Macs are not flawless. Okay! There! I said it, and I mean it! Are you happy? It's a piece of hardware, and hardware can have defects! Dells, HPs, Lenovos, Acers, Asus, Toshibas. They all have defects too. I've already told you about the defective PowerBook I had. I returned it because it was not in adequate condition. But the other three Macs I have owned were in no way mistakes. Don't try to tell me what I should think about my computers. I could tell you your HP sucks and you made a mistake in buying it because it doesn't run OS X. However, I won't because it's your choice. If you like your laptop, enjoy! Seriously! I'm glad you like it!
Actually, no, my G4 handled Flash just fine, thanks. I bought it from eBay, and I got what I asked for - an inexpensive computer that handled the tasks I needed it to. Not everyone needs maximum performance all the time, and it did what I wanted it to. Don't tell me that it's a bad thing because it's not up to your standards. I didn't buy it to have a "new" computer. I bought it because it was all I could afford, and because I was interested in OS X. That computer was the best computer I have ever had because it introduced me to the world of OS X. I had had the G5 before that, but it was solely a music production computer, and it was not connected to the internet, thus making it useless for the things I needed it to do. So, in essence, the first Mac I used was the G4/700, and you can call it slow all you want, because, to be fair, it didn't scream. But it ran Tiger much better than I would expect it to.
Pirated software, of course. Because Apple pirates software and sends the computer to me with the copies installed. Why didn't I think of that?
For $1450 my dad got a good desktop HP PC that performed and still does perform well as long as no one tried to play games on it. For a PC designed to run games, with a solid nVidia GeForce 7300 card, it's not normal for it to overheat and BSOD when playing world of warcraft. I shouldn't have to screw with the insides of the computer to get it to do things it's designed to do. Don't tell me I'm not treating it well, because my dad has ensured that all the drivers are up to date. So sorry to burst your bubble, but when my dad "went over to HP" he had a pretty bad experience. Oh, and I just went to HP.com to configure a laptop as close as I could to what you were describing, and the closest price I got was about $1862, before $100 rebate. That's with no productivity software, no warranty, no anti-virus, basically just Vista 64-bit installed. Which basically leaves it down to preferences. You prefer Windows, I prefer OS X. That's fine. But that computer isn't $550 cheaper than the base-config MacBook Pro. $200, maybe, but I'd frankly rather have the features that come with OS X. Again, it's a preference. No inherent superiority.
Okay, I'll concede that. I personally think the MacBook Pro is beautiful, but that's a valid statement. Point taken. (That Paris Hilton statement is a cheap shot though
)
HOWEVER, you're making a blanket statement. The aluminum case is certainly not "weak". It helps keep it cool, and, while it will show dents from improper usage, it is a very sturdy design in the sense that it will keep the internals safe. I've read about MBPs falling out of moving cars, and while their displays were shot, they were still able to boot up fully and display perfectly on an external display. Oh, and the heat issues are almost exclusive to the Core Duo MBPs. They did get hot. However, my MBP has not heated up to higher than 60C, and that's only the AirPort card, because of heavy internet use. The bottom has stayed below 30C (for the Fahrenheit-inclined, that's 86F, and certainly not sterilizing-level heat). Again, I can only provide my experiences, which have been great. Sorry if I disappoint you because my Mac doesn't suck. I do agree that quality control has slipped somewhat, but in my experience I have gotten solid computers from them. You have to realize that many people are going to post about their problems on these forums, not about how happy they are with their computers (although some do).
What if I'm happy with my smaller, faster drive? What if I already have a blu-ray player? What if I want a blu-ray player but where I live, Blu-ray discs are about $35? I got a MBP with all the money I have, I'm not made of money. Not to mention the fact that that's a $200 option on the HPs I looked at. In addition (I know you hate the MBP, but I like its design) sometimes it looks better to have an integrated design that sacrifices some user-serviceability. The MacBook Air has a non-removable battery. That's a sacrifice that's made to make it sleek and thin. Those who get MBAs can't expect that kind of upgradeability. Likewise, the very thin MBP sacrifices some of the things you expect of it.
I don't know WHY you have this conviction that Windows smokes OS X in displaying Flash. Maybe your computer does, but I know that in my house, the two OS X computers have ZERO trouble with Flash, and the PC, while it displays it well, takes longer to load it. Again, maybe it's only my experience. Flash is instantaneous on my MBP. And the fans are silent, as always. We've had different experiences, I guess. Nothing to get worked up about, all we really need is someone to make a large scale benchmark.
Um, I'll come to my own conclusions, thanks. I use iMovie and GarageBand. They're perfect when I don't need an obscure, impenetrable interface to get something done.
