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More Mac OS X Builds, 10.3.9, Tiger.
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gopher said:
Much as I hate to get into a pissing contest, I will.
There is such a thing as context!
This thread is about OS X!
I find it hard (no impossible) to believe that anyone contemplating a "Clean Install" of OS X would think that means to rename the OS9 System Folder and do an update.
C'mon, we're all disappointed that Tiger is not released... but, really.
BTW, I can recall, back in 1956 (when I programmed my first computer) that a "Clean Install" meant any or all of:
1) Toss your old program and Keypunch a new one into punched cards
2) Remove all the patchcords from the control panel and rewire it.
3) Manually enter 1 and 0s by flipping bit switches
Now, that was a "Clean Install"!
dicklacara said:
I don't find it hard to believe since I've seen it numerous times in Apple Discussions and elsewhere. And to add to that confusion there are people who are attempting to upgrade to Mac OS X for the first time on machines that had Mac OS X preloaded but boot into Mac OS 9. These same people may find themselves desiring to upgrade to Mac OS X, and see Archive and Install on their installation screen and wonder what that means. There are still people migrating to Mac OS X for the first time, who still have a Mac OS 9 mindset. And since we are talking about the Mac OS, we need to consider that fact and use the terms that could affect any user who might be browsing the forum.
wdlove said:
I try to have fun, but then someone comes along and calls my post just a word game, when the method of installation can mean some very serious business. The number of people who think they have to erase and install Mac OS X to avoid problems is amazing. Erase and install is the last option and should only be exercised when no other options exist. Most of the time Archive and Install, or Install Mac OS X for the first time is the only thing you need to do.
I was merely upset that Dave didn't at the time comprehend why it was no word game, and I went to the trouble of spelling it out in the thread. I don't want to have to spell it out more than once.
I too am waiting Tiger's release but am not going to say much it unless it doesn't come out till July.
~loserman~ said:
They don't have to have a reason... they're Apple. Plus they're trying to throw the whole world off after the TS scandals. It's gone GM of that I am 100% certain. They are just taking their time in getting it to you. There is no rush on their part.
... and these people are reading this thread?gopher said:
gopher said:
... and one would expect them to read the install docs which explain the options
gopher said:
You may feel the need, but I don't -- any more than I feel the need to make sure my posts won't be misunderstood by translation into Urdu or Sanskrit.
Moderators aside, I think it is presumptuous for me (or anyone) to tell others what/how they must post to this forum.
dicklacara said:
One would expect, but then we wouldn't have questions like "is a clean install the best way to install Mac OS X?" If everyone who was reading the forums knew what the options were from the installer documentation, we wouldn't be seeing questions like "is a crankshaft the best way to start a car"?
Agreed on that point. I should be more clear. To criticize me for trying to emphasize the importance of using the right terms is what I object to. Not so much that he is using the wrong terms for it.
Can we now link in the latest news about possible updates to Xsan being developed (1.1), which apparently needs Tiger Server to run.
This could furthermore provide more evidence that Apple are waiting til Tiger Server is done before releasing Tiger client, plus the posts about how some of the applications around Tiger (direct/build in or not) need to be developed or finished before Tiger is released.
Would make sense for Apple to have every possible avenue covered when releasing Tiger, so they can say "yes this works with Tiger...and this...and this...and wait, theres more, this also works too!! And even better, they're all improved and tonnes better!!" etc!
This could furthermore provide more evidence that Apple are waiting til Tiger Server is done before releasing Tiger client, plus the posts about how some of the applications around Tiger (direct/build in or not) need to be developed or finished before Tiger is released.
Would make sense for Apple to have every possible avenue covered when releasing Tiger, so they can say "yes this works with Tiger...and this...and this...and wait, theres more, this also works too!! And even better, they're all improved and tonnes better!!" etc!
gopher said:
A crankshaft is the only way to start a car
. But of course you meant a handle on the outside of the car? Maybe? The right terms are very important for clarity, which you've illustrated nicely. People who are using a "clean install" are likely coming from Windows or Linux or Solaris or some other operating system (with a handful coming from OS 9). These people want to know if Erase and Install is the way to go, but they don't know what it's called, because they don't care to memorize Apple's installer wording.My point is that telling people there is no "clean install" for OS X is extremely misleading. I, for one, thought someone was arguing it was impossible to start over from scratch the first time I came across one of these discussions a week or two ago. There absolutely is a clean install for OS X--the erase and install option. Anyone who would be asking about a clean install should be able to identify the difference between Apple's options pretty easily, or they wouldn't know to ask in the first place.
