Netflix to Begin Cracking Down on Password Sharing in Early 2023

[EuroChilli]

Netflix is probably not going to do what you want. This notion of household isn't new to netflix. It's a way to kick subscribers who abuse the TOS off of netflix with much less of a legal battle, imo.

My isp has a tv app. I can watch TV in my home from the app. I've tried to use openvpn from outside the house and my tv app knows this - the same way Netflix knows when a vpn is being used and is not blocking vpn usage.

Key words, ‘obfuscated VPN servers’. Look them up.

And a way to kick subscribers off who abuse their TOS? Ok, I’m waiting….no, the notion of houshold isn’t new to Netflix, but the definition and interpretation of such has changed, and will continue to do so. They seem to not know this, or their lawyers live on another planet.

And what exactly is it you think I want Netflix to do? I’ll tell you what; they need to make up their damn minds! If I’m able to keep doing something with zero repercussions I’m going to keep doing it.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Netflix loved all the account sharing when it was helping build buzz and growth

They have only themselves to blame at this point

 

[compwiz1202]

Key words, ‘obfuscated VPN servers’. Look them up.

And a way to kick subscribers off who abuse their TOS? Ok, I’m waiting….no, the notion of houshold isn’t new to Netflix, but the definition and interpretation of such has changed, and will continue to do so. They seem to not know this, or their lawyers live on another planet.

And what exactly is it you think I want Netflix to do? I’ll tell you what; they need to make up their damn minds! If I’m able to keep doing something with zero repercussions I’m going to keep doing it.

And they most likely don't want to kick paying subs off unless they are using a horrendous amount of bandwidth that's making them lose. They just want to scare people into thinking the worst will happen so they stop sharing and lower bandwidth use = more profit for NF. They will most likely pick a few to boot and make sure it gets spread far and wide in the media to scare people more

 

[I7guy]

Key words, ‘obfuscated VPN servers’. Look them up.

And a way to kick subscribers off who abuse their TOS? Ok, I’m waiting….no, the notion of houshold isn’t new to Netflix, but the definition and interpretation of such has changed, and will continue to do so. They seem to not know this, or their lawyers live on another planet.

And what exactly is it you think I want Netflix to do? I’ll tell you what; they need to make up their damn minds! If I’m able to keep doing something with zero repercussions I’m going to keep doing it.

You can do what you want. Nobody is stopping you. If you are legit, than no worries. Right?

 

[I7guy]

No. I said the number of living situations and mobile usage scenarios are many and varied. Military service is just one example. I have provided several others. Others on this thread have provided numerous additional examples.

I have provide some wet finger in the air responses to how Netflix could know these are legitimate use cases.

Netflix is not omniscient.

No, they probably use past history, ip addresses, device information, mac addresses, credit card information, machine learning to aid in the decision making process.

Usage data alone won’t satisfy.

In your opinion.

How will Netflix verify these are legitimate cases unless they request additional documentation?

I've already put some ideas on the table, accept them or not.

No, don’t answer that. I get it. Just wave your arms and claim that it will rarely be an issue and the algorithm will take care of it. Agree to disagree.

I don't even think we are agreeing to disagree. We are just disagreeing.

We are going around in circles.

Yes, because neither will accept that others viewpoint.

 

[I7guy]

Right, so Netflix caps me at 2 simultaneous streams. What’s the problem?

And btw my current ISP doesn’t cap streaming volume, just the speed @30Mbps. How many simultaneous streams is up to me.

As long as the users are members of your household, there isn't any. That's what you agreed to when you signed up. Guaranteed.

 

[EuroChilli]

As long as the users are members of your household, there isn't any. That's what you agreed to when you signed up. Guaranteed.

Ok then, I declare all users of my Netflix account are members of my ‘houshold’. Does that work for you or Netflix? If anyone thinks I’m lying, prove it. I’ve seen all seasons of Suits, so I know how to argue like a good lawyer.

 

[I7guy]

Ok then, I declare all users of my Netflix account are members of my ‘houshold’. Does that work for you or Netflix?

"Officer - I declare I wasn't speeding. Does that work for you and the courts?"

 

[EuroChilli]

And they most likely don't want to kick paying subs off unless they are using a horrendous amount of bandwidth that's making them lose. They just want to scare people into thinking the worst will happen so they stop sharing and lower bandwidth use = more profit for NF. They will most likely pick a few to boot and make sure it gets spread far and wide in the media to scare people more

But here's the kicker, Netflix have offloaded/cached a lot of their content with local ISPs around the world. In other words, this means Netflix pays zero for extra bandwidth, only what it cost to send the content to the respective ISPs, once. And even then, I'm sure they have a pretty good agreement with AWS who provide their core infrastructure, which I'm willing to bet includes unmetered/unlimited bandwidth. But how would you use a horrendous amount of bandwidth anyway? 4 streams is 4 streams. Nowhere in their TOS does it say you can't watch all 4, in the same 'household', 24/7.

