NBC and Time Warner Continue to Back Flash Over HTML5

[NAG]

This is just another negotiating tactic by NBC. They did this before with iTunes and they're doing it now with mobile video. It isn't just Apple. Hulu is blocked on mobile devices last time I checked (even if they have flash installed). The execs are trying get a better bargaining position with Apple so they can then use any gain from Apple to justify changes elsewhere (such as charging for Hulu...ever notice how the ABC app is free and was released at launch). They're pretending this is an Apple only thing so people don't catch on to what they're doing.

 

[AidenShaw]

just for you to know: nbc is owned by microsoft...

Post proof - or it isn't so.

(ps: Check NBC on Wikipedia and you see a very different story.

Check NBC's website and you see

NBC Universal is 80% owned by General Electric and 20% owned by Vivendi.

http://www.nbcuni.com/About_NBC_Universal/Company_Overview/

)

 

[Justinf79]

Look at the trouble companies are going through to try to get this weakness covered on iDevices: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19512_7-20006163-233.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

I'm actually a premium beta user of this. It's decent so far, and will get better. Can't wait until the iPad version comes out. This is a better solution than having flash run native on the device, destroying your battery life, IMO.

 

[Mike Reed]

I think you have that backwards. Apple continues to shoot themselves in the foot and screw their customer base over royally by not offering something that would be DEAD SIMPLE to add to the iPad. The iPad is not so CPU underpowered that it cannot handle flash video. It is purely Steve's maniacal ego that keeps Apple customers from being able to watch the videos they want to watch and NOTHING else. The fact that the rabid fan-boys on here say screw watching TV is predictable, but ultimately meaningless.

You have to remember, the iPad and the iPhone run basically the same OS. If they wanted to somehow optimize the iPad to make it run smoothly they would have to separate that from the iPhone's codebase and write things basically twice.

Although, come to think of it, they seem to think that's not a big deal when destroying any sort of cross platform ability for the developers that make their products worth while so I guess they'd be all for that.

Disclaimer: Sarcasm. Mostly. Well, there is some at least.

 

[S_S]

I have a theory.

NBC was just bought or is trying to be bought by Comcast, a cable company. Time Warner is a cable company. I don't think cable companies like the idea of media you can watch anywhere, on anything. They want you tied to your overpriced DVR set top box and monthly bill. They have no interest in making it easier not to have cable. It is in their self interest to keep their content off mobile devices. Flash or not. As soon as you open yourself up to Html 5 you no longer control where and when media gets viewed. The only reason they host video at all is to sell adds, most likely flash ads, on their page.

Open Html 5 is great for networks. They can cut out the middle man, deliver the content direct and keep all the ad dollars for themselves. Their content is instantly open to a large audience of existing devices both from Apple and many others, since NO MOBILE FLASH EXISTS YET, EXCEPT IN BETA. Networks have no intrest in limiting where their customers (viewers) can enjoy content.

Now, to be fair ABC is owned by Disney where Jobs sits on the board. So they might have a bias. But CBS is a case in point of a network selling ads to people without the need for a cable company and I'll bet that wakes Time Warner in the middle of the night in a cold sweat.

Imagine a future where internet is a commodity like gas and electric. You watch media direct from the studio. It almost comes full cycle back to the days of broadcast over the air television. Which is why a content creator should never be allowed to be owned by a content distributor. It's bad for the consumer by giving the cable company too much power over how their content is viewed and how much they can charge for it. Why do you think Comcast wants to buy a network in the first place. They see the writing on the wall.

P.s. Why should Apple spend any money to help Adobe make their proprietary software work in the entire industry? Instead they are throwing their weight behind an open standard. As a shareholder, that looks a lot better to me. That would be like you using a vacatiion day to go to work for your neighbor so that he can go interview to take your job. How Google twisted this around to make Apple the promoter of closed standards is just crazy. Google shouldn't be seen hanging with Adobe if they want to ride that high horse.

 

[Poll Smoker]

I just sent NBC and angry email

Here it is:

Welcome to the Future.

It is time to make your site work on an extremely popular device that allows people to "hold the web in their hands."

Make an app or fix your site for the iPad. And dont say its not possible, because it is.

DONT COMPLAIN!!! JUST DO IT!

People who've done it:
Facebook Video, YouTube, ABC, CBS, TED, CNN, Reuters, New York Times, Vimeo, Time, ESPN, MLB, Netflix, NPR, NHL, The White House, Virgin America, Sports Illustrated, Flickr, People Magazine, Nike, SPIN.com, National Geographic, CNN Money, MSNBC, Fox News, CNET TV, TV Guide, CW Network, Wall Street Journal, EXTRA, Ellen DeGeneres Show, InStyle, Rouxbe Cooking School, LIFE, The Onion, Brightcove, and many more

hmmmm... isn't that list a little intimidating!?

