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Bubbasteve said:Correct me if I'm wrong (and believe me, I know at least one of you out there will debate this) but didn't Apple cut their ties with Mr. Steve Jobs once before which eventually lead Apple close to filing for bankruptcy...then they brought him back which basically saved Apple...I mean I'm just spitballin here but I think that's the last thing Apple should do (to "drop Jobs")
The 2 best things that ever happened to Apple:
1) When SJ left Apple
2) When SJ returned to Apple
odd, but both needed to happen!
I think that everyone here is being overly pessimistic about the situation.
Honestly "Apple will be dead" and similar! Get a grip.
Yes, it isn't a great update, and it has been a while since the previous one too. What we don't know yet is if the price of the hardware will fall because the update isn't great. If it doesn't, I'll be a bit more disappointed, but not as distraught as some here.
Fact is, even Intel and AMD haven't been increasing speeds very well in the past year or so. The situation is simply that IBM are in the same situation with the 970FX processor, and the follow up chips (970GX, 970MP) aren't in mass production yet. Which is what I've previously guessed in other posts here.
At the end of this month we will probably have:
Apple: $3000 Max, Two 2.7GHz Processors in a system, 1.35GHz FSB per processor
Dell: $3000, Two 3.2GHz SMT enabled cores in a system, shared 1066MHz FSB
AMD: $?, Dual-core 2.2GHz Opteron, dual dual-core 2.2GHz Opteron, quad dual-core 2.2GHz Opteron, OR single-processor-only single-core 2.6GHz A64FX (moving to 2.8GHz soonish) OR (soon) dual-core 2.4GHz A64.
The Dell price is one I saw earlier today, due to ship mid-May. I.e., today's Intel dual-core processor launch was a paper-launch to pre-empt AMD's.
Now a 3.2GHz P4 is about as powerful as a 2.0GHz Athlon 64 in many tasks, with FP SIMD being a place where it beats the Athlon 64. The G5 is roughly as powerful per clock in general as AMD's chips, except that Altivec gives it an FP SIMD advantage.
A dual 2.7GHz system is still pretty damned good. Especially if Tiger is also worth a speed grade or two over Panther!
The graphics are still naff though, even if it has moved up to a Radeon 9600, or 'Radeon 9650' in the 2.7. Still, if it takes graphics load off the CPU then performance in CPU tasks can only improve further.
Honestly "Apple will be dead" and similar! Get a grip.
Yes, it isn't a great update, and it has been a while since the previous one too. What we don't know yet is if the price of the hardware will fall because the update isn't great. If it doesn't, I'll be a bit more disappointed, but not as distraught as some here.
Fact is, even Intel and AMD haven't been increasing speeds very well in the past year or so. The situation is simply that IBM are in the same situation with the 970FX processor, and the follow up chips (970GX, 970MP) aren't in mass production yet. Which is what I've previously guessed in other posts here.
At the end of this month we will probably have:
Apple: $3000 Max, Two 2.7GHz Processors in a system, 1.35GHz FSB per processor
Dell: $3000, Two 3.2GHz SMT enabled cores in a system, shared 1066MHz FSB
AMD: $?, Dual-core 2.2GHz Opteron, dual dual-core 2.2GHz Opteron, quad dual-core 2.2GHz Opteron, OR single-processor-only single-core 2.6GHz A64FX (moving to 2.8GHz soonish) OR (soon) dual-core 2.4GHz A64.
The Dell price is one I saw earlier today, due to ship mid-May. I.e., today's Intel dual-core processor launch was a paper-launch to pre-empt AMD's.
Now a 3.2GHz P4 is about as powerful as a 2.0GHz Athlon 64 in many tasks, with FP SIMD being a place where it beats the Athlon 64. The G5 is roughly as powerful per clock in general as AMD's chips, except that Altivec gives it an FP SIMD advantage.
A dual 2.7GHz system is still pretty damned good. Especially if Tiger is also worth a speed grade or two over Panther!
The graphics are still naff though, even if it has moved up to a Radeon 9600, or 'Radeon 9650' in the 2.7. Still, if it takes graphics load off the CPU then performance in CPU tasks can only improve further.
It's amazing how many people are whining because what TS is predicting.
