My Fight w/ AT&T

[uberamd]

Does it really matter what my reasoning is? I'm sure a whole bunch more people have much more ludicrous reasons to not choose one particular service or product as opposed to another.

The bottom line is, upset customers talk. They talk a whole lot more than satisfied customers. We, as MacRumors forums members, know this better than most. If I'm unhappy, whatever my reason, I'll make it be known. And when it comes time for the parentals (as an example) to get a new service (and they're thinking about switching) they'll recall my discussion about how much I disliked AT&T and they won't even consider them.

It happens way more than you think, bud.

When someone bad-mouths a service to me and tells me not to sign up, I ALWAYS ask why. Every single time. This means the person bad-mouthing the service needs to tell me why not to sign up. And, if they told me your story, I would laugh in their face and probably kick them in the shins. Seriously. Are you going to lie to your friends and family when they ask why they shouldn't sign up for AT&T? WHAT are you going to bad-mouth them about even? The fact that you didn't qualify and couldn't upgrade?

You make no sense.

 

[yg17]

"Way to treat customers who have been loyal to you through (now 3) exclusive AT&T devices and over three years of service."

Ok.. I'm guessing not more than 4 years of service. Still not overly loyal since, again - you're loyal to the iphone NOT ATT

And don't forget that the subsidy is what you get for being loyal. You promise to be loyal to AT&T for 2 years (or pay a hefty ETF) and you get a discount. It's really the only industry where you get the loyalty bonus before being a customer for an extended period of time.

Actually, it's really the only industry where you get a loyalty bonus at all. That, and cars occasionally have bonuses for past owners. I don't get a discount at Target because I shop there often

 

[EnderTW]

This is *exactly* right. All 3G owners who bought at the subsidised price knew fine well they wouldn't be eligable for upgrade pricing until at least 18 months had passed. The fact the AT&T changed the rules the allow some customers to upgrade after only 12 is a generous offer on AT&Ts part! It's done the OP no harm as his upgrade date has not been altered.

The problem was they gave the discount after the fact.

This was AT&T's mistake. They need to either 1) Give it to everyone or 2) give it to no one.

The OP has a point. His "2 year contract" had nothing about 99 dollars a month being the magic number to be eligible in one year.

This is what most of you are missing.

Yes it is absurd of him to think handing $120 would be equivalent to their rate system. However the bottom line is that AT&T shouldn't have offered the new discount plan unless it would be applied to all, and at the same time declaring 99.99 as the "magic" number for next year.

 

[Outrigger]

...right... along with my BS degree (pun intended) in Hospitality Management in which I took financial account, managerial accounting, macro and micro, and a myriad of economics courses (many of which focused on tourism, to be fair).

My understand of any of that, however, is irrelevant. It seems illogical to tell a customer that they can't qualify for a promotion because they didn't spend $120 more with you, and then not accept their $120 when they offer it.

Hospitality Mangement degree? it doesn't make a difference if you have a phD in rocket science and do pro bono work on the side. You think ATT should bend backwards for you cause you've been a loyal customer? They don't owe you anything so stop acting like like they SHOULD do you a favor. Don't like it? you can print a big sign in Times Square telling everyone to leave ATT. Maybe the fact that no one on here seems to agree with your logic or the lack of should tell you that its pretty flawed to begin with. It seems like you're a little kid throwing a tantrum cause he can't get what he wants in the toy store. I suggest you leave ATT so the customer service can focuse on helping those that really do need help.

And btw, I left ATT cause I didn't like their high prices. Don't like it? I suggest you do the same instead of moaning and groaning looking for sympathy which you clearly are not getting any.

 

[Slip Jigs]

It's amazing how many posts there are that basically say the same two things:

1. I hate ATT they suck and treat me bad!
2. You signed a contract you knew what you were getting into!

 

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

$120 today is certainly not the same thing as $120 yesterday. If you understand the slightest thing about economics / investments you would know that.

