ok so heres my advice one if u dont have any of the software needed for windows like stuff for school it will end costing as much or more as a mac definitely take them to an apple store just let them mess around with stuff and if they refuse to go just say its not gunna hurt you its worth a shot have them talk to one of the apple guys there and if they dont ask what are the advantages of mac over windows step up and ask with your parents right there however dont go to best buy because they offer both so they wont encourage apple as much as the apple store will but dont give up google for stuff and if its your money just go buy it yourself once you get the money
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My Parents Hate Apple
- Thread starter drs68
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(^^ longest. run. on. sentence. ever. lol)
Firstly, to the OP:
It's clear you've done a lot more research than your parents have. It just seems that your parents are being conned into believing false facts by somebody with their own agenda of keeping their job.
Haha. Gotta tell it like it is.
I equally hate Mac users who say retarded things about PCs that just aren't true.
Back in January, when I tried Vista, I didn't really have any complaints, except for the fact that the shut down button was in a weird spot, the transparent windows were kind of ugly, and some software was not compatible. But Mac OS X is not without its problems...I don't want to get into the 1000 year old debate of Mac vs. PC, but they each have their strengths and weaknesses. But to make fun of one OS without knowing the facts is ridiculous.
If I had a computer running Windows Vista, I wouldn't NOT be able to get my work done. Sure, I'd have less of a good time since I genuinely do prefer Mac OS X, but Vista is a 100% capable OS.
Just a little story...I switched about 1.5-2 years ago, and am still learning new great things about the Mac - more USEFUL things that I ever learned in Windows in all my other years.
Just recently, I've come to discover the power of networking in OS X. I'm sure Vista has a similar feature - I haven't tried it - but I was never able to do this with such ease in XP. When you have more than one Mac on a network, you can have 100% access to all the other computers (with password entry, if desired). Not only that, you can press "share screen" and it does just that - seamlessly. It really is incredible.
It's not the hardware that I really like. The hardware LOOKS nice, and is nice, and is well built - often better built than the competition (Apple has terrible quality control in my experience but I don't want to get into that here). It's really the OS that I'm in love with. If OS X was offered on other computers, I would still probably go with Apple hardware, but for me it's the OS that is keeping me from switching back.
Firstly, to the OP:
It's clear you've done a lot more research than your parents have. It just seems that your parents are being conned into believing false facts by somebody with their own agenda of keeping their job.
Haha. Gotta tell it like it is.
I equally hate Mac users who say retarded things about PCs that just aren't true.
Back in January, when I tried Vista, I didn't really have any complaints, except for the fact that the shut down button was in a weird spot, the transparent windows were kind of ugly, and some software was not compatible. But Mac OS X is not without its problems...I don't want to get into the 1000 year old debate of Mac vs. PC, but they each have their strengths and weaknesses. But to make fun of one OS without knowing the facts is ridiculous.
If I had a computer running Windows Vista, I wouldn't NOT be able to get my work done. Sure, I'd have less of a good time since I genuinely do prefer Mac OS X, but Vista is a 100% capable OS.
Just a little story...I switched about 1.5-2 years ago, and am still learning new great things about the Mac - more USEFUL things that I ever learned in Windows in all my other years.
Just recently, I've come to discover the power of networking in OS X. I'm sure Vista has a similar feature - I haven't tried it - but I was never able to do this with such ease in XP. When you have more than one Mac on a network, you can have 100% access to all the other computers (with password entry, if desired). Not only that, you can press "share screen" and it does just that - seamlessly. It really is incredible.
It's not the hardware that I really like. The hardware LOOKS nice, and is nice, and is well built - often better built than the competition (Apple has terrible quality control in my experience but I don't want to get into that here). It's really the OS that I'm in love with. If OS X was offered on other computers, I would still probably go with Apple hardware, but for me it's the OS that is keeping me from switching back.
I will have to agree with you partially - I don't think the OP should NOT get a Mac for this reason - but I think it's important to learn how to use Windows. Pretty much everywhere you go, you will find a PC. They're everywhere. Sure, a lot of Macs are popping up, but it's equally important (if not more so) to know how to use a PC (unless you're making software for Mac only). Ignorance about the other platform is not a good idea. If Linux started getting a big piece of the pie and popping up everywhere, I'd learn that too. Computers are tools. Computers get things done. Getting things done = time + money!
