Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Here is a very informative article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Windows_Vista

Some useful quotes:

"According to Microsoft, "nearly all PCs on the market today will run Windows Vista" and most PCs sold after 2005 are capable of running Vista." (Oh yeah, what about the claims that any 2001 PC will run it??!!)

"In addition, many Vista early adopters faced hardware incompatibility problems due to drivers not yet being available for Vista."

"Windows Vista executes typical applications more slowly than Windows XP, even with the same hardware configuration."

"Vista, both with and without SP1, performed notably slower than XP with SP3 in the test, taking over 80 seconds to complete the test, compared to the beta SP3-enhanced XP's 35 seconds. ”
Moreover, it has been suggested that the real upgrade to Windows Vista is Windows XP SP3 because XP SP3 is significantly faster than Vista[85] by all comparisons."

"According to industry-sources, Windows XP is still outselling Windows Vista, especially by business-sales. "

Speaks for itself!

Did you read your link? All of the complaints are pre-SP1. A good majority are from before the OS went RTM.

Many of the complaints have even been updated to show that the issue has either been resolved, performance is now on par with XP or, in some instances, even better than XP!

Your link just proves the fact that people believe what they are fed and choose to put that over their own experience and real peoples experience.

Your link proves that the the average Apple fan, you, has not used Vista and has absolutely no experience with Windows in modern times and does not know how things have changed.

Both Windows and Mac OS have changed drastically in the last 10 years. Sadly though, OS X still does not have technologies that Windows did 10 years ago.
 
Did you read your link? All of the complaints are pre-SP1. A good majority are from before the OS went RTM.

Many of the complaints have even been updated to show that the issue has either been resolved, performance is now on par with XP or, in some instances, even better than XP!

Your link just proves the fact that people believe what they are fed and choose to put that over their own experience and real peoples experience.

Your link proves that the the average Apple fan, you, has not used Vista and has absolutely no experience with Windows in modern times and does not know how things have changed.

Both Windows and Mac OS have changed drastically in the last 10 years. Sadly though, OS X still does not have technologies that Windows did 10 years ago.

Haven't really posted here much, but I started visiting when I started considering a Macbook. I have read many of your posts concerning vista and os x. thanks to you (really, not sarcastically) I decided on getting a Vista PC (maybe the HP dv2910), because its more specs for my $, and I can deal with vista. You seem to be one of the more realistic posters on here, who see both sides of the story (Mac v PC) and tell whats good for both sides. Thanks
 
Both Windows and Mac OS have changed drastically in the last 10 years. Sadly though, OS X still does not have technologies that Windows did 10 years ago.

Just out of curiousity, what are these technologies that you speak of?
 
Haven't really posted here much, but I started visiting when I started considering a Macbook. I have read many of your posts concerning vista and os x. thanks to you (really, not sarcastically) I decided on getting a Vista PC (maybe the HP dv2910), because its more specs for my $, and I can deal with vista. You seem to be one of the more realistic posters on here, who see both sides of the story (Mac v PC) and tell whats good for both sides. Thanks

Those specs on a Mac would outperform the laptop. Technologies in Vista are not lightyears ahead by any means. More like..years behind. Plus all that ancient code its built on...
 
You seem to be one of the more realistic posters on here, who see both sides of the story (Mac v PC) and tell whats good for both sides. Thanks

Maybe I missed it... or simply forgotten it since it's been 10 years since this topic started.

But I haven't seen mosx tell both sides of the story really, just the negative of OS X and the positive of Windows. No positives of OS X and negatives of Windows.
 
You know what's funny? My parents claim to loathe Apple up and down the block, but when I took my used Powerbook out of the box yesterday and they asked me how old it was they were floored.

"Two years old" They swore it was new, it was funny.
 
Haven't really posted here much, but I started visiting when I started considering a Macbook. I have read many of your posts concerning vista and os x. thanks to you (really, not sarcastically) I decided on getting a Vista PC (maybe the HP dv2910), because its more specs for my $, and I can deal with vista. You seem to be one of the more realistic posters on here, who see both sides of the story (Mac v PC) and tell whats good for both sides. Thanks

Thank you ;)

I just have real world experience with both platforms. I've seen the truly ugly sides of both, as well as the best of both. And honestly (I know I'll get ripped for this), Windows has more positive than OS X does.

OS X does have a faster boot time, and software is usually easier to install. But thats offset by the fact that there really isn't much software available, theres very little freeware compared to Windows (everyone wants at least $10 it seems like, and in the year and a half I've been using OS X, I've seen far too many "free" apps turn paid). Realistically speaking, you'll most likely never use the bundled iLife apps. Well, you'll use iTunes (because you have to, no other good music software for OS X) and iPhoto (because it actually is good). But you'll never use Garageband, iMovie, iDVD, or iWeb.

Picassa, Windows Photo Gallery (and Live Photo Gallery), HP Photosmart Essentials, and countless others all do what iPhoto does, just as nice. You have many many choices for music management and playing software on Windows, as well as countless more stores and even subscription options.

Windows also takes advantage of the hardware capabilities. Sound hardware actually processes sound. Video hardware actually processes video. Not all of that is done by the CPU wasting cycles and driving up system heat.

Are you thinking of getting that HP? I looked up the specs. For $800 and less, its a nice system. You get a bigger screen than the MacBook, DVD writer, 3GB of RAM, 250GB HDD, ExpressCard, all that good stuff. If you want a 15.4" screen and don't mind AMD (since they are nearly as fast as the Core 2 Duo, just not quite as fast), you can head over to hp.com and for $803 you can get Vista Home Premium 64-bit, 2GHz Turion Ultra, 2GB of RAM, 160GB HDD, DVD writer, 15.4" 1680x1050 screen, Radeon 3450 GPU, and the high capacity (but not sticking out) battery.

Just out of curiousity, what are these technologies that you speak of?

Well, good 3D graphics support for one. Core Image is good for little GUI effects and application animation. But its no good for gaming. Apple's OpenGL support is extremely lacking and is definitely the cause for OpenGL native games running poorly on OS X compared to their Windows counterpart.

Theres also the whole lack of system wide hardware acceleration for video playback. In Windows (especially Vista), if your GPU has video capabilities (like bitstream decoding, deblocking to clean up compression artifacting, hardware de-interlacing), Windows and all compatible software will hand all of those tasks off to the GPU. This is why DVD playback under Windows generally only eats up around 2% of a single core on a Core 2 Duo, while DVD playback under OS X with any GPU eats up 20%+ of a single core. Or why blu-ray playback is possible on a low-end dual-core processor with current nVidia or ATI integrated graphics (or any of their dedicated GPUs from the last few years) while 720p video on OS X can eat up as much as 60% of a single core. Same video on Windows will eat up about 5% CPU time. Thats why you can go over to HP right now and, for $1,002.99 you can get a 2GHz Turion X2, 2GB of RAM, 160GB HDD, blu-ray drive, Radeon HD 3450, 1680x1050 15.4" screen. It will play blu-ray movies on the built-in screen or on any HDCP certified HDMI/DVI external monitor.

Those specs on a Mac would outperform the laptop. Technologies in Vista are not lightyears ahead by any means. More like..years behind. Plus all that ancient code its built on...

The processor on a MacBook would be faster than the processor in the dv2910. But you get more RAM and HDD space in the dv2910, as well as a DVD writer and a bigger screen than the MacBook for $300 less than the entry level model. You also get Vista, which means the X3100 will take over most of the work for playing DVDs, the sound processor will take the load off of the CPU for playing music, etc. I mean, honestly, playing DVDs takes up so much CPU time in OS X compared to Vista combined with even the X3100 that he or she will have more free CPU cycles while playing DVDs than the current 2.4GHz MacBook would. Why? Thanks to those technologies that are light years "ahead" ;) "DXVA", something OS X is in desparate need of.

Oh and if you want to talk about "ancient code", let's talk about Mac OS X for a minute. OS X is a descendant of Nextstep. Both of which are built off of the Mach Kernel, which was developed from 1985 to 1994. BSD was originally started in 1977 which is based off of UNIX, which was started in 1969. Nextstep was first previewed in 1986.

Windows Vista is basically a code rewrite of Windows 2003. Both of which are based off of Windows NT, which started development in 1989. It has absolutely nothing to do with DOS, Windows 3.1, etc. It was fully 32-bit out of the box, DOS compatibility was achieved through virtualization. It was an entirely new product built from the ground up based on nothing before it.

So, technically, OS X is based off of "ancient" code dating 20 years (39 years old this year!) older than the start of development of the OS that would Vista would eventually be based off of ;)
 
Those specs on a Mac would outperform the laptop. Technologies in Vista are not lightyears ahead by any means. More like..years behind. Plus all that ancient code its built on...

im sure if a macbook came with these specs it might outperform the pc, but I'd rather have the pc right now that out specs the mac for a much cheaper price (dont even thinking about the "Justifying Apple's prices" argument, cause i personally feel its irrelevant
 
Thank you ;)

I just have real world experience with both platforms. I've seen the truly ugly sides of both, as well as the best of both. And honestly (I know I'll get ripped for this), Windows has more positive than OS X does.

OS X does have a faster boot time, and software is usually easier to install. But thats offset by the fact that there really isn't much software available, theres very little freeware compared to Windows (everyone wants at least $10 it seems like, and in the year and a half I've been using OS X, I've seen far too many "free" apps turn paid). Realistically speaking, you'll most likely never use the bundled iLife apps. Well, you'll use iTunes (because you have to, no other good music software for OS X) and iPhoto (because it actually is good). But you'll never use Garageband, iMovie, iDVD, or iWeb.

Picassa, Windows Photo Gallery (and Live Photo Gallery), HP Photosmart Essentials, and countless others all do what iPhoto does, just as nice. You have many many choices for music management and playing software on Windows, as well as countless more stores and even subscription options.

Windows also takes advantage of the hardware capabilities. Sound hardware actually processes sound. Video hardware actually processes video. Not all of that is done by the CPU wasting cycles and driving up system heat.

