my mbp 40f cooler!

[Michael Hyatt]

Update: Once I unplugged from my Cinema display, the temperature started coming down. Now, running on batteries, it is as follows:

CPU Core 1: 163.4F
CPU Core 2: 161.6F
Smart Disk: 96.8F

Hardward Monitor still does not show the fans running; however, I can hear them.

The best part is that my MacBook Pro is no longer hot. It is barely warm to the touch, which is a HUGE improvement. I swear, I could have fried an egg on it before! Thanks.

 

[Michael Hyatt]

Yes, I am running 10.4.8. I am running a MacBook Pro with 2 GB of Ram.

 

[freshS0LE]

quick question. not sure if i missed whether it's been answered
or not. but...does doing this void the warranty of your computer?

thanks in advance.

 

[tokyovigilante]

PPC observations and request for collaboration

I've spent the last wee while playing round with this on my iBook G4, as I've always wished it would run a few degrees cooler.

A few things - the PPC Macs don't have a System Management Controller (SMC) so the smc utility won't work. The reason it won't run at all is that it appears to be built Intel-only. I've built it on PPC and it complains about a missing SMC, funnily-enough .

Having eliminated that option I went back to the AppleFan and AppleBlower kexts. Reviewing them and the OpenDarwin sources, I've come up with the basic process for fan control on Mac OS -

1. The kernel communicates with the hardware (CPU) thermal sensors via AppleCPUThermo.kext.

2. The kernel looks up this temperature against the AppleFan.kext speed table. As Rokem found, this is indeed a range of temperatures multiplied by 256, which increase the fan speed by increasing the voltage incrementally (0.5v steps?) until the highest set temperature is reached, at which time the fan runs at maximum.

3. The kernel sets a new fan speed based on the lookup table.

4. The fan runs until the CPU temperature reaches the hysteresis-temp defined in AppleFan.kext, at which time the fan shuts down.

The default temperature range is 57-62 degrees celcius, and the hysteresis temp is 55, ie the fan comes on at increasing speeds up to 62 degrees, then cools the system to 55 and shuts off.

With this in mind I came up with a modified AppleFan.kext Info.plist with a range of 45-50, and a hysteresis temp of 42. However on regenerating the extension cache and rebooting, I found the same thing as Rokem, namely that these lower values had no effect, and that the fan runs the same as before.

Re-examining the AppleFan source, I found that the default values are hardcoded into the extension, and that it will use these if it cannot find an external source.

My next step would be to rebuild AppleFan.kext with new values encoded, but I'd be interested to know what other peoples experiences have been on PPC, as I won't have a chance to do this for a wee while.

 

[Jarland]

Update: Once I unplugged from my Cinema display, the temperature started coming down. Now, running on batteries, it is as follows:

CPU Core 1: 163.4F
CPU Core 2: 161.6F
Smart Disk: 96.8F

Hardward Monitor still does not show the fans running; however, I can hear them.

The best part is that my MacBook Pro is no longer hot. It is barely warm to the touch, which is a HUGE improvement. I swear, I could have fried an egg on it before! Thanks.

What was your average temperature before trying these scripts? Because something is definitely wrong here. If I set my MBP on a poor surface for cooling, and run it idle without any modifications to the fan settings, I run idle from 118F-126F.

 

[Michael Hyatt]

Jarland,

Unfortunately, I don't have the average temperature. All I can tell you is that after an hour or so of use, I could barely hold my hands on the computer. It now seems to be much cooler. It is no warmer than my wife's PowerBook. However, I still can't get Hardware Monitor to show that the fans are running (though I can hear them).

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Jarland]

Jarland,

Unfortunately, I don't have the average temperature. All I can tell you is that after an hour or so of use, I could barely hold my hands on the computer. It now seems to be much cooler. It is no warmer than my wife's PowerBook. However, I still can't get Hardware Monitor to show that the fans are running (though I can hear them).

Thanks,

Mike

I suppose if you're ok with the temperature it's not the worst thing in the world. But keep a close watch for the things that some people have reported having over the heat issue (excessive case warping, battery warping, etc.). Also, you may want to check out this link: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=680067&tstart=0
It describes a way to change the minimum fan speed instead of locking the speed the way these scripts do. That way the OS will still control the fan, but you can stop it from ever falling below a certain point (which, with your temperatures, I would personally say set at 3000rpm for the lowest).

 

[Michael Hyatt]

It makes me wonder if my sensors are screwed up. The temperature keeps dropping on my hard disk. It's now down to 93.2F. But the processors are staying the same. The case doesn't even feel warm now. (Of course, I'm not really doing anything significant on my computer right now either.)

