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It’s definitely plausible but I don’t think it will happen. If I recall correctly, analysts like Kuo are calling for miniLED to be phased in from late 2020 through 2021. What makes sense is that 16” gets a refresh in late 2020 and 13”/Air gets another refresh in 2021.

Apple is going to continue its slow-drip in the Mac line. There will be big updates ahead for sure. But, for example, I highly doubt we’ll see FaceID introduced at the same time as MiniLED. There is only so much tech Apple can bring to the table at once without increasing price to the point where it affects sales/lowers demand.

On top of this, we are on the brink of a global recession w/ high unemployment, and many companies are bracing for lower demand of products overall. The market isn’t very conducive to new products and there are many supply chain challenges and risks. Not to mention much of Apple’s team working remotely, and the setbacks that come with that (especially when it comes to prototyping hardware).

I think this 2020 13” update was quite solid. Better keyboard, faster RAM (faster than the 16” even), spec bumps all around, and slight improvements to both speakers and microphone. There is likely some thermal improvements too but we won’t know for sure until testing can be done.

Fair points,

I honestly think the mini LED is one of the few outliers pushing the release out to 2021, but i'm hoping I'm proved wrong. In fact reports claim that suppliers are already receiving Mini LED orders from Apple--so this coupled with the claim that mini LED iPad/iMac releases are already planned for this year make it seem like MBP could benefit from the push and get the 2020 treatment. Of course it's all speculation (though relatively credible).

While I would agree with the current global economic standpoint too, Apple's stratagem doesn't seem to take it into consideration all that much given the amount of releases we've seen this year already, so i'm not sure how far that would derail any future releases (covid-related supply shortages notwithstanding). I'unno, the 2020 update provides a more than capable machine I concede (on the higher end anyway), I just feel that it really doesn't generate enough of a refreshed user experience to warrant the purchase: namely, Face ID, webcam update, etc. A man can dream.
 
Only reason no AMD is they'll go ARM - no point in wasting engineering resources on AMD when it's only a temporary path until ARM machines arrive.

I might get a small MBA to tide me over, or keep my ancient MBP for a bit longer until the ARM machines arrive.

These are all basically "we fixed the keyboard now" models. Keyboard alone should make this release a no-brainer for Apple as keyboard replacement programs are expensive and at this point must be eating up a big chunk of the profits on these computers.
 
Does anybody have an idea what's up with the different kinds of cameras in the MacBook Pro's and Airs?

I gathered they're all 720p, for a while now, and people are upset about it.
But there seem to be different versions.
Is it different sensors, different lenses, or is it just different processing of what's captured?
Apparently the latest one in the 2020 MBA is worse than the 2019 one.
The one in the 16" looks better. Or lets say different at least.

Does anybody know what's up?
Kinda hoping of course that - while still being 720p - the one in this new 13" Pro gives better quality..

It's always been the same camera & I'd wager the 2020 13" MBP is no different. It's rubbish. Wait for the incoming reviews to see what they say about it...
 
Sorry for the late reply. 1600$ should me max, 13 inch
I would stretch to $1799 and get the base 4 TB3 ports model with 2.0GHz Core i5/16GB DRAM/512GB SSD and call it a day. Wait for a small discount in the coming weeks if the stretch is too much to accommodate now (Amazon/B&H/Adorama). I just think you'll get way more life out of that model for the extra $200 versus the lower end models that have only 2 Thunderbolt 3 ports.

If $1600 is the absolute max, then the $1499 model with 1.4GHz Core i5/8GB/512GB SSD and bump up to the 16GB BTO option for an extra $100. Just my 2¢.
[automerge]1588859535[/automerge]
Fair points,

I honestly think the mini LED is one of the few outliers pushing the release out to 2021, but i'm hoping I'm proved wrong. In fact reports claim that suppliers are already receiving Mini LED orders from Apple--so this coupled with the claim that mini LED iPad/iMac releases are already planned for this year make it seem like MBP could benefit from the push and get the 2020 treatment. Of course it's all speculation (though relatively credible).

While I would agree with the current global economic standpoint too, Apple's stratagem doesn't seem to take it into consideration all that much given the amount of releases we've seen this year already, so i'm not sure how far that would derail any future releases (covid-related supply shortages notwithstanding). I'unno, the 2020 update provides a more than capable machine I concede (on the higher end anyway), I just feel that it really doesn't generate enough of a refreshed user experience to warrant the purchase: namely, Face ID, webcam update, etc. A man can dream.
I think any of those items that you are asking for won't come until Apple introduces and Arm-based MacBook Pro. So, if you're excited by that prospect, then get ready. If you want that stuff on an Intel-based model, I wouldn't get my hopes up.
 