Are you thinking of getting that HP? I looked up the specs. For $800 and less, its a nice system. You get a bigger screen than the MacBook, DVD writer, 3GB of RAM, 250GB HDD, ExpressCard, all that good stuff. If you want a 15.4" screen and don't mind AMD (since they are nearly as fast as the Core 2 Duo, just not quite as fast), you can head over to hp.com and for $803 you can get Vista Home Premium 64-bit, 2GHz Turion Ultra, 2GB of RAM, 160GB HDD, DVD writer, 15.4" 1680x1050 screen, Radeon 3450 GPU, and the high capacity (but not sticking out) battery.



Well, good 3D graphics support for one. Core Image is good for little GUI effects and application animation. But its no good for gaming. Apple's OpenGL support is extremely lacking and is definitely the cause for OpenGL native games running poorly on OS X compared to their Windows counterpart.

Theres also the whole lack of system wide hardware acceleration for video playback. In Windows (especially Vista), if your GPU has video capabilities (like bitstream decoding, deblocking to clean up compression artifacting, hardware de-interlacing), Windows and all compatible software will hand all of those tasks off to the GPU. This is why DVD playback under Windows generally only eats up around 2% of a single core on a Core 2 Duo, while DVD playback under OS X with any GPU eats up 20%+ of a single core. Or why blu-ray playback is possible on a low-end dual-core processor with current nVidia or ATI integrated graphics (or any of their dedicated GPUs from the last few years) while 720p video on OS X can eat up as much as 60% of a single core. Same video on Windows will eat up about 5% CPU time. Thats why you can go over to HP right now and, for $1,002.99 you can get a 2GHz Turion X2, 2GB of RAM, 160GB HDD, blu-ray drive, Radeon HD 3450, 1680x1050 15.4" screen. It will play blu-ray movies on the built-in screen or on any HDCP certified HDMI/DVI external monitor.



The processor on a MacBook would be faster than the processor in the dv2910. But you get more RAM and HDD space in the dv2910, as well as a DVD writer and a bigger screen than the MacBook for $300 less than the entry level model. You also get Vista, which means the X3100 will take over most of the work for playing DVDs, the sound processor will take the load off of the CPU for playing music, etc. I mean, honestly, playing DVDs takes up so much CPU time in OS X compared to Vista combined with even the X3100 that he or she will have more free CPU cycles while playing DVDs than the current 2.4GHz MacBook would. Why? Thanks to those technologies that are light years "ahead" ;) "DXVA", something OS X is in desparate need of.

Oh and if you want to talk about "ancient code", let's talk about Mac OS X for a minute. OS X is a descendant of Nextstep. Both of which are built off of the Mach Kernel, which was developed from 1985 to 1994. BSD was originally started in 1977 which is based off of UNIX, which was started in 1969. Nextstep was first previewed in 1986.

Windows Vista is basically a code rewrite of Windows 2003. Both of which are based off of Windows NT, which started development in 1989. It has absolutely nothing to do with DOS, Windows 3.1, etc. It was fully 32-bit out of the box, DOS compatibility was achieved through virtualization. It was an entirely new product built from the ground up based on nothing before it.

So, technically, OS X is based off of "ancient" code dating 20 years (39 years old this year!) older than the start of development of the OS that would Vista would eventually be based off of ;)

Ok, so you said you have real time experience with both platforms [Windows v Mac]. Okay, so do I, I've just kept my judgement as the kid already made up his mind and having a Mac is not a bad thing. Bad thing is getting something you don't want.

Background: I own a HP laptop dv1660se that runs XP [1.66 Ghz Core 2 Duo, 2GB Ram, 80HDD, Integrated graphics], a Desktop running Vista [2.8Ghz Pentium 4 HT, 1.5GB Ram, 80 HDD, 256 MB nVidia GT 6600 OC] and MacBook [Current Gen, base configuration for Black MacBook]. They all run smoothly even my Desktop which is from 2003 [surprised it runs Vista? Don't be I built that machine myself back in 2003].

Ok back to topic. Ah yes, Win v Mac.

DVD Playback
You state over and over that Vista can better play DVDs? Well, I'm sorry to disprove you, but my personal experience with Macs has been equally pared with Vista or for that matter XP. True, XP has performed much better running a DVD, but XP crashed on me 3 times during my testing before responding to you. Bear in mind I closed on all 3 all useless background processes to give better results. Mac did perform a but slower, but I got stability which I personally like. Vista performed great, I won't lie, but too many programs popped up to ask me to use them. I hate to have to pick which program to choose when I already had a default (Windows Media). That is less appealing to me.

You might ask "What about Blu-ray?" My answer is I personally don't need a Blu-ray device as I use iTunes download service. It is more convenient for me as I travel a lot between college, my home country and within the US. However, please note this is for me I am speaking off. Your needs may be different than mine. Remember, I'm just comparing my experience with both platforms to yours.

3D Graphics
I have found that my laptop blows at playing graphic demanding games since it lacks a graphics card. I further point out that the black MacBook also lacks such piece of hardware. My desktop on the other hand has killer game speeds. However, lets focus on the point here.

Comparing XP and Mac without a graphics unit, my Mac runs faster [booting, run-time and graphic handling] my games. On my HP, graphics tend to be very transparent and more choppy. Mac on the other hand runs pretty fine considering the heavy payload and less choppy graphics. My desktop running Vista on the other hands blows both laptops away, and no reason why it shouldn't. Has a graphics card with 256 MB. Graphic quality is much much better. However, when I compare my Mac to my Vista machine, Mac doesn't stay behind on the job.

Remembering this is a kid who needs a laptop, I on the go, won't mind crappy graphics in my games. However I do expect much from my desktop. Both deliver what they are meant too. There is no reason to criticize Mac for poor graphics since my personal expirience has been very good and suprising.

OpenCL may not be to your expectations, but it is to mine and has far exceeded. Here it goes the question of: Does the OP really need xxxx?

Software
It is ignorant to say "Macs have a software deficiency". True, Mac don't have much freeware, but hey, nothing in the world is free. Even your hotmail e-mail (which I also have) is paid for. You don't pay for it, but the ads do.

Let me elaborate on something I have come to realize. Windows does have more programs that are free or paid. However, I have come to see great freeware programs on Windows become paid and then get crappy. Also, look at Trial software, true it is free, but it cripples down the whole thing. Companies trying to entice you to buy it.

On the Mac side, Apple hosts all the programs Mac has (which are alot to the contrary what people say) and has reviews in its own website from other people. You can download a free version to play with (which sometimes is not crippled) and also choose to buy it. I don't see Microsoft run a system like that for anyone except for Microsoft products and services.

What do I make out of all this? Well, Apple checks applications to provide stability for the end user. Microsoft does not, it only cares for big companies. For me, stability is a must in a system. My desktop and HP laptop crash constantly from running programs from 3rd parties. I go to Microsoft for support to find out there is no support. Let me make this clear for you also before you bash me here. The 3rd party apps for Windows are mainstream that everyone uses. Example, Mikogo, an app for looking at a friend's desktop and even use remote control. Crashes many times if I start it up wrongly.

I won't say my Mac doesn't freeze up on an app. But it by far more stable. I have less fear to run something on it. An example of Mikogo on Mac is iChat. It has remote control while chatting with your partner. That is far more stable than Mikogo. Bear in mind Mikogo is very well developed if you can keep it from crashing. Seems I have run off topic. Back to software. Name one good app in Windows that is free and lacks a paid counterpart. There is rarely one. Mikogo has a paid counter part (not same company though) called Go-to-my-PC.

Of coarse Windows has more programs, there are more companies developing something Windows lacks. Mac on the other hand already has many programs that must be installed on to Windows.

I mention also Time Machine. Great app built in Mac. Windows does have something like it, but its crap. You can buy a software like Time Machine from Western Digital when you get an external HDD. Its called Memeo Back-up. It runs great and is easy to install; however, it is a pain to use sometimes and consumes lots of CPU cycles. Time machine on the other hand runs great. However, this are my personal experiences with the three machines I own

Ancient Coding
It is true Mac OS X is built on NEXTstep. However, to date, even though it is based on ancient UNIX, BSD and Next software background, Mac OS X, runs very but very stable and delivers. At least it has delivered for me, again personal experience varies from person to person.

Windows XP is based on NT like you said 1989. However, Vista had so many glitches when it came out, it seemed it was coded in a hurry. Why? Because they were using mix-up of stuff. XP, 2003 and NT. Trying to get a great GUI (which it is, has great GUI) and working OS together. It is not a easy task, but Microsoft released it too soon. Here is where decisions come to place.

No OS (be that Mac or Win) can be judged on how old its code is. It the respective companies choices when to deliver it. Apple takes its time to release something. Microsoft seems to run into things. Take Bill Gates interview when presenting Windows 98. He got a BSOD while showing the entire US how great is was. The consequence, Microsoft had to rethink. I'm not gonna say Mac is inmune to such things (I have had the spinning beach ball). However, Apple tends to be more careful on stuff and that's why that ancient code you are talking of doesn't show or have much of an impact on things.

If Vista would have been released with today's fixes, it would be praised and liked. Also people would never go and say idiotic stuff like "Its based on ancient stuff" and critics would have not bashed Microsoft so much.

Let me repeat just so I make sure I didn't throw you off my view point. Vista was released to fast and thus problems. How old is the coding has nothing to do with it.

[EDIT]

Price Tag
I have invested on 2 machines. My 2003 Desktop originally came with only 512MB Ram and Integrated graphics. I bought the parts seperate and built the frigging machine. FTW!! Updated it 2 years ago (before Vista was announced) to 1.5GB Ram and nVidia GeForce 6600 OC with 256MB. Price tag for that $400. That plus $1200 that costed me the parts in 2003. Grand total $1600.00

My HP dv1660se came with only 1GB Ram. I updated it with 2GB Ram for a cost of $80. That plus $1100 that costed me in August 2006. Grand total: $1180.00

MacBook is still with the 2GB Ram it came with, will update when I get paid in Sept. Price Tag: Baseline Black MacBook > apple.com for details ;).