About those 5 year old you're right as only a few use them these days. What about not so old MBP issues with 8x GPU series? Super crap iMacs with bleeding screens? Yellow panels of a very expensive MBPs? Cheap ass TFT panels with gradients so bad that it screams for help? Bleeding G series? Super crap and OLD technology parts used in many systems (yes the ATI 2400 and 2600 are from stone age in terms of todays performance)?
You forget one thing. User base is significantly SMALLER compared to Win systems. So what that I look at this forums?? rofl that is the dumbest argument I've heard!! This forums is just a tiny piece of user base and has nothing to do with real market numbers.
Please BE OBJECTIVE. Just because it's apple it does NOT mean it is better.
That means you missed around 25 updates and SP1. That could make the difference between light and day.
That means you missed around 25 updates and SP1. That could make the difference between light and day.
Uh..One is a source of illumination, and the other is a definition for a period of 24-hours, based on the rotation of the Earth?
I disagree. Although this forum is a tiny piece of the user base, it represents a good chunk of the users having problems. Rarely does somebody make a thread saying how happy they are with their ____. It's always: "My ____ is not working, please help!".
It's almost like going to a new city and only visiting the hospital - your view of the city will be very skewed for obvious reasons. Not everyone in the city is sick!
And not every Mac has problems. I do agree that Apple has poor quality control. But I could be wrong - it could just be that I'm spending so much time on MacRumors and I'm only reading about problems and such. Go to a dell forum and there are tons of problems - from Bad screens to "wrong keyboard instlaled", there are tons of problems out there.
Oh, and "Super crap and OLD technology parts used in many systems (yes the ATI 2400 and 2600 are from stone age in terms of todays performance)?" has nothing to do with build quality/problems. If you don't like the technology Apple chose to implement in whatever machine, then don't buy it - nobody is holding a gun to your head telling you to buy a computer with an ATI2400. And not everyone needs a $1000 video card to check their e-mail.
That means you missed around 25 updates and SP1. That could make the difference between light and day.
lol, night and day..I think we got the point
1. You say your a junior in HS, this gives you a whole year before graduating HS to get your Apple computer.
2. Have you thought about asking your grandparents for help with either more hours at their restaurant or help in buying your computer?
Might be way off, but had these thoughts that might help.
The reason is that the instruction set uses 64-bit wide registers and data. So now instead of instructions being 32-bit wide they are 64-bit wide. When you assign a virtual memory space, this difference is substance, or twice as big. Now, its not one-to-one the sense its going to take literally twice the amount of memory so to speak, but it will take more memory.
The issue is that the 64-bit implemenation of their 32-bit counterparts are just not at the same level as the 32-bit versions. Programs are also the problem as there are few that are written for 64-bit architectures. Vista and Leopard improved upon their predecessors however by a long shot. Vista is by far much better than 64-bit XP. Solaris is another good 64-bit OS.
I'm sure wikipedia can explain this a lot better, as I am no teacher.
I am on a Dell right now (friends computer as MBP is at my apartment). I understand all about how average to terrible their systems can be. I have owned 2 Dell laptops before I got my MBP 2 years ago and neither lasted very long
But, a Dell is better than nothing and some people get by with Dells for quite awhile so maybe he can be a lucky one
Having a laptop in college is a huge asset. Having a laptop in high school is a huge waste of money. Wait so you can get the freshest thing before you go to college because you will NOT be able to buy anything like it again for more than 4 years.
When you are ready to purchase a computer, say thanks mom and dad, that is so wonderful that you are going to buy me a computer.
I really have my sights set on a Mac xxxx. The Dell costs yyyy.
How about you give me the funds, and I'll earn the rest for the Mac xxxx?
Some parents will go for this because they see you really want something, and are willing to work for it.
I really have my sights set on a Mac xxxx. The Dell costs yyyy.
How about you give me the funds, and I'll earn the rest for the Mac xxxx?
Some parents will go for this because they see you really want something, and are willing to work for it.
