My Parents Hate Apple

[mosx]

Sure you can order a sub $500 desktop at Dell or others, but when comparing prices of Macs and PCs with similar specifications, Apple is right on par. You get what you pay for.

That is absolutely untrue.

I have the middle MacBook, $1406 after taxes here in California. And I have an HP that was around $950.

At the time I received this MacBook, it had a 2.16GHz C2D, 1GB of RAM, 120GB HDD, SuperDrive, Intel GMA 950. My HP showed up a couple of weeks later. It had a 2GHz C2D (Santa Rosa), 2GB of RAM, GeForce 8400M GS, TV tuner, fingerprint reader, memory card reader, full size ExpressCard slot, HDCP certified HDMI output, 15.4" screen, 160GB HDD, etc.

You literally get twice the computer for half the price when you compare Macs to PCs. A $700 HP running AMD's Puma platform will run circles around the MacBook when it comes to gaming, 3D apps and video quality. Now you can get PCs with dedicated GPUs that are as much as 4x faster than the 8600M GT in the MBP, blu-ray readers, 1680x1050 15.4" screens, etc. for LESS than the cost of the middle MacBook, and without blu-ray, less than the cost of the entry level MacBook.

Anyway, people mentioned that you "pay for quality" with the Mac. Thats certainly not true.

My first MacBook, bought in March of '07, had a bum SuperDrive out of the box. But I couldn't send it in or take it back because I couldn't be without a computer even for one day. So I had to live with that for months. It could read DVDs and CDs just fine, but it couldn't write discs worth a damn.

When I sent it out to Apple (called them after the first 90 days was up, lucky they didn't ask for a CC number right off like they're supposed to) which contracts their repairs to Flextronics. It came back and the SuperDrive wasn't fixed. But the case that had yellowed from heat had been replaced and scratched to all hell. So out it went again. This time they replaced the case again, scratched it again, and performed a "re-alignment" on my SuperDrive that left it unable to read discs.

At that point Apple replaced my MacBook.

My second MacBook's top case, the wrist rest area, started to lift and come apart and the battery was starting to warp. Out it went again. It came back predictably scratched up and the case was soft in many areas it shouldn't have been, but some people think is normal. So it was sent out again and finally fixed right, surprisingly.

Then theres OS X. People talk about how you don't get viruses or spyware with OS X. Well, you don't with Windows either as long as you don't do things you shouldn't be doing anyway. XP SP2 and SP3 make it next to impossible for a website to install and run code without the users knowledge, and FF takes that ability away completely. In fact, the last major security issue for Windows was caused by Safari! In Vista, UAC has been proven to capture all current malware of all forms. UAC only shows up as often as a password prompt in OS X, so its not a problem at all like Apple and the fans try to make it out to be.

Anyway, with OS X you have a whole new slew of issues. Kernel panics, grey screens of death, permissions needing repaired, and my personal favorite, full system lockups. With both Tiger and Leopard on both of my Macs, I've had random system lockups that have not been repeatable and Windows running in Boot Camp has been completely immune to. I once had it lock up trying to empty the trash. Another time I clicked "Burn" in a "Burn Folder" and the system locked up. Recently I've had the system lockup while browsing in Safari then a couple of weeks later in Firefox. I had the system lockup during a video call in Skype.

All while Vista hangs out on a partition and runs 100% rock solid.

Theres also things Windows does that OS X does not, like system wide hardware acceleration for video playback. This means that a $599 HP with a Radeon 3200 IGP will be able to play blu-ray discs while even the 17" MacBook Pro with 1920x1200 screen for $2900 cannot because OS X doesn't take advantage of the GPU AND Apple did NOT include HDCP certification for that GeForce.

OP, get a PC. For the same cost as that middle MacBook with a DVD writer, you can get a PC that will play games better than a PS3 or Xbox360, you'll get high definition movies, and you'll get more powerful hardware than what is available as of this typing in ANY Apple notebook. Not a day goes by that I don't regret buying my MacBook. It was the most expensive mistake I have ever made and I will not buy another MacBook until Apple realizes their systems are double the price for half the hardware.

I do love my iPhone and iPods though.

 

[dadsgravy]

Wow! well I'm sure you had some cosmetic issues, but the rest sounds like you don't know how to use a mac, and are completely unwilling to except any responsibility on your part.

There's tons of macs out there that run very well. After two or three macs, It's all you and your ignorance. Grey screen, OS locking up, kernel panics, that's all you or something you did.

Mine runs fine and I'm sure millions of others would say the same.

Seriously, you're the last person that should be giving advice about Apple products. You know nothing about them.

 

[mosx]

Wow! well I'm sure you had some cosmetic issues, but the rest sounds like you don't know how to use a mac, and are completely unwilling to except any responsibility on your part.

There's tons of macs out there that run very well. After two or three macs, It's all you and your ignorance. Grey screen, OS locking up, kernel panics, that's all you or something you did.

