Mozilla is 'Extremely Disappointed' With Implementation of Apple's EU Browser Engine Change

[I7guy]

That’s clearly not the point though. The point is Apple is fragmenting its own system at the detriment to both devs and customer base, in order to have a cry about being mandated by law to implement changes.

This is a side issue as to why competition by government regulations is bad for all.

No, they don’t need to make sure the iPad abides by the same rules. But in actively preventing it they’re fracturing their own ecosystem. They could have bitten the bullet, and done something elegant.

Instead they’re acting like spoilt rotten children megalomaniacs who have had their toys power taken away.

Yes, and they should protect their turf. The Eu came in and made the iPhone a public utility. And this is apple’s response. Maybe this disconnect will be good for other phone manufacturers.

 

[XboxEvolved]

It’s really disappointing that Apple has essentially become the thing they railed against for decades. Hopefully they come to their sense and do the right thing in the end which I suspect they will, but probably not because they wanted to but because they would be forced to.

 

[gnipgnop]

That’s clearly not the point though. The point is Apple is fragmenting its own system at the detriment to both devs and customer base, in order to have a cry about being mandated by law to implement changes.

The system has always been fragmented. It's never been monolithic. Mozilla used their own engine for Mac and Webkit for iPhone/iPad. Now they use their own engine for Mac/iPhone and Webkit for iPad. Big deal.

 

[I7guy]

It’s really disappointing that Apple has essentially become the thing they railed against for decades. Hopefully they come to their sense and do the right thing in the end which I suspect they will, but probably not because they wanted to but because they would be forced to.

They were forced into a corner; don’t you see? Whatever they are doing they are doing the right thing based on these regulations.

As I said in another thread, could be good for other phone manufacturers.

 

[cupcakes2000]

The system has always been fragmented. It's never been monolithic. Mozilla used their own engine for Mac and Webkit for iPhone/iPad. Now they use their own engine for Mac/iPhone and Webkit for iPad. Big deal.

The Mac is completely different. The iPhone and the iPad are pretty much identical. The app ecosystem between the latter two is essentially shared. It is a big deal.

 

[cupcakes2000]

This is a side issue as to why competition by government regulations is bad for all.



Yes, and they should protect their turf. The Eu came in and made the iPhone a public utility. And this is apple’s response. Maybe this disconnect will be good for other phone manufacturers.

No, the EU came along and said certain companies which qualify must now abide by an equal opportunities law.

They didn’t come for Apple or anything nearly so emotional.

 

[dk001]

Apple is just doing the minimum to comply with EU regulations. Who would have thought. EU will probably need to extend the DMA, which will take some years again. So good for Apple.

Minimum in spirit, minimum in letter, most it currently can in the loopholes.

Interesting times.

 

[gnipgnop]

The Mac is completely different. The iPhone and the iPad are pretty much identical. The app ecosystem between the latter two is essentially shared. It is a big deal.

Mozilla already has a Webkit version of Firefox for iPad. They don't have to do anything new. And they were already willing to support the native version and Webkit version for Apple products. They're yelling/screaming about nothing.

 

[gnipgnop]

No, the EU came along and said certain companies which qualify must now abide by an equal opportunities law.

And they also set the user cap for the regulations. You're complaining about Apple following the cap per iPadOS.

 

[QuarterSwede]

During pwn2own, Safari was always the first to fall. Apple didn't see the gaping holes.

Right, but they have control over that engine. They’re at the whim of all of the other browser companies on when holes get fixed. That’s the way they see it.

 

[cupcakes2000]

Mozilla already has a Webkit version of Firefox for iPad. They don't have to do anything new. And they were already willing to support the native version and Webkit version for Apple products. They're yelling/screaming about nothing.

They still have to maintain it, and we have a separate app with a separate user experience. It’s not nothing, whether you keep saying it or not.

And they also set the user cap for the regulations. You're complaining about Apple following the cap per iPadOS.