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Apple has indeed moved on to the iPhone and iPad for innovation, because that’s where the money is and where Apple wants it to go. However, I do believe that Apple has at least begun to realize that the Mac division still has a lot of life left in it, othewise way bother moving to Arm-based CPUs? I think Apple has purposely held back on adding things to the Intel-based Macs in order to keep those goodies for Arm-based to get the userbase excited and on the bandwagon. Not to mention, they now are going to have to think extra different to convince those x86 diehards to buy a Mac, if that’s even possible. I guess we will see soon enough if I am right.

They are moving to get out of the general purpose computer market. They are dumping folks that create and building an ecosystem for those that only consume. People that want performance aren't buying Apple. By dumping the power users, they can also insulate themselves from direct comparisons - apple has steadily come off on the short end of the stick on that for almost a decade now.

ARM based Macs are going to be stuck with iOS software for at least the 2 years or so. That is how software development works. The guinea pigs are going to be running version 1 hardware with version 1 software - good luck with that.

OTOH, you will be able to run Candy Crush on your ARM based Mac, so I guess it isn't a total loss.....

Most software houses will drop Mac support. It won't be worth their time to port, then test, then support it.
 
I would stretch to $1799 and get the base 4 TB3 ports model with 2.0GHz Core i5/16GB DRAM/512GB SSD and call it a day. Wait for a small discount in the coming weeks if the stretch is too much to accommodate now (Amazon/B&H/Adorama). I just think you'll get way more life out of that model for the extra $200 versus the lower end models that have only 2 Thunderbolt 3 ports.

If $1600 is the absolute max, then the $1499 model with 1.4GHz Core i5/8GB/512GB SSD and bump up to the 16GB BTO option for an extra $100. Just my 2¢.
[automerge]1588859535[/automerge]

I think any of those items that you are asking for won't come until Apple introduces and Arm-based MacBook Pro. So, if you're excited by that prospect, then get ready. If you want that stuff on an Intel-based model, I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Ah, I so hope that's not the case. Of course ARM-based processors would cut costs, allowing for Apple to retain their price point while providing the upgrades users like myself are griping over. Boy, but then you're dealing with the on-boarding woes of a new product and that certainly gives pause.
 
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There is no “mid” level option. There are two models: the less expensive ($1,300), less powerful two Thunderbolt 3 model, and the $1,800 four Thunderbolt 3 model. Only the four TB3 got a CPU upgrade today.

The model you’re calling mid-level is just a standard config of a 512GB SSD model.

Semantics. No one here mistook me for suggesting there were three seperate or dedicated models. Mid-level option could mid "mid tier configuration" all the same.
 
What planet are you on? Spec for spec, with similar construction, the Windows laptops are all about the same prices. What can be found are even more expensive 13” laptops with Nvidia GPUs for much more. In my opinion, Apple is missing something to compete with the Razer Blade Stealth. It’s a beast. Also more expensive with its Nvidia GPU.

What planet are you on?
A1E6A292-D9E4-4BC1-AC20-AA3E3682FBAC.jpeg



1080.00 with higher specs and discreet graphics. Like mac’s? So do I, but this is over twice as much. Lets not be dishonest.


Intel® Core™ i7-10510U (1.8 GHz, up to 4.9 GHz, 8 MB cache, 4 cores) NVIDIA® GeForce® MX250 (2 GB) 16 GB DDR4 (onboard)


13.3" diagonal FHD IPS BrightView WLED-backlit (1920 x 1080)

512 GB Intel® SSD 32 GB Intel® Optane™ memory

care to point out what mac compares to? Waiting.

E45A8375-4F81-46C6-88B2-1145C874ED77.png

Apple. 2000 for similar specs and NO discreet graphics. Again, I have a mac and will stay with them, I won't lie to Myself to better though.
46CFEC1B-5E91-4A45-8F9A-AAE7E9B1A044.png
 
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Ah, I so hope that's not the case. Of course ARM-based processors would cut costs, allowing for Apple to retain their price point while providing the upgrades users like myself are griping over. Boy, but then you're dealing with the on-boarding woes of a new product and that certainly gives pause.
Well, its either they move to Arm or they hope Intel gets their act together by the time Tiger Lake is released. Despite evidence of AMD-based CPU strings in macOS betas, I think Apple evaluated them and said, “While performance is there, AMD cannot guarantee a reliable enough stream of CPUs to meet contractual obligations, so no”. I think this will all be a phased approach with low-end models being moved over to Arm-based CPUs and new form factors, while still selling Intel-based “Pro” models on a sliding timeframe until they tackle the iMac Pro and Mac Pro level performance models in ~2-3 years.
 
the cost of apples SSds really kills my desire to ever own a laptop. sure I could buy a 4tb external one for less than half apples cost but I really don't wanna have things hanging out of my laptop....
 