Mine runs fine and I'm sure millions of others would say the same.

Seriously, you're the last person that should be giving advice about Apple products. You know nothing about them.

See, this is one of those moments where you question why you bought a mac because you see how the Apple fanboys treat those who have real problems with Macs.

You have a real problem and somehow its not OS X's fault or the hardwares fault. Not at all. Nothing is EVER wrong with a Mac. Its ALWAYS the fault of the user. Regardless.

This "holier than thou" attitude and general arrogance of the Apple fanboys will keep Apple from ever becoming number 2 or even number 1 or even reaching halfway to number 2. People just won't want to be a part of a community where those who have legitimate problems get treated like crap by the holier than thou fanboys.

Anyway, since you claim all of those problems were MY fault, let me ask you how.

My first MacBook's DVD writer could not properly write DVDs at any speed above 2x, falling well short of the 6x (yes 6x was the top speed of that first MacBook) that it was advertised as being capable of.

Any brand and manufacturer of media (yes brand doesn't mean squat when it comes to who actually manufactures a disc) would fail with read errors on verification (and just all around usage) if I choose a speed above 2x. What the drive would do is burn the first 15% of the disc at 2x then spin up to full speed and burn the rest. You could physically hear it spin the disc at the different speeds.

Now, tell me "dadsgravy", how is THAT my fault?

My first crash in OS X was when it crashed while emptying the trash. My friend and I had been exchanging stupid pictures that we had found on the internet. Various photoshops, and "fail" type pictures. So I held the command key, clicked the ones I wanted to delete, then right clicked and sent them all to the trash in one big swoop. Then I clicked "Finder" then "Empty Trash" and OS X locked up.

How is that my fault?

My second crash was the crash when I went to burn a disc. I made a burn folder, named it, dragged and dropped everything to it that I wanted to burn. Opened it up, clicked "Burn" to get the prompt to insert a disc. But instead of getting the prompt, the system locked up.

How is that my fault?

Lets fast forward to recent times. A couple of weeks ago I was video chatting in Skype much the same way I have on Windows for years, and the same way I had in OS X for months. Using the same USB headset and the iSight obviously, that I had been using for months. In the middle of my friend talking the system just flat out locked up. I was doing nothing. Skype was the only open piece of software.

How is that my fault?

The most recent time was a week ago to the day. I was looking at screenshots of Gears of War 2 on gamespot.com in Safari. I had looked through a few. I clicked on the next screenshot and the system locked up.

How is that my fault?

I've never had kernel panics (generally caused by hardware issues), or grey screens of death (usually caused by updates gone bad) or had to repair disk permissions (those seem to be a random occurrence). I've just had those very random freezes that I have never been able to duplicate. And as you can see, none of them are my fault or due to a supposed (and falsely accused of) lack of knowledge.

All that while Windows XP and Vista have run 100% rock solid when installed via Boot Camp.

In conclusion, it is clearly YOU who does not know what they are speaking about. So stay out of it and keep quiet.

 

[mosx]

I also want to add how HOT the MacBooks get!

I'm encoding some video right now.

My processor (2.16GHz C2D Merom on the Napa platform) is cooking at 87c!

By comparison, my HP encoding video (both multi-threaded encoders) peaks at 61c. Thats a 2GHz C2D, Merom core but Santa Rosa platform.

If I put my finger on the hinge of the screen it actually HURTS!

Crazy.

 

[jforger]

Being a parent in a similar situation myself, let me try to add a different perspective to the conversation for the OP to consider. My daughter just graduated from high school and we are in the process of getting her a laptop for school. Like the OP, she is determined that she wants a Macbook even though I have come to the conclusion that a Dell PC would be a better choice for her for now.

My daughter's comments resemble many comments I have seen in this thread - my parents hate Macs, my parents love Dell, their idiot repairman friend convinced them, etc etc etc. This couldn't be further from the truth, although I think she really believes it is the case.

I have been a long time PC user, although I have used Macs many many years ago. I am up to date on PC/Windows, but needed to spend dozens and dozens of hours researching Macs (thus the reason I am on this forum). I even made two separate trips to the Apple store to better understand the products, benefits, and level of support available. I actually really liked the new macbooks and the new Mac OS and can understand why they are very popular.

I think both systems have their benefits and drawbacks, and I wont disagree that the Mac is easier to use and more intuitive. Having said that, she is very fluent on PCs, as that is all she has ever used. The major reasons she wants a macbook is 1) the Apple marketing machine and 2) her positive experience with her ipod.

The major criteria for my laptop decision is the fact the her University is PC-centric, and they fully support PC/Windows in their environment (networking, printing, file sharing, online learning, class plug-ins etc). Their helpdesk is PC only. They do have an official statement allowing Macs on to be used on their network, however they also clearly state that although the Mac should work on the network and should run most of the tools, the student is on their own should something not work and no support from the school will be available. (And yes, I am aware of the bootcamp option, however I dont want to deal with the extra cost/complexity of the dual OS option.)