The age old argument "PCs are cheaper than Macs" is proved wrong. Think about it, the average lifespan for a PC is roughly 18 months. Average lifespan of a Mac, 3-4 years. The money you spend will be less on the Mac than the money spent on a PC every 1.5 years to get good speed performance, along with money spent on security software and repairs, would be far more than a Mac. And hey, be respectful to your parents while sticking to your "guns." Not that I am saying you haven't respected their opinions, respect can go a lonnnnngggg way!!
That's was one reason I used to convince my parents to get a Mac.
Best of luck!!!!
-MacMan7002
Goes both way don't you think??
Just like not every PC has problems.
Really??
I thought that the $270 GPU you can get for the Pro is about $120 for any Win system if you get it on sale so your $1000 value is rather a joke or ignorance and not real life fact.
Again. Get your facts together man. You're throwing out crap on each reply.
Ok... Do you know of any super significant difference between the intel chip in a PC and the one in a Mac since you come with such a brilliant theory??
You upgrade your PC at a fraction of what you have to pay for a Apple product. You get a new CPU for your PC and you have it upgraded. Since PC users are in general way better computer oriented then no wonder they drop something new every even 6 to 12 months. People like fast and faster. You buy a Mac and you're stuck as you have no chance of upgrading it and that IS a fact. Your Macbook from november last year is already 30-40% slower than most good priced PC laptops.
Don't fool yourself. Good excuse tho haha... not.
What makes Windows users on average more "computer oriented"? For better or for worse windows is the world's default operating system. This seems like saying "Toyota customers are in general way better drivers". Maybe you meant to say that there are quantitatively more windows "computer-people" than mac "computer people"?
Please see comments in bold...
Oh, and also, even though it seems like you hate Apple, you probably don't, since you own one beastly iMac and a brand new iPhone 3G. Criticize Macs/Apple all you want - whether you praise them or not, they are better off because of the money you gave them in those purchases.
Goes both way don't you think??
Huh?
Just like not every PC has problems.
Where/when did I say that every PC had problems? I never said that.
Really??
I thought that the $270 GPU you can get for the Pro is about $120 for any Win system if you get it on sale so your $1000 value is rather a joke or ignorance and not real life fact.
It was a joke. Also called "sarcasm". Apple isn't in the GPU business, nor are they in the Ram business. In this type of market, they can charge whatever they want for a graphics card. If you want to buy a GPU from them, well, then that's great for Apple. If not, then they probably don't care. They do pretty well for themselves as it is.
Again. Get your facts together man. You're throwing out crap on each reply.
What facts are you talking about? Nothing I said is false. And I'm not being biased at all. And if I am and just don't know it - well - look where you are - it's not called MacRumors for nothing
Oh, and also, even though it seems like you hate Apple, you probably don't, since you own one beastly iMac and a brand new iPhone 3G. Criticize Macs/Apple all you want - whether you praise them or not, they are better off because of the money you gave them in those purchases.
I had this same issue with my parents a while back. What I did was I made a powerpoint presentation showing the advantages of a Mac compared to the average PC. No crapware, few/no viruses, iLife comes preloaded, etc. I showed a few myths about macs (such as no right click) and explained that there really is, you just have to go to System Pref's.
I threw in lots of other stuff too, like clips from the Mac vs. PC commercials. After my parents watched it, they said they wanted to go to the Apple Store to look at the Macs hands on. A few months later we got a MacBook.
[quote[Ok. First of all. I run Vista 32/64, XP 32/64, OS X 10.1 through 10.6 (dev version obviously). I don't know how you really come to the statement that I am obviously not running Vista. In fact, I watch all these OS's running on over 2000 machines in 10 different buildings daily.[/quote]
Your previous posts and current post and posts after this clearly indicate you have no Vista experience.
I've had 3 different HPs from as many product lines and each one I just had to loosen a screw, pull, push, tighten screw. Its the same way on the Dells and Gateways I have access too as well.
I hear of more optical drive failures with Apple systems than with any other major manufacturer.
Plus go to any non-Apple forum, especially builder forums. If you even begin to suggest that Panasonic is even close to the quality of Pioneer, LG, Lite-On, Plextor, you'll get laughed off the boards.
