More Powerbook Rumors...

[gopher]

Very interesting link to the Dell site about that notebook, and guess what...you have to choose one of those three internet options...there is no choice when it comes to buying a Dell. You either buy 6 months of internet service with one of 3 major carriers or you can't buy it at all. Very funny.

"Internet/Networking Options
Internet Access Options Learn More
6 Months of MSN Internet Access Included
6 Months of America Online Membership Included
6 Months of Earthlink Internet Access"

So you add yet another $120 to the price.

I think I'll choose my own ISP thank you.
---------
PCs force you to opt-out....Macs allow you to opt-in whatever you choose. Just like spam. We don't want force feeding of ANY kind thank you very much!

 

[fpnc]

Originally posted by yzedf
this is pretty discouraging when you look at what else is on the market now.

P4 2.2 GHz
1GB DDR RAM
Radeon 9000
1600x1200
2 optical drives or 2nd battery/hdd

Granted the sex appeal of the hardware and the OS isn't there, but this is a better machine than the 2 yr old server at my work!

Apple needs to wake up and compete if they really want people to 'switch'

And it weighs probably seven or eight pounds. Yes, the PC notebooks are faster and often cost less, but the Titanium form factor at only five and one half pounds is still pretty competitive when you consider size, weight, and features. It is no longer the best in these categories but it is still pretty good (IMO).

 

[Marzzz]

I have to agree with those who are disappointed with Apple's hardware and the growing gap to the Wintel stuff....make what you want regarding the megaHz myth, but in real world usage that is important to me, specifically audio and softsynths, the Mac is getting absolutely spanked. I was interested in getting a desktop with DDR RAM, only to see that I'll have to wait until the system bus speed is up to it. I was also looking forward to the new PowerBooks (the lack of L3 cache on my current 667 rev B is especially crippling for my usage), but a mild speedbump without the other rumored features (vid, bus speed, 1 gHz, superdrive) means Apple will not see my money for a while yet....

 

[bkassing]

pb price

Anyone who thinks they are getting a "deal" on an 800 has been sucked into the fact that the 800 is overpriced to begin with and the $600 between the 667 and 800 is worth it. Anyone who actually took some time to look at the performance difference between a 667 and 800 would see it is minimal. So if the 800 now comes in at $2300 it would be where it it competitive.

 

[Mr T]

it will be fixed in the next round of upgrades

It seems that I have been waiting way to long for Apple to put out some hardware that was worth buying . To expensive and underpowered are the mantras of the day. I have a lot of Mac friends who are in the same boat. No wonder so few people are upgrading to OS 10. Part of the problem is Apple is refusing to make upgrades like putting the 1.2 G3 in an ibook so people wait until a decent model is released. For all those people saying mghz does not matter, they are not living a G3 world barely squeaking by with limited options for running future software


Is it time to get a cheap Dell and wait a year to see if Apple can get its act together? I am beginning to think so. I also see a lot of Mac heads making excuses for Apple- it is time to quit the 'it will be fixed in the next round of upgrades'.
😀

 

[Kid Red]

Re: Hello? Saving money?

Originally posted by kfury

Everyone here seems to be missing the point (or at least a point): that this means a $600 drop in the price of the current fastest powerbook. Call them 'modest speed bumps,' 'disappointments,' or whatever else you want, but speaking as someone who was ready to buy a powerbook three weeks ago but didn't because I thought a refresh was on the way, this means I can get the powerbook I would have gotten, but for at least $600 less, and if I'm lucky it'll have a bigger hard drive, a faster display, and/or internal bluetooth as icing on the cake.

I'm not disappointed.

Kevin Fox
Me, me, me!: http://fury.com

What he said 🙂

 

[tgrundke]

I am among the band of disgruntled PowerBook users. My 2000 Pismo 400 is now beginning to show its age, but frankly, I believe the Pismos were the last of the 'good value' PowerBooks that Apple released.