They just got a wrong prediction of Powermacs at NAB. How come now they come up with some new prediction and people are just going crazy about it? Doesn't make any sense. I know TS record is not bad but come on, it's just a rumor.
TS sources are probably under the gun by Apple lawsuits. Anybody who wants to keep their jobs at Apple and want to avoid any lawsuits are not saying anything to TS.
If we don't see any upgrade before WWDC is a good thing, I doubt Steve Jobs is going to deliver his keynote for a pathetic 200mhz update on the Powermac front.
His ego is too big to get booed at his keynote. If indeed Powermacs will be upgrade at WWDC is going to be a major one.
They just got a wrong prediction of Powermacs at NAB. How come now they come up with some new prediction and people are just going crazy about it? Doesn't make any sense. I know TS record is not bad but come on, it's just a rumor.
TS sources are probably under the gun by Apple lawsuits. Anybody who wants to keep their jobs at Apple and want to avoid any lawsuits are not saying anything to TS.
If we don't see any upgrade before WWDC is a good thing, I doubt Steve Jobs is going to deliver his keynote for a pathetic 200mhz update on the Powermac front.
His ego is too big to get booed at his keynote. If indeed Powermacs will be upgrade at WWDC is going to be a major one.
RowdyBacon said:As one of the posters points out, Lightwave is a cross-platform application, and this could merely be in anticipation of Intel's and AMD's soon-to-be dual-core processors. But I've got a feeling these guys know something the rest of us don't.
Assuming LightWave already supports dual CPUs on Mac... I wouldn't be at ALL surprised if the Mac platform required no re-writing at ALL to support two cores in one chip. Supporting AMD and Intel dual-core chips may require some effort that's just not needed on the Mac side. Anyone know? Would the code for OS X and X apps even CARE whether the two CPUs were on one chip or not? (I realize the resulting speed could be better on a single chip.)
dosers said:.
Listen, I love Apple like the next guy, but Microsoft ain't dead! Apart from them being able to buy Apple tomorrow before Steve has breakfast if they REALLY wanted to, Microsoft is IBM now - they are big, they are everywhere and they are here to stay. Let's face it, Apple has less than 4% marketshare. We NEED Microsoft. I want Apple to succeed very much, and I think they are, but we're moving a bit fast here, no ?!
or just go numeric...
Apple did record quarter sales... 3.85 billion...
Microsoft in its quarter reported 28.5 billion...
Did you read the whole thread before posting?jauh said:
It was mentioned earlier that the release in six weeks time would be a "new form-factor release" rather than a full product update - similar to what happened when the PowerBook 12 and 17 inch models were released.
Another point for those that think Microsoft is dying and Apple is going to beat them.
Microsoft's Earnings are 10.6 Billion
Apple's Earnings are 730 Million
Quite a difference
Microsoft's Earnings are 10.6 Billion
Apple's Earnings are 730 Million
Quite a difference
Object-X said:
I've read a bit about the CELL chip & think it can be used for (will revolutionize) a lot of things.
I have heard that it can be a GPU and do an outstanding job of h264 encoding/decoding.
I have heard that you can treat it as a self-contained object and distribute workload among multiple CELL chips on the same or different computers-- need to do more work, add more CELLS.
So here is my question: Could Apple realize a significant increase in GPU power by including CELL chips on plugin cards (as opposed to slots on the motherboard). Assume the programming exists to take advantage of this.
If this is true... this changes everything!
Funny how AMD wouldn't be where it is right now if it weren't for its technology exchange and partnership w/ IBM... so really, IBM is needed here in some form. And IBM wouldn't have had the technology like SOI that it helped AMD w/ unless they were developing the PPC970.joeboy_45101 said:
-Kevin
wrldwzrd89 said:
Indeed. Leaving the Powermacs alone and introducing a new workstation above the powermacs in performance and price, essentially creating a new line as opposed to updating an existing one.
Multi-core is not the same thing as multi-CPU. Intel/AMD are just releasing these parts. Apple has never had one before. If you're talking about dual processors, there have been dual, quad, x16, etc configurations around since the day of 486/Pentium Pro.kainjow said:
-Kevin
Wow. How surprising (sarcasm intended).
Anyway, at least I won't have to think hard about getting last model's dual 2.5 for 1999 once the new ones come out.