Thn do a time value of money calculation and fill it in for him. Let's say $130. No one is getting this thread. He's not pissed at ATT, he KNOWS he signed a contract. He's simply asking if there's anything logically wrong with his idea of paying upfront money as opposed to that money over a period of time.

To all the people saying "stop whining!", read the thread! This is not the same as those people who thought they were entitled to be eligible. He's asking a question and I answered it on the first page. I just don't think ATT has the protocols set up to accept a lump sum payment in terms of training their employees how to handle it and the accouting practices they'd have to use to accept one.

 

[dagomike]

The OP has a point. His "2 year contract" had nothing about 99 dollars a month being the magic number to be eligible in one year.

This is what most of you are missing.

Yes it is absurd of him to think handing $120 would be equivalent to their rate system. However the bottom line is that AT&T shouldn't have offered the new discount plan unless it would be applied to all, and at the same time declaring 99.99 as the "magic" number for next year.

His contract had a magic number, and that was 24 months. The fact that ATT lets some subscribers upgrade to a new phone early is entirely dependent on their contract rate. The more they spend, the faster they pay down that subsidy, the more attractive they are to retain by resigning earlier. When ATT decides to offer an early upgrade is completely up to them, and as long as it's done equitably, I'm fine with that. ATT decided to give its best customers a break and expand the window of elegibility. If you're not in the group, you don't deserve the consideration.

 

[Shiner]

It's amazing how many posts there are that basically say the same two things:

1. I hate ATT they suck and treat me bad!
2. You signed a contract you knew what you were getting into!

It just goes to show you there are a ton of stupid people in the world.

 

[dagomike]

He's simply asking if there's anything logically wrong with his idea of paying upfront money as opposed to that money over a period of time.

That's ignoring the retention factor. If you spent $100/mo month for the last 12 months, it's reasonable you will keep spending it for the next 24 months. If you just pay the difference of that 100 from the past 12 months, there is no reason to expect to get that difference over the next 24 months.

 

[brownieguy19]

His contract had a magic number, and that was 24 months. The fact that ATT lets some subscribers upgrade to a new phone early is entirely dependent on their contract rate. The more they spend, the faster they pay down that subsidy, the more attractive they are to retain by resigning earlier. When ATT decides to offer an early upgrade is completely up to them, and as long as it's done equitably, I'm fine with that. ATT decided to give its best customers a break and expand the window of elegibility. If you're not in the group, you don't deserve the consideration.

Not true. As soon as ANYTHING changes in the contract, the consumer has the right to terminate the contract. The contract becomes NULL and VOID. AT&T can't make a single change to the contract without limiting their ability to hold the consumer to the original contract.

 

[dagomike]

Not true. As soon as ANYTHING changes in the contract, the consumer has the right to terminate the contract. The contract becomes NULL and VOID. AT&T can't make a single change to the contract without limiting their ability to hold the consumer to the original contract.

ATT doesn't need to offer you an early upgrade. That's at their discretion.

 

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

Not true. As soon as ANYTHING changes in the contract, the consumer has the right to terminate the contract. The contract becomes NULL and VOID. AT&T can't make a single change to the contract without limiting their ability to hold the consumer to the original contract.

They didn't change the contract.


EDIT: I can't tell if you're being serious with the post I quoted. If you are joking, touche.

 

[Zengrok]

Clearly I did write too much, as no one really bothered to read.

I understand that I MUST spend $99 per month. I spent $89 over the last 12 months. The difference being: $10 per month. Times 12 months. Equals $120.

No? No one else sees this?
I give them $120 extra dollars to make up the difference, and they make me upgrade eligible. In other words:

Those that DID spend exactly $99 month save $200, whereas those that spent $120 less than them over the course of 12 months, have to spend an extra $200. Do you see the $80 discrepancy I'm trying to get at?

Geez, I feel like Buford Tannen and Doc Brown in BTTF Part III: "That's the $80 dollars!"

Your logic is flawed. Anyone in contract for $99 would be in that contract for 2 years. Yes, they're 12 months in, but 12 months more to go. So for your logic to work, you'd have to give them $240 to cover the $10 difference per month (10x 24 months).