So how is it one OS would run flawlessly on faulty hardware while another wouldn't?
Translation: "I don't know what I'm talking about"
But every vendor besides Apple learns from those issues and updates their hardware accordingly. The MacBook Air has been around for what now? Five months and it still has rampant problems with heat. The MacBook and MacBook Pro still get ridiculously hot under regular use, the MBP still has denting, warping, and scratching issues, while the MacBook still has issues with plastic cracking, changing color, etc.
My first hand experience is why I can say, without a doubt, that Vista is faster on the same hardware. All of the benchmarks out there now are from pre-SP1 Vista or on a fresh install of Vista that hasn't learned real world usage patterns.
I was running XP on my HP dv6500t until SP1 came out for Vista. I switched back and the computer has been even faster since. I even did a dual boot with XP SP3 and Vista SP1 and Vista still came out on top.
Thats both true and false. Had you use Vista 64-bit, you'd know it uses no more RAM at startup than Vista 32-bit.
You'd also know that nearly all apps for both Leopard and Vista 64 are still 32-bit, so that portion of your argument is basically null and void Running in a 64-bit OS doesn't make the app itself 64-bit.
haha my arguments invalid? Somehow, OS X randomly freezing across two different versions while two different versions of Windows on the very same hardware has been rock solid is NOT OS X's fault?
I love how the Apple fanboys act as if OS X can have no faults. Its perfect. Even though it has known stability issues (which Apple listed some as part of the fixes in 10.5.4 when seeded to developers), if it freezes its somehow bad hardware or the users fault. Even though Windows is rock solid on the same exact hardware and has no issues of any kind, OS X freezing is not the fault of OS X. Hah. Apple's fan logic is hilarious.
Actually, thats not true. Even though you can run Windows on a Mac, there is one thing you can't do
You see, HDCP is optional on all of the GPUs Apple currently uses. It has to be included in the BIOS. But Apple didn't put it in the BIOS of any of the GPUs they use. So what does that mean? Even with an external drive, you can't legally watch blu-ray discs in Windows on any Mac and OS X has no support for blu-ray or system wide hardware acceleration for video in the way that blu-ray playback requires.
But theres no reason a $1099 system should be shipped without a DVD writer and with integrated graphics either
This post literally made me laugh out loud.
The average lifespan of a PC is 18 months? Why is that? You know that Macs use the same parts as PCs, right? And, in my experience, PCs are built better than Macs.
Let's realistically look at things for a second. For around $1300 you get a MacBook with integrated Intel graphics (the worst of the worst, even if they go up to the X4500), 2GB of RAM, 160GB HDD, DVD writer, Core 2 Duo at 2.4GHz. If you go with HP you get all of that, plus an nVidia GeForce 9600M GT 512MB AND a blu-ray drive, as well as ExpressCard (full size, not the half size like the MacBook Pro), memory card reader, fingerprint reader, 1680x1050 glass screen, HDMI output all for about the same price.
You're literally getting about twice as many features as well as twice as much connectivity, and the ability to play high definition movies, for the same cost. With a Mac you literally spend the same amount for half the hardware.
And whats this with repairs? PCs generally use higher quality components (like LG drives instead of Matsushita, which tend to live up to 4 of the last 5 letters in their name) and most of the parts that are likely to die are user replaceable. And security updates are free. Microsoft only charges for major OS revisions and anti-malware software is free (and not needed anyway as long as you don't do things you probably shouldn't be doing anyway).
Your previous posts and current post and posts after this clearly indicate you have no Vista experience.
I've had 3 different HPs from as many product lines and each one I just had to loosen a screw, pull, push, tighten screw. Its the same way on the Dells and Gateways I have access too as well.
I hear of more optical drive failures with Apple systems than with any other major manufacturer.
Plus go to any non-Apple forum, especially builder forums. If you even begin to suggest that Panasonic is even close to the quality of Pioneer, LG, Lite-On, Plextor, you'll get laughed off the boards.
So how is it one OS would run flawlessly on faulty hardware while another wouldn't?
