Netflix to Begin Cracking Down on Password Sharing in Early 2023

[EuroChilli]

I'm not certain breaking a rule one-time will get you cut off. A late payment will not get you cut off. Getting caught once for a torrent server probably wouldn't get you cut off. I mean you could lobby so that any minor infraction from your ISP will get you an instant deactivation of service. That seems to be what you want Netflix to do.

Netflix according to posters here has plenty of competition.

Sure. Let's be clear though. According to (some) MR posters Apple has been doomed since 2011.

I was referring to Enron, and pre-paid ISPs, like the one I’m with right now. ‘Uncapped’ 4G, for €40/month. No pay, no service. 300GB download limit, but no limits on streaming. Simple. And they literally don’t care who I share it with. The only catch is whoever uses it needs to be within range of the wifi transmitted by the 4G modem. I can also move the modem and use the service anywhere in the country, at will, where other 4G providers explicitly prohibit, and enforce the moving of their 4G modems.

I am welcome to try using my 4G modem in another country, but it simply won’t work, despite EU roaming agreements. In this case though, there is a clause concerning such in their TOS. Even if I don’t agree, I can’t do jack about it, other than not use them at all. My primary phone provider on the other hand does allow full free EU roaming, that much is clear. What is also clear is they don’t allow hotspotting. I have tried, but it simply doesn’t work, although I do have a multi e-sim phone, so problem solved.

 

[I7guy]

I was referring to Enron, and pre-paid ISPs, like the one I’m with right now. ‘Uncapped’ 4G, for €40/month. No pay, no service. 300GB download limit, but no limits on streaming. Simple. And they literally don’t care who I share it with.

Sure, because the connection is capped. I guarantee if you had unlimited download and you ran a public wifi hotspot from your residential service your isp would care if they found out. And even so, attempting to level the playing field with other analogies of usage is not relevant.

The only catch is whoever uses it needs to be within range of the wifi transmitted by the 4G modem. I can also move the modem and use the service anywhere in the country, at will, where other 4G providers explicitly prohibit, and enforce the moving of their 4G modems.

Because you are capped it's irrelevant how many people use your hotspot.

I am welcome to try using my 4G modem in another country, but it simply won’t work, despite EU roaming agreements. In this case though, there is a clause concerning such in their TOS. Even if I don’t agree, I can’t do jack about it, other than not use them at all. My phone provider on the other hand does allow full EU roaming, that much is clear. What is also clear is they don’t allow hotspotting. I have tried, but it simply doesn’t work.

The above analogy, isn't really an equivalent one to what Netflix is doing.

 

[Mainsail]

Is this an appeal to hyperbole? Some unknown situation that hasn't occurred yet. If your military tenants legal address is the apartment that is rented, no problem, right? The TOS of netflix doesn't imply you have to use the service at the "home location". It's true what netflix should do, but I also should be able to give my drivers license and health care card to someone else and let the them use the hospitals service, because I paid for the service and I'm not using it...right? (yes, a hyperbolic example for sure)

My point is that Netflix can not verify and enforce this ridiculous “household” concept through an algorithm. And, you are just reinforcing that point. So, now the user needs to provide Netflix with proof of legal residence? And, how does Netflix know that the device being used away from the home IP address is being used by the person that is providing proof of residence? What a cluster! Not Hyperbolic at all. Enforcing this stupid “household” TOS, which was probably written by a team of lawyers, is going to annoy the crap out of customers and cost Netflix a bunch of money trying to verify the unverifiable. Doomed to fail because of the many and varied ways people live and use technology away from their homes.

Netflix simplest customer friendly mechanism is to just limit the number of simultaneous streams and then offer the customer various pricing options for 2, 3, 4, streams.

 

[turbineseaplane]

So, now the user needs to provide Netflix with proof of legal residence?

I know you are just using this as an example (an absurd one of course), but could you imagine?

lol -- the cancellations would be off the charts ... and talk about "none of their business".

I'm laughing just thinking of a headline like "Netflix moves to verify actual residence status and locations for users" .. and just how patently absurd it would be.

I sort of hope they try harder and harder and reap what they sow here.
They seem to have lost the way of late

 

[I7guy]

My point is that Netflix can not verify and enforce this ridiculous “household” concept through an algorithm.