As for price, all machines have proven their value and not let me down. I am proud of all three of them. Specially the one I built. ;)

[/EDIT]

Conclusion
All three of my laptops run fine with the OS. I am still surprised on how my 2003 machine runs Vista smoothly. I praise Vista for that. I read somewhere that they got Leopard running on a 2001, good for you, and as you can see Vista can be run on PCs older than 2005. (Contrary to popular belief)

I did install Vista on my HP, but it Vista crashed far too much and as a personal choice I reverted back to more stable XP. My Macbook runs Vista fine and smooth for my needs. I don't need to run games on it as I have my HP with me; however, I need to add that I have runned games and they run quite good.

If you have noticed that to this line every word in reference to my experience has been in Italics to remind you that all of this that I write comes from my experiences on all three platforms. Yours might be different or your needs might differ from mine.

Just remember, the kid wants a Mac, and he knows what he wants. If he makes a mistake because he is blinded, he will know about it. Mistakes get realized sooner or later. Just don't try to impose your opinion that Macs blows and Windows are better. Cause thats not true. Like I said your experience has showed different, as has mine.

For me, all 3 are great OS's. If I were to pick, I'd keep my MacBook. Reasons are that it has a sentimental value to it and complies the majority of my demands as a user (my other PCs do also comply with them but to a less extent).

So there I said it. Bash me if you want mos x, if you do you would just start a "My experience vs your experience" debate (which will end up in trolling for me and for you also) go ahead. Just remember, every person has a different experience point per machine.

Jav6454
 
Dell????

My husband's company provided him with a Dell 6 months ago. After four months of light, virtually hardly used wear it started going buggy and had to be sent back to his home office. The verdict from the IT department was that the mother board had gone bad. This is after four months of basically just checking email. They replaced it with a new HP/Compaq workhorse looking thing. The comment from the IT guy when asked why the company doesn't use Apple was "We'd all be out of a job." I think that says it all.
 
Okay, so do I, I've just kept my judgement as the kid already made up his mind and having a Mac is not a bad thing. Bad thing is getting something you don't want.

Actually, getting a Mac is a bad thing. You see, hes fallen victim to the hype. He doesn't truly know what he is getting into yet. When he gets his MacBook, he'll love it for the first few weeks. After that he'll realize he could have gotten so much more for so much less and that OS X is considerably overhyped and he'll wish he had gotten a Windows PC instead.

a Desktop running Vista [2.8Ghz Pentium 4 HT, 1.5GB Ram, 80 HDD, 256 MB nVidia GT 6600 OC

If you built it in 2003, you should know that the GeForce 6 series wasn't available until 2004. The GeForce 6600 wasn't available until August of that year actually. It was also the mid-range card of the series.

And if you did build it yourself, as you claim (though your statements suggest otherwise later on in your post), you would know that the Athlon64s were MUCH faster and MUCH cheaper (several hundred dollars) than the Pentium 4s. You could have gone with a faster and cheaper Athlon64 and been able to get a high end GeForce 6 instead of the mid-range card and slower Pentium 4.

You state over and over that Vista can better play DVDs? Well, I'm sorry to disprove you, but my personal experience with Macs has been equally pared with Vista or for that matter XP. True, XP has performed much better running a DVD, but XP crashed on me 3 times during my testing before responding to you. Bear in mind I closed on all 3 all useless background processes to give better results. Mac did perform a but slower, but I got stability which I personally like. Vista performed great, I won't lie, but too many programs popped up to ask me to use them. I hate to have to pick which program to choose when I already had a default (Windows Media). That is less appealing to me.

First, you didn't prove anything with your comment. All you did prove was that you really don't know how to configure a PC, whether it be Windows or OS X. You also completely missed (or ignored) my point.

I bring up DVD playback for several reasons. First, I bring it up because the image quality in DVD Player is awful compared to PowerDVD, WinDVD, Theatertek, and Vista's built-in decoder (with a modern GPU). It looks even worse in Tiger and older versions of Mac OS X.

I bring it up because of CPU use as well. In Mac OS X, DVD playback can eat anywhere between 20-30% of a single core on a Core 2 Duo. Why? Because DVD playback is entirely software based in OS X (plus MacBooks lack dedicated hardware anyway). In Windows Vista and XP, you have DirectX Video Acceleration. You need a modern GPU to be able to take full advantage of it (not all GeForce 6600s had PureVideo, plus those that did did not have any of the features that the 7 series and above have). If you have any modern (from the last 3 years) nVidia or ATI GPU, and any of the semi-recent IGPs from either, you get full bitstream decoding, deblocking, deinterlacing, color correction, etc. etc. This allows DVD playback to be done in a reduced power state, it allows for MUCH MUCH MUCH better image quality, and it allows the CPU to run cooler. As a result, CPU use drops from the 20-30% in OS X down to ~2% in Windows on the same hardware. Even if you don't have a modern GPU, but you have an Intel GPU instead, it has certain hardware features that will take off 10-15% of the CPU load (but OS X does NOT take advantage of this). Honestly, OS X eats up more than twice the CPU time playing DVDs as WinDVD and PowerDVD did on my old Celeron 1.1GHz (and 566MHz before that) and doesn't look half as good as those did while doing it.

I just bring all of this up to point out that WIndows has had this technology since the 1990s. Back in the late 90s, GPUs had support for HWMC. Windows took advantage of it. Then later in the early part of this decade, GPUs had iDCT and HWMC support. Then shortly after they had deblocking, to clean up the compression artifacting. Then they started having HWMC, iDCT, etc. support for MPEG-4 codecs. Then eventually full bitstream decoding (where the GPU does ALL of the video work). Every single improvement was supported by Windows. All while OS X took advantage of nothing and, up until Leopard, did NOT improve the image quality of DVD Player since its introduction way back in OS 8.

The ability to play a DVD "smoothly" has absolutely nothing to do with my point. My points were all about IMAGE QUALITY (most important, and the area where OS X lacks the most), and the technology being used to play said DVD.

You might ask "What about Blu-ray?" My answer is I personally don't need a Blu-ray device as I use iTunes download service. It is more convenient for me as I travel a lot between college, my home country and within the US. However, please note this is for me I am speaking off. Your needs may be different than mine. Remember, I'm just comparing my experience with both platforms to yours.

The great thing about Windows is how many different stores you can choose from. You're not confined to iTunes.

But honestly, iTunes rental service is terrible. The image quality of the video files is flat out bad. And thanks to OS X's lack of hardware support, CPU use goes up and the MacBook gets hot while watching H.264 video. If the MacBook had dedicated graphics AND OS X had system wide hardware acceleration for video, this wouldn't be a problem.

But why do I want to spend $4 to rent a movie that doesn't look as good as the DVD, doesn't SOUND as good as the DVD (I'm a sound nut, VERY important to me), and I only have 24 hours to watch? DVDs cost the same to rent, have larger window to watch, and are of much higher quality. I can also take that rented DVD and play it on my MacBook, HP, DVD player, upscaling DVD player, game consoles, portable DVD player, etc. etc. etc.

On my HP, graphics tend to be very transparent and more choppy.

You've already made it clear that you don't take care of your XP based system. You probably haven't updated the drivers.

Remembering this is a kid who needs a laptop, I on the go, won't mind crappy graphics in my games. However I do expect much from my desktop. Both deliver what they are meant too. There is no reason to criticize Mac for poor graphics since my personal expirience has been very good and suprising.

The MacBook with a DVD writer costs $1400 after taxes. There is absolutely no reason there should be ANY compromise of ANY sort. None. Not when $1400 at HP will get you a 15.4" system with a 1680x1050 screen, blu-ray, high capacity (but not larger) battery, GeForce 9600M GT, etc. If the MacBook with DVD writer was $700, then we could say that its a good value for the money. But for $1400, I expect NO compromise and the best performance possible. The MacBook simply does not deliver.

OpenCL may not be to your expectations, but it is to mine and has far exceeded. Here it goes the question of: Does the OP really need xxxx?

OpenCL will be in Snow Leopard. OpenGL is what you are looking for.

The OP needs to get the best for his money, and a MacBook simply does not offer that.

Even your hotmail e-mail (which I also have) is paid for. You don't pay for it, but the ads do.

I use gmail with IMAP to my iPhone, Mail (OS X), and Windows Mail ;)

However, I have come to see great freeware programs on Windows become paid and then get crappy.

Examples?

Also, look at Trial software, true it is free, but it cripples down the whole thing. Companies trying to entice you to buy it.

You're sadly mistaken if you believe there is no trialware for the Mac.

On the Mac side, Apple hosts all the programs Mac has (which are alot to the contrary what people say) and has reviews in its own website from other people. You can download a free version to play with (which sometimes is not crippled) and also choose to buy it. I don't see Microsoft run a system like that for anyone except for Microsoft products and services.

That is absolutely untrue. Go to google and type in Mac Software and begin to try to count all of the software that Apple does not have on its website. Apple only hosts a small number of Mac software.

What do I make out of all this? Well, Apple checks applications to provide stability for the end user. Microsoft does not, it only cares for big companies. For me, stability is a must in a system.

IF you want stability, you need to avoid Apple like a plague. Both of my MacBooks have crashed more times than ALL of my Windows PCs ever have, combined. While Windows on my MacBook is rock solid, 100% stable.

Apple only checks software for the App Store for the iPhone and iPod touch. They certainly have no concept of quality control! It's easy to say that every 199 of 200 paid apps is NOT worth the money. And of the free apps, Pandora, AOL Radio, Remote, and a couple of others are the only ones worth downloading.

The 3rd party apps for Windows are mainstream that everyone uses. Example, Mikogo, an app for looking at a friend's desktop and even use remote control. Crashes many times if I start it up wrongly.