While I adore and relish the design and beauty of the TiBook, there is no reason to upgrade at this time for all but the most demanding of users. To pay $2499 for a 667mhz machine is a slap in the face, and $3299 for an 800mhz PowerBook is sheer lunacy.

One can argue all they want that the new PowerBooks offer improved graphics subsystems and busses and screens, etc. However, how many of us have the money to toss around for a new laptop every two years? I for one, cannot. Therefore, I am holding out for a laptop that "has legs" and will carry me for several more years.

 

[Kid Red]

Originally posted by tgrundke
I am among the band of disgruntled PowerBook users. My 2000 Pismo 400 is now beginning to show its age, but frankly, I believe the Pismos were the last of the 'good value' PowerBooks that Apple released.

While I adore and relish the design and beauty of the TiBook, there is no reason to upgrade at this time for all but the most demanding of users. To pay $2499 for a 667mhz machine is a slap in the face, and $3299 for an 800mhz PowerBook is sheer lunacy.

One can argue all they want that the new PowerBooks offer improved graphics subsystems and busses and screens, etc. However, how many of us have the money to toss around for a new laptop every two years? I for one, cannot. Therefore, I am holding out for a laptop that "has legs" and will carry me for several more years.

So your 400 has gotten you 3 years of use but a 800 at twice the speed wont? I understand maybe finacially you can't swing the money, but that doesn't seem to deminish the value of the 800. Come next week, the 800 will only be $2500, that's pretty good value to me and will be my first PB purchase. I had your same position with my G4 450, I was waiting for the G5 because i thought it would carry me for a while. Well, I couldn't wait and got the dual gig. This machine can carry me quite a while as it's pretty damn fast. When the 970 comes out I'll put my dual gig on ebay and upgrade.

You do what you think is best I guess, but I don't agree that $2500 for a 667 is a slap in the face.

 

[john123]

Originally posted by gopher
Very interesting link to the Dell site about that notebook, and guess what...you have to choose one of those three internet options...there is no choice when it comes to buying a Dell. You either buy 6 months of internet service with one of 3 major carriers or you can't buy it at all. Very funny.

"Internet/Networking Options
Internet Access Options Learn More
6 Months of MSN Internet Access Included
6 Months of America Online Membership Included
6 Months of Earthlink Internet Access"

So you add yet another $120 to the price.

I think I'll choose my own ISP thank you.
---------
PCs force you to opt-out....Macs allow you to opt-in whatever you choose. Just like spam. We don't want force feeding of ANY kind thank you very much!

Hahaha! Hey Gopher, hate to break it to you, but you aren't "getting" it. Those things are free. You are not obligated to take any of them. There is no force-feeding, and the price you pay up front for the computer is all you pay. If you WANT those 6 months of internet service, they are FREE (hence the word "included"). There's no addition of $120, or even one penny, to the price.

So thank you for pointing out yet ANOTHER advantage of buying a Dell. With Macs, you must opt-in -- and pay-in -- for your ISP for your first 6 months.

 

[rice_web]

For high-end laptops, I'd go with a Dell laptop most any day of the week. Only in the low-end would I consider an Apple product: the iBook. The iBook is possibly Apple's best priced computer they've ever released, but it now needs an updated graphics card to fully support Quartz Extreme.

 

[Megaquad]

Originally posted by gopher


Apple's high end notebooks base price are only $3200...it is only if you add things like an extra display, Apple's overpriced RAM because of their contract with the RAM supplier, and a 60 GB hard drive that you start adding up to $4500. Don't panic! Unless you are talking Canadian or Australian dollars. Those numbers are higher even though they often work out about the same.

And if you are a student, teacher, government employee, or military person, you get a discount.

In Europe, Powerbook costs 4500$, 17" iMac costs 2800$ etc.

 

[Mirage_]

Originally posted by vollspacken
...aaaargh!!!

NO radeon 9000???
NO faster system bus???
😡

so, what else will justify the price increase that will surely occure???