I also took a look at MiniStat. It shows the same temperatures as Hardware Monitor. It also indicates no fan activity, but, again, I can still hear them running.

Weird.

 

[Jarland]

It makes me wonder if my sensors are screwed up. The temperature keeps dropping on my hard disk. It's now down to 93.2F. But the processors are staying the same. The case doesn't even feel warm now. (Of course, I'm not really doing anything significant on my computer right now either.)

I also took a look at MiniStat. It shows the same temperatures as Hardware Monitor. It also indicates no fan activity, but, again, I can still hear them running.

Weird.

Could be. Well I'll tell you what mine does & maybe it can help you figure out. My laptop is bearable until it reaches about 160F+. After that it just gets too hot to have on my lap.

 

[tvkas]

powerbook g4 error message

I did this last night to my powerbook G4 15" 1Ghz. it worked at first, fans ran and I had no problems. I had to restart the computer several times while playing around and did not have any problems.

This afternoon I started my computer when I got to work and didn't have a problem. but then I had some software updates to download, which I did. When my computer restarted I got an error message when the desktop was loading. It said that the extension AppleFan.kext was not properly installed and could not be loaded.

the fans are still running and everything seems O.K. but I just get this error message now. I replaced my edited AppleFan.kext with the original (which I did keep) but still get the same error message.

Any thoughts??????

 

[cscade]

For me, any attempt to write any key value with the smc v0.01 tool results in this error message;

Error: SMCWriteKey() = e00002c1

Therefore I can't fiddle with this myself to make changes. Depressing, as I have a 15" MBP that I have already reapplied thermal compound on, and it still runs very hot (62c at idle, 82c full load, and that's suspended on an iCurve stand!).

Suggestions?

 

[casperghst42]

sudo ./smc .....

Regards/Casper

For me, any attempt to write any key value with the smc v0.01 tool results in this error message;

Error: SMCWriteKey() = e00002c1

Therefore I can't fiddle with this myself to make changes. Depressing, as I have a 15" MBP that I have already reapplied thermal compound on, and it still runs very hot (62c at idle, 82c full load, and that's suspended on an iCurve stand!).

Suggestions?

 

[atticus1178]

But my fan (the one on the right) is going bad.

It makes sort of a grinding noise when running, like there is a cord hitting the blades or something.

I need to take it to apple, but I can't be without my computer for a long period of time.

AWESOME!

Now my fan has officially gone out completely!

No spinning, no air flow....(I can tell by revving them up to 4000 RPM and I feel no air coming out of the right side, plus there is no more grinding noise) also, Hardware Monitor reports 0 RPM for Fan 2, and Fan 1 is reporting the correct numbers....

So.....what do I need to do? Can I continue running it without the second fan, and just leave the good fan running at 4000 RPM all the time? Or do I need to call AppleCare immediately?

 

[Jarland]

AWESOME!

Now my fan has officially gone out completely!

No spinning, no air flow....(I can tell by revving them up to 4000 RPM and I feel no air coming out of the right side, plus there is no more grinding noise) also, Hardware Monitor reports 0 RPM for Fan 2, and Fan 1 is reporting the correct numbers....

So.....what do I need to do? Can I continue running it without the second fan, and just leave the good fan running at 4000 RPM all the time? Or do I need to call AppleCare immediately?

I would seriously get that thing replaced asap.

 

[odobo]

AWESOME!

Now my fan has officially gone out completely!

No spinning, no air flow....(I can tell by revving them up to 4000 RPM and I feel no air coming out of the right side, plus there is no more grinding noise) also, Hardware Monitor reports 0 RPM for Fan 2, and Fan 1 is reporting the correct numbers....

So.....what do I need to do? Can I continue running it without the second fan, and just leave the good fan running at 4000 RPM all the time? Or do I need to call AppleCare immediately?

well you can still use your MBP if you can stand the heat... then wait until the CPU or other components die out becoz of the extensive heat inside and you can ask for a replacement of the whole MBP (or at least the cpu or the motherboard)

 

[jhande]

To add a datapoint: I've got a black MacBook, fully spec'ed, week 39, all Software Updates installed, and the profile (measured with CoreDuoTemp) is 20C when just surfing around, ramping up to 56-62C when maxing out both processors (both running at 2 GHz). Fans come on discretely when maxing out, but nothing obtrusive - to be fair I've got a couple of noisy servers in the room, so I wouldn't really notice the fans anyway.

The idling speed is actually pretty close to ambient, since I keep my office at 18-22C (depending on the sun).

Subjectively, the machine is warm above keys 2,3,4, but never so warm it burns my lap.