Well I think Netflix potentially can and get it right mostly and out the biggest abusers.

And, you are just reinforcing that point. So, now the user needs to provide Netflix with proof of legal residence?

Nope, that's not what I said. I said Netflix probably won't care. (Again a hypothetical example to a hyperbolic point.)

And, how does Netflix know that the device being used away from the home IP address is being used by the person that is providing proof of residence?

How about the person is using an iphone on LTE? And the mac address is in Netflixs' database as being used from the home address.

What a cluster! Not Hyperbolic at all. Enforcing this stupid “household” TOS, which was probably written by a team of lawyers, is going to annoy the crap out of customers and cost Netflix a bunch of money trying to verify the unverifiable.

Then it's on Netflix to crash and burn. Correct?

Doomed to fail because of the many and varied ways people live and use technology away from their homes.

Then it will fail.

Netflix simplest customer friendly mechanism is to just limit the number of simultaneous streams and then offer the customer various pricing options for 2, 3, 4, streams.

No, that's the definition of abuse. I don't blame Netflix on this definition of household. But you are right, they will limit the streams, in addition to some type of policies at some point with the definition of a household.

 

[I7guy]

I know you are just using this as an example (an absurd one of course), but could you imagine?

lol -- the cancellations would be off the charts ... and talk about "none of their business".

Then that's on Netflix. Unless you are a netflix shareholder, let them learn from their lessons.

I'm laughing just thinking of a headline like "Netflix moves to verify actual residence status and locations for users" .. and just how patently absurd it would be.

Pretty funny, except it won't happen except here on MacRumors.

I sort of hope they try harder and harder and kill themselves off.

Sure, anything could happen to any of us. But I would never wish the unpleasant on anybody, even if they bring it on themselves.

They seem to have lost the way of late

Then they will pay the ultimate price and be another blackberry.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I always marvel at those who twist their logic into pretzel shapes in order to defend big corporations

 

[turbineseaplane]

Sure, anything could happen to any of us. But I would never wish the unpleasant on anybody, even if they bring it on themselves.

They aren't a starving student -- they are a publicly traded corporation
I absolutely wish for those entities to sleep in the beds they make

Any shadow of how we idealize and wish for capitalism to be (even though it so often isn't) counts on these failures and accountability from poor and misguided management and decisions.

(spare me any kind of "but I don't root for it" retort -- I do -- it's a business, not a homeless person down on their luck)

 

[I7guy]

They aren't a starving student -- they are a publicly traded corporation
I absolutely wish for those entities to sleep in the beds they make

Any shadow of how we idealize and wish for capitalism to be (even though it so often isn't) counts on these failures and accountability from poor and misguided management and decisions.

(spare me any kind of "but I don't root for it" retort -- I do -- it's a business, not a homeless person down on their luck)

If they fall on their own petard so be it. I guess the expression "do unto others..." applies even though they are a publicly traded corporation with policies that not everyone likes.

Then vote with your $$$ if you don't like the TOS.

 

[Mainsail]

Well I think Netflix potentially can and get it right mostly and out the biggest abusers.

Nope, that's not what I said. I said Netflix probably won't care. (Again a hypothetical example to a hyperbolic point.)

I think the difference between our viewpoints is that you see the exceptions as rare and hypothetical, so an algorithm can cover almost all situations. I view the number of legitimate varied living arrangements and mobile tech situations as ubiquitous and not in the least hypothetical.

If Netflix is going to enforce this notion of “household”, they will have to care and require verification, which will drop them down a rabbit hole of asking for all kinds of ridiculous documentation to satisfy their lawyers. Great for the lawyers. Crappy for the customers and the business.

 

[I7guy]

I think the difference between our viewpoints is that you see the exceptions as rare and hypothetical, so an algorithm can cover almost all situations. I view the number of legitimate varied living arrangements and mobile tech situations as ubiquitous and not in the least hypothetical.

And neither can be proved or disproved. You're looking at what could happen in the future based on your expectations, through your own lens, while I'm doing the same. The twain isn't meeting here. But I support netflix to run their business the way they want and I support consumers voting with their $$$.