...equals: NO money from me!!!😡 😡 😡 😡 😡

man, calm down. its some random guy speculating on what he thinks may happen. hehe

 

[octomon]

What the New PowerBooks reeeally need....

The Perfect PowerBook...

Looks, feels, and holds up EXACTLY like my old Pismo 500 , with a SuperDrive [Removeable, of course], 167mhz system bus and a 1 Gig G4 Processor.

My TiBook gives me a cramp, and if the wind blows too hard the damn thing get's a scratch.

Can't wait for a NEW design - how about a NEOPRENE casing??? 😀

 

[Arcady]

Originally posted by yzedf
this is pretty discouraging when you look at what else is on the market now.

P4 2.2 GHz
1GB DDR RAM
Radeon 9000
1600x1200
2 optical drives or 2nd battery/hdd

Granted the sex appeal of the hardware and the OS isn't there, but this is a better machine than the 2 yr old server at my work!

Apple needs to wake up and compete if they really want people to 'switch'

P4 2.2GHz. On AC power. What do you get on battery? And how long does it last? PowerBooks run the same speed all the time, and far longer. Plus they weigh less and look better. Win laptops run half speed on battery and still only go a couple hourse. Good luck watching a single movie on DVD.

A Windows laptop is a like a fat person. Eats a lot and goes slower when you ask it to move, and doesn't get much done.

A PowerBook is thin, light, does everything you ask it to do whether it is at home or on the road, and looks beautiful the whole time.

One day people will understand this concept. Until then, get your PowerBooks while you can.

 

[Mirage_]

Originally posted by john123


Hahaha! Hey Gopher, hate to break it to you, but you aren't "getting" it. Those things are free. You are not obligated to take any of them. There is no force-feeding, and the price you pay up front for the computer is all you pay. If you WANT those 6 months of internet service, they are FREE (hence the word "included"). There's no addition of $120, or even one penny, to the price.

So thank you for pointing out yet ANOTHER advantage of buying a Dell. With Macs, you must opt-in -- and pay-in -- for your ISP for your first 6 months.

Your post is offtopic. While its doubtful that the cost to dell is 120$, it's still in there. Its a marketing ploy/deal between Dell and the ISP's. Dell *says* they are giving away 6 months of ____ ISP's service. Dell gets a discount from ISP. Said ISP gets more subscribers by being associated with Dell. I don't see 6 months of MSN, AOL, or Earthlink as an advantage...lol...I've never used MSN, but AOL and Earthlink suck.

A 933mhz G4 powerbook would be pretty quick, I'd like to see them update the graphics card, but its all really speculation until apple releases info. I won't be in the laptop market for at least another year or two, I've got my Pismo / New Dual 1ghz. Built in bluetooth would be cool, although I haven't seen to many bluetooth gadgets, just pda-phone stuff. I imagine that with Apple pushing it, there will be some nice developments soon 😉 I like the TiBook's casing...SuperDrives would be cool in the PowerBook, but I haven't really used mine to burn DVD's yet. I'd rather have a fast CD-RW in my PowerBook.

 

[gopher]

Originally posted by john123


Hahaha! Hey Gopher, hate to break it to you, but you aren't "getting" it. Those things are free. You are not obligated to take any of them. There is no force-feeding, and the price you pay up front for the computer is all you pay. If you WANT those 6 months of internet service, they are FREE (hence the word "included"). There's no addition of $120, or even one penny, to the price.

So thank you for pointing out yet ANOTHER advantage of buying a Dell. With Macs, you must opt-in -- and pay-in -- for your ISP for your first 6 months.