Apple just made a huge mistake by calling something in OS9 a "clean install" that didn't conform to the rest of computing standards and therefore we have this problematic situation. If there is confusion for people upgrading from OS 9, it's Apple's fault for not using the right terms, not everyone else in the world for not knowing Apple's blunders. Clean install means something to 98% of the market, and so in all probability the question isn't about an OS9-style "clean install," so it's better to say: "Yes, you can use the Erase and Install option in the OS X Installer to start from scratch." It answers the question, is direct, and avoids silly arguments over Apple's mistake.
gopher said:
Ah, well then you used the wrong term! But I still knew what you meant, even though all standard gas-powered cars still have, use, and start by a crankshaft (in conjunction with a starter motor and flywheel). So someone, like Apple, said the wrong thing, but because the rest of the industry knows what a crankshaft is, we were able to deduce that s/he meant a manual-crank handle and can answer his question--"no, that's a pretty lame and outdated way to start a car and by the way that thing isn't called a crankshaft."
The "no clean install" philosophy would have answered: "yes." Obviously, this doesn't help or answer the real, underlying question.
Regardless, I commend you for being a purist for language. "The right tool for the right job" applies to words, as well. But then again, I am a linguist, at least according to the university
.Thank you. I try to think like a linguist too, even if I don't have that accreditation. Having taken linguistics in 8th grade, and read "Strunk and White's Elements of Style" I very much appreciate all efforts to be clear and succinct with what one actually means.
Think Secret have now reported on the XSan 1.1 updates and the latest builds of Panther and Tiger. They seem to be certain in themselves in the wording that Tiger (client) is finished and immenant, although obviously we still can't take this as proof and fact, no one can until its actually released. But it can fuel more speculation and provide some more backing behind certain peoples thoughts. They say they are unsure whether Tiger Server will ship with or just after Tiger client, so who knows. The Panther update (10.3.9) is also presumably needed to use QT7.
Elfin Geekster said:
Maybe this will be the week, Monday or Tuesday, that we see Tiger and 10.3.9.
Yay.
Wouldn't Apple shock us all, if they announced on Monday or Tuesday, with it in-stores on Friday? We'd all be singing!!!
Apple has not released an update on a Sunday at least since prior Jaguar's release.
10.3.8 2/9/05 Wednesday
10.3.7 12/15/04 Wednesday
10.3.6 11/5/04 Friday
10.3.5 8/9/04 Monday
10.3.4 5/25/04 Tuesday
10.3.3 3/16/04 Tuesday
10.3.2 12/17/03 Wednesday
10.3.1 11/10/03 Monday
10.2.8 10/3/03 Friday
10.2.6 5/6/03 Tuesday
10.2.5 4/10/03 Thursday
10.2.4 2/13/03 Thursday
10.2.3 12/19/02 Thursday
10.2.2 11/11/02 Monday
10.2.1 9/18/02 Wednesday
So if Apple does release the update today, it would break the pattern of always releasing on a U.S. weekday (Monday through Friday).
10.3.8 2/9/05 Wednesday
10.3.7 12/15/04 Wednesday
10.3.6 11/5/04 Friday
10.3.5 8/9/04 Monday
10.3.4 5/25/04 Tuesday
10.3.3 3/16/04 Tuesday
10.3.2 12/17/03 Wednesday
10.3.1 11/10/03 Monday
10.2.8 10/3/03 Friday
10.2.6 5/6/03 Tuesday
10.2.5 4/10/03 Thursday
10.2.4 2/13/03 Thursday
10.2.3 12/19/02 Thursday
10.2.2 11/11/02 Monday
10.2.1 9/18/02 Wednesday
So if Apple does release the update today, it would break the pattern of always releasing on a U.S. weekday (Monday through Friday).
powerbook911 said:Maybe this will be the week, Monday or Tuesday, that we see Tiger and 10.3.9.
I hope so!!
But no doubt false optimism again!!! ah wel!!
COME ON TIGER!!!
CubaTBird said:wwdc people, its so obvious.. i mean they are touting it on their website! with tiger! eesh!
Nothing points to Tiger being 2 months away. Tiger will be out within 3 weeks.
I hope.
powerbook911 said:Nothing points to Tiger being 2 months away. Tiger will be out within 3 weeks.
If Tiger doesn't come out within the next two weeks, then it might as well wait till WWDC. After April 26th, I would be able to enjoy the release party. My wife had made plans for the 15th. If the usual two weeks lead time holds, then I could be in trouble.