If Netflix is going to enforce this notion of “household”, they will have to care and require verification,

No they won't. They can used previously collected data and geolocation of ip addresses as an approximate guide. Plus your credit card is proof, which is required when you sign-up.

which will drop them down a rabbit hole of asking for all kinds of ridiculous documentation to satisfy their lawyers.

No it won't for the above reasons.

Great for the lawyers. Crappy for the customers and the business.

Everything is great for the lawyers. And if the customers have it crappy enough, they will vote with their $$$.

 

[Mainsail]

No, that's the definition of abuse. I don't blame Netflix on this definition of household. But you are right, they will limit the streams, in addition to some type of policies at some point with the definition of a household.

How is that abuse? Netflix sells me a simultaneous streaming plan, and I use it as I see fit. Netflix would builds their rate structure accordingly. And I would share my passwords accordingly, since I don’t want to be bumped from my own account.

Nothing abusive or nefarious about it.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I can't even fathom being asked to "prove" my residence/location status to a middling video streaming App

Au revoir would be my reply

 

[I7guy]

How is that abuse? Netflix sells me a simultaneous streaming plan, and I use it as I see fit. Netflix would builds their rate structure accordingly. And I would share my passwords accordingly, since I don’t want to be bumped from my own account.

Nothing abusive or nefarious about it.

If you believe the policy is you pay for 4 streams and you can share your password ad-infinitum with people outside of your household, that's abuse of the TOS.

 

[I7guy]

It isn't -- unless one uses pretzel logic

It isn't in a world with no rules or regulations.

It takes pretzel logic of the highest order to break a TOS you know you are breaking (which you agreed to) and then justify or dismiss it with I can do what I please.

 

[Mainsail]

No they won't. They can used previously collected data and geolocation of ip addresses as an approximate guide. Plus your credit card is proof, which is required when you sign-up.

Again, this is where we disagree because you believe the approximate guide will satisfy. I believe it will not because the number of living and usage situations are too many and varied to satisfy enforcement of the stupid “household” TOS without asking for additional documentation, which is a rabbit hole of crap.

Credit card data from the purchaser does nothing to eliminate sharing passwords outside of the “household”.

 

[I7guy]

Again, this is where we disagree because you believe the approximate guide will satisfy. I believe it will not because the number of living and usage situations are too many and varied to satisfy enforcement of the stupid “household” TOS without asking for additional documentation, which is a rabbit hole of crap.

Yes we disagree on this point. You have defined a persona of a military person as the cause celebre of why Netflix will fail. I'm saying that same persona will sail under the radar - because it's a legitimate case and netflix will know it's legitimate.

Credit card data from the purchaser does nothing to eliminate sharing passwords outside of the “household”.

Never said it would.

 

[Mainsail]

If you believe the policy is you pay for 4 streams and you can share your password ad-infinitum with people outside of your household, that's abuse of the TOS.

No, I am saying they should eliminate the “household” notion in the TOS and simply use the simultaneous streams as the enforcement mechanism. Then, there is no conflict. As for sharing password ad-infinitum, now who is being hyperbolic. Why the hell would I do that when I have a limit on the number of streams? I would get blocked at every turn.

 

[EuroChilli]

If they fall on their own petard so be it. I guess the expression "do unto others..." applies even though they are a publicly traded corporation with policies that not everyone likes.

Then vote with your $$$ if you don't like the TOS.

Nah, I’ll just vote with my obfuscated VPN with dedicated IP instead. The same VPN all my extended family and friends are using. Netflix really seem to think they are the smartest kids on the block…

 

[turbineseaplane]

Netflix must be worried that if they just started charging what they actually need to charge per simultaneous screen, their business might be unviable.

Very little else makes sense about the contortions and restrictions

 

[I7guy]

No, I am saying they should eliminate the “household” notion in the TOS and simply use the simultaneous streams as the enforcement mechanism. Then, there is no conflict. As for sharing password ad-infinitum, now who is being hyperbolic. Why the hell would I do that when I have a limit on the number of streams? I would get blocked at every turn.

Netflix is probably not going to do what you want. This notion of household isn't new to netflix. It's a way to kick subscribers who abuse the TOS off of netflix with much less of a legal battle, imo.