Seems to me paying $200 is a deal then.

 

[pavvento]

Does it really matter what my reasoning is? I'm sure a whole bunch more people have much more ludicrous reasons to not choose one particular service or product as opposed to another.

The bottom line is, upset customers talk. They talk a whole lot more than satisfied customers. We, as MacRumors forums members, know this better than most. If I'm unhappy, whatever my reason, I'll make it be known. And when it comes time for the parentals (as an example) to get a new service (and they're thinking about switching) they'll recall my discussion about how much I disliked AT&T and they won't even consider them.

It happens way more than you think, bud.

No sir (or mam), upset customers walk, and you did the exact opposite by signing on for another 2 years.

 

[-aggie-]

Arguing about all this is pointless. AT&T wouldn't do what he wanted and complaining is not going to change anything. They already reduced the upgrade time and that's all they're going to do. All the reasoning behind what he proposes should be reasonable doesn't matter if AT&T, for whatever reason, doesn't want to do it. It's their product.

 

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

Your logic is flawed. Anyone in contract for $99 would be in that contract for 2 years. Yes, they're 12 months in, but 12 months more to go. So for your logic to work, you'd have to give them $240 to cover the $10 difference per month (10x 24 months).

But some of those people who are still on contract for a year are getting the upgrade eligibility. ATT's decision, no doubt, was done after thinking about what percentage of people who pay over $99 per month would take advantage of the eligibility. Since everyone won't take advantage of it, the magic number is somewhere in between $120 and $240 for the OP. That's what it is logically (also taking into account time value of money). But practically, I think they're just not able to do it because of their procedures.


EDIT: Ok, NOW the OP is whining. Look, you should be upset with yourself, not ATT. They're not doing anything wrong. You set this thread up as a test of your logic to see if there was anything flaws with your thinking. You've now morphed it into "I'm the consumer!! ATT has to obey me!".

 

[pilotkid]

I haven't read everyone responses, just skimmed the first couple but here is what I think...1. You signed the freaking contract, you know from Apples track record that they will most likely release a iPhone every summer. 2. You are the type of customer that everyone who works in retail/customer service hates. I work in that field, at a popular coffee chain and there are at times some very difficult customers. If someone acts like you did, they aren't getting SH*T. Why would I budge and let you win, and let you have the satisfaction of thinking your tuff sh*t and get what you want when you want. In end being kind, respectful, and understanding will get you alot farther than walking in being a tool. Just my 2 cents...I think I feel better now
Stop being cheap, if you want it that bad, pay for it!

 

[xyion1]

I haven't read everyone responses, just skimmed the first couple but here is what I think...1. You signed the freaking contract, you know from Apples track record that they will most likely release a iPhone every summer. 2. You are the type of customer that everyone who works in retail/customer service hates. I work in that field, at a popular coffee chain and there are at times some very difficult customers. If someone acts like you did, they aren't getting SH*T. Why would I budge and let you win, and let you have the satisfaction of thinking your tuff sh*t and get what you want when you want. In end being kind, respectful, and understanding will get you alot farther than walking in being a tool. Just my 2 cents...I think I feel better now
Stop being cheap, if you want it that bad, pay for it!

No matter WHAT phone you get, if you are paying >$99/month you are eligible for yearly upgrades. What makes the iPhone special is that they allowed people who would be eligible in the next 11 weeks (until August 31, 2009) to become eligible on June 19th. That's it.

If you were eligible on July 14th, 2009 (1 year in), AT&T allowed you to purchase a 3Gs on June 19th for the full subsidy. Why? So they can say they sold 1 million phones opening weekend. Instead of 1 million phones from June 19th until August 31st.

 

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

I haven't read everyone responses, just skimmed the first couple but here is what I think...1. You signed the freaking contract, you know from Apples track record that t

Stop thinking out loud then. Your point, while valid, has been re-hashed 1,000 times and is off-topic.

 

[marksman]

I like how you refer to this as a debacle.

The only debacle is that adults are entering into contracts without a clue as to what they were doing.