Mikogo is hardly mainstream. Why even use that when Windows has been including Remote Desktop software since the Win9x days?

I have yet to experience any sort of crash or moment of instability on my Mac (while running Windows, OS X is highly unstable) or my HP (dv6500t CTO, Vista).

Name one good app in Windows that is free and lacks a paid counterpart. There is rarely one. Mikogo has a paid counter part (not same company though) called Go-to-my-PC.

Again, why use that at all when there is free software built-in to Windows?

Second, good free software on Windows that DOES have a paid counterpart if perfectly functional and generally good enough for the user. Look at Comodo for example. It has a paid counterpart, but the free version gives you more options than any other personal firewall (free or paid) and it gives you full system protection as well. No ads, no crippling, nothing.

There is still no equivalent for PowerDVD/WinDVD/Media Center (Vista Premium/Ultimate)/TheaterTek/etc on OS X. There is no equivalent for Nero (sorry, Toast S U C K S). I can go on and on.

Mac on the other hand already has many programs that must be installed on to Windows.

Like what? Vista comes with photo management software. It comes with DVD burners (and ISO burners). It comes with video editing software. It doesn't come with music editing software, but Garageband goes unused on probably 9,999,999 out of every 10m Macs sold anyway.

I mention also Time Machine. Great app built in Mac. Windows does have something like it, but its crap. You can buy a software like Time Machine from Western Digital when you get an external HDD. Its called Memeo Back-up. It runs great and is easy to install; however, it is a pain to use sometimes and consumes lots of CPU cycles. Time machine on the other hand runs great. However, this are my personal experiences with the three machines I own

I do my own backups. I don't need the OS to do it for me and eat up precious system resources. Plus, Time Machine canNOT do encrypted backups.

It is true Mac OS X is built on NEXTstep. However, to date, even though it is based on ancient UNIX, BSD and Next software background, Mac OS X, runs very but very stable and delivers. At least it has delivered for me, again personal experience varies from person to person.

The only thing OS X has delivered me is severe frustration.

However, Vista had so many glitches when it came out, it seemed it was coded in a hurry. Why? Because they were using mix-up of stuff. XP, 2003 and NT. Trying to get a great GUI (which it is, has great GUI) and working OS together. It is not a easy task, but Microsoft released it too soon. Here is where decisions come to place.

Vista had no glitches. Any problems it had were caused by hardware vendors not getting drivers out on time. Quality vendors had quality drivers out, as they had many months to work with final code and years worth of betas to see how the driver model worked. It is not Vista's fault that second rate manufacturers didn't have good drivers available.

Take Bill Gates interview when presenting Windows 98. He got a BSOD while showing the entire US how great is was. The consequence, Microsoft had to rethink.

It's not like OS X has not had similar issues while Steve Jobs has been doing presentations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsKKQNZG3rE

I have invested on 2 machines. My 2003 Desktop originally came with only 512MB Ram and Integrated graphics. I bought the parts seperate and built the frigging machine. FTW!! Updated it 2 years ago (before Vista was announced) to 1.5GB Ram and nVidia GeForce 6600 OC with 256MB. Price tag for that $400. That plus $1200 that costed me the parts in 2003. Grand total $1600.00

My HP dv1660se came with only 1GB Ram. I updated it with 2GB Ram for a cost of $80. That plus $1100 that costed me in August 2006. Grand total: $1180.00

MacBook is still with the 2GB Ram it came with, will update when I get paid in Sept. Price Tag: Baseline Black MacBook > apple.com for details

Both my HP and MacBook are from September of 2007, though the HP was built in September and arrived in October.

HP was $950. 15.4" screen, memory card reader, 3 USB, Firewire, HDMI (HDCP certified), VGA, S-Video, full size ExpressCard, GeForce 8400M GS, Core 2 Duo 2GHz (Santa Rosa platform), extended capacity battery, fingerprint reader, DVD writer, 2GB of RAM, 160GB HDD, TV tuner.

MacBook was $1406. 2.16GHz Core 2 Duo (Napa platform), 1GB of RAM, DVD writer, Intel GMA 950, 2 USB, mini-DVI, Firewire, 120GB HDD. I had to buy the mini-DVI to VGA adapter to use it with an external display. I also had to buy 2GB of RAM. So the total cost so far is about $1470 after taxes for everything.

More than $500 more than my HP and not even as capable.
 
You wouldn't buy a car like this!

Whilst watching TV recently an advert came from PC World for a Dell Laptop saying the usual ... I forget the price but I dont think £350.00 was far off, however the next scene then went on to sat that if you bought this laptop you where then entitled to buy Norton AV etc for Half Price. Just imagine if you went to your local dealer to buy a new car and then got told yes thankyou for purchasing your new Ford,GM,Mercedes,BMW,Toyota etc you can also now purchase this big shiny new tool kit for half price.


To all you petrol heads out dont cheapen yourselves by saying the Maclaren F1 Came with a full toolkit and also dont point out most cars come with a very basic tool kit either :apple:
 
Actually, getting a Mac is a bad thing. You see, hes fallen victim to the hype. He doesn't truly know what he is getting into yet. When he gets his MacBook, he'll love it for the first few weeks. After that he'll realize he could have gotten so much more for so much less and that OS X is considerably overhyped and he'll wish he had gotten a Windows PC instead.



If you built it in 2003, you should know that the GeForce 6 series wasn't available until 2004. The GeForce 6600 wasn't available until August of that year actually. It was also the mid-range card of the series.

And if you did build it yourself, as you claim (though your statements suggest otherwise later on in your post), you would know that the Athlon64s were MUCH faster and MUCH cheaper (several hundred dollars) than the Pentium 4s. You could have gone with a faster and cheaper Athlon64 and been able to get a high end GeForce 6 instead of the mid-range card and slower Pentium 4.



First, you didn't prove anything with your comment. All you did prove was that you really don't know how to configure a PC, whether it be Windows or OS X. You also completely missed (or ignored) my point.

I bring up DVD playback for several reasons. First, I bring it up because the image quality in DVD Player is awful compared to PowerDVD, WinDVD, Theatertek, and Vista's built-in decoder (with a modern GPU). It looks even worse in Tiger and older versions of Mac OS X.

I bring it up because of CPU use as well. In Mac OS X, DVD playback can eat anywhere between 20-30% of a single core on a Core 2 Duo. Why? Because DVD playback is entirely software based in OS X (plus MacBooks lack dedicated hardware anyway). In Windows Vista and XP, you have DirectX Video Acceleration. You need a modern GPU to be able to take full advantage of it (not all GeForce 6600s had PureVideo, plus those that did did not have any of the features that the 7 series and above have). If you have any modern (from the last 3 years) nVidia or ATI GPU, and any of the semi-recent IGPs from either, you get full bitstream decoding, deblocking, deinterlacing, color correction, etc. etc. This allows DVD playback to be done in a reduced power state, it allows for MUCH MUCH MUCH better image quality, and it allows the CPU to run cooler. As a result, CPU use drops from the 20-30% in OS X down to ~2% in Windows on the same hardware. Even if you don't have a modern GPU, but you have an Intel GPU instead, it has certain hardware features that will take off 10-15% of the CPU load (but OS X does NOT take advantage of this). Honestly, OS X eats up more than twice the CPU time playing DVDs as WinDVD and PowerDVD did on my old Celeron 1.1GHz (and 566MHz before that) and doesn't look half as good as those did while doing it.

I just bring all of this up to point out that WIndows has had this technology since the 1990s. Back in the late 90s, GPUs had support for HWMC. Windows took advantage of it. Then later in the early part of this decade, GPUs had iDCT and HWMC support. Then shortly after they had deblocking, to clean up the compression artifacting. Then they started having HWMC, iDCT, etc. support for MPEG-4 codecs. Then eventually full bitstream decoding (where the GPU does ALL of the video work). Every single improvement was supported by Windows. All while OS X took advantage of nothing and, up until Leopard, did NOT improve the image quality of DVD Player since its introduction way back in OS 8.

The ability to play a DVD "smoothly" has absolutely nothing to do with my point. My points were all about IMAGE QUALITY (most important, and the area where OS X lacks the most), and the technology being used to play said DVD.



The great thing about Windows is how many different stores you can choose from. You're not confined to iTunes.

But honestly, iTunes rental service is terrible. The image quality of the video files is flat out bad. And thanks to OS X's lack of hardware support, CPU use goes up and the MacBook gets hot while watching H.264 video. If the MacBook had dedicated graphics AND OS X had system wide hardware acceleration for video, this wouldn't be a problem.

But why do I want to spend $4 to rent a movie that doesn't look as good as the DVD, doesn't SOUND as good as the DVD (I'm a sound nut, VERY important to me), and I only have 24 hours to watch? DVDs cost the same to rent, have larger window to watch, and are of much higher quality. I can also take that rented DVD and play it on my MacBook, HP, DVD player, upscaling DVD player, game consoles, portable DVD player, etc. etc. etc.



You've already made it clear that you don't take care of your XP based system. You probably haven't updated the drivers.



The MacBook with a DVD writer costs $1400 after taxes. There is absolutely no reason there should be ANY compromise of ANY sort. None. Not when $1400 at HP will get you a 15.4" system with a 1680x1050 screen, blu-ray, high capacity (but not larger) battery, GeForce 9600M GT, etc. If the MacBook with DVD writer was $700, then we could say that its a good value for the money. But for $1400, I expect NO compromise and the best performance possible. The MacBook simply does not deliver.



OpenCL will be in Snow Leopard. OpenGL is what you are looking for.

The OP needs to get the best for his money, and a MacBook simply does not offer that.



I use gmail with IMAP to my iPhone, Mail (OS X), and Windows Mail ;)



Examples?



You're sadly mistaken if you believe there is no trialware for the Mac.



That is absolutely untrue. Go to google and type in Mac Software and begin to try to count all of the software that Apple does not have on its website. Apple only hosts a small number of Mac software.