I priced out roughly equivalent systems and would need to spend about $600 more for the macbook than a slightly better speced Dell (This includes educational discounts, extended warranty and MS Office that I would need to get for the Mac that I dont need for the PC because she can use one of my licneses). Also, the Mac did include an Ipod which the PC didnt.

In the end, my wife and I concluded that the Dell would be the better option for her at this time due to the university support and warranty coverage. When she has a problems with it (and she will have problems with either the Mac or PC at some point over the next 4 years) she has more options available with the Dell. The Dell warranty includes 4 year on site h/w support, vs 3 yr support for the macbook which has to either be sent back to Apple or returned to the nearest Apple store (3 hrs from her school). The school help desk, the dell 24x7 support (telephone, email, or their new remote log-in capability) or me (last resort) are also available for s/w and config issues vs the apple 800 number for the mac.

The point of this post is to help you understand that sometimes parents have different reasons, rationale, criteria, etc that you may not fully appreciate. In my case, my daughter will never understand or appreciate the time I put into this in ordeal to try to keep her happy with a macbook. She will just continue to make comments like my parents hate macs, they think PCs are great. etc etc. In the end, I hope it is the right choice even though she is not thrilled at the moment.

Good luck with your new laptop, whichever system it turns out to be.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Being a parent in a similar situation myself, let me try to add a different perspective to the conversation for the OP to consider. My daughter just graduated from high school and we are in the process of getting her a laptop for school. Like the OP, she is determined that she wants a Macbook even though I have come to the conclusion that a Dell PC would be a better choice for her for now.

My daughter's comments resemble many comments I have seen in this thread - my parents hate Macs, my parents love Dell, their idiot repairman friend convinced them, etc etc etc. This couldn't be further from the truth, although I think she really believes it is the case.

I have been a long time PC user, although I have used Macs many many years ago. I am up to date on PC/Windows, but needed to spend dozens and dozens of hours researching Macs (thus the reason I am on this forum). I even made two separate trips to the Apple store to better understand the products, benefits, and level of support available. I actually really liked the new macbooks and the new Mac OS and can understand why they are very popular.

I think both systems have their benefits and drawbacks, and I wont disagree that the Mac is easier to use and more intuitive. Having said that, she is very fluent on PCs, as that is all she has ever used. The major reasons she wants a macbook is 1) the Apple marketing machine and 2) her positive experience with her ipod.

The major criteria for my laptop decision is the fact the her University is PC-centric, and they fully support PC/Windows in their environment (networking, printing, file sharing, online learning, class plug-ins etc). Their helpdesk is PC only. They do have an official statement allowing Macs on to be used on their network, however they also clearly state that although the Mac should work on the network and should run most of the tools, the student is on their own should something not work and no support from the school will be available. (And yes, I am aware of the bootcamp option, however I dont want to deal with the extra cost/complexity of the dual OS option.)

I priced out roughly equivalent systems and would need to spend about $600 more for the macbook than a slightly better speced Dell (This includes educational discounts, extended warranty and MS Office that I would need to get for the Mac that I dont need for the PC because she can use one of my licneses). Also, the Mac did include an Ipod which the PC didnt.

In the end, my wife and I concluded that the Dell would be the better option for her at this time due to the university support and warranty coverage. When she has a problems with it (and she will have problems with either the Mac or PC at some point over the next 4 years) she has more options available with the Dell. The Dell warranty includes 4 year on site h/w support, vs 3 yr support for the macbook which has to either be sent back to Apple or returned to the nearest Apple store (3 hrs from her school). The school help desk, the dell 24x7 support (telephone, email, or their new remote log-in capability) or me (last resort) are also available for s/w and config issues vs the apple 800 number for the mac.

The point of this post is to help you understand that sometimes parents have different reasons, rationale, criteria, etc that you may not fully appreciate. In my case, my daughter will never understand or appreciate the time I put into this in ordeal to try to keep her happy with a macbook. She will just continue to make comments like my parents hate macs, they think PCs are great. etc etc. In the end, I hope it is the right choice even though she is not thrilled at the moment.

Good luck with your new laptop, whichever system it turns out to be.

So what it comes down to is since you're PC savvy, you think you know what's best and don't trust your daughter to make her own decisions about something you know comparatively nothing about.

Do you expect her to call you up for advice before she goes partying at college too? No... and you need to trust her that she'll make smart decisions.

Sorry for making it so personal, but it seems to me like you decided that because they cost more and therefore weren't good for her, and then called your decision "smart" and "for her own good".

 

[Tallest Skil]

I priced out roughly equivalent systems and would need to spend about $600 more for the macbook than a slightly better speced Dell (This includes educational discounts, extended warranty and MS Office that I would need to get for the Mac that I dont need for the PC because she can use one of my licneses). Also, the Mac did include an Ipod which the PC didnt.

