will end up releasing a CDMA version sooner or later, it just seems to be common sense, Motorola disappeared from the CDMA market for a large period of time, but they're back now, even on Sprint, but Motorola isn't Apple. It just depends on what the demand is.. but us Apple fans will buy it no matter what
 

3282872

macrumors 6502a
Dec 11, 2006
821
0
As an aside, you'll note that this message will get a bunch of replies along the lines of "Well, I use Cingular and it's awesome!", "T-Mobile is teh suck!", "Sprint PCS never drops calls on me!", "Verizon's awful". This is because all these networks have areas where they're well implemented and others where they fall below common expectations. On average though...

I've used Sprint in Boston and Los Angeles in the 90's, Verizon in Boston, Los Angeles, New York City and the upstate NY for seven years and now Cingular in upstate NY and New York City. To be honest, they're all good. In my experience, call qualities were reasonable to excellent. In most cases, it comes down to splitting hairs. Ultimately, customer service, phone model availability, and international coverage seem to be the deciding factors for a lot of people. If you're a tech geek, network dl rates and availability will also factor greatly.
 

DVK916

macrumors regular
Jan 5, 2006
148
0
Actually, you're wrong. Cingular may have been behind Verizon in 3G development, but the latest phones (which have only been released in the past few weeks/days and in limited 3G markets such as Atlanta and NYC) are proving their worth. Cingular’s 3G network is the first widely available service in the world to use HSDPA (High Speed Downlink Packet Access) technology. HSDPA is the high-speed evolution of GSM/EDGE (Global System for Mobile Communication/Enhanced Data Rates for Global Evolution), which shares a common core network. GSM is the world’s most popular wireless technology, which is used by more than one billion people in 210 countries. Cingular's 3G network is currently available in 18 major markets serving 54 communities and provides average download data speeds between 400-700 kilobits per second with bursts to over one megabit. GPRS is pretty slow. EGPRS(EDGE) is much faster. UMTS faster yet. HSDPA faster yet. Cingular now uses HSDPA...

and I don't know what I'm talking about? Please, show some respect when addressing people...


EVDO Rev A which sprint has rolled out in 12 markets so far offers speeds of 800-1000 kilobits down, and 300-400 up versus a measly 50-100 for Cingular. I am referring to average speeds too not max. EVDO specs are just as fast as HSDPA.


Current Rev 0 for sprint and verizon has speeds of between 400-700 too, so it isn't slower.


FYI GSM used in the U.S and Europe is NOT compatible with the one used in Japan. You can't use your phone in Japan.
 

Stridder44

macrumors 68040
Mar 24, 2003
3,973
198
California
I have a prediction....

On a certain day of the week, in a certain month, in a certain year, Apple will release some gizmo (insert favorite electronic device for gizmo) which will be the best thing since sliced bread.


......Until they update it.......

......On a certain day of the week, in a certain month.....:rolleyes: :p


Please post every single day.:D :rolleyes:


No kidding. Everyday it Pete meets Repeat. Or in this case, iPhone rumor meets iPhone rumor #7
 

nick.hill

macrumors newbie
Sep 14, 2003
12
0
Gibraltar
I think the UK networks will love the non subsidy approach. The are desperate to wean people off the "free" phone syndrome. The "halo" effect and kudos of apple is proabaly one of the only brands that could do this.

I loved the Idea that joshysquashy had, give people some credit or discount to encourage unlocked buyers to the network.

We may find that the networks will help Apple out in the marketing as a way of meeting their endgoal.. Real priced phones.

I really think it would be a GSM device, would be silly for them to lock it into one/two area's. Once it's established im confident other variations will follow. If its new make it available to the widest audience you can!
 

3282872

macrumors 6502a
Dec 11, 2006
821
0
EVDO Rev A which sprint has rolled out in 12 markets so far offers speeds of 800-1000 kilobits down, and 300-400 up versus a measly 50-100 for Cingular. I am referring to average speeds too not max. EVDO specs are just as fast as HSDPA.


Current Rev 0 for sprint and verizon has speeds of between 400-700 too, so it isn't slower.


FYI GSM used in the U.S and Europe is NOT compatible with the one used in Japan. You can't use your phone in Japan.

Again, "Cingular's 3G network is currently available in 18 major markets serving 54 communities and provides average download data speeds between 400-700 kilobits per second with bursts to over one megabit."
 

DVK916

macrumors regular
Jan 5, 2006
148
0
Again, "Cingular's 3G network is currently available in 18 major markets serving 54 communities and provides average download data speeds between 400-700 kilobits per second with bursts to over one megabit."



Again that is SLOWER than Sprint Rev A network and Verizon rev A network.
 

dernhelm

macrumors 68000
May 20, 2002
1,649
137
middle earth
Well, I am glad I'm not the only one who doesn't care.

You aren't. There's a bunch of us but we care so little that even posting "we don't care" is too often more work than it's worth! :)

And at the prices being bandied about, I couldn't afford one anyway...
 

aristobrat

macrumors G5
Oct 14, 2005
12,292
1,403
Keep in mind, Verizon has a reputation of taking their time in approving phones for use. Recall that Verizon approved the RAZR a year after it was officially released and available through Cingular.
Testing's usually not all of the reason for the delay.

With BlackBerrys, RIM always develops and delivers the GSM first -- the worldwide market is much larger than CDMA.

It's usually several months after the GSM version was released before they release a CDMA one, which makes it seem like Sprint/Verizon take forever to release new BlackBerrys.
 

dernhelm

macrumors 68000
May 20, 2002
1,649
137
middle earth
I will gladly wait 50 years for this phone to be released... knowing Apple it is going to be that good

Really? Have you seen a mobile phone that is only 20 years old?