IF you want stability, you need to avoid Apple like a plague. Both of my MacBooks have crashed more times than ALL of my Windows PCs ever have, combined. While Windows on my MacBook is rock solid, 100% stable.

Apple only checks software for the App Store for the iPhone and iPod touch. They certainly have no concept of quality control! It's easy to say that every 199 of 200 paid apps is NOT worth the money. And of the free apps, Pandora, AOL Radio, Remote, and a couple of others are the only ones worth downloading.



Mikogo is hardly mainstream. Why even use that when Windows has been including Remote Desktop software since the Win9x days?

I have yet to experience any sort of crash or moment of instability on my Mac (while running Windows, OS X is highly unstable) or my HP (dv6500t CTO, Vista).



Again, why use that at all when there is free software built-in to Windows?

Second, good free software on Windows that DOES have a paid counterpart if perfectly functional and generally good enough for the user. Look at Comodo for example. It has a paid counterpart, but the free version gives you more options than any other personal firewall (free or paid) and it gives you full system protection as well. No ads, no crippling, nothing.

There is still no equivalent for PowerDVD/WinDVD/Media Center (Vista Premium/Ultimate)/TheaterTek/etc on OS X. There is no equivalent for Nero (sorry, Toast S U C K S). I can go on and on.



Like what? Vista comes with photo management software. It comes with DVD burners (and ISO burners). It comes with video editing software. It doesn't come with music editing software, but Garageband goes unused on probably 9,999,999 out of every 10m Macs sold anyway.



I do my own backups. I don't need the OS to do it for me and eat up precious system resources. Plus, Time Machine canNOT do encrypted backups.



The only thing OS X has delivered me is severe frustration.



Vista had no glitches. Any problems it had were caused by hardware vendors not getting drivers out on time. Quality vendors had quality drivers out, as they had many months to work with final code and years worth of betas to see how the driver model worked. It is not Vista's fault that second rate manufacturers didn't have good drivers available.



It's not like OS X has not had similar issues while Steve Jobs has been doing presentations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsKKQNZG3rE



Both my HP and MacBook are from September of 2007, though the HP was built in September and arrived in October.

HP was $950. 15.4" screen, memory card reader, 3 USB, Firewire, HDMI (HDCP certified), VGA, S-Video, full size ExpressCard, GeForce 8400M GS, Core 2 Duo 2GHz (Santa Rosa platform), extended capacity battery, fingerprint reader, DVD writer, 2GB of RAM, 160GB HDD, TV tuner.

MacBook was $1406. 2.16GHz Core 2 Duo (Napa platform), 1GB of RAM, DVD writer, Intel GMA 950, 2 USB, mini-DVI, Firewire, 120GB HDD. I had to buy the mini-DVI to VGA adapter to use it with an external display. I also had to buy 2GB of RAM. So the total cost so far is about $1470 after taxes for everything.

More than $500 more than my HP and not even as capable.

Whew, that was a long read.

I'm not going to call you a troll, even though I probably could, nor am I going to be mean about it. I'm just going to try to counter your arguments.

First off. Getting a Mac is not a "bad thing." I don't care what you think about Macs. A new computer is not a bad thing. My first computer, an iMac G4, just about a year ago, was pretty slow. It had only a 700MHz processor, and really couldn't do much more than internet, iLife, and Word, excel, etc. Basic applications. It was not a "bad thing."

Just about a week ago I earned enough money to buy myself a refurbished MacBook Pro. Granted, I already have experience with the Mac platform, and I won't try to argue that I didn't know what I was getting into. However, for $1449, I received a 2.2GHz SR C2D, 2GB RAM, a 7200RPM 120GB HD, 15" LED screen, and Leopard, with full copies of iWork, Microsoft Office, and Aperture installed. More importantly, I got a work of art. Maybe a Windows PC is faster, uses the hardware more efficiently, whatever. But considering it is a computer I spend my day in front of, it's foolish to assume that I'm only looking at the screen. I want a computer that's not an eyesore. And the MacBook Pro is a beautiful computer. Complain about price all you want, but do not deny that the MacBook Pro is attractive. Maybe for that money I could have gotten a Lenovo with a 2.5GHz Core 2 Duo and a 256 or 512MB graphics card as opposed to a 128. To be fair, I'm not a gamer. But I fail to see how such a small amount of increase is worth it when a) the Lenovos are ugly as sin :p, and b) it's a computer for school; for typing up papers and using the internet, using iLife, Photoshop perhaps. (You could argue about Photoshop, but in my experience, and I know you'll discount this because it's 'only what I said', my lowly Power Mac G5, with a dual 2GHz processor, 1.5GB RAM, and a crappy GeForce 5200 with 64MB, running Leopard, smokes the 2.13GHz Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, GeForce 7300 with 256MB running Windows XP. I'm sure a MacBook Pro would do great with Photoshop, thankyouverymuch.)

I'm not going to argue with the OS X comment, simply because it's hyped for a reason. So many people that try it fall in love with it. Some people don't and that's fine.

If you actually read what the other guy said, he upgraded it a year or two ago by adding a new graphics card. And criticizing someone for their choice of processor is pretty trollish (oopsdidijustsaytroll?).

I find it interesting how much you care about how much of the processor the DVD player uses. Honestly, are you going to be running ANYTHING ELSE in the background? (Well, perhaps in Windows it might not be a bad idea to have around thirty 'vital' processes running, especially that anti-virus scanner - gotta love wasting money on anti-virus/malware/trojan/spyware/adware/etc.ware scanners, I laugh at my dad when he starts up Norton because it's money that's just being thrown away. Oh, and I also acknowledge that Mac OS X has its fair share of background processes, but right now I'm running at about 10 essential, 5 semi-essential, and 5 actual applications. Meanwhile I periodically have to enter taskmgr to stop all of the unnecessary crap going on in the background. Malware for OS X does also exist, but at this point there isn't a single virus, just a low-level trojan that can't do very much. Safari has its share of security issues but I use Webkit, which is faster, safer, and smokes Safari on most tests, like for example Acid3 - Webkit has held 100% since about March, whereas Safari 3.1.2 lags at around 75%. All of this, though, is unachievable for Internet Explorer 7, which can't even pass the Acid2 test, and IE8. In fact, they still score at around 13 or 14 on the Acid3 test - if I remember correctly, even IE5.5 manages better than that! :p But I digress.) Okay, so it uses more CPU. Is that a problem? I played a DVD -just last night- on my MBP. I opened Activity Monitor about halfway through, to check the processor, as well as checked my dashboard for iStat pro. CPU usage was at 8.4%. Maybe it's different for the MacBook, but I consider that pretty good. Oh, and temperature was 51 degrees Celsius. That's a little higher than baseline, but nowhere near dangerous. Fans were running a tiny bit higher than baseline, at about 2100rpm. The internals themselves were making almost no noise. Again, maybe the MBP is better with this, but you're complaining about OS X, not the MacBook. I don't understand your complaints about how "good it looks." It's a DVD, it looks the same, whether on the hi-def TV in our living room or the MBP in my bedroom or the HP PC in my dad's room. I'm not getting artifacts, I'm not getting lagging, I'm not getting heat, I'm not getting poor image quality. I've never used VLC, but from what I've heard, it's better. I may try it sometime. DVD Player, however, has worked very well for me, and I don't see any loss in image quality when I stop watching a DVD on the TV and pop it in the MBP when I want to watch it upstairs.

"Confined to iTunes", am I? Actually, no, not even close. I do use iTunes, but I've been using it since back in my Windows days. There's plenty of ways to buy music/movies/etc. iTunes just happens to be what my dad used, and so that's what I've got. I can just as easily get my music and movies from Amazon, or simply at a store. Apple hasn't confiscated my rights, you know. I've never used iTunes rentals, but the whole idea of online rentals seems so silly when we have Blockbuster rentals. 5 DVDs a month, $8. I agree there, that iTunes rentals are probably not a great idea.

Quit harping on the guy with respect to his Windows systems!! When you have a poor experience with OS X, you fault Apple, then you turn around and give a guy who's trying to put forth some valid counterpoints and some experiences of his a tongue-lashing because his Windows experience isn't great. Have you ever thought for a moment that maybe Windows isn't perfect and the guy is just having some trouble with his Windows system? Or perhaps he is fault, but maybe you're not treating your MacBook right? Or neither!

I must say though, why should he HAVE to update the drivers? On OS X, I don't have to update the drivers and everything works just peachy. If someone's sticking with the same hardware with Windows, and it works, there's no reason why one should update the drivers. Indeed, a "critical driver update" for the PC my dad owns induced a BSOD on startup. Had to start up in safe mode and roll back the driver. As no one in the family is a true expert at Windows (I do know my way around it, but not as well as OS X), that was harder than it sounds for you. Simply plugging in a FireWire peripheral BSOD'ed the same computer. Not recognizing it, I can understand, but when I tried to install Pro Tools, and plugged in the rack, bam goes the BSOD, and restart loop ensued; it was only remedied by unplugging the computer. That should never happen, even without drivers.

Now, to price. My MacBook Pro was $1450. It has a good processor, 1440x900 screen (to be honest I prefer that as my eyesight is very poor, but unless you need the extra pixels for profession use, it's really a non-issue. Plus, all of the low-cost 15.4" PC laptops I've seen have the much lower 1280x800, most of the middle-cost have the industry-standard 1440x900, and the higher-end have 1680x1050, with some select 1920x1200. If I wanted a higher-res screen, I could get one for very little money and install it easily, anyway), double-layer SuperDrive (sure, it doesn't have blu-ray, but considering a high-school/college kid probably doesn't have the money for more than a few blu-ray movies anyway, as they are very expensive, DVDs are probably all the computer is going to get), a five-hour battery that will actually last five hours (and blu-ray is a beast to batteries, it takes some laptops down in less than two hours), and even about four hours of DVD, and the ..um...rather doomed GeForce 8600M. However, I don't need a graphics card at all, so I'm okay there. Now, before you jump on me about how it's refurb, let me tell you - it's new. Not lightly used, not it's-got-a-little-bump here. New. Not to mention more attractive than that HP laptop you've got on a pedestal over there.
 
