No web cam support? Come one MS you can do better than that. If MSN is used so heavily outside of the US, I would think MS would want to take advantage of that and get in the video support. Oh well, glad all my friends use AIM. Seeing as how AIM is not used much outside of the US, any chance Apple could release an MSN/other compatable version of iChat for non-US customers?
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MSN Messenger 4.0 (Images)
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Updated MSFT Apps...
In the FWIW department, there are many folks that when they look at the possibility of switching, having MSFT Word, Excel and PP on the Mac go a long ways in making it more easy for them to consider switching. For these soles, unfortunate or not, they must have compatability with these three apps since their business/jobs rely upon it.
Sushi
Unfortunately, this is a very narrow minded view that I hope never comes to fruition. I hope that MSFT continues to update Office and VPC.DPazdanISU said:
In the FWIW department, there are many folks that when they look at the possibility of switching, having MSFT Word, Excel and PP on the Mac go a long ways in making it more easy for them to consider switching. For these soles, unfortunate or not, they must have compatability with these three apps since their business/jobs rely upon it.
Sushi
jouster said:
i think people are just pissed that the 'update' is hardly that. Same skin, same old MSN with limited features and a few new smileys.
As someone pointed out before, you can already use a program that connects to the majority of the major chat clients at once, so why the hell hasn't Apple made MSN support an essential part of iChat? oh, and Yahoo/ICQ etc... all of them. I want just ONE chat app, not 4! :'(
Plus living in the UK, i can vouche for the fact that NOBODY uses AIM over here.. NOBODY! N-O-B-O-D-Y
F*ck Buddies! We want Friends!
I'm just mad at MS. Its 3 days of work for a few of their programmers, still they wont do it.
IF they did it, it would simply KILL iChat's chances in non-AIM-countries.
If I should use iChat, I would have to get friends with either Macs or the guts to install AIM if they were on PeeCee's. But they wont, because AIM is such an uggly program. I can't understand that americans prefer it instead of MSN 6.1, wich actually is beautiful compared to AIM.
TorbX said:
I'm just mad at MS. Its 3 days of work for a few of their programmers, still they wont do it.
IF they did it, it would simply KILL iChat's chances in non-AIM-countries.
If I should use iChat, I would have to get friends with either Macs or the guts to install AIM if they were on PeeCee's. But they wont, because AIM is such an uggly program. I can't understand that americans prefer it instead of MSN 6.1, wich actually is beautiful compared to AIM.
AIM is ugly but it was one of the first IM clients. I think thats why most here in the US use AIM, simply because it has been around forever. I also remember when MSN came out, they had to have AIM support because no one would use it but AOL kept blocking them and MS finally gave up.
It's funny listening to people say Microsoft blows etc etc, when AIM blows just as much, and is making a profit off of us too... I do not see a difference between the companies. The only thing I can say towards AIM and MSN, is that I have more friends that use MSN, then they use AIM or ICQ...
And to a friend who said: "Come on guys get with the program use AIM! Everyone else on Macs use it!" - So, I'm guessing cause it's bundled means we should all use it? This is exactly why Microsoft is getting lawsuits these days, cause they keep bundling software together. So in the end, no, not everyone uses AIM just cause they have a mac, and IMO I believe that the ability to pick and choose is a must for everyone as it allows for free thinking, and that is the point of Apple or atleast it used to be? Can't tell with Apple these days.
But yes, Microsoft seems to be lacking with the updates they put in. But I would feel very alienated from Apple in this day and age with how Apple is acting towards it's competition. Will Apple take on Adobe next? They are taking on a lot of other companies with apps like iMovie and Garageband.
Apple is doing the exact same thing that Microsoft was/is doing. Creating apps that either come bundled or are made by Apple. E.G. - Safari (IE), Appleworks (Office), iTunes (Media Player) - what's the difference between Apple and Microsoft??? I'm going to get flamed etc etc, and I'm a mac lover myself, but if you really look hard, what's putting them apart from eachother these days?
And to a friend who said: "Come on guys get with the program use AIM! Everyone else on Macs use it!" - So, I'm guessing cause it's bundled means we should all use it? This is exactly why Microsoft is getting lawsuits these days, cause they keep bundling software together. So in the end, no, not everyone uses AIM just cause they have a mac, and IMO I believe that the ability to pick and choose is a must for everyone as it allows for free thinking, and that is the point of Apple or atleast it used to be? Can't tell with Apple these days.
But yes, Microsoft seems to be lacking with the updates they put in. But I would feel very alienated from Apple in this day and age with how Apple is acting towards it's competition. Will Apple take on Adobe next? They are taking on a lot of other companies with apps like iMovie and Garageband.
