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gloss
macrumors 601
In Belgium we buy phones without a contract. Phones that are tied to a contract (or contracts to a phone whatever) are illegal. It's just simple customer protection. The provider can't lock you into using the phones they want.
AFAIK it's the only country in the world were locked phones are illegal. It's has it's advantages and disadvantages. Except for maybe some Scandinavian countries ? Not sure about this. Can't be bothered to research it.
SactoGuy18
macrumors 603
In my humble opinion, I think Apple will choose Cingular (soon to be AT&T Wireless) as its provider for the iPhone. After all, Cingular did sell a cellphone that worked with iTunes....
For voice communications, I like Cingular because they have strong signals all over the populated areas in California. 🙂
For voice communications, I like Cingular because they have strong signals all over the populated areas in California. 🙂
I stand by my initial thought that it will be an unlocked GSM phone. Apple (Steve) likes to be in full control. I don't see them allowing other companies to mess with their product.
And I reallly hope that it isn't some huge smartphone with a qwerty/azerty keyboard. They're pointless. Predictive text input works flawlessly. Keep it small and, especially, light. Nothing worse than a heavy cell phone (+110g).
Oh and quad band would be nice.
All it needs for me is:
Quad Band
HSDPA/EDGE/Whatever 3G crap
Bluetooth
Good calendar feature
notes feature (stickies !)
Music player
Full SMS/MMS support
Good predictive input
That is ALL it needs. And to be honest that's exactly what the first iPhone is going to be (except for maybe the Quad band) IMHO.
And I reallly hope that it isn't some huge smartphone with a qwerty/azerty keyboard. They're pointless. Predictive text input works flawlessly. Keep it small and, especially, light. Nothing worse than a heavy cell phone (+110g).
Oh and quad band would be nice.
All it needs for me is:
Quad Band
HSDPA/EDGE/Whatever 3G crap
Bluetooth
Good calendar feature
notes feature (stickies !)
Music player
Full SMS/MMS support
Good predictive input
That is ALL it needs. And to be honest that's exactly what the first iPhone is going to be (except for maybe the Quad band) IMHO.
You hit the nail right on the head. Don't tell any American's that, they'll get defensive and start to argue. "Yeah, well, my daddy can beat up your daddy." lol Truly pathetic.
No, you misunderstood me. We also may buy phones without a contract or unlocked here in CH, as well as pretty much anywhere else in the world. But, in my opinion, advantages are close to zero without an abonnement.
My v3i serves me perfectly well, has a great design and Sunrise's service in CH is very good. No way I would pay 300 bucks more for a phone without a contract, because I gain NOTHING from that, unless I wanna change operators every 3 months, which is nonsense...that's the reality in Europe, for anyone who wants a non-prepaid plan.
As long as it's unlocked it's great. The big problem is that a lot of telcos tend to lock their phones and change the software and cripple the phone's features. And that's a bad thing. It's great if your telco doesn't cripple your phone. But a lot of them do. And the selection of phones isn't always great.
The only thing I was saying is that the market is a little bit different here. 🙂
I absolutely agree though that if you aren't changing operators every few months it doesn't matter all that much. As long as the phone isn't locked ! Locked/propietary firmware cellphones are evil !
Out of curiosity, how well do the carriers handle supporting devices that aren't theirs. If you buy a phone from provider A in Belgium and switch to provider B, and provider B doesn't sell that model of phone, are you out of luck if you can't get your GPRS settings to work?
I'm just wondering how that scales.
Cingular and Verizon each have 5x more customers than the entire population of Belguim.
You are bound by contracts, not SIM-locks. Therefore, if you want out before the expiration of the contract, you pay a fee...that's how providers keep the customers and ensure revenue in case of bail-outs.
Indeed, practically every provider in the civilized mobile world (South America, Europe and Japan) has GSM; in consequence, most models work out of the box with anyone...you just change the SIM and go.
digitalbiker
macrumors 65816
These things tend to run in cycles. Every 10 to 20 years, technology makes a serious quantum jump which is not backward compatible with the old system.