Yep I am. They’re following it to the letter. And with the products that are being regulated they’re being convoluted and controlling. Not to mention unfair and favouring their own AppStore.

All they need to do is accept defeat. It is defeat. It’s the law. And short of leaving the massive EU market, they must follow it.

But they’re doing it in the worst most self harming, customer harming, indie developer harming way possible.

Throw in the towel and make it an elegant solution like we’re used too from Apple.

This nonsense is going to get them nowhere.

 

[XboxEvolved]

They were forced into a corner; don’t you see? Whatever they are doing they are doing the right thing based on these regulations.

As I said in another thread, could be good for other phone manufacturers.

What

 

[Rogifan]

It could be that the other engines aren't as optimised as WebKit.
But then again, the other browser will optimise for that as well, they don't want to lose their customers either.
And even if the battery life was worse, maybe it's a trade off that I'm willing to make in order to have a consistent browsing experience?

The scaremongering from Apple is such a bad look.

 

[hans1972]

I think you have a disturbing and bizarre outlook on the situation.

What's wrong with this?

• Native application should be the preferred way of doing computing
• Web browser should be for browsing, not complex applications which don't integrate with the OS and don't respect the UI of the platform
• One single place to get all the software for the system
• One single entity to deal with when it comes to buying, canceling subscriptions, getting a refund, complaining, one place to enter payment details
• A software environment which protects you from the developer doing this you don't want like contacting you by email or any other means, getting access to your contacts, locations, pictures and other data you have
• A software environment where the developer is forced to accept strict data collection and privacy rules
• Denying developers to use ads in their applications
• Denying developers selling your information and kicking them out for all time if it's discovered
• A focus on making simple devices where the complexity should be hidden and denied from/for the users. The users shouldn't do anything complex, the app should make a complex process simple so the user don't have to.

iOS isn't perfect, but it is the closest.

 

[hans1972]

I think you have a disturbing and bizarre outlook on the situation.

But do you understand why I'm against the DMA and why it will make my computing experience worse?

 

[hans1972]

They still have to maintain it, and we have a separate app with a separate user experience. It’s not nothing, whether you keep saying it or not.

Yep I am. They’re following it to the letter. And with the products that are being regulated they’re being convoluted and controlling. Not to mention unfair and favouring their own AppStore.

All they need to do is accept defeat. It is defeat. It’s the law. And short of leaving the massive EU market, they must follow it.

But they’re doing it in the worst most self harming, customer harming, indie developer harming way possible.

Throw in the towel and make it an elegant solution like we’re used too from Apple.

This nonsense is going to get them nowhere.

If the EU was more principled they could have made the DMA apply to everyone instead of just some very large companies with large usage of certain software/services.

I mean the DMA doesn't now apply to any smartphone, streaming service or AI-service. In fact, smartphones are immune to the DMA.

 

[I7guy]

No, the EU came along and said certain companies which qualify must now abide by an equal opportunities law.

They didn’t come for Apple or anything nearly so emotional.

They threaded the needle with apple and they did “come for them”, in my opinion.

 

[cupcakes2000]

What's wrong with this?

• Native application should be the preferred way of doing computing
• Web browser should be for browsing, not complex applications which don't integrate with the OS and don't respect the UI of the platform
• One single place to get all the software for the system
• One single entity to deal with when it comes to buying, canceling subscriptions, getting a refund, complaining, one place to enter payment details
• A software environment which protects you from the developer doing this you don't want like contacting you by email or any other means, getting access to your contacts, locations, pictures and other data you have
• A software environment where the developer is forced to accept strict data collection and privacy rules
• Denying developers to use ads in their applications
• Denying developers selling your information and kicking them out for all time if it's discovered
• A focus on making simple devices where the complexity should be hidden and denied from/for the users. The users shouldn't do anything complex, the app should make a complex process simple so the user don't have to.

iOS isn't perfect, but it is the closest.

