New 13-Inch MacBook Pro Announced With Magic Keyboard, 10th-Gen Processors, Up to 32GB RAM and 4TB SSD, and More

[Santabean2000]

Would love some advice on which MP to purchase. Debating between both newest models of the MBA and MBP. Currently have a MBP from 2012 so these two new models are intriguing to say the least. I'm a teacher that uses quite a few apps at once. I'm pretty techy and understand most things, but processor talk makes my brain hurt LOL. Would need more storage and RAM thats for sure. But not sure if one version is better than the other, and would love some suggestions from you all, that from your comments seem to know than I do. Thanks in advance!

Having worked in Education for a long time, I can say I’m familiar with your situation.

People outside of schools have no idea of breadth of software that teachers run through. Also no idea of how time poor teachers are.

If I were you, I’d be looking at the MBP 10th gen with 32GB RAM. No time to waste micro managing s***.

Go strong and call it a day.

 

[Mike Boreham]

This is overblown a bit. The processor in the Air isn't meant to run at high speeds for sustained periods of time. That's why it has the cooling system it does. It doesn't need a heat pipe, etc. Some modders have tried hacks, but at best they extract another 10-15% performance.

Just to add that that neat summary of a very big argument, I think the point of the fan in the MBA is at least partly (if not mainly) to keep the outside of the machine cool at the high CPU temps which are normal nowadays.

 

[Abazigal]

Would love some advice on which MP to purchase. Debating between both newest models of the MBA and MBP. Currently have a MBP from 2012 so these two new models are intriguing to say the least. I'm a teacher that uses quite a few apps at once. I'm pretty techy and understand most things, but processor talk makes my brain hurt LOL. Would need more storage and RAM thats for sure. But not sure if one version is better than the other, and would love some suggestions from you all, that from your comments seem to know than I do. Thanks in advance!

I think the MBA would do fine for you (16gb ram / quad-core i5 / 256gb storage). I don’t think a teacher will really need the extra processing power, unless you happen to do a fair amount of photography or video-editing on the side (perhaps you have your own YouTube channel for the students?), but even then, a MBA running iMovie would more than suffice for the type of material one would churn out for their students.

512gb of storage feels overkill as well (I would just get an extra Samsung T5 drive and throw all my files on it).

 

[Malus120]

I don’t think a teacher will really need the extra processing power.... 512gb of storage feels overkill as well (I would just get an extra Samsung T5 drive and throw all my files on it).

Nah. The storage upgrade for a teacher is absolutely worth the Apple tax as this post so succinctly points out.

People outside of schools have no idea of breadth of software that teachers run through. Also no idea of how time poor teachers are. No time to waste micro managing s***.

Teachers being time poor is a very real thing. My partner works as a teacher and I made the (huge) mistake of advising her to "save" on the 256gb model (Macbook) and just utilize external storage. She's currently rocking a 1TB Samsung T5 (as well as various external HDD's for backup) and honestly she hates (and is forced to waste a ton of time) having to micromanaging her storage, and having to remember to bring the external drive with her, despite having way more total space than she needs. The number one reason she tells me she wants to upgrade isn't the CPU or the Ram, its "more storage."

I'd also agree that many teachers end up using their computers for a lot more than just glorified word processing so any extra ram/CPU power you can give them will absolutely be appreciated. That said beyond a certain point I'd say the priority should probably be Storage>RAM>CPU for MOST but not all teachers (asking them what they actually need never hurts )

 

[BeatCrazy]

There is nothing that I have seen to suggest that Apple is using a special variant of the 1068G7. As you say, the specs are an identical match. 28 Watt TPD CPU with base 2.3 and boost 4.1.

However, it is clear that they must be using an as yet unreleased i5 variant for the 2.0Ghz model. 1038G7 or 1038NG7 makes sense here. It can't just be a i5-1035G7 with TDP increased to 25W, because that CPU would still be limited to max 3.7Ghz turbo:

I think the base model $1799 w/10-gen CPU is a (unannounced) Core i5-1066NG7. It can't have a 3 as the third digit, because it's a 28w (or 25w?) TDP, so it will use a 6 like today's 1068G7. But the 4th digit can't be a "5" (that is for <2.0 GHz base clocks) and it can't be a "7", because that's gonna be the 2.3GHz higher base BTO option.