It's your turn now!

http://www.slideshare.net/jimjeffers/building-an-html5-video-player

Thanks!

What a f*cking loser!

Get a life!

 

[Correcto]

iTunes

Am I crazy, or can't you watch NBC etc. etc. through iTunes on the iDevices? Isn't it in the interest of NBC, Time Warner, and Apple to get you to watch it that way—by paying?

 

[BaldiMac]

Apps developed in the future don't exist in the present.

I doubt Apple is as short sighted as that. If you think that their main reason for not allowing Flash Player on iPhone OS devices is to avoid competition with free Flash apps, why would they provide other ways to deploy free apps to those devices?

Thus, today you have the singular choice of- say- a game for sale in the App store but not that same game (or similar clones) available in Flash.

Or a free game from the App Store. And in the near future, games created using open standards.

but iDevice owners can't access that stuff until the creators of that content comply with Apple's stance.

Owning an iPhone OS device doesn't prevent you from accessing that stuff on a computer. You know, from the device that that stuff was designed to be accessed on.

If it's not driven by business reasoning, why should Apple block that content?

Did you read Jobs "Thoughts on Flash"? It is a combination of business, technical, political and philosophical reasons.

If Apple allows Flash, then existing ad models based in Flash work with iDevices. Thus, Apple's own foray into mobile advertising is pressured- especially given Apple's demands on advertisers.

iAd is only an option for apps. Not websites. iAd is not competing with existing ad models based in Flash.

If Apple allows Flash, a great deal of content that is sold in the iTunes store is free (ad supported) on Flash-driven sites- including the very sites referenced in this thread.

Competing content is also available FREE in the App Store.

Apple hasn't shown much interest in an ad-based, free content model via iTunes (not much money in free content)

Did you already forget about iAd?

Flash is a big, well-established chunk of the Internet that Apple has arbitrarily decided to block from all iDevice owners.

There is nothing arbitrary about it. They support open standards on the web. Flash is not an open standard.

 

[Poll Smoker]

just for you to know: nbc is owned by microsoft...

*sigh*

Just for you to know, pick up a newspaper once in a while.

 

[Cinemagic]

just for you to know: nbc is owned by microsoft...

You should really spend a little time looking something up first. NBC was owned by General Electric and then late last year sold controlling interest to Comcast. Comcast will (or does) own 51% and GE owns 49%.

 

[Cinemagic]

Let's face it, Apple does try to bully other companies to go along with their (Steve Jobs') vision. If you have the clout, you get to bully. Just like the US government tries to bully other countries into a particular way of life. This doesn't make it right or wrong. Just the way it is. Personally, I think Jobs' had good vision, even though there are things I disagree with.

 

[BaldiMac]

Ouch I am so hurt LOL. Mention them shareholders since we all know they come before the customers nowadays.

Well, that is a publicly traded companies legal responsibility.

He lost BADLY in the 90's and he will lose BADLY this time around if he doesn't open his playbook up.

Jobs wasn't even with Apple when it was run into the ground in the 90s.

 

[wovel]

I actually had an employee at a mac store tell me there was nothing wrong with iTunes for Windows, my machine must just be filled with malware. I'm not sure what signal I might have given her that I was not very tech savvy, but apparently it was a pretty strong one for her to try that one on me.

If I were stronger willed, I would have left sans-MacBook Pro after being fed such ridiculousness. If only.

Koolaid indeed.

Kind of a meaningless anecdote without sharing what you actually told the "genius" was wrong. For example had you said: "Man Itunes for Windows Suxors and does not run at all on my leet Windoze rig!" The genius would have been correct.

I think you have that backwards. Apple continues to shoot themselves in the foot and screw their customer base over royally by not offering something that would be DEAD SIMPLE to add to the iPad. The iPad is not so CPU underpowered that it cannot handle flash video. It is purely Steve's maniacal ego that keeps Apple customers from being able to watch the videos they want to watch and NOTHING else. The fact that the rabid fan-boys on here say screw watching TV is predictable, but ultimately meaningless.

Dead simple to implement something that does not actually exist. Gotcha. Maybe they should cure cancer and implement world peace while they are at it.

 

[SandynJosh]

As Microsoft is a co-owner of NBC, I'm not surprised by their position on the use of Flash. Time-Warner's reaction is a little puzzling. One would think that going forward they may change their tune. Especially if they want to enter into the subscription market.

