Nano To Reach 12 GB By Fall?

[Macnoviz]

Out of interest (having only ever owned hard drive-based iPods), does anyone know the number of write-cycles for flash-based iPods?

If the number of read/writes possible for flash-based products would be less than currently possible with a hard disk, I can imagine this being the significant factor that holds back a transition from hard disks to flash products (both in entertainment devices like the iPod, and in Apple's laptops), possibly moreso than price, even.

I believe the number of write cycles of the NAND memory discussed for the Ultra-Portable was sufficient to outlast hard-drives. Although this also depends on the manner of writing: if you use the flash drives as sole memory for a computer, it constantly writes and overwrites, so this would not be good for that.
But I guess that for an iPod, that you sync maybe a few times per day at most, the write cycles will be the least of your problems, unless you plan to use it for decades. Plus, You can't use your iPod as only storage for something. Not because of technology, but because it's more fragile and steal-prone. (just look at the my-iPod-was-stolen threads)

 

[javierbds]

Largely Off topic

Bleh ! More flash, less flash ...

Where is the VPod?

Not because of technology, but because it's more fragile and steal-prone. (just look at the my-iPod-was-stolen threads)

I may hold a record there mine was stolen before ever reaching my hands (in transport) ... Got my money back

If there is not a xPod PDA with touchscreen by Xmas I'm going the Nokia 770 route ...

 

[Macnoviz]

Largely off topic?

Bleh ! More flash, less flash ...

Where is the VPod?



I may hold a record there mine was stolen before ever reaching my hands (in transport) ... Got my money back

If there is not a xPod PDA with touchscreen by Xmas I'm going the Nokia 770 route ...

And vPod isn't off topic?

 

[Dunepilot]

I believe the number of write cycles of the NAND memory discussed for the Ultra-Portable was sufficient to outlast hard-drives. Although this also depends on the manner of writing: if you use the flash drives as sole memory for a computer, it constantly writes and overwrites, so this would not be good for that.
But I guess that for an iPod, that you sync maybe a few times per day at most, the write cycles will be the least of your problems, unless you plan to use it for decades. Plus, You can't use your iPod as only storage for something. Not because of technology, but because it's more fragile and steal-prone. (just look at the my-iPod-was-stolen threads)

Thanks. Anybody with info on the actual number of writes possible to a current Nano?

 

[joecool85]

I would buy a 6 or 8gb nano for the under $200 range.

 

[Tom B.]

I think that Nano's and Shuffle's memory can be rewritten about 27000 times, so even if you rewrite the memory 10 times a day it will last more than 7 years, which is much longer than most people will use them for anyway.

 

[iJawn108]

Last year I wanted a 10 gig nano sooooo bad. But I really don't think I'd need that much space. I don't understand the need for more music than my battery lasts. My shuffle does the job perfectly.

 

[iGary]

Needs to be something spectacular for all lines this fall - very long time between updates this time, and they have to go into Christmas srtong.

 

[macintel4me]

Bleh ! More flash, less flash ...

Where is the VPod?



I may hold a record there mine was stolen before ever reaching my hands (in transport) ... Got my money back

If there is not a xPod PDA with touchscreen by Xmas I'm going the Nokia 770 route ...

The 770 only has 1GB.

Enjoy, but I'll keep my iPod thank you very much.

 

[agentmouthwash]

Sure, the Nano has a small capacity, but people like me with over 40GB of music on our computers prefer Nanos over high-capacity ipods for 2 reasons:
(1) the Nano is small - i barely notice it in my pocket.
(2) Flash drive (no hard drive) - my 3rd Gen iPod had way too many hard Drive problems and I'm not going to back to a HD-based iPod.

I went from a 40GB ipod to a 4GB Nano and I couldn't be happier. How could I fit all my music on such a small device? 2 words: SMART PLAYLISTS.

Chances are I'm not going to listen to every song on my ipod during my commute to work. so every day I do a sync and I get a refreshed SMART PLAYLIST to listen to.