One decade a country leads the others with the best technology, then that technolgy ages, and other countries that didn't have an existing infrastrcture, update with a newer better technolgy. Ten years later that existing technolgy bogs down the infrastructure in those countries and the first country by that time has re-vamped the entire infrastructure and it leads once again.
We will see where Europe is in 10 to 20 years, and where the US is in 10 to 20 years.
We just seem to be out of sync. I guess what we need is a giant isnyc app that keeps us all on the same page. But then, who would we find to mock? ??The Martians??
It's not like the United State's largest carrier isn't GSM. 😉
Regarding using unbranded phones, after changing the SIM, voice and SMS will work, but configuring data and MMS on a non-carrier branded phone is a tedious process, and if you run into problems, other than giving you the proper settings, the carriers don't offer support.
i.e. If you correctly type in T-Mobile's MMS WAP IP gateway, APN name, and Messaging Server and your non-branded phone can't send MMS, they won't offer additional support.
Below are typical steps to get a data connection setup on a non-T-Mobile phone. I just can't imagine Apple selling unlocked, unbranded phones and expect the owners to have to type this in to get their new iPhone to connect to the Internet on T-Mobile, or type something similar to get it working on Cingular.
Code:
Setting up the proxy
1. On the handset, press the Start button.
2. Scroll to Settings and press the joystick button.
3. Scroll to More and press the joystick button.
4. Scroll to Data Connections and press the joystick button.
5. Press the Menu button.
6. Highlight Edit Connections and press the joystick button.
7. Scroll to Proxy Connections and press the joystick button.
8. Press the Menu button.
9. Highlight Add and press the joystick button.
10. In the Description: field field, enter T-Zones.
11. Scroll to Connects from: field and press the joystick button.
12. Scroll to The Internet and press Done.
13. Scroll to Connects to: field and press the joystick button.
14. Scroll to WAP Network and press Done.
15. Scroll to Proxy (name:port) : field and enter 216.155.165.050:9201 or Permanent, non-secure.
16. Scroll to Type: field and press the joystick button.
17. Scroll to WAP and press Done.
18. Scroll to User name: field and enter . Otherwise leave this field blank.
19. Scroll to Password: field and enter . Otherwise leave this field blank.
20. Press Done 5 times
21. Press Home to return to the main screen
Setting up the data account
1. On the handset, press the Start button.
2. Scroll to Settings and press the joystick button.
3. Scroll to More and press the joystick button.
4. Scroll to Data Connections and press the joystick button.
5. Press the Menu button.
6. Highlight Edit Connections and press the joystick button.
7. Scroll to GPRS Connections and press the joystick button.
8. Press the Menu button.
9. Highlight Add and press the joystick button.
10. In the Description: field, enter T-Zones.
11. Scroll to Connects to: field and press the joystick button.
12. Scroll to The Internet and press Done.
13. Scroll to Access Point: field and enter wap.voicestream.com.
14. Scroll to User name: field and enter . Otherwise leave this field blank.
15. Scroll to Password: field and enter . Otherwise leave this field blank.
16. Scroll to Primary DNS: field and enter . Otherwise leave this field blank.
17. Scroll to Secondary DNS: field and enter . Otherwise leave this field blank.
18. Press Done 3 times to return to the Data Connections menu.
19. Scroll to WAP connection: field and press the joystick button.
20. Scroll to T-Zones and press the joystick button.
21. Press Done twice.
22. Press the Home button to return to the main screen.
The new WAP profile is now configured and ready for use.
ravenvii
macrumors 604
Maybe Apple will provide preexisting profiles, and when the phone first boots, you would go through a process similar to the OS X setup assistant, and be asked which network you are using, after which the OS will be automatically configured accordingly.
They would have to... In order to get a full range of data services and extended capabilities across multiple networks, at least here in the states, they will have to supply user assistance. There are some providers who also don't allow subscription or use of some of their extended services when using an unlocked or third-party phone. Verizon is a prime example, they will activate an unlocked phone on their network as long as it supports E911, but unless it's a phone model they specifically sell/support, they don't typically allow access to data services and other extended features. ...As if VCast is really a selling point to buy a phone through them. 🙄
But I think not only would Apple have to strike arrangements with most major carriers here in North America (probably elsewhere too), but they will also have to pre-load the iPhone with setup/install profiles that can essentially auto-configure the phone for whatever carrier it's being linked to. It actually wouldnt' be that big of a task... The big task at hand is getting multiple carriers to openly embrace an unlocked phone that provides full access to internet services and media like iTunes, circumventing their own subscription services. ...I could see the iPhone being non-subsidized and the plan prices still being the same as with any other phone - so the carrier's aren't out any money (or at least not out of any money that they think they would be getting).