It is force feeding...because once they sign you on, they have your credit card number, and cancelling accounts are difficult. These so called free internet accounts end up costing more than they are worth. The only reason I use Earthlink now, is because they are the cheapest in high speed internet access in my area. I wouldn't have gone with them for dialup though. It is called bait and switch. And yes I'm aware .Mac did that, but at least Apple didn't ask for my credit card number when I signed up for iTools originally. If that page showed me I could select not to receive any of the trial internet services, then I wouldn't complain about that...and anyway the Dell machines have less battery life, and more often than not heavier to obtain all the features they want to add. The TiBook is an excellent value for all the stuff they put in a 5.2 lbs notebook. 5 hours of battery, gigabit ethernet, digital video second display support for extended desktop, S-Video out, SVGA adapter for VGA displays, combo drive. And whether you like it or not, being able to at the present time do 8 billion floating point calculations a second is faster than any PC notebook on the market. If your Mac notebook is slow, you have done something to slow it down, like run Norton Utilities or add some startup item like SETI@home which really runs best using the SETI dockling and Darwin version of SETI.

 

[TopGear]

In Europe, Powerbook costs 4500$, 17" iMac costs 2800$ etc.

In Eastern Europe, a 12" iBook 700 mhz costs about $2450, including sales tax. Even without taxes, it's still around $1850, vs. $1500 in the US.

Apple will never increase their market share over here at these prices. Never.

 

[gopher]

Originally posted by TopGear


In Eastern Europe, a 12" iBook 700 mhz costs about $2450, including sales tax. Even without taxes, it's still around $1850, vs. $1500 in the US.

Apple will never increase their market share over here at these prices. Never.

The problem is taxes on foreign goods...write your governments to reduce taxes on Macs.

 

[tgrundke]

Originally posted by Kid Red


So your 400 has gotten you 3 years of use but a 800 at twice the speed wont? I understand maybe finacially you can't swing the money, but that doesn't seem to deminish the value of the 800. Come next week, the 800 will only be $2500, that's pretty good value to me and will be my first PB purchase. I had your same position with my G4 450, I was waiting for the G5 because i thought it would carry me for a while. Well, I couldn't wait and got the dual gig. This machine can carry me quite a while as it's pretty damn fast. When the 970 comes out I'll put my dual gig on ebay and upgrade.

You do what you think is best I guess, but I don't agree that $2500 for a 667 is a slap in the face.

Kid:

You are correct about your above assumption, but the problem is that I cannot justify spending $3299 to double the performance coming from a 400mhz machine. As I said, for those who need every ounce of power available, both options may be a good move. But for the majority of us, the prices being asked by Apple are simply ridiculous for the performance being rendered.

And yes, this is a bit 'whiny' of me, but I don't get too thrilled at the idea of shelling out another $2499 for an 800mhz machine. Come to think of it, that looks to be the big problem I think a lot of people have-it may be just perception, but many people look at the performance ratings ('megahertz myth' aside) and think, "good god-they want me to pay $xxxx for xxx mhz? screw that!"

And I will also go on the European pricing bandwagon here: it is simply RIDICULOUS. Granted, most of the error is due to the VAT tax, but Apple's pricing scheme is taking its toll. Last quarter, only 35% (?) of sales came from overseas. I remember less than 10 years ago when the sales mix was often 51% overseas to 48% domestic...sigh.

 

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by arn


I love how people always come up with super-broad generalizations about Apple...

This is not true, and there is no reason for this to be true. There is no magic formula to Apple's upgrades.

You want an example? The last PowerMac upgrades, perhaps?

arn

I would never argue with a god . . .

But in the limited context of powerbooks it is true more often than not.

May lightning strike someone else!

Rocketman

 

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by Arcady


A PowerBook is thin, light, does everything you ask it to do whether it is at home or on the road, and looks beautiful the whole time.

I have yet to meet a single powerbook user (owner or not) that did not have positive things to say about the experience of actually using it. And more often than not, noted they could do MORE than they expected and experienced NO issues of speed related to processor numbers.

I have yet to meet a single wintel user who is generally satisfied with the user experience or, does not have war stories of trying to do things Apple users take for granted.

This message may never successfully be communicated to the masses by Apple (they have failed so far), but for those tiny 3% of users who break down and pay 15% more for a powerbook than the top of the like Dell laptop, they will simply be happier and more productive.