Translation: "I don't know what I'm talking about"
But every vendor besides Apple learns from those issues and updates their hardware accordingly. The MacBook Air has been around for what now? Five months and it still has rampant problems with heat. The MacBook and MacBook Pro still get ridiculously hot under regular use, the MBP still has denting, warping, and scratching issues, while the MacBook still has issues with plastic cracking, changing color, etc.
My first hand experience is why I can say, without a doubt, that Vista is faster on the same hardware. All of the benchmarks out there now are from pre-SP1 Vista or on a fresh install of Vista that hasn't learned real world usage patterns.
I was running XP on my HP dv6500t until SP1 came out for Vista. I switched back and the computer has been even faster since. I even did a dual boot with XP SP3 and Vista SP1 and Vista still came out on top.
Thats both true and false. Had you use Vista 64-bit, you'd know it uses no more RAM at startup than Vista 32-bit.
You'd also know that nearly all apps for both Leopard and Vista 64 are still 32-bit, so that portion of your argument is basically null and void
Running in a 64-bit OS doesn't make the app itself 64-bit. haha my arguments invalid? Somehow, OS X randomly freezing across two different versions while two different versions of Windows on the very same hardware has been rock solid is NOT OS X's fault?
I love how the Apple fanboys act as if OS X can have no faults. Its perfect. Even though it has known stability issues (which Apple listed some as part of the fixes in 10.5.4 when seeded to developers), if it freezes its somehow bad hardware or the users fault. Even though Windows is rock solid on the same exact hardware and has no issues of any kind, OS X freezing is not the fault of OS X. Hah. Apple's fan logic is hilarious.
Actually, thats not true. Even though you can run Windows on a Mac, there is one thing you can't do
You see, HDCP is optional on all of the GPUs Apple currently uses. It has to be included in the BIOS. But Apple didn't put it in the BIOS of any of the GPUs they use. So what does that mean? Even with an external drive, you can't legally watch blu-ray discs in Windows on any Mac and OS X has no support for blu-ray or system wide hardware acceleration for video in the way that blu-ray playback requires.
But theres no reason a $1099 system should be shipped without a DVD writer and with integrated graphics either
This post literally made me laugh out loud.
The average lifespan of a PC is 18 months? Why is that? You know that Macs use the same parts as PCs, right? And, in my experience, PCs are built better than Macs.
Let's realistically look at things for a second. For around $1300 you get a MacBook with integrated Intel graphics (the worst of the worst, even if they go up to the X4500), 2GB of RAM, 160GB HDD, DVD writer, Core 2 Duo at 2.4GHz. If you go with HP you get all of that, plus an nVidia GeForce 9600M GT 512MB AND a blu-ray drive, as well as ExpressCard (full size, not the half size like the MacBook Pro), memory card reader, fingerprint reader, 1680x1050 glass screen, HDMI output all for about the same price.
You're literally getting about twice as many features as well as twice as much connectivity, and the ability to play high definition movies, for the same cost. With a Mac you literally spend the same amount for half the hardware.
And whats this with repairs? PCs generally use higher quality components (like LG drives instead of Matsushita, which tend to live up to 4 of the last 5 letters in their name) and most of the parts that are likely to die are user replaceable. And security updates are free. Microsoft only charges for major OS revisions and anti-malware software is free (and not needed anyway as long as you don't do things you probably shouldn't be doing anyway).
Mosx - You are talking from a Pro users point of view. I don't mean someone who uses a computer professionally, I mean someone who obviously tinkers with the alot as well.
For the average computer owner (and this kids parents are obviously that since they are taking their advice from a typical M$ hack), a PC WILL only last 18 months. Not because it will fail or explode, but simply because it will get so clogged up with virus', spyware and crap that it will be cheaper to replace it than pay their wintel fanboy to fix it for them.
You and I can reinstall an OS till the cows come home and retrieve all our valuable data every time, but this is way beyond the average user, either due to ability or patience.
As for stability issues, well anyone who claims any piece of software with more than a few thousand lines of code has no stability issues is lying. You should know that as a developer. And in my experience (as an Apple Tech) when a Mac freezes it really is more likely to be a hardware issue.