 

[Spectrum]

I think the base model $1799 w/10-gen CPU is a (unannounced) Core i5-1066NG7. It can't have a 3 as the third digit, because it's a 28w (or 25w?) TDP, so it will use a 6 like today's 1068G7. But the 4th digit can't be a "5" (that is for <2.0 GHz base clocks) and it can't be a "7", because that's gonna be the 2.3GHz higher base BTO option.

I think it is more likely to be 1038.

I think it is the 4th digit that refers to the wattage. Hence "0" for the 9-10 watt parts, and 5 for the 15 Watt parts, and 8 for the 28 Watt part.

The 3rd digit seems to indicate the type: 0 for i3, 3 for i5, and 6 for i7.

Why on earth Intel came up with such a convoluted system is anyone's guess.

 

[BeatCrazy]

I think it is more likely to be 1038.

I think it is the 4th digit that refers to the wattage. Hence "0" for the 9-10 watt parts, and 5 for the 15 Watt parts, and 8 for the 28 Watt part.

The 3rd digit seems to indicate the type: 0 for i3, 3 for i5, and 6 for i7.

Why on earth Intel came up with such a convoluted system is anyone's guess.

So. Damn. Confusing.

I thought Ice Lake was supposed to have integrated Wi-Fi 6, as well as integrated Thunderbolt 3? I guess we’ll have to wait on the TB3 situation until a tear down.

 

[playtech1]

PowerBook G4 12" (1.5Ghz) with NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200 (4X AGP) graphics with 64 MB of DDR SDRAM Jan 2005

PowerBook G4 1.5 12" (Al) Specs (12-Inch 1.5 GHz, M9690LL/A*, PowerBook6,8, A1104, 2030): EveryMac.com

Technical specifications for the PowerBook G4 1.5 12" (Al). Dates sold, processor type, memory info, hard drive details, price and more.

everymac.com

You don't even have to go as far back if you include the 13 inch models - they have GeForce graphics until 2010.

Looking at equivalent PCs it seems that a Geforce MX350 could fit in a 13 inch MBP chassis and power budget, but Apple still black lists Nvidia so you would need an AMD chip or Apple to port its iPad graphics cards to Mac.

Problem is that I can't see that AMD has a discrete Navi GPU that is small enough at the moment. At that low-level I think AMD is pushing their APUs (combined CPU and GPU). Although I bet AMD would produce something on Apple's request- AMD's semi-custom business seems super flexible.

 

[Birkan]

ok, so theoretical improvement is around 30%, but due to lower clock speed this improvement will be halved.
But since we are in a laptop, where thermals are constrained, i guess that the 10th gen should actually do a lot better.

i.e. At the same stable wattage/heat do you think 10th gen should be more able to reach and maintain the same GHz boost speeds as the 8th gen CPUs? (And thus have 30% increase?) Or will 8th Gen always get to a higher boost?

I guess the question can be partially answered by looking at what the stable (max wattage) CPU speed is on the 8th Gen MBPro. If this is under 4Ghz, it seems probable (to me) that the 10th Gen will equal their clock speed, unless for some reason 10th gen uses more power per GHz than 8th Gen?

I think if your workloads are bursty and short, then the difference might not be that high. However if they are sustained workloads such as compiling or video editing, thermally constrained performance of 10th Gen might be better compared to bursty workloads since 8th Gen loses its clock speed advantage. But it all depends how Apple implements Turbo properties of CPUs. For example a 15W Ice Lake CPU can go up to 50W on PL2 but as Anandtech says most vendors choose between 22-35W. Also, don't forget that 10th Gen is a newer micro architecture that features AVX-512. So if Apple/developers decide to optimise their software for it (don't forget that Mac Pro also has AVX-512 and used for Final Cut or Logic by many people), it can be much much faster (around 5 times on 3DPM v2.1 AVX2/AVX-512 which is on page 6 of the review). However, if Apple is indeed going for ARM for the upcoming Macs, they might not really prioritise implementing AVX-512 in their software. To be honest, I'm curiously waiting for Anandtech's review of MBP with 10th Gen CPUs to see the results.

 

[ascender]

A really minor point, but I wish that they’d have at least one usb-c port on each side of all their laptops. Having that flexibility is a really minor thing, but given they don’t do MagSafe any more, it allows you to minimise the chances of cables getting pulled out depending on what side your power is plugged-in to.

 

[Abazigal]

A really minor point, but I wish that they’d have at least one usb-c port on each side of all their laptops. Having that flexibility is a really minor thing, but given they don’t do MagSafe any more, it allows you to minimise the chances of cables getting pulled out depending on what side your power is plugged-in to.

