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Holy cow, we need some clarity and brevity here.

1. Think Secret blew the Panther release.
2. Think Secret blew the iPod mini release.
3. Think Secret has been blowing a lot of stuff lately.

While I do not think we'll see dual-cores (and yes, it dissapoints me as an Apple fan), if you think the company is headed for oblivion, you need to sell your machine and go get a Dell because you're thinking with Windows-user mentality. Get the foil hat option while you are at it.

I'd like to see the PowerMacs up there a bit, and this is dissapointing if it is true.

I do remember back in 1999 when the rumor mills said the new G4 PM would not be avilable untill early 2000. Jobs unveiled it in late summer.

Don't give up hope yet.

I think this is more a case of Apple fans egos being bruised by AMD and Intel's latest processor releases with Apple not having anything to counter them.
 
Object-X said:
I respectfully disagree. Microsoft is dying. A tremendous paradigm shift is about to take place in the computer world and Apple, IBM, Sony, Sun, and others are pushing it. This shift is going to happen so fast you won't even beleive it. Microsoft can't keep up. They are still doing things the way they did 20 years ago and that model is about to collapse.
<SNIP>

I would like to think this shift will happen as well, but the problem is that Microsoft has a very tight grip on a lot of the business world PC market and that is not about to let up. What I can see happening is home PCs being replaced with more generalized media centers. A TV with a full HD resolution (1920x1200 or whatever it is, I'm not sure that's the exact number) paired with a DVD/blu-ray playing computer that was relatively small, had a huge hard drive, and a very fast internet connection allowing TV show downloads on demand (movies if the connection was 10 or 100 times DSL i guess), could get huge market penetration. Something like this paired with a decent web browser and a wireless keyboard and mouse could even replace many home user's PCs. The device would of course have to be cheapish and have a dead simple UI. (Think: Start menu is way too complicated)

Now, this "SuperMediaCenter", or SMC, is a great idea and I'm sure many people would love the idea, so what's the problem? Connection speeds, hard drive sizes, and the fact that full HD is not quite there yet.

1. To download a 10 gig movie, at even 0.3 megabytes per second would take 30,000 seconds, or about 8 hours. (Yeah It's a gross approximation) This is actually twice the speed many people have and it's not always going to be top speed, so the range for normal cable/DSL users would be probably something like 6-24 hours, depending on local conditions. This is unacceptably slow, as they can go rent a movie in a half hour. If speeds were ramped up to say, 3 megabytes per second, and the download time was roughly an hour, then the movie could basically be watched on the fly as it came in (even with a few minutes of lag time to cache ahead a bit). Now we're talking. This could be nothing short of total video on demand, and with a limitless library people would probably be a damn lot happier about handing over a pile of cash every month because they could watch anything ever made that still exists on a DVD somewhere. Still, these speeds are 20 times faster than most people have now and so the tech is a ways away.

2. A nice starting point for a good SMC would be about 1TB. At that point one could probably store a good few television shows and movies and not have to worry too much about running out of space every day. Yes it does limit you to about 50-100 movies depending on length and quality but if the company you have the service with has a record of all the movies you "own" then you can download them at a whim. (Although you would have to wait a while) This may be a problem for bandwidth costs for providers however and so a subscription model is far more likely to work with this kind of service, a la cable. With that then maybe 400 gigs would be an adequate starting point, but the lower you go the quicker the average user is going to get annoyed at the fact that he/she can only store a few HD movies at a time.

3. People may replace their computers with a TV that has 1200 lines of vertical resolution but are very unlikely to do so with one that has 480 lines. There just isn't enough room to read a web page at that size. Yes HDTVs are out there but it's still going to take a couple of years before the full resolution ones are in tons of houses.


Now, changing how things are done in the business world is probably even more difficult than this. Bureaucrats, managers, and other people who like to play it safe will chose Windows and Office every time because that's what everyone uses and there is minimal risk involved. Most of my comments on this would be from the point of view of someone who learned TeX before he ever saw Word and so he's just never really understood the draw to a WYSIWYG word processor, so I'll refrain from them. The business world will change slowly, but having a standard that everyone uses is very important to them and since it happens to be Windows/Office right now it will take a long time to change. I'm not even sure it'll change for the better though. I could come up with far better programs than exist in Office but the problem is they would be better for ME, not for the average Joe blow who has never written a line of code in his life, or even seen a command line. These programs actually basically already exists in various forms and while they could probably use a bit of work in the UI department, it's not a big deal. Anyway, I don't personally see a way out of the Windows/Office combo.