Obviously, my family has screwed up. It can't possibly be that the computer isn't as good. That just isn't a possibility. Seriously, I understand that PowerPC is an outdated technology. I like the new Intel Core 2 platform. I just don't understand why two very similar processors (my MBP's 2.2GHz Santa Rosa and my dad's HP 2.13GHz Core 2 Duo, I believe it's Merom, but I'm not sure) perform so differently. I'm not a hardware expert, but if I understand correctly, SR is a newer technology and thus faster than Merom. That's understandable. What isn't understandable is that my MBP is faster and more stable with no having to probe around inside of it or update its drivers, whereas the PC is getting slower every day, with all drivers updated, and the hardware in perfect working condition (This computer, much as your observation is that it's broken, is in good condition, and if it were a hardware defect all of the BSOD's wouldn't have been when the computer was brand new. The computer is rock solid right now, if a little slow). I want the computer to be fast, responsive, and powerful. I've cut down the number of space used on the HDD from 250 to about 70GB, in order to reduce boot time (which still hovers at around 100 seconds, as compared to my MBP's 21 second boot time). I just can't bring myself to use the computer, because it doesn't perform as fast as it should. I don't ask Core 2 Quad or Xeon performance, but a 100 second boot time is unacceptable. After two reformats, and routine defragging, it's not fragmentation of the data. No matter what I do, I can't seem to get it to boot in anything resembling an appropriate time. That's a real disappointment for me. I'm not saying that OS X would make it run any faster, mind you. It could easily be just as slow. However, when it takes five times longer for computers with very similar specs to boot, there's a problem. You seem to be very well versed in hardware; I'd love it if you could tell me what's up with the PC.
Uh, actually, no, he said he upgraded it. He just said that a few posts up, again, and either you are intentionally ignoring it, or you honestly didn't see it twice. I'd like to believe that you are an honest person, so I'll assume you didn't see it. He said he bought it two years before Vista came out, i.e. late 2004, as an upgrade to his box.
Yes, a virus scanner. I'm the only one who has a decent knowledge of computers in my family, and it's easy for someone who isn't well versed in computers to open an e-mail, or download a self-executing file, without knowing what they're doing. I would know, my sister downloaded a malicious file once. Fortunately, the virus scanner caught it. The other thing, more important, is the adware and spyware that came packed onto the computer my dad bought. IIRC, Microsoft made a conscious effort to reduce the amount of trialware and adware that came on computers, and I applaud them for that effort. But I'm speaking from my experience.
Okay, I'm sorry. I didn't catch that. And yes, I do have a lot of processes running. I accept your point. You don't have to call me a liar. Seriously, people can be wrong without lying. I, even I, who have a ridiculously cynical point of view about the human race, understand that most people are honest, and when they say something that isn't true, assume that there must be some mistake, not that the person is a ruthless liar. I made a mistake.
Yeah, actually I do know that. And if you had read further than those eleven words, you would have seen that I said that Webkit is a faster, more secure, more standards compliant, but sometimes buggier.
I do use FF3 occasionally, and I always do when I use PC, but I think that right now at least Webkit is faster. Maybe I will switch over with Gecko 2, if it makes great strides. I've found that FF3 is a "heavier", slower app than Safari. Probably just perception, really, but WK feels snappier.
Insulting my DVD watching taste isn't a good way to convince me that PC's are inherently better. I routinely watch Blu-rays on my dad's PS3 on a great 47" display. The movie quality is great! I watch movies on DVD Player, too, and the quality is great! Just because I don't have a PC with a BD player doesn't mean that my DVD watching experience sucks.
Actually, I occasionally use Songbird. It's got a more attractive interface than iTunes, imo, and is great when I'm using it in the background as opposed to just letting it play while I lie down or something.
Okay. You know more about drivers than me. I've already said that I am by no means an expert. I know enough to do a few terminal tweaks - I don't even understand how drivers really work, I'll be honest. I get that they're the interface between the software and the hardware - but how you program an inanimate piece of silicon to do something like drive an LCD display is beyond me. However, I do know that a new driver, designed for the hardware already present, should not induce BSODs. And, like I said, the HW is in great condition, which leads me to believe that the driver caused the BSOD.
Sure, you can get an HP PC for $800 with a 1680x1050 screen. But don't expect it to have anything more than a Core 2 Duo 2GHz. More likely it'd have a Pentium DC or an AMD. It also means no blu-ray, no big hard drive, definitely not 4GB of RAM.
Already said it, I can't afford Blu-rays. My dad does buy them, though, and they look great...on a 47" screen.