I think I read somewhere that it costs more for Apple to have USB-C ports on the right side of their laptop, due to the placement of the motherboard. That's why the cheaper models have 2 ports on the left side. There's probably an engineering-related explanation behind this somewhere.

 

[illutionz]

I think the base model $1799 w/10-gen CPU is a (unannounced) Core i5-1066NG7. It can't have a 3 as the third digit, because it's a 28w (or 25w?) TDP, so it will use a 6 like today's 1068G7. But the 4th digit can't be a "5" (that is for <2.0 GHz base clocks) and it can't be a "7", because that's gonna be the 2.3GHz higher base BTO option.

I think it is more likely to be 1038.

I think it is the 4th digit that refers to the wattage. Hence "0" for the 9-10 watt parts, and 5 for the 15 Watt parts, and 8 for the 28 Watt part.

The 3rd digit seems to indicate the type: 0 for i3, 3 for i5, and 6 for i7.

Why on earth Intel came up with such a convoluted system is anyone's guess.

As per my previous response here, the base $1799 model is using i5-1038NG7. This is a brand new 28W part currently exclusive to Apple and not announced during the initial ICL-U SKU launch.

The BTO i7 model is i7-1068NG7 which is the same exact spec as the previously announced i7-1068G7 but with Apple's modification (most likely Apple's smaller packaging) but also 28W part.

Despite being announced alongside other ICL-U parts, the 1068G7 is currently not being used in any other laptop. 2020 13" Macbook Pro will be the first to use the part (or in this case... Apple's variant of it)

And yes, the Ice Lake naming scheme is as follows (Let's take i5-1038NG7 being used in the base $1799 13" MBP):
- 10 = 10th generation
- 3 = Unclear but i believe Spectrum's theory is correct that 3 refers to i5 parts. I've only seen i3 parts using 0 (i3-1000NG4 in base MBA), i5 parts using 3 (i5-1038NG7), and i7 parts using 6 (i7-1068NG7)
- 8 = Wattage. 0 = 9/10W "Y" series, 5 = 15/25W "U" series, 8 = 28W "U" series.
- G7 = Graphics level. G1 = 32 Execution Units, G4 = 48 Execution Units, G7 = 64 Execution Units.

 

[playtech1]

I think if your workloads are bursty and short, then the difference might not be that high. However if they are sustained workloads such as compiling or video editing, thermally constrained performance of 10th Gen might be better compared to bursty workloads since 8th Gen loses its clock speed advantage. But it all depends how Apple implements Turbo properties of CPUs. For example a 15W Ice Lake CPU can go up to 50W on PL2 but as Anandtech says most vendors choose between 22-35W. Also, don't forget that 10th Gen is a newer micro architecture that features AVX-512. So if Apple/developers decide to optimise their software for it (don't forget that Mac Pro also has AVX-512 and used for Final Cut or Logic by many people), it can be much much faster (around 5 times on 3DPM v2.1 AVX2/AVX-512 which is on page 6 of the review). However, if Apple is indeed going for ARM for the upcoming Macs, they might not really prioritise implementing AVX-512 in their software. To be honest, I'm curiously waiting for Anandtech's review of MBP with 10th Gen CPUs to see the results.

I think the most telling thing about a lack of substantial CPU performance improvements is that Apple's own marketing does not compare quad-core 8th gen with quad-core 10th gen and the cherry-picked multi-threaded benchmarks against dual-core CPUs do not show much more than 2x improvement.

 

[russell_314]

I really had to try calling your bluff on the older machines ... and you're correct.
PowerBook G4 12" (867mhz) with NVIDIA GeForce4 420 Go (4X AGP) graphics with 32 MB of DDR SDRAM Jan.2003

PowerBook G4 867 12" (Al) Specs (12-Inch, M8760LL/A, PowerBook6,1, A1010, 1931): EveryMac.com

Technical specifications for the PowerBook G4 867 12" (Al). Dates sold, processor type, memory info, hard drive details, price and more.

everymac.com

PowerBook G4 12" (1.5Ghz) with NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200 (4X AGP) graphics with 64 MB of DDR SDRAM Jan 2005

PowerBook G4 1.5 12" (Al) Specs (12-Inch 1.5 GHz, M9690LL/A*, PowerBook6,8, A1104, 2030): EveryMac.com

Technical specifications for the PowerBook G4 1.5 12" (Al). Dates sold, processor type, memory info, hard drive details, price and more.

everymac.com

I guess I was wrong about calling what I thought was dedicated graphics dedicated graphics but it was significantly better than Intel integrated graphics and comparable to dedicated graphics. That was my whole point. I don’t care what Apple calls it or what is technically called make the computer have the graphics capability of a mid range GPU. At least that’s my wish.