I honestly had some sympathy to people who got into ARMS and had the mortgage rates jump through the ceiling due to unscrupulous lenders and such. However, now I realize that I should not have any sympathy, as a percentage of the population is dumb and/or ignorant and refuse to take responsibility for the adult things they do and want to blame someone else.

 

[-aggie-]

 

[kkachurak]

When someone bad-mouths a service to me and tells me not to sign up, I ALWAYS ask why. Every single time. This means the person bad-mouthing the service needs to tell me why not to sign up. And, if they told me your story, I would laugh in their face and probably kick them in the shins. Seriously. Are you going to lie to your friends and family when they ask why they shouldn't sign up for AT&T? WHAT are you going to bad-mouth them about even? The fact that you didn't qualify and couldn't upgrade?

You make no sense.

And I think that's commendable. My point is, not everyone is like you. And many more individuals have opinions that (in others opinions) are more absurd than mine, currently.

My opinion is that a carrier with the Jesus Phone shouldn't create sudden and magical exceptions to the rule and exclude other users that offer to compensate to meet the requirements of the rule. I'm not whining. I just don't think it's right. I bought the phone and paid $400 smacks anyway.

I'll tell people AT&T poorly manages their killer devices and they should wait and see what killer devices come out on another networks and see if they're handled more appropriately.

Hospitality Mangement degree? it doesn't make a difference if you have a phD in rocket science and do pro bono work on the side. You think ATT should bend backwards for you cause you've been a loyal customer? They don't owe you anything so stop acting like like they SHOULD do you a favor. Don't like it? you can print a big sign in Times Square telling everyone to leave ATT. Maybe the fact that no one on here seems to agree with your logic or the lack of should tell you that its pretty flawed to begin with. It seems like you're a little kid throwing a tantrum cause he can't get what he wants in the toy store. I suggest you leave ATT so the customer service can focuse on helping those that really do need help.

And btw, I left ATT cause I didn't like their high prices. Don't like it? I suggest you do the same instead of moaning and groaning looking for sympathy which you clearly are not getting any.

I don't think you're paying attention. Many posters are pointing out that I should be more aware of financial accounting practices, and therefore should be more understanding of why I can't do what I suggested.

And yet, I retain an understanding of what they're saying. I merely pointed out my education to show that. I don't think I "have a better understanding" than the other guy and therefore think I'm right.

 

[starstudded]

Kkachurak, your logic is most definitely flawed. If what you are saying is true then why would AT&T even have the policy that you can get the better price if you spent $99 or more per month? If they allowed you to pay the difference and made you eligible for the upgrade, why would they even have this policy? You are telling me that then everyone can just pay the differences and make themselves eligible? I think you should look up the definition of "policy" and "contract" and rethink yourself over.

 

[pavvento]

And I think that's commendable. My point is, not everyone is like you. And many more individuals have opinions that (in others opinions) are more absurd than mine, currently.

My opinion is that a carrier with the Jesus Phone shouldn't create sudden and magical exceptions to the rule and exclude other users that offer to compensate to meet the requirements of the rule. I'm not whining. I just don't think it's right. I bought the phone and paid $400 smacks anyway.

I'll tell people AT&T poorly manages their killer devices and they should wait and see what killer devices come out on another networks and see if they're handled more appropriately.

I know their exception did not help you, but isn't it a good thing that some folks were able to be given a generous offer? Sure it might make some people unhappy that they are not in that group, but it doesn't change your situation whether they receive that offer or not, so why not let them enjoy it?

 

[marksman]

AT&T didn't have the policy in place a year ago. It's funny how they actually are helping their customers by giving people who wouldn't normally qualify for an upgrade a reduced price, and yet it is still seen as a bad thing.

This is what I don't understand.

When the OP signed the contract and bought the 3G phone last year, what on earth would have made him think he would be eligible for the full subsidized price in 12 months? Since he knew up front that was the case and still did the deal, it must have meant he was okay with it. Why does he get mad at it now when 12 months ago it was perfectly fine. Seems like a very immature attitude.