Netflix on AWS: Case Studies, Videos, Innovator Stories

Netflix is a video on demand streaming service with over 280 million members in more than 190 countries. Using Amazon Web Services (AWS), Netflix innovates with speed and delivers best-in-class entertainment consistently. AWS provides Netflix with compute, storage, and infrastructure that allow...

aws.amazon.com

How Netflix Works With ISPs Around the Globe to Deliver a Great Viewing Experience - About Netflix

about.netflix.com

And they still want to charge us what they are. I've said earlier, I paid €25 for a year of Amazon Prime, and there is enough on there to keep me entertained for at least an hour or 2 per week. The rest of the time I'm kinda not sitting on my donkey watching TV...newsflash, lockdown is over.

 

[EuroChilli]

"Officer - I declare I wasn't speeding. Does that work for you and the courts?"

I guess the court will decide, assuming the occifer in question has proof of alleged speeding.

 

[I7guy]

I guess the court will decide, assuming the occifer in question has proof of alleged speeding.

An Update to Paid Sharing - About Netflix

Over the last 15 years, we’ve worked hard to build a streaming service that’s easy to use, including for people who travel or live together. It’s great that our members love Netflix movies and TV shows so much they want to share them more broadly.

about.netflix.com

Netflix will no longer allow you to share passwords for free

Currently, a Netflix account holder can add up to five profiles to their account. Now, those profiles will become sub-accounts that cost money.

www.cbsnews.com

You can do what you want, however these are the new rules.

 

[I7guy]

But here's the kicker, Netflix have offloaded/cached a lot of their content with local ISPs around the world. In other words, this means Netflix pays zero for extra bandwidth, only what it cost to send the content to the respective ISPs, once. And even then, I'm sure they have a pretty good agreement with AWS who provide their core infrastructure, which I'm willing to bet includes unmetered/unlimited bandwidth. But how would you use a horrendous amount of bandwidth anyway? 4 streams is 4 streams. Nowhere in their TOS does it say you can't watch all 4, in the same 'household', 24/7.

Netflix on AWS: Case Studies, Videos, Innovator Stories

Netflix is a video on demand streaming service with over 280 million members in more than 190 countries. Using Amazon Web Services (AWS), Netflix innovates with speed and delivers best-in-class entertainment consistently. AWS provides Netflix with compute, storage, and infrastructure that allow...

aws.amazon.com

How Netflix Works With ISPs Around the Globe to Deliver a Great Viewing Experience - About Netflix

about.netflix.com

And they still want to charge us what they are. I've said earlier, I paid €25 for a year of Amazon Prime, and there is enough on there to keep me entertained for at least an hour or 2 per week. The rest of the time I'm kinda not sitting on my donkey watching TV...newsflash, lockdown is over.

What they are going to do,imo, in the same house has the same ip address (or public ip for that line). Multiple streams with different ip addresses will be disallowed.

Netflix clarify reports they're set to clamp down on users who share their account with others

Netflix have stated that they're "not working with/partnering with Synamedia" amid recent reports that they're clamping down on users that share accounts

www.joe.ie

 

[EuroChilli]

What they are going to do,imo, in the same house has the same ip address (or public ip for that line). Multiple streams with different ip addresses will be disallowed.

I'm beginning to think you work for Netflix....otherwise what do you actually care?

Ever heard of dynamic IPs? Most ISPs use them, and even more so 4G/mobile providers. But here's something even more interesting; in Europe, we can roam around the EU, some 27 odd countries, for no extra cost. But when I'm in say Spain with my Belgian cell phone, I still maintain a Belgian IP, so if I had unlimited data on my phone, I could watch Belgian Netflix anywhere in the EU, without a VPN. On the other hand, I could get an obfuscated VPN with a dedicated IP and watch any countries Netflix from anywhere in the world. Now if Netflix doesn't like me allegedly doing any of the above, they know what they can do...

I think Netflix know they are treading on thin ice and are taking a huge risk, hence the reason they have been testing these things in 3rd world countries, lest they roll this out in the rest of the world and lose more than they gain.

Anyhow, I'm still waiting for them to do whatever it is they are apparently planning on doing....

So one more time, I7guy, can you actually prove I'm in violation of Netflix TOS? Can you prove I even have it in the first place? Maybe I am just fishing to see if I'd like to get Netflix.