All in all, a 'cool' machine

 

[cscade]

sudo ./smc .....

Regards/Casper

Duuuuuuuh. Thanks, shows my lack of *nix background.

On another note, my right fan is on it's way out. I have a week 13 15" MBP, and it just started making nasty noises this morning. Now that I can control the fan speed independently I can tell for sure that it's the right one. In fact, I'm pretty sure I could kill it completely if I asked it to do much over 2k rpm.

Does apple care always nuke your system when you send it back? It'd be rough to restore both my OSX and Bootcamp partitions to their current state after a warranty repair, but it needs done because my FW port is bad too.

 

[cscade]

Also a quick note, with both fans running at 4k rpm for 10 minutes, machine at idle, the machine never got cooler than 44c (which is 22c above ambient). Normally with the fans on auto I get 55-65c idle.

That sucks.

 

[digitalbit]

can't get it to work

I've download the smc 0.01 and follow the README steps ... with the command line #> ./smc -f works fine! it gives me the readings from the RPMs , max,min, auto etc ... But when i move to the next step:
#> /smc -k "FS! " -w 0003
it gives me this error ... and I cannot get it work !
Error: SMCWriteKey() = e00002c1

or this:
#> ./smc -k F0Tg -w 36b0
Error: SMCWriteKey() = e00002c1



As anyone had the same problem ??!

Using a Macbook pro 15" with serial W86112XXXXX

need some help please

 

[cscade]

I've download the smc 0.01 and follow the README steps ... with the command line #> ./smc -f works fine! it gives me the readings from the RPMs , max,min, auto etc ... But when i move to the next step:
#> /smc -k "FS! " -w 0003
it gives me this error ... and I cannot get it work !
Error: SMCWriteKey() = e00002c1

or this:
#> ./smc -k F0Tg -w 36b0
Error: SMCWriteKey() = e00002c1



As anyone had the same problem ??!

Using a Macbook pro 15" with serial W86112XXXXX

need some help please

All you have to do is read a few posts above... re. sudo ./smc ...

 

[MattBlonski]

i did everything as described, however, my MBP is still 60c and warmer...help?

 

[Jarland]

i did everything as described, however, my MBP is still 60c and warmer...help?

Let me get you to clarify if you have tried these steps. These have been posted here, but differ from the main theory of this topic.
Open the terminal, navigate to the directory that you have the smc program in (assuming you have downloaded it), and then type these commands:
sudo ./smc -k F0Mn -w 2ee0
sudo ./smc -k F1Mn -w 2ee0

This, instead of setting the fan at a defined speed, increases the minimum fan speed while still allowing the system to use the automatic mode. But be aware that if you disconnect your laptop from it's power adapter, or put it to sleep, your fan may shut off. That doesn't happen to everyone, but it has happened to me & a few others...so keep an eye on it.

 

[Jarland]

We're on the right track, but these workarounds are not quite at acceptable levels to just throw out to people who aren't pretty knowledgable about their computers. These are my complaints with both these scripts, and the trick found here: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=680067&tstart=0

1. Disconnect from power adapter & begin to run on battery
Apparently this changes more than just the basic power settings. When I do this, my fan locks at a very low level, and my system will reach 200F in a few minutes.

2. Put to sleep, wake up, fan is either low or off.

These problems seem to vary a bit, but everyone experiences at least one of those two. We're on the right track, but we need to pool our efforts & attempt to create a smart software that watches the fan speed & temperature at all times & adjusts by it's own preset. This software needs to be monitoring constantly so that at no point will the fan shut off. We're almost there! Any programmers in the audience?

 

[n8236]

Let me get you to clarify if you have tried these steps. These have been posted here, but differ from the main theory of this topic.
Open the terminal, navigate to the directory that you have the smc program in (assuming you have downloaded it), and then type these commands:
sudo ./smc -k F0Mn -w 2ee0
sudo ./smc -k F1Mn -w 2ee0

This, instead of setting the fan at a defined speed, increases the minimum fan speed while still allowing the system to use the automatic mode. But be aware that if you disconnect your laptop from it's power adapter, or put it to sleep, your fan may shut off. That doesn't happen to everyone, but it has happened to me & a few others...so keep an eye on it.

Definitely on the right track, thank u for the minimum fan speed bump w/ auto adjust to higher speeds. It seems as though the risk associated w/ the fan suddenly at low speeds or off is quite risky.

 

[merc669]

With all this email documentation from both camps, has anybody tried sending this and the other link to "Apple" for their review and maybe get them on the stick to correct or put out a System Preference for this issue?

Bill.....