Real-world situations...like me studying online for school while I AV chat with friends and run Songbird? I got 4.5 hours out of it yesterday doing just that. That's a real-world situation. DVD playback...well I guess that the MacBook must not do as well with that, because I had it on medium settings and it worked for four hours, without a hitch.
nVidia has acknowledged that there's a defect. These chips are having trouble in all the computers they're in. IIRC, Apple applied thermal paste badly, as well, but it's clear that there's an issue with the 8600Ms.
Truth be told, I don't really care about watching DVDs on it. When there's a great TV with Blu-ray downstairs, when I do want to watch a movie there's a better alternative. In addition, I don't watch a lot of movies to start with. I have a MBP because like I said (maybe in another thread, I can't remember), my sight is poor and I feel more comfortable with the larger screen.
Blech. Paris Hilton.
Alright. You like your HP's style better, that's okay. However, I do happen to like that the MBP has a large screen but remains very portable (like 2.4kg, I think?), I like that it fits the minimalist design of my room, and I like that it runs the OS I prefer.
Your MB gets to 88c!? Ouch! I feel sorry for you - my MBP is just about at 62-64 under heavy load. Seriously, there's something wrong inside your MB.
Yeah, okay, I got pirated software from Apple. Already gone over this.
And I'm a liar, of course. And the HP PC has hardware issues, even though it's running just great right now. Stuff doesn't start out bad then fix itself.
Ookay, well MY G5 hasn't had a single issue. So I guess I'm just lucky.
A $1400 octo-core PC that will beat the Mac Pro? Show me one. (Aren't the Quad Xeons used by the Mac Pro like $500 each, anyway?)
For REAL data storage, you're going to want a several-terabyte RAID anyway, with multiple backups for every important file, which you can do on either Windows or OS X, or preferably a headless server variant of Linux/UNIX. But unless you're backing up credit card numbers, bank account numbers, etc., Time Machine is great as a redundant backup utility that you don't even have to think about. If you're storing important information, you should probably have it on one of those paranoid-caliber safety flash drives anyway. Besides, if you have FileVault turned on, you can back that up, giving you an encrypted copy of your home folder. That should be perfectly sufficient for what you want, since you can put anything you want in your home folder.
Okay...good luck with your HP too.
Your hyperbole just makes it harder to believe every word you say, you know. I wish I could find a computer this year and one next year, both of which are faster than this computer, and both of which together will cost less than $1400. I can definitely buy a good solid computer for $700, but it simply won't have the features or the build quality of the MBP I have.
I'm glad you're happy with the computer you have. But don't complain because I'm happier with the one I have. Seriously, I'm good.
Actually, no, my G4 handled Flash just fine, thanks. I bought it from eBay, and I got what I asked for - an inexpensive computer that handled the tasks I needed it to. Not everyone needs maximum performance all the time, and it did what I wanted it to. Don't tell me that it's a bad thing because it's not up to your standards. I didn't buy it to have a "new" computer. I bought it because it was all I could afford, and because I was interested in OS X. That computer was the best computer I have ever had because it introduced me to the world of OS X. I had had the G5 before that, but it was solely a music production computer, and it was not connected to the internet, thus making it useless for the things I needed it to do. So, in essence, the first Mac I used was the G4/700, and you can call it slow all you want, because, to be fair, it didn't scream. But it ran Tiger much better than I would expect it to.
Pirated software, of course. Because Apple pirates software and sends the computer to me with the copies installed. Why didn't I think of that?
For $1450 my dad got a good desktop HP PC that performed and still does perform well as long as no one tried to play games on it. For a PC designed to run games, with a solid nVidia GeForce 7300 card, it's not normal for it to overheat and BSOD when playing world of warcraft. I shouldn't have to screw with the insides of the computer to get it to do things it's designed to do. Don't tell me I'm not treating it well, because my dad has ensured that all the drivers are up to date. So sorry to burst your bubble, but when my dad "went over to HP" he had a pretty bad experience. Oh, and I just went to HP.com to configure a laptop as close as I could to what you were describing, and the closest price I got was about $1862, before $100 rebate. That's with no productivity software, no warranty, no anti-virus, basically just Vista 64-bit installed. Which basically leaves it down to preferences. You prefer Windows, I prefer OS X. That's fine. But that computer isn't $550 cheaper than the base-config MacBook Pro. $200, maybe, but I'd frankly rather have the features that come with OS X. Again, it's a preference. No inherent superiority.