For the most part (aside your weird anti ALL developer except Apple developer rants, and your weird text only internet or whatever you think you want), there’s nothing wrong with it. And, guess what? Apple aren’t changing any aspect of that experience for you.

But do you understand why I'm against the DMA and why it will make my computing experience worse?

I fully understand why you’re against it, I have spent a lot of time on these forums advocating against it. I worry about grandma being tricked into download a fake version of her banking app and being siphoned of her life savings. This type of phishing will surely exist at the start, and grandma has never known anything other than the soft cuddly arms of Apple.

But nontheless, it’s here, and its tough luck. Now, its already pretty hard to ‘side load’ on a mac, where its always existed, so im pretty sure they will rightly make it also difficult to stumble on to in iOS, you and grandma should remain quite safe. Certainly any apps loaded by any means on your phone will have the same secure sandbox etc anyway. It’s really ok.


Now. You’re turn. Now it’s here, cant you see how much of a mess they’re purposely creating?

 

[cupcakes2000]

If the EU was more principled they could have made the DMA apply to everyone instead of just some very large companies with large usage of certain software/services.

I mean the DMA doesn't now apply to any smartphone, streaming service or AI-service. In fact, smartphones are immune to the DMA.

But not that many companies are in a position to wield anywhere near the type of power that companies like Alphabet, Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, Meta have. Nowhere near.

 

[I7guy]

[…].


Now. You’re turn. Now it’s here, cant you see how much of a mess they’re purposely creating?

When you say they, you mean the DMA. People might not have liked the way apple operated, but they didn’t vote with their $$$ and that’s on them then. (And the fact that epic is even going be back on the iPhone is a nod to how truly screwed up these regulations are)

So apple responded in a way that protects their interest and presumably customer interests even though some here on MacRumors are still critical of apple.

Not going to please everybody.

 

[cupcakes2000]

They threaded the needle with apple and they did “come for them”, in my opinion.

Perhaps it appears so with this regulation, as they’re the only company which exerts such control on their systems. Anyway, I respect your opinion. I used to have the same opinion of sorts, but I’m over that now.

 

[I7guy]

But not that many companies are in a position to wield anywhere near the type of power that companies like Alphabet, Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, Meta have. Nowhere near.

Exactly what power does apple yield that it didn’t yield in 2007/2008?

 

[cupcakes2000]

When you say they, you mean the DMA. People might not have liked the way apple operated, but they didn’t vote with their $$$ and that’s on them then. (And the fact that epic is even going be back on the iPhone is a nod to how truly screwed up these regulations are)

So apple responded in a way that protects their interest and presumably customer interests even though some here on MacRumors are still critical of apple.

Not going to please everybody.

No, Apple. Apple could have made an elegant solution to the law they‘re obliged to follow. They could have loosened up iPadOS to ease the transition. There’s nothing they can do about it. It’s happening. But instead they’re making a mess of it, seemingly on purpose. Solo indie devs can’t offer a free app on github, becuase if it goes viral they will owe Apple a fortune that they haven’t even made? Yet you can release the same app on the AppStore worry free?
Firefox, brave, chrome blah blah on the iphone will be forced to either not bother using a different engine or be forced to either withdraw the ipad app or ad an extra build onto essentially the exact same system? This is Apple, and Apple only making it like this.

 

[silentdevotion]

This is all leaving a really bad taste. If this is their attitude towards developers, why should people keep developing for their platforms 😓

This is what people have been saying forever, Apple and Google rule with iron fists, regulation is what balances these kind of issues. Apple will do whatever they can to give a developer the crappiest user experience because they are not using the App Store. The same will move onto the end user not because Apple's is better because they will add in every hurdle to make it seem like other stores are worse.

 

[cupcakes2000]

Exactly what power does apple yield that it didn’t yield in 2007/2008?

That doesn’t really mean anything. The law is now, and the law deems apple and others unlawful. You may not like it, Apple may not like it. That’s very much besides the point. We all - for the most part - live under a rule of law.