This is pretty despicable. Not to mention, NO AIRPORT OR BLUETOOTH INCLUDED IN A 3000 DOLLAR MACHINE!!!!!!!!
If only I wasn't locked into using Digital Performer as well as pro tools...I'd build an AMD machine in a heartbeat and use my powerbook for regular computing. "Power"-book, is a term I use lightly. Tiger better smoke...that's all I can say.
Anyway, at least I won't have to think hard about getting last model's dual 2.5 for 1999 once the new ones come out.
This is pretty despicable. Not to mention, NO AIRPORT OR BLUETOOTH INCLUDED IN A 3000 DOLLAR MACHINE!!!!!!!!
If only I wasn't locked into using Digital Performer as well as pro tools...I'd build an AMD machine in a heartbeat and use my powerbook for regular computing. "Power"-book, is a term I use lightly. Tiger better smoke...that's all I can say.
Hardware-wise, dual-core and dual-CPU aren't at all similar. Performance-wise, at least in theory, there should be very little difference between a pair of model X processors running at Y speed and one dual-core X processor with cores running at Y speed. I believe this is the reason for the confusion.spaceballl said:
dosers said:
The Xbox360 core is supposed to be a close relative of the Cell's PPE. It really doesn't have a lot to due with Dual Core G5s.
Drama...
I think everyone here is being a drama queen...
I am sorry but its true.
First of all like someone here just wrote. Steve Jobs has a big ego. Do you think he is going to base or present some lame upgrade, another (We know 200 features) tiger speech... or tell us how cute keynote is?
I believe that maybe the information TS is giving away has a bit of both things, misinformation and truth... after all what is the purpose of the show if no expectation is given?
Apple is going to roll new equipment out... we have been given hints.. of things to come.. maybe not a lot of them but something new will show up...
And if they dont.. then pucker up, enjoy tiger and dont whine.. eventually something good will happen...
Kil
I think everyone here is being a drama queen...
I am sorry but its true.
First of all like someone here just wrote. Steve Jobs has a big ego. Do you think he is going to base or present some lame upgrade, another (We know 200 features) tiger speech... or tell us how cute keynote is?
I believe that maybe the information TS is giving away has a bit of both things, misinformation and truth... after all what is the purpose of the show if no expectation is given?
Apple is going to roll new equipment out... we have been given hints.. of things to come.. maybe not a lot of them but something new will show up...
And if they dont.. then pucker up, enjoy tiger and dont whine.. eventually something good will happen...
Kil
Val-kyrie said:
That's the 65 million dollar question. Steve Jobs is a visionary, but he's also one that you hope his eccentricities help you more than they hurt you.
The Future
Ok, I don't understand stocks and all that so here is some sane commentary on Apple valuation. These guys haven't always been favorable to Apple's stock situation but what they say sounds fairly straight forward to me.
"Yet that's what happens when you price perfection into a stock. While the company is clearly on track to obliterate Wall Street's expectations for Apple to earn about $1.11 a share this year -- which means the stock is trading for less, perhaps significantly less, than its year-ahead P/E multiple of 34 -- longs shouldn't fret a little pessimism creeping back into the stock. Relish it. That's usually the best way to assure that the next time the company delivers better-than-expected news that the market will behave appropriately." --
Motley Fool
The issue here is "better-than-expected news" which I believe will be forthcoming this year with new product announcements and strategic alliances. The next big thing is video and the cell chip.
Now, as to where this is all headed I would direct you to a facinating analysis of the coming Apple revolution and the demise of Microsoft. Take time to read all Neo's articles listed at the bottom of the page. And after you get through with all his detailed analysis, ask yourelf the question: does Steve Jobs have the vision and intuition to pull it off?
The Future is Apple
calyxman said:Ok, so you've pounded your point into our heads so many times. Could you please cite some examples of how Microsoft's is going to be driven it into oblivion? Are they just sitting on their hands? Does their strategy suck?
Microsoft does sit on $30 billion (or was it more?) in cash reserves. Will that disappear along with Microsft?
And if Microsoft does disappear, who will be the major OS player in the business segment? Banks, insurance companies, real estate, investment bankers, traders, and even the public sector?