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What planet are you on?View attachment 912998


1080.00 with higher specs and discreet graphics. Like mac’s? So do I, but this is over twice as much. Lets not be dishonest.


Intel® Core™ i7-10510U (1.8 GHz, up to 4.9 GHz, 8 MB cache, 4 cores) NVIDIA® GeForce® MX250 (2 GB) 16 GB DDR4 (onboard)


13.3" diagonal FHD IPS BrightView WLED-backlit (1920 x 1080)

512 GB Intel® SSD 32 GB Intel® Optane™ memory

care to point out what mac compares to? Waiting.

View attachment 913003
Apple. 2000 for similar specs and NO discreet graphics. Again, I have a mac and will stay with them, I won't lie to Myself to better though.View attachment 913004
You still haven’t compared spec for spec. Display tech and resolution? Different CPUs. The GPU you mentioned is widely known to be a power hog and not provide any real world power over Intel integrates graphics. It doesn’t allow gameplay, and video encoding is not any faster. Build quality? Ease of warranty repair?
 
You still haven’t compared spec for spec. Display tech and resolution? Different CPUs. The GPU you mentioned is widely known to be a power hog and not provide any real world power over Intel integrates graphics. It doesn’t allow gameplay, and video encoding is not any faster. Build quality? Ease of warranty repair?
Bla, bla, bla. You said they cost the same spec for spec.

None of the envy’s here have required warranty and newest is 2017. My Mac has. Just saying, neither are built like they used to be. I started working on computers in the 80’s.

Why would think video Encoding is no faster? I do a lot of video incoding, I borrow a windows discrete gpu for that. It’s very comparable spec for spec with far better gpu. Stop moving the goalposts.
Any perceived difference you Think is there is no way Worth over twice as much. I have a mac and there are 3 hp envy’s here. The newest is a 2017 15” aluminum that cost 900 with 1 tb ssd, 4k display and at the time it took over 3000.00 to touch it in a mac.

I prefer osx, that’s why I stay with it, but people that make excuses for Apple’s prices just look silly. Just be happy with what you buy.
Look at sager, very upgradeable laptops with high specs, much cheaper.

adios, that’s it.
 
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What planet are you on?View attachment 912998


1080.00 with higher specs and discreet graphics. Like mac’s? So do I, but this is over twice as much. Lets not be dishonest.


Intel® Core™ i7-10510U (1.8 GHz, up to 4.9 GHz, 8 MB cache, 4 cores) NVIDIA® GeForce® MX250 (2 GB) 16 GB DDR4 (onboard)


13.3" diagonal FHD IPS BrightView WLED-backlit (1920 x 1080)

512 GB Intel® SSD 32 GB Intel® Optane™ memory

care to point out what mac compares to? Waiting.

View attachment 913003
Apple. 2000 for similar specs and NO discreet graphics. Again, I have a mac and will stay with them, I won't lie to Myself to better though.View attachment 913004

The HP Envy isn't even on the same level as HPs Spectre lineup, let alone the new MacBook Pro.

What you're doing is looking at paper specs and assuming that they're the same, but even then you're doing a poor job.

For starters, the 10th-gen Core i7 in the 2020 MBP 13 is a 28W 1068G7 that has a base clock of 2.3 Ghz, not the 15W 1065G7 with a base clock of 1.3 Ghz. It's a noticeably faster processor that falls between the desktop-class 35-45W "H" processors and the 1065G7 "U" processors. Even the i5 1038G7 processor on the new 2020 MBP 13 is faster than the i7 1065G7 because the new i5 is also a 28W processor but with a 2.0 Ghz base clock.

Second the MBP 13 Retina display, apart from having a much higher pixel density (~226 DPI) than the HP Envy you're linking, is not even in the same league as far as color accuracy is concerned. The 2020 MBP 13 covers 100% of the DCI-P3 color gamut, and something like 163% of the RGB color gamut. The FHD display on the Envy probably covers 99% of the RGB color gamut, at best.

The Envy is a fine laptop if it meets your needs, but it isn't in the same class as the 2020 MBP 13.
 
Bla, bla, bla. You said they cost the same spec for spec.