Let's keep our little secret, eh?

Rocketman

 

[wdlove]

Was glad to hear that Steve put off the introduction of new iBook & PowerBook till Nov. 6th. Coverage would have suffered!

 

[flanders]

I gotta chime in here...as a long time apple (and specifically tibook user--I've had the 500, 667 and 800) I've got to say that I've just decided that the cost is WAY to high for what you're getting. I've just sold my last tibook and just received my new thinkpad 1.8Ghz A31 for less than $2300. And it's quite a bit faster than even my Dual 1Ghz desktop.

Now I really love Apple, and as a professional software developer (carbon, webobjects and cocoa) I certainly enjoy the hardware design and OS. They're fabulous. But--in my world paying customers use Sun/Intel servers and PCs for the desktops. They go with what works and won't break the bank.

To agree with a previous poster, I do think it's time to give apple some space and see what they can do within the next year. OSX is great, but I don't see them focusing on any enterprise sales, or decreasing cost to entry for budding developers or casual users(yes $3500 for an 800Mhz machine is far too much even for seasoned apple users with good paying jobs.)

If you ask me, this is _exactly_ the situation NeXT had before they went software only. Machines were far too expensive, and all they had to offer was superior software with no incentives for anyone. We all know how this story went, and I for one was burned then and don't want to get burned this time.

So, Apple, if you're listening...my 5 steps to market domination:

1. Drop the prices
2. Increase the speeds
3. Create incentives to move machines to corporate server rooms and desktops...Hint: Software alone won't do this.
4. Stop focusing on new home movie and mp3 gadgets and get us some software we can use to make $money$ with. Consultants recommend what they can use (Another hint: you already own WEBOBJECTS which IS GOOD ENTERPRISE SOFTWARE AND IS BEING USED BY SOME VERY LARGE ORGANIZATIONS, how about some marketing, support and decent pricing for large orders and licenses?)
5. STOP THE RUMOR PROBLEM, start giving us a road map so we (and our customers) can see where they're going!!!!!

Okay, I'm out of breath now so I'll stop ranting. I still have my DP1000, but how long is anyone's guess.

 

[kfury]

Originally posted by flanders
I gotta chime in here...as a long time apple (and specifically tibook user--I've had the 500, 667 and 800) I've got to say that I've just decided that the cost is WAY to high for what you're getting. I've just sold my last tibook and just received my new thinkpad 1.8Ghz A31 for less than $2300.

You've gone through three TiBooks to stay on the bleeding edge, and you've 'just decided' that the cost is way too high? You'd find that you'd save an incredible amount of money if you bought every other PB rev, instead of plunking down $2-3K every year. How much are you losing each time you sell one of your Tibooks?

It's a shame that the people you work with use Wintex boxes. I work in a mixed environment where there's no usability penalty for Mac owners. I consider myself lucky in that regard.

Kevin Fox
Me, me, me: http://fury.com

 

[kfury]

Originally posted by flanders
OSX is great, but I don't see them focusing on any enterprise sales, or decreasing cost to entry for budding developers or casual users(yes $3500 for an 800Mhz machine is far too much even for seasoned apple users with good paying jobs.)

(resisting a comment about casual developers picking up one of your many used TiBooks on the cheap)

It's a pretty crappy example to pick the most expensive machine Apple sells and label it as the entry cost for a casual developer. You can get a new mac for under a thousand dollars, and come next week you'll be able to get a new iBook (700Mhz, even) for under a grand, even less for students, teachers, and developers.

As for reaching out to the enterprise, Apple tripled their server sales in the last quarter. In the face of Xserve, how can you say Apple is not focusing on the enterprise? Moving OS X is all about the enterprise, expanding the OS's capability to handle enterprise-level tasks and coordination, and leverage off existing enterprise-level Unix tools.

I can't decide whether you're intentionally shoveling FUD or if you simply don't know any better...

Kevin Fox
Me, me, me! http://fury.com