And let's assume Apple's stock falls to $10-15. Will you still be gung ho on Apples capitalization on the digital lifestyle?
Pretty scary looking chart if you ask me, huh?
Ok, I don't understand stocks and all that so here is some sane commentary on Apple valuation. These guys haven't always been favorable to Apple's stock situation but what they say sounds fairly straight forward to me.
"Yet that's what happens when you price perfection into a stock. While the company is clearly on track to obliterate Wall Street's expectations for Apple to earn about $1.11 a share this year -- which means the stock is trading for less, perhaps significantly less, than its year-ahead P/E multiple of 34 -- longs shouldn't fret a little pessimism creeping back into the stock. Relish it. That's usually the best way to assure that the next time the company delivers better-than-expected news that the market will behave appropriately." --
Motley Fool
The issue here is "better-than-expected news" which I believe will be forthcoming this year with new product announcements and strategic alliances. The next big thing is video and the cell chip.
Now, as to where this is all headed I would direct you to a facinating analysis of the coming Apple revolution and the demise of Microsoft. Take time to read all Neo's articles listed at the bottom of the page. And after you get through with all his detailed analysis, ask yourelf the question: does Steve Jobs have the vision and intuition to pull it off?
The Future is Apple
gugy said:
Yeah, so they were wrong in saying that they would be announced at NAB, but they are coming pretty soon. And their record is better than "not bad". They have probably the best record among rumor sites. Not everything comes to pass, hence the "rumor" designation.
People are still in denial that THERE ARE NO NEW POWERMACS YET. The specs are exactly what Apple would do if NO NEW CPU'S ARE READY.
Stevie boy must be livid right now.
Jobs
Here's the 65 million dollar response. Removing Steve Jobs is removing the heart of Apple. Whether you like to admit it or not, and despite his flaws, Jobs is the glue that holds Apple together. As someone mentioned before, he saved Apple after being fired once. Kill Jobs and you kill Apple, plain and simple.BenRoethig said:
BenRoethig said:
That's why people wear tin-foiled hats when reading anything Apple. Gotta deflect that RDF.
Hmm, I now officially predict that this will be a short-lived revision, but not *that* short-lived, with 970MP-based systems to be introduced at Paris Expo. I don't see a new line of super-pro Macs at WWDC.
When the 970MP *does* come out, I would sure love for Apple to take the opportunity to introduce a reduced-form factor tower, with either a 970GX on the low end or a single 970MP on the high end. If they eliminate the need for two CPUs, the box can get a heck of a lot smaller. This would be a fantastic system.
Of course, they'll still need to keep the big monster cases for the quad-core systems. But really, won't they need something in between the single-core iMac and the quad-core PowerMac? I don't see a dual-core iMac unless the power numbers for the MP are *really* great. More likely a GX at 2.5-3 Ghz.
In any case, this revision will be dependent on price reductions to keep the masses calm (not necessarily happy).
When the 970MP *does* come out, I would sure love for Apple to take the opportunity to introduce a reduced-form factor tower, with either a 970GX on the low end or a single 970MP on the high end. If they eliminate the need for two CPUs, the box can get a heck of a lot smaller. This would be a fantastic system.
Of course, they'll still need to keep the big monster cases for the quad-core systems. But really, won't they need something in between the single-core iMac and the quad-core PowerMac? I don't see a dual-core iMac unless the power numbers for the MP are *really* great. More likely a GX at 2.5-3 Ghz.
In any case, this revision will be dependent on price reductions to keep the masses calm (not necessarily happy).
RowdyBacon said:Hmmmm....might not this announcement be a better indicator of whether or not dual-core PowerMacs are on the horizon?
http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/04/18/lightwave/index.php
As one of the posters points out, Lightwave is a cross-platform application, and this could merely be in anticipation of Intel's and AMD's soon-to-be dual-core processors. But I've got a feeling these guys know something the rest of us don't.
Possible good mac news, true...HOPEFULLY true (especially considering they say its getting released in a few days). However, they are also developing a 64bit version, a mac 64bit version...no (they say its more work and doing x86 first (not $$ justifyable i say
). So lets just keep the fingers crossed. Man i hope they realease a beast tomorrow.... actually.. i just hope there is SOME update tomorrow..or new