The point of this post is to help you understand that sometimes parents have different reasons, rationale, criteria, etc that you may not fully appreciate. In my case, my daughter will never understand or appreciate the time I put into this in ordeal to try to keep her happy with a macbook. She will just continue to make comments like my parents hate macs, they think PCs are great. etc etc. In the end, I hope it is the right choice even though she is not thrilled at the moment.

OS X equals permanently better speced.

Different reasons? Like money. She'll never understand why her parents were too cheap to buy a Mac for her.

I think that it will be the right choice in the end. She'll never forgive you for making her go through the living hell that is Vista and Windows Se7en for four years, and will never purchase another PC again nor allow her children to buy PCs.

More Mac marketshare when it's all said and done.

 

[dadsgravy]

See, this is one of those moments where you question why you bought a mac because you see how the Apple fanboys treat those who have real problems with Macs.

You have a real problem and somehow its not OS X's fault or the hardwares fault. Not at all. Nothing is EVER wrong with a Mac. Its ALWAYS the fault of the user. Regardless.

This "holier than thou" attitude and general arrogance of the Apple fanboys will keep Apple from ever becoming number 2 or even number 1 or even reaching halfway to number 2. People just won't want to be a part of a community where those who have legitimate problems get treated like crap by the holier than thou fanboys.

Anyway, since you claim all of those problems were MY fault, let me ask you how.

My first MacBook's DVD writer could not properly write DVDs at any speed above 2x, falling well short of the 6x (yes 6x was the top speed of that first MacBook) that it was advertised as being capable of.

Any brand and manufacturer of media (yes brand doesn't mean squat when it comes to who actually manufactures a disc) would fail with read errors on verification (and just all around usage) if I choose a speed above 2x. What the drive would do is burn the first 15% of the disc at 2x then spin up to full speed and burn the rest. You could physically hear it spin the disc at the different speeds.

Now, tell me "dadsgravy", how is THAT my fault?

My first crash in OS X was when it crashed while emptying the trash. My friend and I had been exchanging stupid pictures that we had found on the internet. Various photoshops, and "fail" type pictures. So I held the command key, clicked the ones I wanted to delete, then right clicked and sent them all to the trash in one big swoop. Then I clicked "Finder" then "Empty Trash" and OS X locked up.

How is that my fault?

My second crash was the crash when I went to burn a disc. I made a burn folder, named it, dragged and dropped everything to it that I wanted to burn. Opened it up, clicked "Burn" to get the prompt to insert a disc. But instead of getting the prompt, the system locked up.

How is that my fault?

Lets fast forward to recent times. A couple of weeks ago I was video chatting in Skype much the same way I have on Windows for years, and the same way I had in OS X for months. Using the same USB headset and the iSight obviously, that I had been using for months. In the middle of my friend talking the system just flat out locked up. I was doing nothing. Skype was the only open piece of software.

How is that my fault?

The most recent time was a week ago to the day. I was looking at screenshots of Gears of War 2 on gamespot.com in Safari. I had looked through a few. I clicked on the next screenshot and the system locked up.

How is that my fault?

I've never had kernel panics (generally caused by hardware issues), or grey screens of death (usually caused by updates gone bad) or had to repair disk permissions (those seem to be a random occurrence). I've just had those very random freezes that I have never been able to duplicate. And as you can see, none of them are my fault or due to a supposed (and falsely accused of) lack of knowledge.

All that while Windows XP and Vista have run 100% rock solid when installed via Boot Camp.

In conclusion, it is clearly YOU who does not know what they are speaking about. So stay out of it and keep quiet.

Hey, that's a long post about nothing, so you must have a point in there somewhere.

And yeah, it's all you. You and your labeling and your ignorant ideology that windows gives you stability and the righteousness to to declare that you know something about computers, when you clearly don't.

I've been using various macs for 6 years now without a problem, so honestly, that makes you pretty os x dumb. I can fix my stuff, what's your problem?

I've done tech support for Apple, and what we would do to people like you, was to just send your "supposed" defective macbook back to you without a repair until you gave up or went back to windows. People like you are never happy and are always looking to prove that Apple is inferior.

You can tell from your list of problems that you are a troll, a hypochondriac, and an intellectually inferior windows zealot.

I've got a plush bank account, a couple of cases of wine, and nothing better to do than hijack this post and turn it ugly.

 

[stone315]

My first MacBook, bought in March of '07, had a bum SuperDrive out of the box. But I couldn't send it in or take it back because I couldn't be without a computer even for one day. So I had to live with that for months.

that is not apple's fault. granted, they sometimes have component flaws but they're not widespread and they'll fix them. however it is your responsibility to call upon them to do it, not to complain when you did nothing for months. and apple replaced your macbook. REPLACED. dell and hp would never do that.

Now, tell me "dadsgravy", how is THAT my fault?