None of the envy’s here have required warranty and newest is 2017. My Mac has. Just saying, neither are built like they used to be. I started working on computers in the 80’s.

Why would think video Encoding is no faster? I do a lot of video incoding, I borrow a windows discrete gpu for that. It’s very comparable spec for spec with far better gpu. Stop moving the goalposts.
Any perceived difference you Think is there is no way Worth over twice as much. I have a mac and there are 3 hp envy’s here. The newest is a 2017 15” aluminum that cost 900 with 1 tb ssd, 4k display and at the time it took over 3000.00 to touch it in a mac.

I prefer osx, that’s why I stay with it, but people that make excuses for Apple’s prices just look silly. Just be happy with what you buy.
Look at sager, very upgradeable laptops with high specs, much cheaper.

adios, that’s it.
I am willing to wager that the value proposition for owning a Mac remains the same today as it did many years ago, when I chose to go all-in on the Apple ecosystem. While you pay more upfront, my experience is that it more than pays for itself in the form of fewer problems and great productivity overall.

For one, there's macOS, and it seems that people continue to expect that the underlying software ought to ship for free. You are getting a ton of functionality right out of the box, such as screenshot (why does windows continue to make this a separate app?), iMovie, QuickTime, FaceTime, preview, the iWork's apps, plus Apple's own stock apps (calendar, notes, safari, maps, mail, photos). There's also the Mac-only apps such as Final Cut Pro.

Then if you have an iPhone, there's additional synergy between the two, such as airdrop, continuity and iCloud.

Lastly, how many windows laptops do you know even ship with more than 1 or 2 USB-C ports?

Sure, these are more intangible benefits and it's hard to assign a numerical value or score to them the same way I can with hardware specs such as ram or processor speeds, but that doesn't mean they don't matter to the end user. That's the problem with all these comparisons. There is too much focus on specs and not enough on the user experience.
 
Well, its either they move to Arm or they hope Intel gets their act together by the time Tiger Lake is released. Despite evidence of AMD-based CPU strings in macOS betas, I think Apple evaluated them and said, “While performance is there, AMD cannot guarantee a reliable enough stream of CPUs to meet contractual obligations, so no”. I think this will all be a phased approach with low-end models being moved over to Arm-based CPUs and new form factors, while still selling Intel-based “Pro” models on a sliding timeframe until they tackle the iMac Pro and Mac Pro level performance models in ~2-3 years.

Right, it's actually a smart move on Apple. Release this update which is fine for most, while simultaneously paving the way for the return of a 12-inch ARM-processing Macbook, replacing the current entry-level 13-inch MBP. At least, I could foresee something like this. Of course if that rings true, a 14-inch MBP still using Intel processors could definitely see a Q4 2020 release, but i'm a dreamer, ha.
 
Apple is going to continue its slow-drip in the Mac line. There will be big updates ahead for sure. But, for example, I highly doubt we’ll see FaceID introduced at the same time as MiniLED. There is only so much tech Apple can bring to the table at once without increasing price to the point where it affects sales/lowers demand.
Another possibility is that Apple may be saving the major refresh for the rumoured ARM laptops, in a bid to sweeten the pot for users who are on the fence but don't want to be stuck with an intel MacBook still sporting the same form factor. The lower costs involved in manufacturing the ARM chips could also be what offsets the higher costs involved in bringing in newer, more expensive tech such as Face-ID or micro-LED, allowing the final product to still cost the same, if not less than an equivalent Intel MacBook.
 
The MacBook Pro 16 and Mac Pro (nice wheel kit Apple) are the only really new products on the computer side. The biggest feature on notebook new releases (for the most part) is putting in a keyboard that should have been there all along. They correct a FU and call it New!. Everything else the last few years has been a phone in upgrade.

Exciting pipeline my a**. Heads down creating my a**.

And as usual, most folks here, after seeing the "new" releases, are looking forward to the *next* update. Tim has to love this.

Tim Cook can be regarded as smoke and mirrors. That villain is making the Apple brand stink more than ever before from failure of butterfly mechanism and AirPower.
 
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I couldn't care less for faster SSD speeds. I need hard drive space in my mbp, not an extra couple of seconds. The speed of SSD's from ten years ago is good enough.
Well, good enough for you. Personally I wouldn't want to have slower SSDs
 
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People have been saying for years that "this year is just a stop gap" and "next year they'll release super duper new macs!"

It won't happen because this is how they operate with macs, you get crap unless you pay over the top prices for average specs and idiots lap it up.

They do it with iPhones using 750p LCD screens and they do it with macs.
 
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