As far as the gaming world goes there are two tracks of thought. One is the console based approach where everyone has the same hardware which is updated every few years, and the other is where there is much more variation in hardware and things are updated once or twice a year. I personally like the console approach much better because it makes things better for everyone, but for the PC based approach, Microsoft again wins hands down. This could change much faster than the business world would change, but it is strictly hardware and software dependent. If there were titles for a technically superior system made by another company, gamers would buy them. It's pretty much that simple. This however, is unlikely to change any time soon.

Final note: I think this is the longest, most useless, and off topic post I've ever made to a forum. I guess I was inspired by the other posts above.
 
iGary said:
Holy cow, we need some clarity and brevity here.

1. Think Secret blew the Panther release.
2. Think Secret blew the iPod mini release.
3. Think Secret has been blowing a lot of stuff lately.

While I do not think we'll see dual-cores (and yes, it dissapoints me as an Apple fan), if you think the company is headed for oblivion, you need to sell your machine and go get a Dell because you're thinking with Windows-user mentality. Get the foil hat option while you are at it.

I'd like to see the PowerMacs up there a bit, and this is dissapointing if it is true.

I do remember back in 1999 when the rumor mills said the new G4 PM would not be avilable untill early 2000. Jobs unveiled it in late summer.

Don't give up hope yet.

I think this is more a case of Apple fans egos being bruised by AMD and Intel's latest processor releases with Apple not having anything to counter them.

My point was it's not the end of the world people. I had my tin foil hat on when stevie boy talked about 3GHz by next summer. I was laughing for months! People forget that the OS is what makes Apple attractive.
If the faithful survived years with G4's they'll survive this drought.
TS has been on a roll.
 
Times are a changin.

~loserman~ said:
Maybe in the "Bizzaro Word"

It is very very hard to take a monopoly down. Especially when the government has decided to leave them alone. Until an alternative operating system can compete against them in the X86 world they will continue to dominate. Of course it isn't just the OS, it's the Apps and developers too.
Say what you want but anyone who develops software for a living will tell you Microsoft has built the easiest to use and most powerful development suite ever. Visual studio is a dream to use. It's debuggers are awesome.
Apple's Xcode Tools are a joke in comparison.

That may be true in a traditional sense, but this is technology and the rules are much different. Technology changes very very fast; and once dominate players are quickly marginalized and overtaken. Think Novell. I expect basically the same thing is going to happen to Microsoft. They are too comfortable in their "monopoly" position and they are not innovating. Steve Jobs and Apple are about to change the rules and Microsoft is going to be a day late and a few billion short. They will have to break up and refocus. Computers and their OSs are going to still be around, but it's not where the money is going to be, it's going to be internet services. Microsoft knows this, but I'm not impressed with their offerings in this regard, are you? Why do you think iPods and iTunes are kicking their ass? It's the integration and package as a whole and Apple does it right, Microsoft has never done it right; they only copy others and not all that well either. Apple innovated and now the lumbering juggarnaut that is Microsoft can't keep up. Good riddance. Their proprietary nature sucks and their stupid browser makes my life as a web developer a living hell. Does Microsoft care? No. They suck and everyone knows it. I wish they would die sooner or support open standards and compete like everyone else. Oh, competition....that's a dirty word to them and they're about to pay the price. Couldn't happen to a better company.
 
Object-X said:
That may be true in a traditional sense, but this is technology and the rules are much different. Technology changes very very fast; and once dominate players are quickly marginalized and overtaken. Think Novell. I expect basically the same thing is going to happen to Microsoft. They are too comfortable in their "monopoly" position and they are not innovating. Steve Jobs and Apple are about to change the rules and Microsoft is going to be a day late and a few billion short. They will have to break up and refocus. Computers and their OSs are going to still be around, but it's not where the money is going to be, it's going to be internet services. Microsoft knows this, but I'm not impressed with their offerings in this regard, are you? Why do you think iPods and iTunes are kicking their ass? It's the integration and package as a whole and Apple does it right, Microsoft has never done it right; they only copy others and not all that well either. Apple innovated and now the lumbering juggarnaut that is Microsoft can't keep up. Good riddance. Their proprietary nature sucks and their stupid browser makes my life as a web developer a living hell. Does Microsoft care? No. They suck and everyone knows it. I wish they would die sooner or support open standards and compete like everyone else. Oh, competition....that's a dirty word to them and they're about to pay the price. Couldn't happen to a better company.
Agreed - that doesn't stop MS from trying to buy their way out of the situation they're about to get themselves in, though.

This is off-topic anyway. Object-X, why don't you start a new thread to continue this, admittedly, very interesting discussion elsewhere?

IBM is determined if nothing else. They've hit similar roadblocks before, and they've managed to find a way through. I'm confident that IBM will get past this obstacle, too (getting dual-core/other enhancements into the PowerPC line).
 