Okay, I'll concede that. I personally think the MacBook Pro is beautiful, but that's a valid statement. Point taken. (That Paris Hilton statement is a cheap shot though
)HOWEVER, you're making a blanket statement. The aluminum case is certainly not "weak". It helps keep it cool, and, while it will show dents from improper usage, it is a very sturdy design in the sense that it will keep the internals safe. I've read about MBPs falling out of moving cars, and while their displays were shot, they were still able to boot up fully and display perfectly on an external display. Oh, and the heat issues are almost exclusive to the Core Duo MBPs. They did get hot. However, my MBP has not heated up to higher than 60C, and that's only the AirPort card, because of heavy internet use. The bottom has stayed below 30C (for the Fahrenheit-inclined, that's 86F, and certainly not sterilizing-level heat). Again, I can only provide my experiences, which have been great. Sorry if I disappoint you because my Mac doesn't suck. I do agree that quality control has slipped somewhat, but in my experience I have gotten solid computers from them. You have to realize that many people are going to post about their problems on these forums, not about how happy they are with their computers (although some do).
What if I'm happy with my smaller, faster drive? What if I already have a blu-ray player? What if I want a blu-ray player but where I live, Blu-ray discs are about $35? I got a MBP with all the money I have, I'm not made of money. Not to mention the fact that that's a $200 option on the HPs I looked at. In addition (I know you hate the MBP, but I like its design) sometimes it looks better to have an integrated design that sacrifices some user-serviceability. The MacBook Air has a non-removable battery. That's a sacrifice that's made to make it sleek and thin. Those who get MBAs can't expect that kind of upgradeability. Likewise, the very thin MBP sacrifices some of the things you expect of it.
I don't know WHY you have this conviction that Windows smokes OS X in displaying Flash. Maybe your computer does, but I know that in my house, the two OS X computers have ZERO trouble with Flash, and the PC, while it displays it well, takes longer to load it. Again, maybe it's only my experience. Flash is instantaneous on my MBP. And the fans are silent, as always. We've had different experiences, I guess. Nothing to get worked up about, all we really need is someone to make a large scale benchmark.
Um, I'll come to my own conclusions, thanks. I use iMovie and GarageBand. They're perfect when I don't need an obscure, impenetrable interface to get something done.
Obviously, my family has screwed up. It can't possibly be that the computer isn't as good. That just isn't a possibility. Seriously, I understand that PowerPC is an outdated technology. I like the new Intel Core 2 platform. I just don't understand why two very similar processors (my MBP's 2.2GHz Santa Rosa and my dad's HP 2.13GHz Core 2 Duo, I believe it's Merom, but I'm not sure) perform so differently. I'm not a hardware expert, but if I understand correctly, SR is a newer technology and thus faster than Merom. That's understandable. What isn't understandable is that my MBP is faster and more stable with no having to probe around inside of it or update its drivers, whereas the PC is getting slower every day, with all drivers updated, and the hardware in perfect working condition (This computer, much as your observation is that it's broken, is in good condition, and if it were a hardware defect all of the BSOD's wouldn't have been when the computer was brand new. The computer is rock solid right now, if a little slow). I want the computer to be fast, responsive, and powerful. I've cut down the number of space used on the HDD from 250 to about 70GB, in order to reduce boot time (which still hovers at around 100 seconds, as compared to my MBP's 21 second boot time). I just can't bring myself to use the computer, because it doesn't perform as fast as it should. I don't ask Core 2 Quad or Xeon performance, but a 100 second boot time is unacceptable. After two reformats, and routine defragging, it's not fragmentation of the data. No matter what I do, I can't seem to get it to boot in anything resembling an appropriate time. That's a real disappointment for me. I'm not saying that OS X would make it run any faster, mind you. It could easily be just as slow. However, when it takes five times longer for computers with very similar specs to boot, there's a problem. You seem to be very well versed in hardware; I'd love it if you could tell me what's up with the PC.
Uh, actually, no, he said he upgraded it. He just said that a few posts up, again, and either you are intentionally ignoring it, or you honestly didn't see it twice. I'd like to believe that you are an honest person, so I'll assume you didn't see it. He said he bought it two years before Vista came out, i.e. late 2004, as an upgrade to his box.
Yes, a virus scanner. I'm the only one who has a decent knowledge of computers in my family, and it's easy for someone who isn't well versed in computers to open an e-mail, or download a self-executing file, without knowing what they're doing. I would know, my sister downloaded a malicious file once. Fortunately, the virus scanner caught it. The other thing, more important, is the adware and spyware that came packed onto the computer my dad bought. IIRC, Microsoft made a conscious effort to reduce the amount of trialware and adware that came on computers, and I applaud them for that effort. But I'm speaking from my experience.