How is that my fault?

How is that my fault?

How is that my fault?

How is that my fault?

And as you can see, none of them are my fault or due to a supposed (and falsely accused of) lack of knowledge.

you could have accessed or downloaded something that didn't affect you until later. which therefore would have been your fault.

My friend and I had been exchanging stupid pictures that we had found on the internet.

imho, visiting random websites and opening up random pictures doesn't sound like the healthiest idea for a computer.

All that while Windows XP and Vista have run 100% rock solid when installed via Boot Camp.

well that could have something to do with it... anyways if you want to get on the topic of issues you've had while doing innocent tasks, try mine.
running windows 98 either last year or the year before. (i know, my parents are technologically amish.) open up internet explorer. BAM blank hard drive.
running xp two weeks ago. click on firefox icon. BAM blank hard drive. and i mean wiped. reverted back to the black DOS screen telling me i had an invalid boot diskette. both times. so i wouldn't be extolling the virtues of windows without taking into consideration the difficulties and trouble it's given many people. i'm just waiting for the new hp my parents bought to crash...
meanwhile i know zero people who've had stability issues with os x, but several who have had stability issues of ranging degrees of severity with various versions of windows.
i would say that the experience of one person does not constitute a trend, especially since it stands in such stark contrast to the good experiences of many users on these forums. we do appreciate your viewpoint, but i would appreciate it if you voiced it with a little less anger and emotion. the venom does not contribute to the discussion, nor is it effective in limiting the amount of childish arguing that clogs up these threads.

Hey, that's a long post about nothing, so you must have a point in there somewhere.

And yeah, it's all you. You and your labeling and your ignorant ideology that windows gives you stability and the righteousness to to declare that you know something about computers, when you clearly don't.

I've been using various macs for 6 years now without a problem, so honestly, that makes you pretty os x dumb. I can fix my stuff, what's your problem?

I've done tech support for Apple, and what we would do to people like you, was to just send your "supposed" defective macbook back to you without a repair until you gave up or went back to windows. People like you are never happy and are always looking to prove that Apple is inferior.

You can tell from your list of problems that you are a troll, a hypochondriac, and an intellectually inferior windows zealot.

this is exactly what i was referring to when i was asking mosx to refrain from adding needless venom to his posts. i agree with your sentiments about os x, however, degrading and insulting comments are NOT the best way to persuade others to convert.

I've got a plush bank account, a couple of cases of wine, and nothing better to do than hijack this post and turn it ugly.

please don't. this thread was started as an appeal for help, not as a place for the two of you to rant about the intellectual inferiorities of the other.


and to the op, i'd just show them all the advice on this thread and these forums. if you have sound and logical reasons, you should be able to persuade them. be civil and polite about it, and explain to them exactly why you feel a mac is better for you.

 

[jforger]

So what it comes down to is since you're PC savvy, you think you know what's best and don't trust your daughter to make her own decisions about something you know comparatively nothing about.

Not quite. I obviously did a poor job explaining my rationale. She has never used a Mac so she really knows much less about Macs than I do. (Based on the amount of research I have done and my past experience, I actually think they are pretty nice.) Plus, she has never used a personal PC is a structured environment (I have). The reason for the PC over Mac is the level of support available to her for the next 4 years at college.

The main factor driving the decision is long term support at a university several hours away that is clearly PC-centric. Here is a review of the support and warranty options when she has trouble:

Duration:
Dell:4 years
Macbook: 3 years

H/W
Dell: Next day on-site for 4 years
Macbook: Apple store (3 hrs away from school) or mail to Apple

S/W
Dell: University help desk, Dell 24x7 email/phone, Dell Remote connect to remotely log in, or me (as a last resort)
Mac: Email/phone

Classwork tools:
Dell: Everything guaranteed to work
Mac: Most things should work, but some may not

Again, the few hundred dollar difference in price (about $150 per year for the next 4 years) is NOT the issue. If her school fully supported the Macbook I would have no issues. After all, this is a tool for her schoolwork. Her problems become my problems to resolve, so when she has problems sometime in the next 4 years I want to make sure there are quick resolution options in place.

Anyways, the point of my comments were to point out that sometimes there is some rationale criteria that comes into the decision process in addition to personal preference.

 

[Cory5412]

Hey. Long-time Mac user, first-time poster. (here, anyway.)

I work tech support for students at a mid-sized university, and I think it's important to understand what your student's school's tech support is and is not capable of.

Around here, we're actually forbidden from working on hardware, like opening a machine and reseating memory that has come loose, or replacing a bad mini-PCI wireless card. The reason? "Anti-competitiveness" policies from the board of regents for our state system.

The other thing about the fine folks working the helpdesk at any given university is that they really do want to help out in any way they can. The reason most helpdesks say they can't support Macs very well is because not many of their staff members have had the time or money to buy a mac to get to know how to use it. It's not hard at all to tell that you're talking to someone who has never used a Mac, so most people (at least here) don't even try.