You may have missed the memo that Microsoft is also moving toward html5 for their phone, so I think we are seeing NBC's piss poor management shining through once more.

...and did you hear they are moving Jay Leno to mid-mornings?

 

[435713]

Well, that is a publicly traded companies legal responsibility.



Jobs wasn't even with Apple when it was run into the ground in the 90s.

IMO and many would agree, you take care of your customers first and as long as you do a good job of that the shareholder's being there will take care of itself. Hand in hand, not saying Apple does a bad job, their customer service is top notch and I believe they build the best computers in the industry today by far. Some things over the past couple years have been ignored as in things a lot of customers have asked for.

He was not there in the 90's I actually meant 80's. His vision again was good and for the most part has worked out today for Apple's % in the PC industry, but he lacked common sense if he really felt he would have beat MS in that time of the OS wars.

To me it still boils down to; they could be doing a lot better. Tendency for arrogance over there in Cupertino.

O and back at ya

 

[rfrmac]

Do you really think it is the same?

I agree. Having to code twice is a nightmare. (I'd rather describe it as inefficient and costly, but okay...)

Now tell me, how do you feel about Apple forcing developers to use their native Xcode tools, instead of allowing 3rd party tools (like Adobe's CS5) to easily reuse code and deploy apps on multiple platforms?

Apple is doing exactly the thing you hate: Having to code twice.

Do you really think it's the same? You have to be kidding.

 

[S_S]

IMO and many would agree, you take care of your customers first and as long as you do a good job of that the shareholder's being there will take care of itself. Hand in hand, not saying Apple does a bad job, their customer service is top notch and I believe they build the best computers in the industry today by far. Some things over the past couple years have been ignored as in things a lot of customers have asked for.

All I'm saying is that it doesn't make financial sense to subsidize Adobe's software development. Unless sales drop off so much to the point that it becomes profitable to do so.

I think flash will come to iPhone/iPad when the performance and battery life impact are negligible.

Oh, I and I really can't understand peoples outrage at Apple "bullying" the industry into using the OPEN HTML 5 standard. How is Google a saint when they want every phone, TV, and car on the plannet to run the same OS and push only their ADs. It's like a TV that only plays ads from one marketing company and all the shows are on that brands TV. Oh, and Google notes every show you watch so they can serve up ads that relate to what you are watching. That's why I fear Google. Apple doesn't want to control the only OS in town. The want decent market share and profit. Being number one isn't always the best way to make money. Just look at GM. Google's goal will always be to have 100% market share of the OS. And that's why it bothers me.

 

[squint0241]

Personally, I'm about tired of Apple dictating which or what standard the world should adopt to accommodate their desires. Is HTML-5 better than Flash? I don't know or really care from a user standpoint. As long as it works... Besides, I'm leaving the apple train and heading to the Android which is more open. They allow everything at the moment. If and when the industry moves to HTML-5 is their call. Android will support anything that rolls out to the user whereas Apple will always want it their way. They can go to Burger King if they want it their way. I'm moving to an open platform that says, hey! Do what you want whenever you want. We won't disapprove anything that customers might want. It's been a great 3 years with the iPhone, but it's time for a change. Besides, I always had to Jailbreak my iPhone to get what I want since Apple is so controlling. Not anymore! Sprint EVO 4G...here I come. Bring on the Flash android. In the end...a phone is just a phone. I have a Mac for everything else and that won't change...

 

[BaldiMac]

IMO and many would agree, you take care of your customers first and as long as you do a good job of that the shareholder's being there will take care of itself. Hand in hand, not saying Apple does a bad job, their customer service is top notch and I believe they build the best computers in the industry today by far. Some things over the past couple years have been ignored as in things a lot of customers have asked for.

Don't you think that there is a possibility that their success has something to do with the fact that they have ignored a lot of what customers have asked for? Queue Henry Ford quote.

He was not there in the 90's I actually meant 80's. His vision again was good and for the most part has worked out today for Apple's % in the PC industry, but he lacked common sense if he really felt he would have beat MS in that time of the OS wars.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Jobs left the company in 1985, before Windows 1.0 was even released! He had absolutely nothing to do with Apple losing to MS in the OS wars.

To me it still boils down to; they could be doing a lot better.

By ignoring the things that have gotten them where the are?

Tendency for arrogance over there in Cupertino.

Pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Mike Reed]

Kind of a meaningless anecdote without sharing what you actually told the "genius" was wrong. For example had you said: "Man Itunes for Windows Suxors and does not run at all on my leet Windoze rig!" The genius would have been correct.

No, actually they wouldn't have been correct. On a mid range HP with reasonable processor and ram specs, there's no reason for iTunes to run as poorly as it did. Whether or not I'm savvy, a dogma driven comment with no basis in fact retains it's nature.