 

[I7guy]

I'm beginning to think you work for Netflix....otherwise what do you actually care?

That's disingenuous. It's as if I would post, you are posting because you want to figure out a way around the rules.

Ever heard of dynamic IPs? Most ISPs use them, and even more so 4G/mobile providers. But here's something even more interesting; in Europe, we can roam around the EU, some 27 odd countries, for no extra cost. But when I'm in say Spain with my Belgian cell phone, I still maintain a Belgian IP, so if I had unlimited data on my phone, I could watch Belgian Netflix anywhere in the EU, without a VPN. On the other hand, I could get an obfuscated VPN with a dedicated IP and watch any countries Netflix from anywhere in the world. Now if Netflix doesn't like me allegedly doing any of the above, they know what they can do...

It's up to you. Seems like the links posted have some additional information that you may have not yet read. So this is what I understand. Netflix is making this easy, password sharing is going away. An account can have multiple profiles and each profile has one stream attached. And each profile is going to cost a few bucks. If you want to game the system, you can cancel your subscription or be prepared to share a profile and wait your turn.

I think Netflix know they are treading on thin ice and are taking a huge risk, hence the reason they have been testing these things in 3rd world countries, lest they roll this out in the rest of the world and lose more than they gain.

Think it's done deal in 2023.

Anyhow, I'm still waiting for them to do whatever it is they are apparently planning on doing....

You'll find out.

So one more time, I7guy, can you actually prove I'm in violation of Netflix TOS? Can you prove I even have it in the first place? Maybe I am just fishing to see if I'd like to get Netflix.

I don't have to prove anything. According to the above, things will change in 2023 and then you get to make your choice pay up or drop out.

 

[Realityck]

I'm beginning to think you work for Netflix....otherwise what do you actually care?

Ever heard of dynamic IPs? Most ISPs use them, and even more so 4G/mobile providers. But here's something even more interesting; in Europe, we can roam around the EU, some 27 odd countries, for no extra cost. But when I'm in say Spain with my Belgian cell phone, I still maintain a Belgian IP, so if I had unlimited data on my phone, I could watch Belgian Netflix anywhere in the EU, without a VPN. On the other hand, I could get an obfuscated VPN with a dedicated IP and watch any countries Netflix from anywhere in the world. Now if Netflix doesn't like me allegedly doing any of the above, they know what they can do...

I think Netflix know they are treading on thin ice and are taking a huge risk, hence the reason they have been testing these things in 3rd world countries, lest they roll this out in the rest of the world and lose more than they gain.

They are likely testing it in those 3rd world countries because of the decreased lifestyles people lead compared to countries that rely on technology devices. Also because they would have people living in less accommodating existences that would be more likely to try to get something free if they could.

You still tracking people by MAC addresses that are unique to manufacturer and device connected. Just because they have IP addresses that change as they roam doesn't mask them building a connectivity profile of the subscriber.

I don't think Netflix is as concerned about roaming devices as much as people's stationary TVs that seldom move that can be used to determine if the subscriber needs to be queried about his family sharing.

 

[Realityck]

Think it's done deal in 2023.

Disney is likely right behind Netflix. It won't be long to other larger companies will all be doing the same.

 

[Realityck]

Ok then, I declare all users of my Netflix account are members of my ‘houshold’. Does that work for you or Netflix? If anyone thinks I’m lying, prove it. I’ve seen all seasons of Suits, so I know how to argue like a good lawyer.

While I agree with the vagueness of "household" arguments, your argument of claiming all users are members of your family would be very easy to verify if true or not. You can't even use a browser that blocks cookies with their service.

Netflix breaks its data collection into four categories:

1. Information you provide to them such as contact and billing information.
2. Information they collect while you are actively using the service, including content selection and customer service interaction.
3. Information from partner companies like your internet provider.
4. Information from other sources.

 

[EuroChilli]

That's disingenuous. It's as if I would post, you are posting because you want to figure out a way around the rules.

What makes you think I haven't already figured out a way and am currently doing what I said? You never answered one of my questions; have you ever broken any 'rules'?

It's up to you. Seems like the links posted have some additional information that you may have not yet read. So this is what I understand. Netflix is making this easy, password sharing is going away. An account can have multiple profiles and each profile has one stream attached. And each profile is going to cost a few bucks. If you want to game the system, you can cancel your subscription or be prepared to share a profile and wait your turn.

Is password sharing really going away? Fine. I never shared mine in the first place. I don't even know it myself, but my Mac Keychain does. I personally logged in on other devices not necessarily owned by me, but which are often used by me, using the QR code and my phone. And gaming the system? How so exactly? If you are going to accuse me of attempting to do that you better have conclusive proof.