Maybe it will look like this (I hope not).
Read the article here (in Swedish): http://macworld.idg.se/ArticlePages/200612/17/20061217104411_MW/20061217104411_MW.dbp.asp
A smartphone would be the best I think!
Read the article here (in Swedish): http://macworld.idg.se/ArticlePages/200612/17/20061217104411_MW/20061217104411_MW.dbp.asp
A smartphone would be the best I think!
Dr.Gargoyle
macrumors 65816
Do the math
ok, now after I have read ALL recent posts regarding the illusive iPhone, I must say I am bit baffled. Many OP on this, otherwise very knowledgeable, forum seem to miss the fact that regardless whether you buy your phone unlocked without a plan or you get your phone for free when you sign up for a plan, you do pay for the phone. It is just a question if you want to pay the phone upfront or through small payments each month.
Here in Europe we have small MVNO that basically operates according to BYOP (bring-your-own-phone) and charge a substantially lower minute cost. There should be MVNO like that in US too
Now just do the math. Check how much you pay in total for x minutes with a free, or subsidized, cellphone y, and compare it other alternatives. You will approximately end up with the same total sum.
It is basically just different business plans. Don't get tricked by this version of "three-cards". Network operators are out there to make money and they will shuffle the cards so you think you will get a much better deal with them, when you in fact pay more or less the same regardless of which option you choose.
ok, now after I have read ALL recent posts regarding the illusive iPhone, I must say I am bit baffled. Many OP on this, otherwise very knowledgeable, forum seem to miss the fact that regardless whether you buy your phone unlocked without a plan or you get your phone for free when you sign up for a plan, you do pay for the phone. It is just a question if you want to pay the phone upfront or through small payments each month.
Here in Europe we have small MVNO that basically operates according to BYOP (bring-your-own-phone) and charge a substantially lower minute cost. There should be MVNO like that in US too
Now just do the math. Check how much you pay in total for x minutes with a free, or subsidized, cellphone y, and compare it other alternatives. You will approximately end up with the same total sum.
It is basically just different business plans. Don't get tricked by this version of "three-cards". Network operators are out there to make money and they will shuffle the cards so you think you will get a much better deal with them, when you in fact pay more or less the same regardless of which option you choose.
In the US, regardless of if you bring your own phone to a carrier, buy a heavily-subsidized phone from a carrier, or buy a phone from a carrier with no subsidy, the plans cost the same.
There is no discount/reward/perk given to people that bring their own phone or buy a non-subsidized phone. i.e. if you want 600 anytime minutes + unlimited nights/weekends on T-Mobile, it's $39.99/month regardless of how you got your phone. Same for the other carriers.
In the end, you end up paying the most if you DON'T take advantage of the carriers subsidies.
Dr.Gargoyle
macrumors 65816
Meaning you don't have any independent MVNO in US? 😕
If that is true, I am truly surprised that no one has realized how money that are to be made in just selling minutes. Very odd, indeed. Who knows, That might be Apples game plan. Become MVNO that only sell cheap minutes. Just bring your own phone and get a good deal on the minutes.
In either case, it is very odd that no one has seen this opportunity before.
a456
macrumors 6502a
It will soon be Christmas day and if you already have a Mac and an iPod there is very little else that Apple offers at the moment to fill your stocking. Sure a C2D iMac or MBP would be nice, but you don't really need it. An 80GB iPod would be great but your iPod still does its job. The rumors about an iPhone therefore are a primal scream from the Mac faithful that we want something new, the next big thing, the revolutionary gadget that will make the world a better place and change the styling of everything from teapots to toasters from cars to caravans and all the things in between. DON'T MAKE US WAIT UNTIL JANUARY is the collective shout. Unfortunately Apple makes us wait and then they make us wait that little bit longer. Whether all the waiting is necessary or whether it is in part a marketing ploy who knows, but many people's stomachs are tied in knots waiting and we can't even buy a Wii to get over the need to buy something, because there are none available, though Nintendo taunt us on our televisions with adverts for their games.