Here Here!

Object-X said:
Let me elaborate. Quicktime is going to be the basis of video content on computers, TVs, cell phones, ect. I know it' only been a "player" but it's about to become the Video application of choice that will change everything.
I dig your thought process :D I use Quicktime every day to create 360° virtual tours for real estate (sig). It's definitely changing my bank account ;)

Besides shooting real estate, I enjoy capturing vacations and sporting events with my camcorder. Isn't it wild how computer technology has evolved to include television / home entertainment? Hi-Def camcorders will soon have us craving TB's of storage with as much under the hood as Apple can give us. Anyone who's worked with video knows, and there are more joining that group every day. The power users are no longer gamers - they are video editors. Let's hope the rumors of new power desktops are true. OS X is too good to get left behind because Apple can't keep the hardware competitive :(
 
ah Microsoft...

Object-X said:
It's the integration and package as a whole and Apple does it right, Microsoft has never done it right; they only copy others and not all that well either.
Well Microsoft still must be doing something right, last I checked they still were killing us in the stats. Sadly I cannot see Tiger by itself starting a huge power switch from Microsoft to Apple. I can however see Apple steadily increasing and eventually overtake Microsoft if they get their hardware act together :rolleyes:
 
duffman9000 said:
My point was it's not the end of the world people. I had my tin foil hat on when stevie boy talked about 3GHz by next summer. I was laughing for months! People forget that the OS is what makes Apple attractive.
If the faithful survived years with G4's they'll survive this drought.
TS has been on a roll.

I agree...and I know tons of people who have dual 2.0's and NEVER use half of the power those machines give.

The fact is most people whining and complaining here:

1. Are not even in the market.
2. Have no use for the dual core technology anyway.

Maybe I'm jaded. As everyone knows I'm only looking for a sub-2000 dual 2.0.

We'll just have to wait.
 
Originally Posted by Val-kyrie

Or should Apple drop Jobs????

Oh give me a break. IBM's processor problems are somehow Steve's fault?

Apple would be DEAD had they not bought NeXT and brought Steve back. Period.

*giant rolling eye*
 
99% of you complainers about a 3GHz G5 will likely not even buy it if and when it is introduced. :rolleyes:
 
iGary said:
I agree...and I know tons of people who have dual 2.0's and NEVER use half of the power those machines give.

The fact is most people whining and complaining here:

1. Are not even in the market.
2. Have no use for the dual core technology anyway.

Maybe I'm jaded. As everyone knows I'm only looking for a sub-2000 dual 2.0.

We'll just have to wait.

I'm waiting for new hardware too. The power of a powerbook with the toughness of an ibook. Aint never going to happen unless i spray paint myself.
 
Lacero said:
99% of you complainers about a 3GHz G5 will likely not even buy it if and when it is introduced. :rolleyes:
I'm not complaining, and my next Mac will be a PowerMac (that is, I'd be in the market for one of these if it was time for me to replace the Mac I've got). If nothing else, the news of a possible PowerMac update, minor though it may be, is a sign that Apple hasn't completely stagnated.
 
I think the next update wouldn't feature PCI Express-because Final Cut Studio requires a AGP graphics card (which is software that you may run on a G5). Dual-layer capable SuperDrives would be welcome as is price cuts.
 
Well, not sure if any of you have checked this out, but this link was posted from the AppleInside Forum.

Special Apple Event at NAB APR 20

Check it, it looks like there is a special Tiger/Hardware session from Apple on April 20.

Guess we'll have to wait and see what comes, eh?
 
Does anyone ever wonder???

I was talking to my friend today and he said something like this:

With these recent lawsuits between Apple and Think Secret do you think that just maybe that Apple lied to Think Secret?

I mean I really think that might be possible!

There's Hope!

-W

PS- Sorry if this has already been posted... I haven't read all the posts (yet :) )
 
Game over man!

ncoffey said:
Now, changing how things are done in the business world is probably even more difficult than this. Bureaucrats, managers, and other people who like to play it safe will chose Windows and Office every time because that's what everyone uses and there is minimal risk involved. Most of my comments on this would be from the point of view of someone who learned TeX before he ever saw Word and so he's just never really understood the draw to a WYSIWYG word processor, so I'll refrain from them. The business world will change slowly, but having a standard that everyone uses is very important to them and since it happens to be Windows/Office right now it will take a long time to change. I'm not even sure it'll change for the better though. I could come up with far better programs than exist in Office but the problem is they would be better for ME, not for the average Joe blow who has never written a line of code in his life, or even seen a command line. These programs actually basically already exists in various forms and while they could probably use a bit of work in the UI department, it's not a big deal. Anyway, I don't personally see a way out of the Windows/Office combo.