Ooh. Trialware. My favorite. Now, I do understand that OS X comes with two trials, iWork 08, and Microsoft Office 2004. Compare that to the fifty-three (yes, I counted) trialware/adware programs that came piled on the HP PC my dad bought in August 2006. This includes stuff like WildTangent, an adware game driver from hell that forced us to clean install Windows XP on the Dell we used to own. However, someone must have made a mistake because my MBP came with a nice full installation of Aperture, iWork, and MS Office. And no trials.

Okay. Apple doesn't have *all* the Mac software. You took his hyperbole literally. But when I'm looking for a program to do something that I don't already have, chances are that the Apple downloads site will come up with a helpful app, even if it is shareware.

Okay, now you're really becoming annoying. "Avoid Apple like the plague." Seriously, that isn't even helpful discussion. However, since we're all inputting the experience we've had, I'll let everyone know how my Macs have done over the years.
First off, a Power Mac G5, bought in 2004. Heavy usage with Pro Tools and other intensive programs. Still rock-solid.
Age: Well, June 2004, so 50 months. Pretty old.
Operating system: Leopard, obviously. It screams.
Crashes: None.
Kernel panics: Not a one.
Driver issues: Never.
Longest uptime: I've had it on for twenty days running without ill effect.
Expected lifespan: At the rate it's going, it should probably work well into 2011 or 2012, giving it a Mac-average lifespan of about seven years. After that it can still be useful as a file/download server, or perhaps a computer to put down by the TV and run 'old' Mac games on ;)
Next, an iMac G4, bought used in 2007, originally made in January 2002.
Age: 73 months. That's OLD.
Operating system: Tiger. It could run Leopard pretty well, but it can't read the double-layer disc that the Leopard DVD is on.
Crashes: No, although it did slow down after a few days on, so I restarted it.
Kernel panics: No.
Driver issues: Driver issues!? All I did was iChat, internet, iMovie, GarageBand, and Word! I didn't have driver issues!
Longest uptime: About four days. This is where it really showed its age.
Expected lifespan: Well, I sold it a few weeks ago, but the person who bought it from me planned to use it as a computer at the front desk of his business, so it's not going straight to the trash heap. Last I heard it's doing great in its new home; hopefully it will be valuable to the man for months, if not years, to come.
Third, a PowerBook G4. I owned this for a very short time, but it's important to know that, no, my experience has not been perfect. The PowerBook G4 was a big disappointment, really.
Age: About the same as the G5. I got it this year, and sent it back for a refund within two weeks. I'd guess 46-54 months.
Crashes/kernelpanics/driverissues: None at all.
Longest uptime: No comment. It wasn't used much.
Expected lifespan: With a faulty LCD, a big dent, and a poor battery, it was pretty much DOA. It worked okay sometimes, but I imagine this one is headed to be parted out on eBay.
Fourth, and most recently, my MacBook Pro.
Age: It's a 2007 model, but coconutBattery states that my computer is a surprisingly new 6 weeks old. It probably had the logic board and other components replaced, which would explain the new age.
Crashes/kernelpanics/driverissues: No.
Expected lifespan: Well, I'll be getting a new one when I head off to college, in three years, but it should serve my younger sister or parents or grandparents well for at least three more after that. Even still, it's a true museum piece, so I imagine it'll stick around for years and years. Kinda like the 40 year old film projector in the garage.
Now, I'll compare that with the experience I've had with my dad's PC. Good, but leaves a little to be desired.
Age: 24 months now. It's stable, but feels a little slow.
Crashes: Yeah, several. I had to system-recovery a few times for my dad.
BSODs: Unfortunately, many. Back when I played world of warcraft, I got a BSOD about every three hours. Since then it's been pretty stable, but a few times (like when I installed Pro Tools) it got ugly.
Driver issues: One or two. Not too bad, except when the system tried to install a SATA/RAID controller for an SCSI disk, thus rendering the disk unusable.
Longest uptime: About three days. It BSOD'ed after that.
Expected lifespan: It isn't used as much anymore, or as intensively, so it probably has another year and a half or so. Unfortunately, it already feels a little outdated and slow. It's a good computer, but I suppose you get what you pay for - a $1200 desktop just doesn't give you the same lifespan as a $3000 one. The G5 is most likely going to last longer than the PC, and we paid more, but we got more.

Oh, and Time Machine doesn't eat up "precious system resources". It uses almost zero, when it's connected by USB or FireWire, and only 1 or 2% when done by WiFi. It's also made transferring settings and applications and passwords a breeze. I understand if you want to backup yourself, but Time Machine is a good investment anyway if you want to migrate anything, or recover your computer if there's a problem.

Sorry to hear about your OS X experience, and glad to hear that Vista's treated you well, but I have to admit my experience has been the opposite.

Oh, and I've always thought that MacBooks were kind of a rip-off when sold new. However, you can get a 2.4 Penryn refurb one for $1099.

I'll see how your HP laptop is in a few years while I use my older, but still rock-solid MacBook Pro in a few years. Hope all is well for yours; and I wish the same for mine.
 
especially that anti-virus scanner - gotta love wasting money on anti-virus/malware/trojan/spyware/adware/etc.ware scanners

Didn't really want to get into this again.... BUT... everything you just listed as "wasting money" have extremely solid free options that are as good, and in most cases much better, than pay options.
 
I know some of you have been wondering what happened to me but I've just been busy, so sorry for that. Anyway, I went to the mall in Pittsburgh yesterday and visited their Apple Store and everyone was friendly and helped me out with using apple's beautiful machines and I really like like both the look of the hardware and the look of osx. Although, it's not set in stone and mom still wants me to get a dell in her heart, I will most likely be getting a MacBook. BUT I'M WAITING FOR THE NEW ONES NEXT MONTH! Btw, I'm still reading this periodically.

high five! alright man, congrats. :D glad it worked out for you. let us know when you finally get it.
 
If you built it in 2003, you should know that the GeForce 6 series wasn't available until 2004. The GeForce 6600 wasn't available until August of that year actually. It was also the mid-range card of the series.

And if you did build it yourself, as you claim (though your statements suggest otherwise later on in your post), you would know that the Athlon64s were MUCH faster and MUCH cheaper (several hundred dollars) than the Pentium 4s. You could have gone with a faster and cheaper Athlon64 and been able to get a high end GeForce 6 instead of the mid-range card and slower Pentium

Ok, I clearly stated that the GeForce was bought 2 years before Vista's release which means 2004. That was my mistake not pointing that out earlier.

I went Intel as I lived in Honduras back when I built the machine and Intel has a strong foothold here. Besides, AMD were not available back home at that time.

As per the machine itself. It runs fast and great. I am not saying it lags or anything. It is built on great hardware and thus had no problems when Vista was installed.

As per Mikogo, here it Honduras it is a mainstream program. That's why I bring it up.

My HP dv1660se is not abandoned. I use it in college and use my Mac for personal stuff. The HP is update fully (including drivers) every week. It is clean of viruses and spyware.

Why do I choose iTunes? Well, I don't use the rental option. No, I actually buy the movies since I want to see them again later on and paying $2.99 or $3.99 every time adds up. Plus I have the Apple TV set and I have copies of the movies in my Desktop. So I have really nothing to complain on that front.

I actually know how to configure my PC. Every program (once started up) asks to be default, which I find annoying, so thats why I get does messages. iTunes asks everytime if it is not 100% default in Win machine.

Yes, I meant OpenGL, that's my mistake.

I also have Google IMAP. Guess where the money comes from to pay for that Google goodness? Yes, if you said Ads, you guessed right.

Second rate manufacturers seem to be mainstream in the US and some places in the world, thus Microsoft had to plan for them also. Not everyone can afford expensive computer hardware. Think of that also.

Someone mentioned GameChannel here. Yes, that's crapware. Filled my poor HP laptop's HDD in the begining. I also cleaned that stuff out and XP great alot faster. Not every mainstream Window's program is great as you say.

The only thing OS X has delivered me is severe frustration.

This is the only quote I will include. This quote clearly tells me its your personal experience talking here. Once again, your experience may differ from mine or anyone else's.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-

I am not gonna argue the whole thing since you stated that you have had headaches with Macs.

Well, I haven't, but I haven't had headaches with Windows also. All three of them deliver for their price.

Your needs may be different than mine. Again, I won't argue all the points I made as I already made them once, no need to repeat that whole thing.

Again I repeat, it is your personal experience is different than mine or anyone else's. You may have had issues, but it doesn't mean the OP will.


For the record: I am endorsing the kid gets a Mac because he knows what he wants.
 
Didn't really want to get into this again.... BUT... everything you just listed as "wasting money" have extremely solid free options that are as good, and in most cases much better, than pay options.

There's not alot of freeware solutions for good anti-virus software, unless you mean those free online scans, which don't run in the background etc.

I bought NOD32 for my Windows machine, I used to use ZoneAlarm, but I just use the built-in Firewall now.
 
There's not alot of freeware solutions for good anti-virus software, unless you mean those free online scans, which don't run in the background etc.

I bought NOD32 for my Windows machine, I used to use ZoneAlarm, but I just use the built-in Firewall now.


Avira AntiVir always ranks extremely high when comparing A/Vs, but you also have Avast! and AVG. Both are solid free choices that are still better than many pay options.
 
I'm not going to call you a troll, even though I probably could, nor am I going to be mean about it. I'm just going to try to counter your arguments.

The fact that you bring up the word "troll" less than 15 words into your posts shows that you're just another person who can't accept hearing the truth. One thing I've learned here and at other Apple related forums is that once you point out the real flaws in Macs and OS X, people start throwing the "T word" around because they have absolutely no way to counter the truth and don't like to hear the fact that they made a mistake in purchasing a Mac. At least I can admit my MacBook was a mistake.