 

[noservice2001]

12Gb seems high, what about

2Gb Shuffle-99
4 Gb Nano-149
8GB Nano-199
10Gb Nano-249
True Video iPod 40Gb(touch screen)-299
True Video iPod 80Gb(tough screen)-399


That way people who dislike the touchscreen idea, still have a Nano with Click Wheel, and still hold lots of songs

whats the difference between a touch screen and tough screen?

 

[MacDonaldsd]

Can only be good, 12GB will be enough for most people.

 

[noservice2001]

I think that Nano's and Shuffle's memory can be rewritten about 27000 times, so even if you rewrite the memory 10 times a day it will last more than 7 years, which is much longer than most people will use them for anyway.

my shuffle died after a year of use.... but then again, i used it as a flash disk, and was writing to it and such more than 10x a day....

 

[Lollypop]

Needs to be something spectacular for all lines this fall - very long time between updates this time, and they have to go into Christmas srtong.

I agree, but I dont think increasing the size is spectacular enough. Nor do I think 12gigs is really a good idea right now, go for 6 and 8.. that will be a better growth pattern.

 

[Tom B.]

my shuffle died after a year of use.... but then again, i used it as a flash disk, and was writing to it and such more than 10x a day....

To use the maximum amount of rewrite times in 1 year, you must of rewritten the memory 74 times a day, which is unlikely so I'm sure it stopped working for a different reason.

 

[ezekielrage_99]

12Gb seems high, what about

2Gb Shuffle-99
4 Gb Nano-149
8GB Nano-199
10Gb Nano-249
True Video iPod 40Gb(touch screen)-299
True Video iPod 80Gb(tough screen)-399


That way people who dislike the touchscreen idea, still have a Nano with Click Wheel, and still hold lots of songs

Sign me up for those because I need a new iPod, an 8GB Nano would be sweet

 

[cbigfoot1987]

How fast are NAND flash drives (read and write speeds, access times) compared to hard drives?



Is this really true? If it was, I wouldn't mind paying even a thousand dollars extra for a NAND flash drive for my next laptop (Macbook or Pro).

here are the Numbers From Samsung
FYI 20µs Means 20 NANO Seconds

Voltage Supply
- 2.70V ~ 3.60V
Organization
- Memory Cell Array : (1G + 32M) x 8bit
- Data Register : (2K + 64) x 8bit
Automatic Program and Erase
- Page Program : (2K + 64)Byte
- Block Erase : (128K + 4K)Byte
Page Read Operation
- Page Size : (2K + 64)Byte
- Random Read : 20µs(Max.)
- Serial Access : 25ns(Min.)
* K9NBG08U5M : 50ns(Min.)
Fast Write Cycle Time
- Page Program time : 200µs(Typ.)
- Block Erase Time : 1.5ms(Typ.)
Command/Address/Data Multiplexed I/O Port
Hardware Data Protection
- Program/Erase Lockout During Power Transitions
Reliable CMOS Floating-Gate Technology
- Endurance : 100K Program/Erase Cycles(with 1bit/512Byte ECC)
- Data Retention : 10 Years
Command Driven Operation
Intelligent Copy-Back with internal 1bit/528Byte EDC
Unique ID for Copyright Protection
Package :
- K9K8G08U0M-YCB0/YIB0
48 - Pin TSOP I (12 x 20 / 0.5 mm pitch)
- K9K8G08U0M-PCB0/PIB0 : Pb-FREE PACKAGE
48 - Pin TSOP I (12 x 20 / 0.5 mm pitch)
- K9WAG08U1M-YCB0/YIB0
48 - Pin TSOP I (12 x 20 / 0.5 mm pitch)
- K9WAG08U1M-PCB0/PIB0 : Pb-FREE PACKAGE
48 - Pin TSOP I (12 x 20 / 0.5 mm pitch)
- K9WAG08U1M-ICB0/IIB0
52 - Pin TLGA (12 x 17 / 1.0 mm pitch)
- K9NBG08U5M-PCB0/PIB0 : Pb-FREE PACKAGE
48 - Pin TSOP I (12 x 20 / 0.5 mm pitch)

 

[m-dogg]

Where's my 80 and 100 GB iPods for those of us who roll big?

You beat me to it. My thoughts exactly.