Okay, I'm sorry. I didn't catch that. And yes, I do have a lot of processes running. I accept your point. You don't have to call me a liar. Seriously, people can be wrong without lying. I, even I, who have a ridiculously cynical point of view about the human race, understand that most people are honest, and when they say something that isn't true, assume that there must be some mistake, not that the person is a ruthless liar. I made a mistake.
Yeah, actually I do know that. And if you had read further than those eleven words, you would have seen that I said that Webkit is a faster, more secure, more standards compliant, but sometimes buggier.
I do use FF3 occasionally, and I always do when I use PC, but I think that right now at least Webkit is faster. Maybe I will switch over with Gecko 2, if it makes great strides. I've found that FF3 is a "heavier", slower app than Safari. Probably just perception, really, but WK feels snappier.
Insulting my DVD watching taste isn't a good way to convince me that PC's are inherently better. I routinely watch Blu-rays on my dad's PS3 on a great 47" display. The movie quality is great! I watch movies on DVD Player, too, and the quality is great! Just because I don't have a PC with a BD player doesn't mean that my DVD watching experience sucks.
Actually, I occasionally use Songbird. It's got a more attractive interface than iTunes, imo, and is great when I'm using it in the background as opposed to just letting it play while I lie down or something.
Okay. You know more about drivers than me. I've already said that I am by no means an expert. I know enough to do a few terminal tweaks - I don't even understand how drivers really work, I'll be honest. I get that they're the interface between the software and the hardware - but how you program an inanimate piece of silicon to do something like drive an LCD display is beyond me. However, I do know that a new driver, designed for the hardware already present, should not induce BSODs. And, like I said, the HW is in great condition, which leads me to believe that the driver caused the BSOD.
Sure, you can get an HP PC for $800 with a 1680x1050 screen. But don't expect it to have anything more than a Core 2 Duo 2GHz. More likely it'd have a Pentium DC or an AMD. It also means no blu-ray, no big hard drive, definitely not 4GB of RAM.
Already said it, I can't afford Blu-rays. My dad does buy them, though, and they look great...on a 47" screen.
Real-world situations...like me studying online for school while I AV chat with friends and run Songbird? I got 4.5 hours out of it yesterday doing just that. That's a real-world situation. DVD playback...well I guess that the MacBook must not do as well with that, because I had it on medium settings and it worked for four hours, without a hitch.
nVidia has acknowledged that there's a defect. These chips are having trouble in all the computers they're in. IIRC, Apple applied thermal paste badly, as well, but it's clear that there's an issue with the 8600Ms.
Truth be told, I don't really care about watching DVDs on it. When there's a great TV with Blu-ray downstairs, when I do want to watch a movie there's a better alternative. In addition, I don't watch a lot of movies to start with. I have a MBP because like I said (maybe in another thread, I can't remember), my sight is poor and I feel more comfortable with the larger screen.
Blech. Paris Hilton.
Alright. You like your HP's style better, that's okay. However, I do happen to like that the MBP has a large screen but remains very portable (like 2.4kg, I think?), I like that it fits the minimalist design of my room, and I like that it runs the OS I prefer.
Your MB gets to 88c!?
Ouch! I feel sorry for you - my MBP is just about at 62-64 under heavy load. Seriously, there's something wrong inside your MB.Yeah, okay, I got pirated software from Apple. Already gone over this.
And I'm a liar, of course. And the HP PC has hardware issues, even though it's running just great right now. Stuff doesn't start out bad then fix itself.
Ookay, well MY G5 hasn't had a single issue. So I guess I'm just lucky.
A $1400 octo-core PC that will beat the Mac Pro? Show me one. (Aren't the Quad Xeons used by the Mac Pro like $500 each, anyway?)
For REAL data storage, you're going to want a several-terabyte RAID anyway, with multiple backups for every important file, which you can do on either Windows or OS X, or preferably a headless server variant of Linux/UNIX. But unless you're backing up credit card numbers, bank account numbers, etc., Time Machine is great as a redundant backup utility that you don't even have to think about. If you're storing important information, you should probably have it on one of those paranoid-caliber safety flash drives anyway. Besides, if you have FileVault turned on, you can back that up, giving you an encrypted copy of your home folder. That should be perfectly sufficient for what you want, since you can put anything you want in your home folder.
Okay...good luck with your HP too.
Your hyperbole just makes it harder to believe every word you say, you know. I wish I could find a computer this year and one next year, both of which are faster than this computer, and both of which together will cost less than $1400. I can definitely buy a good solid computer for $700, but it simply won't have the features or the build quality of the MBP I have.
I'm glad you're happy with the computer you have. But don't complain because I'm happier with the one I have. Seriously, I'm good.
i mean, is anyone else's parent an @$$ hole??