As far as the gaming world goes there are two tracks of thought. One is the console based approach where everyone has the same hardware which is updated every few years, and the other is where there is much more variation in hardware and things are updated once or twice a year. I personally like the console approach much better because it makes things better for everyone, but for the PC based approach, Microsoft again wins hands down. This could change much faster than the business world would change, but it is strictly hardware and software dependent. If there were titles for a technically superior system made by another company, gamers would buy them. It's pretty much that simple. This however, is unlikely to change any time soon.

Final note: I think this is the longest, most useless, and off topic post I've ever made to a forum. I guess I was inspired by the other posts above.

Wow, and I thought my posts were long. ;)

True the buisness world changes slowely, but Office is not the real issue with business. If it were only Word, Excel, and Outlook there are other alternatives. Most companies run proprietary software that was written years ago and would cost a small fortune to update. This inertia will keep Windows around for years to come, but their market/mindshare is about to nose dive. They company I work for would drop Windows if were not for an old COBOL application that runs on an old compiler and would prove diffecult to port. They have already inquired about what it would take and cost to switch to Linux or even OS X. They clearly want too, wether they have the nerve or money to do it is the issue. But Office has no where to go and OpenOffice/StarOffice is getting better all the time. Linux also is improving rapidly; Novell thinks so. IBM is all about middleware and software as a service could make Windows irrelevant. Why do think Microsoft has been pushing thier proprietary standards so aggresively? They know this will make Windows irrrelevant and if they aren't controlling the standards they are history. Guess what? They are history.

As far as gaming is concerned, the Xbox is great, but it's not perfect. So the next gen Xbox will be amazing right? Sure, but so will the Playstation. Sony is right their to compete with them and they need an edge with integrating into the digital home. Enter Apple. Xbox will be great for games, but using it for digital content management will suck and we all know it. Again, people will see how superior the PS is running Apple software and the game is over. Heh, i made a funny. :)

Ok, back to the topic. So, the next workstations from Apple will have an integrated Cell chip so they can be used to write software for said Playstation and other such Cell based devices. If a minor update happens next week it's only to buy time for the next generation Powermacs based on this Cell chip and with multi-cores to come out; which I think they will be announced at the Developers conference.

Ok, I feel better now.
 
Yep. I'm with you. Stop complaining people. Ask my friends and family. I have been waiting for Apple to update PERIOD. No way I was buying a year old powermac for full price.

Any news is good news. Seeing as how I just started doing reall heavy work with DVD SP, I am glad to see dual layer burners in there.

2.3. 2.5. I don't care. Middle powermac. Mine. As soon as they announce I am ordering.
 
Since mostly everyone is so upset about a RUMOR from TS, I thought I'd point attention to a more positive rumor:

Key point: "We think the next PowerMacs will also support DDR2-533 memory in addition to PCI Express x16 graphics (Probably ATi Radeon X850 in the high end, and a low-cost nVIDIA PCI-E card in the other models)."

They also think dual-cores are coming soon.


http://www.macosrumors.com/20050417.php

Yes, I know about this source, but I'd rather get excited about an optimistic rumor rather than TS's depressing rumor.
 
Object-X said:
So the next gen Xbox will be amazing right? Sure, but so will the Playstation. Sony is right their to compete with them and they need an edge with integrating into the digital home. Enter Apple. Xbox will be great for games, but using it for digital content management will suck and we all know it. Again, people will see how superior the PS is running Apple software and the game is over. Heh, i made a funny. :)

If you have followed the gaming industry as much as I have, I think in the video game world Microsoft is behaving like Apple. They did all the things right that Sony did wrong past generation (excluding Japan, of course).

THe Xbox blew the PS2 out of the water- software, hardware, online infrstructure, you name it.

In my opinion, Microsoft IS Apple in the video game world, and Sony is the Microsoft. Did that make sense?

And Nintendo? Well, next gen they will be Linux. :p
 
wrldwzrd89 said:
Agreed - that doesn't stop MS from trying to buy their way out of the situation they're about to get themselves in, though.

This is off-topic anyway. Object-X, why don't you start a new thread to continue this, admittedly, very interesting discussion elsewhere?

IBM is determined if nothing else. They've hit similar roadblocks before, and they've managed to find a way through. I'm confident that IBM will get past this obstacle, too (getting dual-core/other enhancements into the PowerPC line).

Sorry about the topic. This all started with my claim that the next Powermac workstation would integrate the Cell chip, and then everyone started demanding I support my facts all.
:eek:
 
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