I have read most of these articles and many others already, although the journalistic 'talent' within most of them makes my head hurt. But let's see:


"It’s great that our members love Netflix movies and TV shows so much they want to share them more broadly. But today’s widespread account sharing between households undermines our long term ability to invest in and improve our service."

Thats great, you first love us for sharing your product, now you do a complete 180 turn, after what's it? 15 years? So it suited you for that long? Guess the competition is finally catching up and making you very nervous.

And oh shame, being undermined. Doing business, and life in general often isn't fair. Deal with it.

But ok, I currently pay €13,49 for 2 streams in one account. So if that then gets split into 2 accounts with one stream each for €6,74 a piece, no problem 1 of those accounts with a single stream will still need 2 profiles, for my wife and I. If she wants Netflix, I can have Prime, or visa versa. Or..... we watch something together. Now there's a thought, a family being a..... family. I remember the days of going to rent movies on BetaMax and VHS, and my whole family of 5 would watch the same thing, at the same time. Are my wife and I even allowed to watch the same Netflix show together, or must we pay extra for each stream and watch separately?



"We value our members (I doubt that), and recognise that they have many entertainment choices. (ding ding ding!!! It's about time you recognise that fact) So we’re working hard to make 'great' TV shows and films (Great? But that's highly debatable. Ozark, Stranger Things, that's about it really, for me anyway), and to be as thoughtful as possible about how we charge for use across multiple homes. (don't think too long and hard, the competition is waiting) We will not make changes in other countries until we better understand what’s easiest for our members." (ok, maybe we're onto something, you may actually care what your customers think. What's easiest? Change nothing, continue raking in several million per year. Throw a bit more product placements into your own productions if you really have to. Done)


"Netflix is changing its policy on password sharing" Changing you say? So we have been officially allowed to share until now? The word changing implies that another policy of sorts existed before the new one. So what was the old one exactly?

Again, some journos really need to get their facts straight. I would hazard a guess Netflix isn't changing anything, they are instead finally sitting up and deciding to do enforce what has already been policy since the beginning.

Think it's done deal in 2023.

You think, or you know? When in 2023? I want exact dates, now.

You'll find out.

I wait with baited breath.

I don't have to prove anything. According to the above, things will change in 2023 and then you get to make your choice pay up or drop out.

I'm not doing any dropping. They can do the dropping.

 

[I7guy]

What makes you think I haven't already figured out a way and am currently doing what I said? You never answered one of my questions; have you ever broken any 'rules'?

Sure. I'm waiting to pony up the additional family members on my account. One of them not living at home, but their legal address is here. But it won't matter a nonce based on the way netflix will restructure their model.

Is password sharing really going away? Fine. I never shared mine in the first place. I personally logged in on other devices not necessarily owned by me, but which are often used by me.

Well the new rule is one per stream. So if you are watching using someone elses account, it's still one stream per.

I have read most of these articles already. Lets see:

"It’s great that our members love Netflix movies and TV shows so much they want to share them more broadly. But today’s widespread account sharing between households undermines our long term ability to invest in and improve our service."

Thats great, you first love us for sharing your product, now you do a complete 180 turn, after what's it? 15 years? So it suited you for that long? Guess the competition is finally catching up and making you very nervous.

By "you" you mean netflix? Why would I care? I am going to continue my Netflix subscription through this transition.

And oh shame, being undermined. Doing business, and life in general isn't fair. Deal with it.

But ok, I currently pay €13,49 for 2 streams in one account. So if that then gets split into 2 accounts with one stream each for €6,74 each, no problem 1 of those accounts with a single stream will still need 2 profiles, for my wife and I. If she wants Netflix, I can have Prime, or visa versa. Her father gets the other Netflix account.

I guess it's up to you to partition the account they way you want.

"We value our members (I doubt that), and recognise that they have many entertainment choices. (ding ding ding!!! It's about time you recognise that fact) So we’re working hard to make 'great' TV shows and films (great? that's highly debatable. Ozark, Stranger Things, that's about it really, for me anyway), and to be as thoughtful as possible about how we charge for use across multiple homes. (don't think too long and hard, the competition is waiting) We will not make changes in other countries until we better understand what’s easiest for our members." (ok, maybe we're onto something, you may actually care what your customers think. What's easiest? Change nothing, continue raking in several million per year. Throw a bit more product placements into your own productions. Done)


"Netflix is changing its policy on password sharing" Changing you say? So we have been officially allowed to share until now? The word changing implies that another policy of sorts existed before the new one. So what was the old one exactly?

The old policy, was I believe account share allowed. Now account sharing not allowed.