Nah, I’ll just vote with my obfuscated VPN with dedicated IP instead. The same VPN all my extended family and friends are using. Netflix really seem to think they are the smartest kids on the block…

My isp has a tv app. I can watch TV in my home from the app. I've tried to use openvpn from outside the house and my tv app knows this - the same way Netflix knows when a vpn is being used and is not blocking vpn usage.

 

[EuroChilli]

Because you are capped it's irrelevant how many people use your hotspot.

Right, so Netflix caps me at 2 simultaneous streams. What’s the problem?

And btw my current ISP doesn’t cap streaming volume, just the speed @30Mbps. How many simultaneous streams is up to me.

 

[Mainsail]

Yes we disagree on this point. You have defined a persona of a military person as the cause celebre of why Netflix will fail. I'm saying that same persona will sail under the radar - because it's a legitimate case and netflix will know it's legitimate.

Never said it would.

No. I said the number of living situations and mobile usage scenarios are many and varied. Military service is just one example. I have provided several others. Others on this thread have provided numerous additional examples.

Netflix is not omniscient. Usage data alone won’t satisfy. How will Netflix verify these are legitimate cases unless they request additional documentation? No, don’t answer that. I get it. Just wave your arms and claim that it will rarely be an issue and the algorithm will take care of it. Agree to disagree. We are going around in circles.

 

[EuroChilli]

Credit card data from the purchaser does nothing to eliminate sharing passwords outside of the “household”.

Why do you think I use PayPal as much as possible

 

[MNLondon]

Popular streaming service Netflix is planning to put an end to password sharing starting in early 2023, according to a new report from The Wall Street Journal. There have been persistent rumors about the end of password sharing, and Netflix has been exploring methods to crack down on it, but the changes are set to officially go into effect next year.

Netflix has long known that password sharing is a problem affecting its profits, but the uptick in subscriptions in 2020 allowed the company to avoid addressing it. With revenue falling this year and Netflix's first subscriber loss in 10 years, Netflix CEO Reed Hastings decided it was time to act on the issue, which had been put off for too long.

Starting in 2023, Netflix plans to ask people who share accounts with others outside of their household to pay to do so. Netflix has been testing add-on payments for password sharing in some Latin American countries, charging around $3 extra. In these countries, the primary account owner must provide a verification code to anyone outside the household who wants to access the account, with Netflix repeatedly asking for the code until a monthly fee is paid to add non-household subscribers.

A similar tactic could be used in the United States, with Netflix possibly charging just below the cost of its $6.99 ad-supported plan for non-household subscribers who share someone's plan. Netflix wants those who have a shared password to sign up for their own subscription.

Netflix will enforce password sharing rules through IP addresses, device IDs, and account activity. To keep from alienating customers, Netflix may slowly phase out password sharing rather than putting a stop to it all at once. One method Netflix reportedly considered was adding pay-per-view content that could make users not want to share their passwords with people who might rent content, but Netflix ultimately decided against it.

The Netflix terms of service have never allowed for multi-household sharing, but Netflix has looked the other way for so long that implementing fees for offering account access to friends and family could upset some of its subscribers. An estimated 222 million paying households share passwords with an additional 100 million households that Netflix wants to monetize.

Pricing on Netflix plans includes watching on multiple supported devices in addition to affecting streaming quality, but Netflix does not want multiple viewers watching outside of the same household. Netflix's premium plan, for example, allows for Ultra HD 4K streaming and support for watching on four supported devices like iPhones, iPads, and Macs at one time, as long as those devices are owned by people in the same household.

In addition to boosting revenue by eliminating password sharing, Netflix has also introduced a more affordable ad-supported tier that is priced at $6.99 per month in the United States.

Article Link: Netflix to Begin Cracking Down on Password Sharing in Early 2023

I pay for the top tier service at £15 a month, and spent time in two different households. I don't see why I should have to be charged even more money for what is basically Blockbuster, mostly including Bargain bin films and TV). I like the Apple model, where everything is good quality, and why they have won so many awards. I wish Netflix would cut out the rubbish, like they did when they first set up their service, but I guess it won't happen.