The reality is because this is the same MacBook Pro as the last one with a newer keyboard and spec bumped CPU it probably would have been difficult for them to add a component like a graphics card or even some sort of graphics chip. My only hope is when they come out with a new 13 inch or 14 inch MacBook Pro it has this feature. Of course that will depend on the demand and the target audience. Just because I want it doesn’t mean the majority of people that buy that computer want it

 

[FastLaneJB]

I think it’s great - I use a micro sd plus adaptor combo for my rMBP (late 2013) to fit excess media on. It’s right there when I need it - just pop it in. Keeps the 256gb ssd drive nice and clean, free from over clutter etc. It’s a fantastic option and cheap way to expand storage when you don’t need the storage actively. I can also swap it into my iMac or business PC with ease. I find it extremely handy personally.

with respect to Android, I can’t comment on how people generally use it. But I can anecdotally share - I had a Galaxy s7, s9 and briefly s10. I found it useful for storing media files or transferring videos. The s7 had 32gb of storage and I had a cheap 32gb card that filled up with high def videos
My sister is an s10 user, she runs a business with a large team and they share a lot of videos. Her phone has a 128gb microsd on top of her 128gb storage. Way, way more storage than I’d ever use on my iPhone but for her it’s a nice amount. She’s not the type to buy a phone every 1-2 years like I am. She keeps them for a long time, and when she runs out of additional space she will just get a bigger card.

I think a lot of causal users myself included simply use them as cheap storage options. Obviously not a replacement for a native ssd but for offloading files that you want easy access to they are awesome.

What's the difference though in your use case from using a USB thumbdrive or a USB SSD, etc? Because in my mind there's none. I personally like that Apple just fits these with fast Thunderbolt 3 / USB C ports. That way you've a lot of options. For instance your SD Card reader is going to be an old slow one in terms of performance. On the new ones you can just buy a newer faster reader or USB thumbdrive to get more performance. It's simple and clean.

Yes you need dongles and adapters but I don't see that as the end of the world, ultimately with what your saying you also have an adapter for your rMBP so you've not escaped that either.

 

[aknabi]

Huge bezels. Again.

DELL XPS 13
View attachment 911994

I feel like a lot of folks thumb down this post because they don't want to the fact that most of the shortcomings of the 13 MBP not only solvable, but have been solved... if Apple wanted they could make a 13" MBP in almost a 12 MB form factor...

It busts the bubble and seems that many "fanboys" just don't want that bubble popped.

 

[FastLaneJB]

I feel like a lot of folks thumb down this post because they don't want to the fact that most of the shortcomings of the 13 MBP not only solvable, but have been solved... if Apple wanted they could make a 13" MBP in almost a 12 MB form factor...

It busts the bubble and seems that many "fanboys" just don't want that bubble popped.

I agree that Dell has done a wonderful job on the XPS 13. It's not always as black and white though, the XPS 13 is using a 15W CPU and the Macbook Pro 13 is going up to a 28 Watt. Might be they need more of that space for cooling / battery than Dell is using. Hence why the 14inch makes more sense as they might enlarge it slightly plus shrink bezels to pull that off.

Ultimately though Apple doesn't change their case designs that often, it's just how it is. I've ordered a new 13 inch and a I had a Dell XPS 13 2in1 of the current gen I returned. Stunning machine but I'm not going to get hung up either over slightly larger bezels. It's not going to impact the usability of the machine at all in my eyes.

 

[aknabi]

The piss and moan entitlement crowd have nothing better to do than whine and cry about everything Apple releases. Apple can do no right and, hopefully, once A-series based Macs show up, they’ll get the hint and go somewhere else.

Sorry some of us know the market (and in my case actual design, HW and SW engineering) and know that Apple as over the years has given up the hero laptop position.

We're not religious zealots... I like AAPL because they've done the best at design, materials, etc... but not blind to the market place.