You think, or you know? When in 2023? I want exact dates, now.

Ask Netflix. I'm getting my source material the same way others are....by researching.

I wait with baited breath.



I'm not doing any dropping. They can do the dropping.

They won't drop people, imo, only block streams as needed. That may make people want to drop Netflix or pay up.

 

[strongy]

While I agree with the vagueness of "household" arguments, your argument of claiming all users are members of your family would be very easy to verify if true or not. You can't even use a browser that blocks cookies with their service.

Netflix breaks its data collection into four categories:

1. Information you provide to them such as contact and billing information.
2. Information they collect while you are actively using the service, including content selection and customer service interaction.
3. Information from partner companies like your internet provider.
4. Information from other sources.

Europe would love to slap GDPR fines on them for that, not to mention i bet Europe is going to say their now being anticompetitive or something

 

[EuroChilli]

While I agree with the vagueness of "household" arguments, your argument of claiming all users are members of your family would be very easy to verify if true or not. You can't even use a browser that blocks cookies with their service.

Netflix breaks its data collection into four categories:

1. Information you provide to them such as contact and billing information.
2. Information they collect while you are actively using the service, including content selection and customer service interaction.
3. Information from partner companies like your internet provider.
4. Information from other sources.

Maybe I'm missing something, but how exactly do those 4 points prove any device signed into Netflix is or is not owned by a member of the same 'household'?

 

[EuroChilli]

Sure. I'm waiting to pony up the additional family members on my account. One of them not living at home, but their legal address is here. But it won't matter a nonce based on the way netflix will restructure their model.

I'm not waiting to pay more. Businesses must just love you, so quick to cough up. The world needs more people like that, ones who are prepared to just keep paying, and paying, and paying....I'm not prepared to pay more. It's barely worth it as it is. But 6 bucks per stream? I think I can shoulder that, but that's it. Anymore, I'm out.

I guess it's up to you to partition the account they way you want.

It better be up to me, the paying user, and that it doesn't cost more in total than what I'm already paying. It's why I left Spotify. I was not able to configure my account as desired, that is, without any podcasts. I was just there for the music.

The old policy, was I believe account share allowed. Now account sharing not allowed.

Yea, well, I for one don't like the change. The previous policy is what prompted me to sign up. This new one is about to chase me and countless others away. These are underhanded bait and switch tactics in their purest form.

bait-and-switch
/bāt and,(ə)n(d) swiCH/

noun

1. the action (generally illegal) of advertising goods which are an apparent bargain (shared Netflix accounts), with the intention of substituting inferior or more expensive goods or services (limited user accounts that cost more).
   "a bait-and-switch scheme"

 

[I7guy]

Maybe I'm missing something, but how exactly do those 4 points prove any device signed into Netflix is or is not owned by a member of the same 'household'?

From what I understand, which may not be what actually happens, it doesn't matter, as each person will have to have their own subscription although it seems as if one can create two home accounts.

 

[I7guy]

I'm not waiting to pay more. Businesses must just love you, so quick to cough up. The world needs more people like that, ones who are prepared to just keep paying, and paying, and paying....I'm not prepared to pay more. It's barely worth it as it is.

Do what you want, I've already mentioned that. Drop Netflix. I don't care. Pay more. I don't care. I'm in this thread to understand the new system and it's implications.

It better be up to me, the paying user, and that it doesn't cost more in total than what I'm already paying.

It appears, unless I have this wrong, there are the concurrent number of streams and sub accounts. It sounds like a price hike to me.

Yea, well, I for one don't like the change. That's underhanded bait and switch tactics in purest form.

Well not really. The TOS changed - if you call that bait and switch we're working from two different dictionaries. I guarantee it's in the TOS that they can change TOS. It's up to you to accept it.

 

[EuroChilli]

Do what you want, I've already mentioned that. Drop Netflix. I don't care. Pay more. I don't care. I'm in this thread to understand the new system and it's implications.

You and me both.

It appears, unless I have this wrong, there are the concurrent number of streams and sub accounts. It sounds like a price hike to me.

Well if there's a price hike of so much as €1, I'm out. Netflix is not an essential service. On the other hand, we have just paid our energy bills this year despite the 400% increase, because we kind of need the stuff.

Well not really. The TOS changed - if you call that bait and switch we're working from two different dictionaries. I guarantee it's in the TOS that they can change TOS. It's up to you to accept it.

Ok fine. But companies need to be really careful when changing things like this. If the new TOS were so clear this thread wouldn't exist, or have gone on this long.

Now if you don't mind, I'm going to watch some hacked Netflix, that no one has paid for, on a VPN....☠️