Apple is too secretive.
I am beginning to think that Apple is taking their secrecy too far.
I think it's to their detriment, but there are counter-arguments. On the one hand secrecy lends itself to sites like this, and probably enhances the excitement people feel about Apple products. No other companies have "fanboys" quite like Apple does.
Like an SAT question, I'd equate: Rumors are to Apple as Piracy is to Adobe. Both companies publicly decry it, but actually they both benefit from it, at least to some degree. (I'm convinced that Adobe doesn't try too hard to stop piracy because all the kiddies who steal it, like myself back in the day, learned how to use it instead of, say, Corel or GIMP, and now those kids are professionals and will only buy Adobe because it's the best and it's what they know. In fact, sounds a little like Apple's heyday in the education market.)
However, while secrecy may be good for something like iTV or some speaker system, I don't think it's good for their iPhone product. Especially not now that everyone is talking about. Some people like myself are in the market now for a new phone. I'm waiting for the iPhone. If it's not at least announced at MacWorld I will actually be upset.
Some will say I shouldn't be so invested in a silly device, but there'd be no problem if Apple were just a little more transparent. Apple will neither confirm nor deny this product. I love my MBP (I'm a switcher) and I badly want a good phone that syncs well with my Apple applications. That's why I'm willing to wait. However right now I'm on edge because maybe Apple's developing a phone, maybe they're not, maybe they were but aren't going to release it, maybe I should go ahead and buy another phone because mine is falling apart, maybe they are going to release a phone tomorrow, maybe in a month, maybe in six months, maybe it's going to be the perfect phone that meets my every expectation, maybe they'll release one and it won't be so great and I'll end up buying another phone anyway: point is, Apple's secrecy makes it difficult for myself and other consumers to plan expensive purchases. I'll happily and patiently wait if Apple confirms the phone. I'll peacefully go buy a different phone if Apple states they're not going to release this thing. But they won't say either way, so I'm frustrated.
Fundamentally my point is that Apple can be too secretive. Most of the time they're secrecy is harmless (though financial analysts may beg to differ), at times it's even beneficial, but for the iPhone their secrecy is becoming an albatross. It's in everyone's best interest for Apple to give some indication about the project. I hope they do so at MacWorld. If they don't I guess the thing to do is move on and forget about Apple.
On an aside, this gives me some idea why IT managers seem to dislike working with Apple--they can't plan product purchases and deployments efficiently because Apple is so damn secretive. As Apple's market share grows, this will become a larger and greater problem.
G
I am beginning to think that Apple is taking their secrecy too far.
I think it's to their detriment, but there are counter-arguments. On the one hand secrecy lends itself to sites like this, and probably enhances the excitement people feel about Apple products. No other companies have "fanboys" quite like Apple does.
Like an SAT question, I'd equate: Rumors are to Apple as Piracy is to Adobe. Both companies publicly decry it, but actually they both benefit from it, at least to some degree. (I'm convinced that Adobe doesn't try too hard to stop piracy because all the kiddies who steal it, like myself back in the day, learned how to use it instead of, say, Corel or GIMP, and now those kids are professionals and will only buy Adobe because it's the best and it's what they know. In fact, sounds a little like Apple's heyday in the education market.)
However, while secrecy may be good for something like iTV or some speaker system, I don't think it's good for their iPhone product. Especially not now that everyone is talking about. Some people like myself are in the market now for a new phone. I'm waiting for the iPhone. If it's not at least announced at MacWorld I will actually be upset.