On the topic of warranties, yes it's good to get them, and yes, for the cost, Dell does give you the option of one extra year, but in the long run, that may or may not be worthwhile depending on what the machine is going to be used for. A general-purpose machine for an English or History major will be just fine for the next five years. I've got laptops (Macs and PCs) from 2000 that would do all of my general-ed schoolwork just fine.

But for a photography or electronic media major, a four year warranty is a waste, when any given LCD screen won't stay color-calibrated after three years anyway, and I know a lot of people in high end compute- and display-intensive majors who replace their machines on a fairly regular basis, because of that.

Anyway... that was a bit of a tangent. As far as my particular university is concerned, we really don't care what you bring as a computer, and we do actually prepare for the possibility that you aren't bringing any computer at all. We run a 24-hour lab with about 120 available machines, and we have a "virtual lab" terminal server machine that gives people acces to Microsoft Office, Visual Studio, DreamWeaver, a few statistics packages, and a bunch of other things that are used in courses here.

So there's no reason for any student (here at least) not to get exactly the computer they want, just because it's not "mainstream enough" at this institution.

And for anyone who is tasked with purchasing a PC laptop for whatever reason, my personal suggestion is the Dell Latitude series, and the Lenovo ThinkPad series. The reason I suggest those is because those are business-style laptops, and business-style laptops always tend to be very well-built. For my ThinkPad R61i, I didn't bother getting an extended warranty because of how well-built ThinkPads are, and because the thing was inexpensive enough that if it dies, I'm just going to be glad I backed up my data, then grab a new cheap well-built business-style laptop.

On the topic of a computer for middle school and/or high school (for the original poster), you really don't need a laptop. I consider myself to be an anomaly in that I did have a mobile computer for some of high school, and to tell you the truth, I would have been far happier with a desktop computer.

There's really no reason anymore to buy any specific computer for home with the intent of it being "compatible." Today, any machine with a usb port that supports flash drives is "compatible" enough for any home or educational user.

If I were seven to twelve years younger, and just heading toward middle school right now, and had saved as much money (congratulations, btw, it's very difficult to save any amount of money on your own at that age), then I would probably wait until August or September (or whenever Apple releases new models) and get myself what ever is next in the Mac Mini family.

That many years ago when I was in middle school, my main computer was a Mac Performa 578. The thing was a good six or seven years old, and had been completely outmoded in every way. But I had a modem hooked up to it for research, and a printer hooked up to it for the ocassional paper. The first half of my first year in high school, I had a Quadra 840av, and I did even use it for a presentation or two.

Honestly? I'm going into my third year at the university, and the only reason any of my computers are less than three years old is because I'm a photography major. It's not that much of a hardship to use a lab computer for coursework, but it's difficult to use the photo lab computers for much else than just that. If I were an English, History, or even CS/CIS major, I would probably be toolin' along on a Dell or IBM PIII or a Mac G3. They're fast enough for music, doing things online, and writing, which are the main things I see people doing with their computers.

 

[LondonGooner]

She'll never forgive you for making her go through the living hell that is Vista and Windows Se7en for four years.

Are you insane? Perspective people...no rational human being is going to be bitter because thier parents donate them a Dell. Fanboyism at its worst.

 

[drs68]

Being a parent in a similar situation myself, let me try to add a different perspective to the conversation for the OP to consider. My daughter just graduated from high school and we are in the process of getting her a laptop for school. Like the OP, she is determined that she wants a Macbook even though I have come to the conclusion that a Dell PC would be a better choice for her for now.

My daughter's comments resemble many comments I have seen in this thread - my parents hate Macs, my parents love Dell, their idiot repairman friend convinced them, etc etc etc. This couldn't be further from the truth, although I think she really believes it is the case.

I have been a long time PC user, although I have used Macs many many years ago. I am up to date on PC/Windows, but needed to spend dozens and dozens of hours researching Macs (thus the reason I am on this forum). I even made two separate trips to the Apple store to better understand the products, benefits, and level of support available. I actually really liked the new macbooks and the new Mac OS and can understand why they are very popular.

I think both systems have their benefits and drawbacks, and I wont disagree that the Mac is easier to use and more intuitive. Having said that, she is very fluent on PCs, as that is all she has ever used. The major reasons she wants a macbook is 1) the Apple marketing machine and 2) her positive experience with her ipod.

The major criteria for my laptop decision is the fact the her University is PC-centric, and they fully support PC/Windows in their environment (networking, printing, file sharing, online learning, class plug-ins etc). Their helpdesk is PC only. They do have an official statement allowing Macs on to be used on their network, however they also clearly state that although the Mac should work on the network and should run most of the tools, the student is on their own should something not work and no support from the school will be available. (And yes, I am aware of the bootcamp option, however I dont want to deal with the extra cost/complexity of the dual OS option.)