But we are getting off topic.
You've probably tried already, but this guy your parents takes advice from probably has some sort of (expensive) MCSE qualification. He is therefore, never going to recommend they buy something he cannot deal with (unless he pays for more training - which he clearly doesn't want to).
I like to use analogies with things like this. You wouldn't go into a Ford dealership and ask them what kind of Mercedes you should buy.
But it really sounds like you may be wasting your time trying to convince them to change their minds (you might show them this thread though).
They obviously trust this guys opinion, which is a shame.
I think you have little option but to thank them for their kind offer, but that you will have to decline it. Use another analogy - pick something expensive that would be utterly useless or even unpleasant (maybe some ludicrously expensive ugly jewellery - thats easy enough to find) to them and point out that if you offered to buy them one, they would not accept it.
I suppose the other option is to rent a Mac for a week or two and show them at home.
For the average computer owner (and this kids parents are obviously that since they are taking their advice from a typical M$ hack), a PC WILL only last 18 months. Not because it will fail or explode, but simply because it will get so clogged up with virus', spyware and crap that it will be cheaper to replace it than pay their wintel fanboy to fix it for them.
You and I can reinstall an OS till the cows come home and retrieve all our valuable data every time, but this is way beyond the average user, either due to ability or patience.
As for stability issues, well anyone who claims any piece of software with more than a few thousand lines of code has no stability issues is lying. You should know that as a developer. And in my experience (as an Apple Tech) when a Mac freezes it really is more likely to be a hardware issue.
But we are getting off topic.
You've probably tried already, but this guy your parents takes advice from probably has some sort of (expensive) MCSE qualification. He is therefore, never going to recommend they buy something he cannot deal with (unless he pays for more training - which he clearly doesn't want to).
I like to use analogies with things like this. You wouldn't go into a Ford dealership and ask them what kind of Mercedes you should buy.
But it really sounds like you may be wasting your time trying to convince them to change their minds (you might show them this thread though).
They obviously trust this guys opinion, which is a shame.
I think you have little option but to thank them for their kind offer, but that you will have to decline it. Use another analogy - pick something expensive that would be utterly useless or even unpleasant (maybe some ludicrously expensive ugly jewellery - thats easy enough to find) to them and point out that if you offered to buy them one, they would not accept it.
I suppose the other option is to rent a Mac for a week or two and show them at home.
Oh please. I'm sorry but that is a load of crap. It is pure BS that even the most technologically stumped person could smell from a mile away.
For several years now, it has been next to impossible for any form of malware to download and install from the internet without the users express consent. Internet Explorer 6 and 7 make it more difficult to install things than Firefox does!
Outlook, Outlook Express, and Windows Mail don't automatically run any attachments now.
Not only that, but most ISPs and every major free mail service (Yahoo, Hotmail, Gmail) scan attachments before letting you download them.
Its honestly so difficult to get a virus these days that if you ARE the type of person who would actually download and install the software despite all of the warnings you'd get prior to taking that action, you're the type of person who would manage to screw up OS X as well.
Quite frankly, that whole argument that Apple fans try to use in regards to viruses and spyware is completely and utterly false. Its as false as saying the Earth is flat and anyone who uses it or believes it looks like a fool.
Well, as I said, Windows XP and Vista are rock solid on my MacBook in their own partition. OS X has very random (maybe once every 6 weeks) freezing issues that I can never repeat and it never happens in the same way twice.
Maybe that's just part of growing up: realizing you can't always get what you want (cue Mick Jagger...).
That would be embarssing to be one of the ones without an apple
Yeah, I wouldn't want to be the one who "thinks different" in that class
i agree with whoever said a laptop in college is an asset, a laptop in high school is a waste. i agree. i used my parents desktop all of my high school career (running windows 98 for 3 of those 4 years! haha!) and i got all that i needed done. the projects i was assigned were very low-key and mainly involved poster board and elmer's glue. doing research was the main part of any high school project. although i wanted a mac, i didn't need one. now that i'm in art school, i need one. i'm glad i waited until i needed one. i think you should definitely wait until you absolutely need one. by then, there may be a better macbook out there, and maybe cheaper. who knows?
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