I want my GB in triple digits, and it doesn't have to be flash!

 

[Yvan256]

Typical Apple. I buy a 3rd gen. 10GB iPod in 2004 and now they're coming up with a 12GB Flash iPod nano... ;-)

When, oh when, will hard drives be replaced with flash memory? Probably never. They'll come out with something else by the time flash gets cheap enough.

With the new perpendicular recording of Hitachi, I wouldn't count on flash to take over hard disks anytime soon (for the price/storage ratio anyway).

 

[sushi]

12 GB would be nice, but I don't know if Apple would make such a significant jump so quickly, even if they had the means. The technology might be there, but there's more to running a successful business than simple technology decisions. Apple might choose to go with 6 GB or 8 GB nanos for starters, as this might make better sense from a business perspective. It will of course depend on what competition is doing as well, profit margins, many factors at play here...

Regardless, larger capacity nanos and full-screen video iPods this fall would make a deadly combination for both consumers and Apple themselves heading into the busy Christmas shopping season!

I agree with you that they will up the capacity but probably not hit the 12GB point for a Nano.

Currently we are at 1, 2, and 4. If they double across the line with 2, 4 and 8 while keeping prices the same that in itself would be good and create a buying surge I would think.

Having said that, for some reason a 10GB flash model seems to be a magical number, or milestone may be a better way to put it.

On a side note I would love to replace my 10GB G1 iPod with a Nano of similar capacity so maybe I am biased about the 10GB Nano model.

Also, somewhere down the road I believe that we'll see the Toshiba 40 and 80 GB 1.8 inch drives used in some model of the iPod Video or the rumored true Video iPod.

Late summer or early fall would be a great time to introduce these new models to capitalize on the back to school sales and the upcoming holidays.

 

[guzhogi]

Anyone notice in the 1st post that it said "Gartner forecasts that a 16Gb (2GB) device". 16 Gb (2GB). Technically, when they use Gb (little b), it means gigabit and GB (big b), it means gigabyte, which is 8 gigabits. And 16 gb (gigabits) is the same as 2 GB (gigabytes) so what's going on?

Personally, I'd like to have the biggest amount of memory possibble for music, videos and whatever else I need. Unfortunately, I won't be able to afford it on my salary. I work at an elementary school as their "technology assistant" (just a fancy way of saying "computer geek") and right now, I make just under $15 grand a year. However, my union just got a new contract for which the base pay goes up by about $2/hr so I'll be making a little over $17 grand a year after the contract goes into effect next month.

Flash memory probably won't match hard drive capacities any time soon. The largest hard drive I've seen is Seagate's 750 GB drive while largest flash drive I've heard about is 8 (someone correct me if you've heard different).

 

[gauriemma]

Even if 12GB were possible...

...I can't imagine Apple wouldn't make that big a leap—as noted elsewhere, tripling the capacity of their largest-capacity Nano would be unlikely—in one shot. I agree that the increases will be more likely be incremental.

 

[fenixx]

Where's my 80 and 100 GB iPods for those of us who roll big?

+1


My current iPod (photo 30gb) is about to explode. 500 mb of space left... next time I'll get the largest model available.

*Crosses fingers for at least an 80gb*

 

[gauriemma]

The Nano is in need of a refresh whether or not a 12 GB version comes to fruition. It seems to me the Nano is getting a lot of pressure from the SanDisk Sansa e200 series. Pricing for the Sansa beats the Nano at all capacity points and often is available with rebates to obtain even lower price points. Additionally, there is a larger 6GB version available.

Do you know even one person who bought that SanDisk device? I think it's already come and gone, like the Sony 'Bean' thing, or whatever the hell that was.

 

[supremedesigner]

12Gb seems high, what about

2Gb Shuffle-99
4 Gb Nano-149
8GB Nano-199
10Gb Nano-249
True Video iPod 40Gb(touch screen)-299
True Video iPod 80Gb(tough screen)-399


That way people who dislike the touchscreen idea, still have a Nano with Click Wheel, and still hold lots of songs

Actually, I would like it to be called vPod instead of True Video iPod. It's a lot easier to say that. Don't ya'll agreed with me?