Apple is doing the exact same thing that Microsoft was/is doing. Creating apps that either come bundled or are made by Apple. E.G. - Safari (IE), Appleworks (Office), iTunes (Media Player) - what's the difference between Apple and Microsoft??? I'm going to get flamed etc etc, and I'm a mac lover myself, but if you really look hard, what's putting them apart from eachother these days?
move all the coders (except the UI person) over to entourage and get it properly working with Exchange Server. no one gives a damn about your MSN messenger. put the coders where you may make some money (and solve a lot of headaches). weak!!!
coolfactor said:
Thats so true. When I lived in the states everyone used aim. Up here everyone uses msn. Yesterday I told my cousin I use aim and she just looked at me with a blank stare. So now I use iChat for my American friends and msn and yahoo for my Canadian friends.
I don't understand is it because it has America in it's title or what, why can't they use aim?
this is starting to irritate. i use aim NOT msn and am in the uk. the same goes for most people i know. in fact only two people spring to mind that dont use aim.djdarlek said:Plus living in the UK, i can vouche for the fact that NOBODY uses AIM over here.. NOBODY! N-O-B-O-D-Y
F*ck Buddies! We want Friends!
in fact, i dont even mind aims quite unattractive interface, i like that it keeps the whole thing simple, hardly any smilies (and they all suck except bondage, slut and precious
-x :-* and O ) )the fancier the im app, the less the process of chatting relies on actual conversation.
just my humble opinion.
Krrill said:
There is A LOT of difference. It's not just that MS has apps that come bundled with windows, it's that they have lines in the windows code to take on its competitors, that is, to prevent apps from competitors from working the way they should. This is part of the reason why the EU had them "punished"Besides, Apple just gives you more choices, and better choices. Proof of that is that both IE and Safari come with OSX.
Another difference is that Apple uses industry standards.
MS loves to put their "twist" into everything and then once everyone has it they change it, they charge for it, and they control what happens.
Again IE is a nice example. They stopped developing for any OS other than windows... what about the losers who developed their websites to work with IE and don't have windows? That would suck
Besides, Apple doesn't include inferior apps with OSX. That can't be said about MS
jouster said:
I use MSN all the time. I have one pathetic "buddy" in iChat and that is because I wanted to try it.
BUT this is BAD news... c'mon! MSN for windows is really cool, and in the mac this seems like the first version I downloaded for a PC 4 years ago! No webcam?? WTF?
In Mexico everybody uses crappy MSN, so to chat with friends and family I have to use it, but it's OBVIOUSLY inferior on the mac.
It's like "BIG NEWS, BIG NEWS!! New version of MSN includes all of the emoticos"
Not new interface, no web cam, no nothing.
Hope at least they make it more stable and improve the connection!!
Venting here, sorry. MSN sucks. This update sucks.
EULA
And have any of you read the EULA that comes with MS Messenger on the Mac (and presumably, on the PC as well)?
I stopped using MSM on the last revision due to the clauses in the EULA which stated (paraphrased):
"1. We provide updates periodically. We can revoke your right to use the program if you do not upgrade and we want you to."
"2. We are allowed to charge for upgrades if we want to."
This effectively says I am renting their software. If they want to, I have to pay them periodically (each update) or be legally required to stop using it. This type of EULA behavior is one of the main reasons I switched from the PC to a Mac (that and OS X, and I refused to use MSM after they included this wording in it.
Would you buy the next version of OS X if it said "from now on, you HAVE to purchase each new upgrade we offer, or stop using the old versions you already paid for"?
John Whitney
And have any of you read the EULA that comes with MS Messenger on the Mac (and presumably, on the PC as well)?
I stopped using MSM on the last revision due to the clauses in the EULA which stated (paraphrased):
"1. We provide updates periodically. We can revoke your right to use the program if you do not upgrade and we want you to."
"2. We are allowed to charge for upgrades if we want to."
This effectively says I am renting their software. If they want to, I have to pay them periodically (each update) or be legally required to stop using it. This type of EULA behavior is one of the main reasons I switched from the PC to a Mac (that and OS X
, and I refused to use MSM after they included this wording in it.Would you buy the next version of OS X if it said "from now on, you HAVE to purchase each new upgrade we offer, or stop using the old versions you already paid for"?
John Whitney
ssnmx said:
Besides, Apple just gives you more choices, and better choices. Proof of that is that both IE and Safari come with OSX.
Another difference is that Apple uses industry standards.
MS loves to put their "twist" into everything and then once everyone has it they change it, they charge for it, and they control what happens.
Again IE is a nice example. They stopped developing for any OS other than windows... what about the losers who developed their websites to work with IE and don't have windows? That would suck
Besides, Apple doesn't include inferior apps with OSX. That can't be said about MS
LOL no offence, but Office isn't an inferior app... Why do so many mac people want to use it? And as for the reason why IE stopped development for mac, is cause Apple created Safari.
And as for the reason IE still comes bundled, is because they still have a contract with Microsoft... I'm sort of lost as to what websites only work with IE? Haven't been to one yet *Shrugs*
The point to my whole thing was not to pull down Apple, but to make people realize that Apple is going towards a different trend/market. Apple has changed, and it's not what it used to be. Apple computers are for the yuppie market, and not all of us are Yuppies.