I priced out roughly equivalent systems and would need to spend about $600 more for the macbook than a slightly better speced Dell (This includes educational discounts, extended warranty and MS Office that I would need to get for the Mac that I dont need for the PC because she can use one of my licneses). Also, the Mac did include an Ipod which the PC didnt.

In the end, my wife and I concluded that the Dell would be the better option for her at this time due to the university support and warranty coverage. When she has a problems with it (and she will have problems with either the Mac or PC at some point over the next 4 years) she has more options available with the Dell. The Dell warranty includes 4 year on site h/w support, vs 3 yr support for the macbook which has to either be sent back to Apple or returned to the nearest Apple store (3 hrs from her school). The school help desk, the dell 24x7 support (telephone, email, or their new remote log-in capability) or me (last resort) are also available for s/w and config issues vs the apple 800 number for the mac.

The point of this post is to help you understand that sometimes parents have different reasons, rationale, criteria, etc that you may not fully appreciate. In my case, my daughter will never understand or appreciate the time I put into this in ordeal to try to keep her happy with a macbook. She will just continue to make comments like my parents hate macs, they think PCs are great. etc etc. In the end, I hope it is the right choice even though she is not thrilled at the moment.

Good luck with your new laptop, whichever system it turns out to be.

Thank you for leaving me such a well thought out perspective of your situation and opinions. I really understand your point of view because my cousins that are currently in college told me the same exact thing about how pc-oriented the universities are these days. I want everybody to understand that I am not an Apple fanboy and I do also appreciate advice from someone in favor of a pc. However, I still know that a Mac would probably be okay in that type of situation because you don't have to use bootcamp or parallels to be compatible with Windows (ex. iWork and office for mac are both compatible with office for windows, a mac can run on a pc network, etc) and you could use apple technical support for help with any problems you may encounter via phone. I do admit you have a valid point though, I just don't think my parents put as much thought to it as you did and really don't have that much of a basis for their saying "no."

 

[Tallest Skil]

Dell: Everything guaranteed to work

HA!

That's about it, I guess.

No rational human being would buy a Dell. "FANBOY!" Screw the hardware. Macs run Windows and OS X. There is NO excuse for not getting one.

 

[sabregreen]

Ok, one thing everyone here needs to understand right now. You are getting off topic.

If you want to discuss the differences between a PC and a Mac, depending on your definition of PC as most people see a PC as windows and most people see a Mac as Mac OS 8/9/x whatever, then I will start a new topic to debate these so called differences, Macs are not better than PC's, My macbook is a piece of junk, my HP is cheaper and way more worth the money, whatever you want to discuss.

Anyways, let me put this into perspective to the OP. In the end, it really doesnt matter what choice you make. You could get a mac and have tons of problems, because I'm sorry to say to hurt hardcore mac users little hearts, but a Mac is deep down a PC just the same as a "PC" that you label as a windows only machine. They have problems too just the same. It has nothing to do with which is better quality or which is designed better, at least the bottom line is what I'm talking about.

Reason being is that they BOTH CAN have problems. What the overall decision comes down to is, do you like Mac OS X or do you like Windows OS's better? It really depends on what you want to do. To be completely honest with you, I have both a Macbook and a Dell. In fact in the last 4 years, I have had 2 macbooks, a powerbook, and two dell laptops. I also have a powermac, intel iMac, and 3 custom built desktops. I like them all. If you want to game, you are better off getting a PC due to the customizations you can make when it comes down to hardware that you are extremely limited to the consumer Mac models like the macbook/macbook pro and iMac/Mac mini.

If you want to do productivity, its user opinion truly. I don't care what someone says about a Mac being more user friendly or a PC being more annoying, it is whatever you make it. I am a neutral person, I find the Mac OS X and Windows XP/Vista to be pretty equal to User friendliness and ease of use.

Another thing you should understand, is Total Cost of Ownership. The total cost of ownership here is important. For instance, if you have to repair both a PC and a mac with the same repairs, the Mac is going to cost you more overall. The reason is that parts from Apple are more expensive. I know this because I have repaired probably at least 1000 macs and at least 700 PC's. If you have any questions, you can even PM me and I can give you a comparison, explanation, whatever you like. I feel this thread is not helping you too much.

 

[sabregreen]

On technical support at a college level:

99% of software, devices, etc are going to work at college on a Mac. There is very little that will not work. The compatibility of a Mac is nearly the same as a PC of today. That should not be an issue.

I am an engineer major at school, and I have used a Mac laptop since I started 4 years ago. I have had one software difficulty rather than a compatibility issue. One professor required our programs compile in a Windows only compiler. Not an issue, as this just comes down to writing your programs correctly.

All other programs work fine. Statistics, math programs like matlab/maple/matematica, etc all work fine.