Given that they used ports of Mac frameworks to build the UI and at least some of the code underneath, I think I'll let Steve Jobs explain why it runs like a dog:

We know from painful experience that letting a third party layer of software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in sub-standard apps and hinders the enhancement and progress of the platform.

 

[kallisti]

NutJobs has to understand that if he acts like the entire universe evolves around him, he'll get plenty if kicks in the teeth.

The entire universe is constantly evolving around all of us. Though evolution usually occurs at such a slow pace that we don't notice. A virus can evolve fairly rapidly though....

 

[Minimoose 360]

Disney will decide this battle.

 

[SandynJosh]

I think he maybe lost his mind as I pointed out in my previous post. I like how they KNOW they could sell a sh** load more Ipads if it had a few more features. Top notch CEO right there.

My Macbook was dangerously close to not being purchased for lack of ports, whole form over function BS. A better CEO could double or triple the amount Apple makes currently.

I'm comforted by the fact that you know so much more than the CEO that totally rebuilt Apple from near failure. I don't what you're doing flipping burgers when you should be selling yourself to Apple's board of directors.

 

[SandynJosh]

Personally, I'm about tired of Apple dictating which or what standard the world should adopt to accommodate their desires. Is HTML-5 better than Flash? I don't know or really care from a user standpoint. As long as it works...

"As long as it works." That's the whole point of Jobs' issue with Flash. When you've restarted your crashed Android for the nth time you will start to care from a user standpoint. When you start bemoaning how often you have to charge "little Droidie", you will start to care from a user standpoint.

Besides, I'm leaving the apple train and heading to the Android which is more open. They allow everything at the moment.

Some people, like Pinocchio, have to learn through experience that some boundaries are set for a reason.

If and when the industry moves to HTML-5 is their call. Android will support anything that rolls out to the user whereas Apple will always want it their way.

The smart money, Apple and Microsoft, see that as a bad plan for the overall user experience. Perhaps, since you are used to jailbreaking your iPhone, you are not the kind of customer that minds performance issues.

I'm moving to an open platform that says, hey! Do what you want whenever you want. We won't disapprove anything that customers might want.

I have to laugh at that. You might want to upgrade whatever OS your phone came out the factory with, but don't count on that happening unless you buy an iPhone. You might want to run the latest and greatest Android app, but that one doesn't work on your flavor of Android phone. Welcome to a whole new set of limitations.

It's been a great 3 years with the iPhone, but it's time for a change.

Hehehe...and 'change' you will get. Let me be the first to welcome you back to an iPhone.

Sprint EVO 4G...here I come. Bring on the Flash android. In the end...a phone is just a phone.

If "a phone is just a phone," what the heck have you just been complaining about???

 

[tkingart]

This is the site you love and hate at the same time. People here think they know everything, and are quick to throw insults and eager to reciprocate. All this stress over Flash?! I don't care for Flash, I have something that blocks it unless I click on it, but I'm not going to label people who do like Flash, that's just- childish.

NBC and TW said it was not financially feasible for them to do so at this time, that's fair enough. It doesn't mean they are dinosaurs in the media age- it means it is NOT financially feasible at this time. Is it that hard to um...understand? I've also seen it quoted elsewhere on these forums, that HTML5 just isn't where it needs to be yet, that maybe HTML6 or 7 will be; by re-quoting that- I have no doubt some people will call me an Apple hater or make the stupid Koolaid comment, which is about the most childish thing I've read in a longtime.

I do have a gripe I want to get out here since people keep preaching about quality user experience on the iPhone/Touch, yet nobody seems to remember when our iTouchs and iPhones were "bricking" for 2 months, and when we tried to complain about it on the Apple forums the threads were removed. The whole thing seemed to have been swept under the rug. I can honestly say that I have never been so frustrated with a device in my life, bar during the iPhone 2.x bricking months.

Also, the screen on my 3-4 month old 21.5" iMac is now displaying major areas of defectiveness. The upper-left corner looks like "smudges" behind the LCD, it started out as a small unevenly lit area, now it is very big taking up the entire upper-left side of the screen. I've never seen anything like it before. Not to mention, the WiFi cannot stay connected since 10.6.3 update, I have to use the Ethernet port to be on the internet.

Just yesterday, I started downloading China Wars Lite app, and it would not finish installing. It was locked in the installation process for around 24 hours, until the next day for no apparent reason, it completed. During that time I could not stop the downloading and delete it, making my iTouch useless as it staggered horrendously to go page to page.

Yeah, great quality user-experiences. Thanks.