BTW told you so! LOL got flamed!
I know a lot of kids who use MSN because they have a Hotmail account and just kind of got drawn in that direction. I would like to see iChat work with MSN then the kids who are smart enough in that group would use iChat and not leave their chatting buddies behind.
This is good news. Apple zealotry aside, messenger is a great chat client. I have used it since its initial offering, for communication between PC and Mac clients in large development shops. It'll be nice to see improvements to the Mac end finally.
adzoox said:
so do I, and I actually still have an ICQ-account that I use through fire (because all of my friends use ICQ)
wasn't ICQ bought out by AOL??? if so, why wasn't it merged with AIM???
vSpacken
neon said:this is starting to irritate. i use aim NOT msn and am in the uk. the same goes for most people i know. in fact only two people spring to mind that dont use aim.
in fact, i dont even mind aims quite unattractive interface, i like that it keeps the whole thing simple, hardly any smilies (and they all suck except bondage, slut and precious
the fancier the im app, the less the process of chatting relies on actual conversation.
just my humble opinion.
Well I have to say i think your in a minority in the UK. I've been using chat programes for years and i've only ever known about three people in the uk who use aim. Most of the people i know use yahoo and msn. It was the same in university and in work.
What I'd really like to see is for all chat programes to have to option to interact with one another, but thats never going to happen. there might be alliances but i cant see one common standard for all chat programmes.
im just gutted there is no cam and voice on msn mess 4.0. i've tried using ichat and it just doesnt work with aim users for me (refering to cam functionality). I have a few freinds in the states and i really want to use voice with them, but its not an option at the moment.
jay
That's kind of a lame statement. Like it or hate it, most of the world uses MS Office and I'm very grateful to be able to use those apps on my mac instead of having to boot up my old PC. In fact, I wish they would come out with MS Project and Visio for Mac and I would never need to be on a windows machine again. What are you going to run as an alternative, Appleworks (junk) or Star Office (does anyone use that outside of the Linux/Solaris world?)
Being a purist only puts Apple in a bad market spot. If you don't want to run them, you have a choice...don't install.
And as far as applications crashing, the one that dies the most on my computer is Safari. I haven't had any problems with Word and wouldn't know about IE (why use it when there are plenty of other/better browsers out there). No better between my iMac running 10.2 and my 1.8 ghz g5 running 10.3. Of course, it doesn't freeze, it just craps out kills the process. I still use it because I'm to lazy to install Mozilla, NS or Opera.
Being a purist only puts Apple in a bad market spot. If you don't want to run them, you have a choice...don't install.
And as far as applications crashing, the one that dies the most on my computer is Safari. I haven't had any problems with Word and wouldn't know about IE (why use it when there are plenty of other/better browsers out there). No better between my iMac running 10.2 and my 1.8 ghz g5 running 10.3. Of course, it doesn't freeze, it just craps out kills the process. I still use it because I'm to lazy to install Mozilla, NS or Opera.
DPazdanISU said:In my opinion Microsoft making further versions of apps for osx sucks. I would rather not have any microsoft apps on my mac because that just allows them to make a profit off of us
Why apple wont make ichat work with msn messinger for now
For all those out who keep saying apple should make iChat compatible with msn messinger.
Well wont and the reason is because they want to be on the good side of aol, since they and recently have made some really good deals for apple in itune department( I dont know if any of you noticed but in iTunes you can just use your aol screen name too buy music with and the charge just gos to ur aol bill. Also the aim 5.5 thing was designed partly by aol too be compatible with ichat.
Perhaps this would be different if apple had chosen msn messinger insted of aim when they first made ichat but im guessing they chase aim because regaurdless of its lacke of use in countries other than the usa its still the most widly used messinging service. So really its juts about politics.
As for why aim advertises how else are they gonna make money on it it is free. im betting msn dosn't have it as much cus they caan affaord to to offer a completly free product if in the end it will make there product dominate so then they can start doing things to bring in money
well just my opinion and sorry for and bad spelling, grammer, etc
i really suck at catching that stuff
For all those out who keep saying apple should make iChat compatible with msn messinger.
Well wont and the reason is because they want to be on the good side of aol, since they and recently have made some really good deals for apple in itune department( I dont know if any of you noticed but in iTunes you can just use your aol screen name too buy music with and the charge just gos to ur aol bill. Also the aim 5.5 thing was designed partly by aol too be compatible with ichat.
Perhaps this would be different if apple had chosen msn messinger insted of aim when they first made ichat but im guessing they chase aim because regaurdless of its lacke of use in countries other than the usa its still the most widly used messinging service. So really its juts about politics.
As for why aim advertises how else are they gonna make money on it it is free. im betting msn dosn't have it as much cus they caan affaord to to offer a completly free product if in the end it will make there product dominate so then they can start doing things to bring in money
well just my opinion and sorry for and bad spelling, grammer, etc
i really suck at catching that stuff