Enroute_Portsmouth_NH_1986_small.jpg


Even Apple couldn't have fixed that!
 

3282872

macrumors 6502a
Dec 11, 2006
821
0
Again that is SLOWER than Sprint Rev A network and Verizon rev A network.

Those networks aren't even out yet, so how do you know they will be? Those specs are pre-release, and as anyone knows companies will always give "best case scenario" specs as opposed to "real world".

Verizon press release:
12/14/06
A little more on the rumor yesterday that Verizon Wireless was planning to officially launch EVDO Revision A upgrades in ten markets this Friday: "We’ve had a number of communities lit up with Rev. A for a few months, and expect to introduce a first PC card in the coming weeks," says a Verizon Wireless Spokesman to GigaOM's Katie Fehrenbacher. "We won’t be announcing a launch of Rev. A until we hit a significant number of markets up and running, though." It doesn't sound like Friday as a launch date sounds too promising, but stay tuned.

As part of our continued efforts to bring you the best service possible, we will begin upgrading our high-speed wireless broadband network in February 2007. In order to continue to enjoy all the great benefits of BroadbandAccess, customers with affected PC Cards and PDAs will need to download the appropriate software upgrade. Without this important software upgrade, your PC Card or PDA will no longer be able to connect to BroadbandAccess effective February 2007. Please read the following information to see if your PC Card or PDA requires an update.

Wireless Technologies
Edge CDMA2000/1 x EV-DO WCDMA/UMTS
Standard 2.5G 3G 3G
Usage WWAN WWAN WWAN
Throughput Max 384Kbps Max 2.4 Mbps Max 2Mbps
(typical 300-600Kbps) (Up to 10Mbps with
HSDPA technology)
Range Typical 1-5 miles Typical 1-5 miles Typical 1-5 miles
Frequency 1900MHz 400, 800, 900, 1700, 1800, 1900, 2100MHz
1800, 1900, 2100MHz

Again, UP TO 10MBPS WITH HSDPA TECHNOLOGY. Verizon and Sprint do not have HSDPA.


In a press release, Nortel said it and Qualcomm have successfully achieved 7.2 megabits per second (Mbps) mobile data calls based on the Universal Mobile Telephone System - High Speed Downlink Packet Access (UMTS-HSDPA) standard. The companies plan to demonstrate high-resolution video streaming enabled by the turbo-speed throughput during CTIA Wireless 2006 in Las Vegas , April 5-7 (already happened).

The news is a big help for network operators like Cingular (News - Alert) Wireless, which has placed bets on Qualcomm’s HSDPA solutions to provide the technology roadmap for the video and multimedia offerings of tomorrow.

Moreover, the actual specs for RVDO Rev A show so far Sprint leads by just a margin in time to market it's 10-city launch of its EVDO Rev A network yesterday. Customers in major cities like San Francisco, New York City and Los Angeles will be able to get average upload speeds of 300-400 kbps (compared with 50-70 kbps of current EV-DO networks) and an average download speed of 450–800 kbps.

Cingular HSDPA at 7.2 MBPS compared to 2, maybe 3, MBPS (IF all conditions are met to establish a perfect connection) seems a big difference to me...

Look, this is ridiculous, both technologies are keeping up with the other. Cingular, Sprint, Verizon, WHO CARES. The point is, all three companies are leading the market. The difference is the markets they cover. Cingular is international and DOES WORK IN JAPAN. You can rent phones in Japan and use your Cingular SIM card.

http://forums.cingular.com/cng/board/message?board.id=international&message.id=2151

http://forums.cingular.com/cng/board/message?board.id=international&message.id=1185

You can not use Verizon or Sprint in anywhere but North America. As I travel internationally, it is a HUGE difference for me. Over 1 Billion people use GSM. Verizon and Sprint are NOT international. That's a big difference. Until they are, who cares what their DL speeds are? Americans? Pffft.
 

JMax1

macrumors 6502
Oct 17, 2006
424
1
Harlem, NY
I Like

I like all these iPhone rumors. In fact, I like all the rumors. It's one of the big reasons why I come to MacRumors. Actually, I think it's the only reason. It's neat to read up about all the speculation on everything. I like hearing about everyone ideas on how something should be made, run, sold... I'm just thinking about all the rumors that have come and gone in the past few years I've been reading the posts (and just recently joined) and it's all just pretty cool. Call me a geek, I guess, but even if nothing comes out of the iPhone, or if it completely bombs, I dont care. I like just imagining.

And it's also fun to watch people try to one-up each other with "actually, youre wrong." "no, you're wrong" "you clearly have no idea what you're talking about" "my dad can beat up your dad"
 

Squonk

macrumors 65816
Mar 15, 2005
1,370
14
I like all these iPhone rumors. In fact, I like all the rumors. It's one of the big reasons why I come to MacRumors. Actually, I think it's the only reason. It's neat to read up about all the speculation on everything. I like hearing about everyone ideas on how something should be made, run, sold... I'm just thinking about all the rumors that have come and gone in the past few years I've been reading the posts (and just recently joined) and it's all just pretty cool. Call me a geek, I guess, but even if nothing comes out of the iPhone, or if it completely bombs, I dont care. I like just imagining.

And it's also fun to watch people try to one-up each other with "actually, youre wrong." "no, you're wrong" "you clearly have no idea what you're talking about" "my dad can beat up your dad"

Ditto!! And just you wait until my sister gets home...

How about some more photoshopped phones! How about twist on the original bag phone where it becomes the MacBook Thin Phone that can play movies too! :D
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.