First off. Getting a Mac is not a "bad thing." I don't care what you think about Macs. A new computer is not a bad thing. My first computer, an iMac G4, just about a year ago, was pretty slow. It had only a 700MHz processor, and really couldn't do much more than internet, iLife, and Word, excel, etc. Basic applications. It was not a "bad thing."

A "new" computer is a bad thing if its not new and can't even be bothered with modern tasks. The G4s were always ridiculously slow, regardless of Apple's claims. I bet you can't even browse many sites with Flash ads with a G4 at 700MHz.

However, for $1449, I received a 2.2GHz SR C2D, 2GB RAM, a 7200RPM 120GB HD, 15" LED screen, and Leopard, with full copies of iWork, Microsoft Office, and Aperture installed.

Full copies installed, eh? Do you have the discs? Probably not. Nothing to brag about if its pirated software.

For $1452.99 you could have gone over to HP. Vista 64-bit, 2.4GHz Penryn C2D, 2GB of RAM, 250GB HDD, blu-ray, 15.4" 1680x1050 GLASS screen, 512MB GeForce 9600M GT, high capacity (but not bigger) battery.

More importantly, I got a work of art. Maybe a Windows PC is faster, uses the hardware more efficiently, whatever. But considering it is a computer I spend my day in front of, it's foolish to assume that I'm only looking at the screen. I want a computer that's not an eyesore. And the MacBook Pro is a beautiful computer. Complain about price all you want, but do not deny that the MacBook Pro is attractive.

As I said in another post over at the iPod touch forum here

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You think the MacBook Pro looks good the same way some people find Paris Hilton attractive. I don't like stick figure women with boyish faces the same way I don't like "grill" design over the speakers and power button and such on the MacBook Pro. In fact, I specifically chose the MacBook over the MacBook Pro because I find the MacBook Pro to be ridiculously ugly.

The MacBook Pro also has other issues. The weak aluminum design is notorious for bending, scratching, and warping due to heat. The computer itself seems to work as a conductor for heat thanks to the downright horrible cooling system design and the fact that its all metal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv38uGj0PhY

I've seen too many MacBook Pros and aluminum PowerBooks that were supposedly "babied" that have dents, dings, deep scratches, etc. Plus I don't want my computer to get so hot that I have to worry about my fertility.

Maybe for that money I could have gotten a Lenovo with a 2.5GHz Core 2 Duo and a 256 or 512MB graphics card as opposed to a 128.

For the price you paid for the MacBook Pro, you could have gotten twice the HDD space, blu-ray, a GPU that isn't at the bottom of the mid-range cards, USER REPLACEABLE parts (sorry, its STUPID that you have to tear the computer apart to get to the HDD and optical drive), etc.

and b) it's a computer for school; for typing up papers and using the internet, using iLife, Photoshop perhaps.

Well, considering every single page out there has Flash ads these days, you're better off with Windows for "using the internet" because Flash isn't horribly inefficient on Windows and won't ramp the processors up.

You'll soon find that iTunes and iPhoto are the only useful iLife apps. The rest are essentially useless and there are freeware equivalents on Windows.

Photoshop perhaps. (You could argue about Photoshop, but in my experience, and I know you'll discount this because it's 'only what I said', my lowly Power Mac G5, with a dual 2GHz processor, 1.5GB RAM, and a crappy GeForce 5200 with 64MB, running Leopard, smokes the 2.13GHz Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, GeForce 7300 with 256MB running Windows XP. I'm sure a MacBook Pro would do great with Photoshop, thankyouverymuch.)

Theres definitely something wrong with that WIndows PC then. I'm guessing you or your family members messed up the configuration. Because there is absolutely no way a G5 should outperform any 2GHz C2D. None. Even the old Core Duos at 2GHz outperformed all of the G5 PowerMacs. A modern Core 2 Duo will mop the floor with the G5 then throw it in the trash when its finished. So thats a user configuration error there. For the record, the CS3 trial runs equally as fast on Leopard on my 2.16GHz C2D as it does on my Vista machine with a 2GHz C2D.

If you actually read what the other guy said, he upgraded it a year or two ago by adding a new graphics card. And criticizing someone for their choice of processor is pretty trollish (oopsdidijustsaytroll?).

He said he built the entire system in 2003. I pointed out that not all of his hardware was available in 2003. I also pointed out his choice in hardware as proof that he doesn't know enough about hardware to make judgements or comments about it.

I find it interesting how much you care about how much of the processor the DVD player uses. Honestly, are you going to be running ANYTHING ELSE in the background?

A couple of reasons. First, I generally watch DVDs while chatting in IM. Second, higher CPU use means more heat. It means the fan runs more. Both higher CPU use and higher fan use mean less battery life and more hot air blowing out.

(Well, perhaps in Windows it might not be a bad idea to have around thirty 'vital' processes running, especially that anti-virus scanner - gotta love wasting money on anti-virus/malware/trojan/spyware/adware/etc.ware scanners

Virus scanner? In Vista? Or XP SP2? Only if you're browsing sites you shouldn't be and you're lacking the common sense that would tell you not to download, install, and execute that suspicious file that the shady website wants you to download and install. Browsing sites and doing things you shouldn't is no more difficult than say... driving on the proper side of the road and using your turn signals.

Oh, and I also acknowledge that Mac OS X has its fair share of background processes, but right now I'm running at about 10 essential, 5 semi-essential, and 5 actual applications

Thank you for proving you're a liar. In Activity Monitor select "All Processes" from the pull down menu in the top right corner next to the Filter search box. Right now I have iChat, Yahoo, MSN, TextEdit, and Firefox 3 open and yet I somehow have 58 processes open. Hmm.

Meanwhile I periodically have to enter taskmgr to stop all of the unnecessary crap going on in the background

You already proved you're a liar. Trying to add to it with this statement?

Safari has its share of security issues but I use Webkit

You know that Safari is built on Webkit, right?

All of this, though, is unachievable for Internet Explorer 7, which can't even pass the Acid2 test, and IE8

Thats fine. Everyone should be using Firefox 3 anyway.

Okay, so it uses more CPU. Is that a problem? I played a DVD -just last night- on my MBP. I opened Activity Monitor about halfway through, to check the processor, as well as checked my dashboard for iStat pro. CPU usage was at 8.4%. Maybe it's different for the MacBook, but I consider that pretty good.

And what settings were you using? With DVD Player, you have to set it to "Good" deinterlacing so it looks a little bit better than the default settings. This causes an increase in CPU use. You also have to use the EQ to boost bass and vocals, since DVD Player does NOT decode the LFE channel like every other respectable DVD player does.

You also have to take other things into consideration. For example the bitrate during said scene, the amount of action going on, etc. Playing a DVD isn't a simple matter of displaying a picture.

I don't understand your complaints about how "good it looks." It's a DVD, it looks the same, whether on the hi-def TV in our living room or the MBP in my bedroom or the HP PC in my dad's room. I'm not getting artifacts, I'm not getting lagging, I'm not getting heat, I'm not getting poor image quality. I've never used VLC, but from what I've heard, it's better. I may try it sometime. DVD Player, however, has worked very well for me, and I don't see any loss in image quality when I stop watching a DVD on the TV and pop it in the MBP when I want to watch it upstairs.

Ah, the classic misuse of the term "lag".

Anyway, go over to avsforum and try to tell them a "DVD is just a DVD and looks fine no matter where it is". You'll get laughed off the forum before you finish posting.

As the saying goes, ignorance is bliss. If you haven't seen high quality DVD playback (DVD player is not it, neither is a progressive scan player connected to an "HDTV") then you simply cannot appreciate or know how good a DVD looks.

Vista with DXVA and a modern GPU will do the entire bitstream processing in hardware, the GPU will clean up compression artifacting, it will deinterlace the picture in hardware, and it will upscale the picture in hardware. All of that is done in software in OS X and results in higher CPU use and lower quality.

"Confined to iTunes", am I? Actually, no, not even close. I do use iTunes, but I've been using it since back in my Windows days. There's plenty of ways to buy music/movies/etc. iTunes just happens to be what my dad used, and so that's what I've got. I can just as easily get my music and movies from Amazon, or simply at a store. Apple hasn't confiscated my rights, you know. I've never used iTunes rentals, but the whole idea of online rentals seems so silly when we have Blockbuster rentals. 5 DVDs a month, $8. I agree there, that iTunes rentals are probably not a great idea.

You can't get video from Amazon's online store (their digital store, not disc store obviously) and watch it on your Mac without Windows.

And yes you are confined to iTunes. Show me another piece of "decent" music playing and organization software on OS X. Thankfully we have VLC as an alternative to Quicktime, but we're stuck with iTunes.

Quit harping on the guy with respect to his Windows systems!! When you have a poor experience with OS X, you fault Apple, then you turn around and give a guy who's trying to put forth some valid counterpoints and some experiences of his a tongue-lashing because his Windows experience isn't great. Have you ever thought for a moment that maybe Windows isn't perfect and the guy is just having some trouble with his Windows system? Or perhaps he is fault, but maybe you're not treating your MacBook right? Or neither!

First of all, how can I not treat my MacBook right? It never leaves the desk. The case gets too hot to use as a portable. So it stays on the desk. I only unplug it every few days to keep the battery healthy.

Second, venture outside of the Apple forums for awhile. You'll see that about 98% of all Windows user problems and complaints are user error. Then you go back to the Apple forums and nearly the same amount is related to hardware issues and build quality issues.

The issues this guy had were the result of his own use. Not the fault of Windows.

I must say though, why should he HAVE to update the drivers? On OS X, I don't have to update the drivers and everything works just peachy. If someone's sticking with the same hardware with Windows, and it works, there's no reason why one should update the drivers.

Driver updates bring feature and performance enhancements.

Years ago I had GeForce 2. This was when nvidia was still on single digit driver series and they were called "Detonator" drivers. When nvidia brought out the 10.80 drivers, everyones framerates literally doubled. Even better, since I've had my HP dv6500t, driver updates and Windows updates have doubled my frame-rates. Even going from the last drivers up to the recent 177.83 drivers raised my numbers.