Some will say I shouldn't be so invested in a silly device, but there'd be no problem if Apple were just a little more transparent. Apple will neither confirm nor deny this product. I love my MBP (I'm a switcher) and I badly want a good phone that syncs well with my Apple applications. That's why I'm willing to wait. However right now I'm on edge because maybe Apple's developing a phone, maybe they're not, maybe they were but aren't going to release it, maybe I should go ahead and buy another phone because mine is falling apart, maybe they are going to release a phone tomorrow, maybe in a month, maybe in six months, maybe it's going to be the perfect phone that meets my every expectation, maybe they'll release one and it won't be so great and I'll end up buying another phone anyway: point is, Apple's secrecy makes it difficult for myself and other consumers to plan expensive purchases. I'll happily and patiently wait if Apple confirms the phone. I'll peacefully go buy a different phone if Apple states they're not going to release this thing. But they won't say either way, so I'm frustrated.
Fundamentally my point is that Apple can be too secretive. Most of the time they're secrecy is harmless (though financial analysts may beg to differ), at times it's even beneficial, but for the iPhone their secrecy is becoming an albatross. It's in everyone's best interest for Apple to give some indication about the project. I hope they do so at MacWorld. If they don't I guess the thing to do is move on and forget about Apple.
On an aside, this gives me some idea why IT managers seem to dislike working with Apple--they can't plan product purchases and deployments efficiently because Apple is so damn secretive. As Apple's market share grows, this will become a larger and greater problem.
G
Well, considering the number of non-disclosure forms we've had to sign in my IT department to see other manufacturers "secret" product roadmaps, I highly doubt that Apple business reps aren't keeping their business customers in the product loop, not that the iPhone would be a product most businesses would care about.
I don't think so... They're no more secretive than a lot of other large companies in other industries. What we have to consider is that we've all become used to common PC and electronics makers who flaunt their products long before they come available. Why do they do this? Because they're desperately trying to win your consumer dollars and always trying to stay one step ahead of their competitors, of which there are countless numbers.
In PC land, Intel announces a new CPU product. Immediately thereafter, PC vendors all start announcing upcoming products based on the new CPU product -- a good many of them even turn out to be vapor-ware or severely delayed. Apple doesn't see themselves as a cut-throat PC vendor... They're not going to play that game. Who cares if Dell was the first to announce notebooks based on the Core 2 Duo CPU line? They only beat Apple to market by a matter of about 5 weeks. Apple, while they took tons of criticism over this, still had 2GHz and faster C2D notebooks on the market *BEFORE* several big-name PC vendors -- primarily HP.
Right now, there are a number of us eagerly awaiting 8-core Mac Pro systems. It's hard to wait because Intel is shipping the quad-core Xeon (Clovertown) CPUs. But currently the *ONLY* PC vendor selling systems based on them is HP (Intel's Clovertown launch partner) and even with that, these systems are only available through their corporate channels and in limited quantities.
Apple just has a different approach to the market with their products. If they are in fact developing a new mobile phone product, they will announce it when they feel the time is right. Jobs and company are so confident in their products that they don't see a need to announce them months before they are available. They truly believe that when a product is ready, they will announce it and people buy it simply because it is a better product. And for the most part, this holds true. We all know that Apple has had a few duds, but what large electronics/computer company hasn't? Luckily the good outweighs the bad here buy a very large margin.
ITunes to be renamed
I predict that the iTunes store will be renamed this year. Maybe too iLife?
Also, I was thinking, when Apple introduces the new iPhone, how much revenue they will be able to generate with rings tones via iTunes. Another revenue stream for Apple!
What does everyone think of that?
I predict that the iTunes store will be renamed this year. Maybe too iLife?
Also, I was thinking, when Apple introduces the new iPhone, how much revenue they will be able to generate with rings tones via iTunes. Another revenue stream for Apple!
What does everyone think of that?
Squonk
macrumors 65816
I foresee Apple promoting the fact that when buying songs from iTMS, that the songs can be used as ringtones on the iFone. I don't see Apple selling another ringtone format. Heck, you can purchase the whole song for $.99.
But, here is a twist on the iFone - you can set a playlist to be your ringtone list and it will shuffle between them!
I think I see where you are going with the rename of iTMS since it will be the hub for music, movies, tv shows and phone integration, but I don't think iLife will be it since they have that already used. iTunes Media Store? Much like they have the iPod brand, I don't see them ditching on the iTunes brand either.