 

[a456]

The major criteria for my laptop decision is the fact the her University is PC-centric, and they fully support PC/Windows in their environment (networking, printing, file sharing, online learning, class plug-ins etc). Their helpdesk is PC only. They do have an official statement allowing Macs on to be used on their network, however they also clearly state that although the Mac should work on the network and should run most of the tools, the student is on their own should something not work and no support from the school will be available. (And yes, I am aware of the bootcamp option, however I dont want to deal with the extra cost/complexity of the dual OS option.)

My university has the exact same comments, but the fact is that Apple is a growing phenomenon in academia. I went to the British Library recently and Mac laptops outnumbered PC laptops by 60% vs 40%. Although institutions often choose PCs more and more academics are exercising their freedom by choosing Mac, because they are better research tools (trust me I completed a PhD with a 12" PowerBook, and I would have been lost without Spotlight for one thing). And the fact is the helpdesks don't need to support Macs because they join the wireless networks without a problem, whereas PCs need the support.

 

[mixmacface]

you all have some great ideas. however some of them wouldn't work for me. For example, I have read several replies saying, "Take them to an Apple Store and they will be convinced." I myself would love to visit an Apple Store. However the closest stores are in Baltimore, Washington, and Pittsburgh which are all over a two hour drive.We have no local stores that sell Apple either. Best Buy and Circuit City can be found a little over an hour away. Understand that I live in an area that is in between rural and suburban and that the only big computer stores we have are Staples and WalMart. We are going school shopping in Morgantown, West Virginia in a few weeks and I'm not sure if their Best Buy has Apple products, but I will definitely check into it. I am positive that an Apple Store would inspire them, but I fear that it may also intimidate them as well, leading them to further believe that an Apple computer is too good for me. Once again, thanks for any help.

DAH! Morgantown?! hahahhaha! that's where i tried out my first mac! There's best buy in University Square, and they DO have apple products!!! GO MAN! they have a blackbook on display along with the air and a pro and imacs! i stopped there before heading to my school to register for classes last month! GOOOOOOOO! they have a HUGE display in the back left hand corner. AH! that's so exciting!

plus, pittsburgh is only an hours drive from motown, and although i haven't been to the apple store, it's not that bad of a drive from motown. GO! you have my blessing! haha!

[end too much excitement here]

 

[sabregreen]

Where do you live in WV ?

 

[mixmacface]

i live in TITLETOWN, USA!

parkersburg.

 

[sabregreen]

Thats not too far from Fairmont. Thats where I travel down to every year at least a couple times.

 

[notjustjay]

I do know two people that have Macs though and they love them!

And? Are they laptops? Invite them over for dinner, and tell them to bring their Macs -- problem solved.

Option 2 is to get both. Buy a decent Dell, and buy a used PowerBook or iBook or Mac mini off eBay to play with.

 

[gnasher729]

I agree with you. Although I'm not going to be mean about it, I do think that my parents would be really ****ed off if I sold a computer they just bought me. And I don't know what some of you are thinking but they aren't old or anything and they wouldn't be so nieve that they wouldn't figure out that I had sold my computer; my mom just doesn't know a computer past myspace and msn messenger and my dads just never around computers. Also, I was surprised too when someone said that I should be a "grown man" and disrespect my parents.

Agree 100% that selling a computer that they just bought for you is a very, very bad strategy if you want to get along with your parents. You can do anything in your power to convince them to buy the computer that you want. If you lose the argument, you lose it. It is a good opportunity to remind them from time to time that they made the wrong decision and you suffer because of that

Now if all the money that pays for the laptop comes from your work, or at least a good part of the money, then I think the parents should take that into consideration and give you more power to make the decision (I would let _you_ decide as long as I thought that what you learn from a wrong or not optimal decision is worth more than the cost of the wrong decision).

 

[mixmacface]

Thats not too far from Fairmont. Thats where I travel down to every year at least a couple times.

yeah, fairmont is right inbetween pburg and morganhole. it's not that bad of a drive. . i stop in morgantown when i'm headed to school (my school's 4 and 1/2 hours away. . ) my brothers live in morgantown and it's a nice place to stay so i don't have to drive the whole way!

 

[jzuena]

by the way, my only source of income is cutting grass for the neighbors and helping at my grandparents restaurant. I currently have 600 dollars saved and counting but school is coming up fast. And I agree with some of you that are saying that, "at least they are buying you a computer," but honestly I don't see where you're getting this whole 'just be grateful' thing because i would hardly say I'm a spoiled brat and I couldn't be one if I wanted to be because I'm not exactly rich; I just want a nice Apple computer because I know how much better they are than any other computer I could get. Also for those of you still recommending to go to an Apple Store go back and read some of my other replies. You guys are helping a lot, thanks for all replies!

It sounds like you already have enough for a low-end Mini or maybe a refurb high-end Mini. Maybe you can get your parents to just get you a good monitor to go with it? A cheap non-Apple USB keyboard and mouse will do, if it means being able to get a Mac sooner.