I had a soundcard a couple of years ago too. Driver updates brought the option for bit-perfect audio through the digital output, as well as hardware audio upsampling over the 24/96 codec it had.

I also had a TV tuner card. Driver updates gave it the ability to record at 480p instead of 480i.

If you think drivers shouldn't be updated because they "work" then you truly are an Apple fanboy and your expectations and standards are far too low for the Windows world.

Indeed, a "critical driver update" for the PC my dad owns induced a BSOD on startup. Had to start up in safe mode and roll back the driver. As no one in the family is a true expert at Windows (I do know my way around it, but not as well as OS X), that was harder than it sounds for you. Simply plugging in a FireWire peripheral BSOD'ed the same computer. Not recognizing it, I can understand, but when I tried to install Pro Tools, and plugged in the rack, bam goes the BSOD, and restart loop ensued; it was only remedied by unplugging the computer. That should never happen, even without drivers.

BSODs like that are a sign of faulty hardware, not driver issues. A single BSOD can be caused by bad drivers. But something like that is the result of faulty hardware.

It has a good processor, 1440x900 screen (to be honest I prefer that as my eyesight is very poor, but unless you need the extra pixels for profession use, it's really a non-issue. Plus, all of the low-cost 15.4" PC laptops I've seen have the much lower 1280x800, most of the middle-cost have the industry-standard 1440x900, and the higher-end have 1680x1050, with some select 1920x1200.

A PC costing less will have a 1680x1050 screen. An $800 HP can have a 1680x1050 screen.

double-layer SuperDrive (sure, it doesn't have blu-ray, but considering a high-school/college kid probably doesn't have the money for more than a few blu-ray movies anyway, as they are very expensive, DVDs are probably all the computer is going to get)

Around here in southern California, a blu-ray disc is the same $20 DVDs were a few years ago when they were new. By new I mean new release movies, not new format.

a five-hour battery that will actually last five hours

Not in real world situations.

MacBook Pro and MacBook screens get too dim at the lowest setting. You have to have it at 50%, so that cuts your battery life down to 3.5 hours right there. Plus if you browse the web with any kind of Flash ads, that will eat into the overall life as well as cause the fans to spin up eating more life. Realistically, you get about 3.5 hours out of either a MacBook or MacBook Pro.

even about four hours of DVD

I get 4 hours and 47 minutes playing a DVD on my MacBook. But thats with the screen to the lowest setting (unusable), headphones, default deinterlacing settings and no EQ.

Using reasonable settings and quality.. well, I haven't tried that yet. I'll have to.

and the ..um...rather doomed GeForce 8600M. However, I don't need a graphics card at all

First, the GeForce problems with MacBooks are not the result of the small batch that had issues. They die because of Apple's ridiculous "cooling" system and less than 1" thick case (open) housing chips that are designed to run as hot as 100c. In all metal I might add.

Second, if you care about video quality at all then you do need that GeForce. But since you're using OS X and have never seen good DVD playback....

Not to mention more attractive than that HP laptop you've got on a pedestal over there.

As I said, the MacBook Pro is Paris Hilton to me ;) Its stick thin, has ugly features, and the resulting design has too many problems and build quality issues. The thin design also has a poor cooling system that will cause the internal components to run at higher temperatures that impact the overall lifespan of the components.

My HP is more like Scarlett Johansson. The curves and overall shape fit your hand better, it has a proper cooling system that will increase the overall lifespan (61c CPU under load versus 88c CPU under load in the MacBook), it has many more features, options, connectivity, and upgrade options. It can simply do more. I can connect it to my HDTV with a single cable, I can upgrade to a blu-ray drive, I can get a double capacity battery, I can replace the HDD without performing surgery, etc.
 
Ooh. Trialware. My favorite. Now, I do understand that OS X comes with two trials, iWork 08, and Microsoft Office 2004. Compare that to the fifty-three (yes, I counted) trialware/adware programs that came piled on the HP PC my dad bought in August 2006. This includes stuff like WildTangent, an adware game driver from hell that forced us to clean install Windows XP on the Dell we used to own. However, someone must have made a mistake because my MBP came with a nice full installation of Aperture, iWork, and MS Office. And no trials.

More like you were given pirated software.

Anyhow, my HP shipped with ONE piece of trialware. The Norton trial. The Norton Removal Tool (from Norton) takes care of that quickly and cleanly though. Everything else was just a internet shortcut placed on the desktop.

My MacBook shipped with twice as much trialware ;) The Office and iWork trials.

Now, I'll compare that with the experience I've had with my dad's PC. Good, but leaves a little to be desired.
Age: 24 months now. It's stable, but feels a little slow.
Crashes: Yeah, several. I had to system-recovery a few times for my dad.
BSODs: Unfortunately, many. Back when I played world of warcraft, I got a BSOD about every three hours. Since then it's been pretty stable, but a few times (like when I installed Pro Tools) it got ugly.
Driver issues: One or two. Not too bad, except when the system tried to install a SATA/RAID controller for an SCSI disk, thus rendering the disk unusable.
Longest uptime: About three days. It BSOD'ed after that.

You've made it clear already that you're not honest and that the system has HARDWARE issues. It should have been fixed while it was under warranty.

Expected lifespan: It isn't used as much anymore, or as intensively, so it probably has another year and a half or so. Unfortunately, it already feels a little outdated and slow. It's a good computer, but I suppose you get what you pay for - a $1200 desktop just doesn't give you the same lifespan as a $3000 one. The G5 is most likely going to last longer than the PC, and we paid more, but we got more.

Absolutely untrue. You apparently don't read anything about the high failure rate of the G5s thanks to inadequate cooling and poor chip design. Also, again, your father's system has hardware issues that need to be resolved. You got a bum system out of the box. That happens. My first MacBook's "SuperDrive" was bad out of the box.

I could literally build a Windows desktop PC right now that will mop the floor with the Mac Pro in real world situations AND last longer for HALF the price.

Oh, and Time Machine doesn't eat up "precious system resources". It uses almost zero, when it's connected by USB or FireWire, and only 1 or 2% when done by WiFi. It's also made transferring settings and applications and passwords a breeze. I understand if you want to backup yourself, but Time Machine is a good investment anyway if you want to migrate anything, or recover your computer if there's a problem.

No encrypted backups, no cross platform compatibility, nothing. Time Machine is good if you like to delete files for some reason. But its hardly an ideal solution for REAL data storage.

I'll see how your HP laptop is in a few years while I use my older, but still rock-solid MacBook Pro in a few years. Hope all is well for yours; and I wish the same for mine.

Well, considering the fact that my HP has a proper cooling system and user replaceable parts. I guarantee you that my HP will still be alive for years after your MacBook Pro dies a heat related death.

Not only that, but for the cost of a new MacBook Pro, I could buy a more powerful system this year and then an even more powerful system two years from now and still have money in my pocket compared to what that one MacBook Pro cost.

Besides, AMD were not available back home at that time.

You had internet access? You could buy anything.

Why do I choose iTunes? Well, I don't use the rental option. No, I actually buy the movies since I want to see them again later on and paying $2.99 or $3.99 every time adds up. Plus I have the Apple TV set and I have copies of the movies in my Desktop. So I have really nothing to complain on that front.

DVDs are cheaper than iTunes purchases, they play on anything, they play anywhere thanks to legitimate region free hardware, they are of MUCH higher quality, and you don't have to worry about DRM issues.

I actually know how to configure my PC. Every program (once started up) asks to be default, which I find annoying, so thats why I get does messages. iTunes asks everytime if it is not 100% default in Win machine.

You can't click "Do Not Ask Again?"

I also have Google IMAP. Guess where the money comes from to pay for that Google goodness? Yes, if you said Ads, you guessed right.

Ads can't pay for my service when I'm never fed an ad.
 
As for AMD. Buying through the internet in 2003 Honduras was not a good choice. Things in Honduras tend to get stolen in the mail (whether you used DHL, UPS, etc). Why would I pay for a processor I would never get. I went with what was already here and less hassle free. And yes, I know you got ripped for ripping me on the mismatch of hardware, once again I apologize for not making that time line straight to you.

Did use don't ask again. Issues keeps comming.

DRM on iTunes is of little importance to me. I carry the laptop with me so the movies go with me wherever I go. Also, I have my iPhone and iPod touch with me.

Even though you see no actual ads, the money to pay for an ad free service is still provided by ads somewhere else (like a Google search you did). So it is still not a free service, someone still pays for the whole thing.
 
Holy ****.... why are so many parents like this!? My parent's never bought me a computer at all, but damn....

As a related story, both of my parents have PC's and they are constantly having problems with ****, and they are really confused by Windows. They've gone through 3-4 PC's each while I've own the same Mac G5 desktop, and whenever they actually need **** done, they have me do it on my Mac. But for some reason, they are really not interested in getting a mac themselves. Every time they are about to buy a new computer, they ask for my advice, because I 'know what I'm talking about'. I tell 'em to go with Apple, but they always come home with some ********, low end PC.

And then they say "Oh, I don't have to worry about viruses, 'cause this one came with free norton!"

EYES ROLL!

Take whatever computer they give you - DON'T open it - SELL IT - and then put it towards the Apple. Grow some balls and tell them that you are sick of them making decisions for you that they are not qualified to make. Tell 'em that you appreciate the help, but you are a grown man, and if they wanna help, they can help you YOUR way!

Seriously, try taking a stand. It sounds like it might be good for your relationship overall honestly!

halcyo


i like the take it and sell it idea - also, my dad is b*tching about my wanting a macbook cuz my northwood TOshiba is gettting old... its sooo unfair - and i took him to try out a mac, he loved how fast tehy were but then said that i could get one AFTER:mad: he got one :( what a bast*rd i mean COME ON!!!! he just hates me :mad:


for that reason i have gotten a job and plan to just buy my own macboo and rub it in :apple: i mean, is anyone else's parent an @$$ hole??
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.