The fanboy crowd have nothing better to do than to defend and promote about everything Apple releases. Apple can do no wrong and, hopefully, once A-series based Macs show up, they'll have be legit in their blind AAPL following
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I agree that Dell has done a wonderful job on the XPS 13. It's not always as black and white though, the XPS 13 is using a 15W CPU and the Macbook Pro 13 is going up to a 28 Watt. Might be they need more of that space for cooling / battery than Dell is using. Hence why the 14inch makes more sense as they might enlarge it slightly plus shrink bezels to pull that off.

Ultimately though Apple doesn't change their case designs that often, it's just how it is. I've ordered a new 13 inch and a I had a Dell XPS 13 2in1 of the current gen I returned. Stunning machine but I'm not going to get hung up either over slightly larger bezels. It's not going to impact the usability of the machine at all in my eyes.

Good point... for day-to-day dev'ing I use either my loaded 16MBP or MP... however for couch/bed/outside development I really appreciate the form factor of the 12MB (I have an older 13 and there's a big diff). I've been considering the 13MBA... which as you said is closer to the XPS...

so I guess my statement should have read they could have made the new MBA in almost the same FF as the 12MB (which I'd be all over)... as it stands when you look at adding up the 16GB/512GB upgrade to the MBA it's basically the same price as the new MBP... and I'd argue you'd be nuts to by an upgraded MBA over a MBP given there's negligible size/weight diffs

 

[DeepIn2U]

Apparently, a non-TouchBar option is not available anymore 😖 I had my hopes up that I would finally be able to get an updated MBP with physical function keys.
I was also hoping for 14 inch screen size. I feel 13 is too small and 15" form factor is not portable enough. 14" is the sweet spot!
And for heaven's sake Apple, make the headphone port the port that is closest to the user! Otherwise, the headphone cord will definitely get tangled in the usb-c cables situated in between the headphone jack and the user. And finally, the headphone jack belongs on the left side; the side that the entire headphone industry has standardized on. If a headphone is going to go down one side it's always the left side. But I guess we're all supposed to be totally assimilated with AirPods by now 😑

I'm sorry you feel that way about which side the headphone jack is ... but stating it's standardized by the 'entire headphone industry' lol. That cracked me up.

HP's EliteBooks have the headphone jack on several models, including many 2-in-1's on the right side as well. Lenovo ThinkPad T460/T470/T480 also on the right side, the T490 has it on the left with the majority of ports (chipset consolidation).

 

[Zdigital2015]

Would love some advice on which MP to purchase. Debating between both newest models of the MBA and MBP. Currently have a MBP from 2012 so these two new models are intriguing to say the least. I'm a teacher that uses quite a few apps at once. I'm pretty techy and understand most things, but processor talk makes my brain hurt LOL. Would need more storage and RAM thats for sure. But not sure if one version is better than the other, and would love some suggestions from you all, that from your comments seem to know than I do. Thanks in advance!

I would recommend the $1799 13” MacBook Pro if 512GB of storage will be enough for you. The Core i5 and 16GB or DRAM should certainly do pretty much any job you can throw at them. Upgrade to the Core i7 if you really want to leave nothing on the table CPU-wise. The CPU upgrade and the 1TB upgrade are equal to the 32GB DRAM upgrade and are a better deal for the same $400. I simply think the base 4 TB3 port MacBook Pro is a better deal performance wise and port wise than a tricked out MBA. Just my 2¢.
[automerge]1588778734[/automerge]

Sorry some of us know the market (and in my case actual design, HW and SW engineering) and know that Apple as over the years has given up the hero laptop position.

We're not religious zealots... I like AAPL because they've done the best at design, materials, etc... but not blind to the market place.

The fanboy crowd have nothing better to do than to defend and promote about everything Apple releases. Apple can do no wrong and, hopefully, once A-series based Macs show up, they'll have be legit in their blind AAPL following

Apple has indeed moved on to the iPhone and iPad for innovation, because that’s where the money is and where Apple wants it to go. However, I do believe that Apple has at least begun to realize that the Mac division still has a lot of life left in it, othewise way bother moving to Arm-based CPUs? I think Apple has purposely held back on adding things to the Intel-based Macs in order to keep those goodies for Arm-based to get the userbase excited and on the bandwagon. Not to mention, they now are going to have to think extra different to convince those x86 diehards to buy a Mac, if that’s even possible. I guess we will see soon enough if I am right.

 

[Birkan]

I think the most telling thing about a lack of substantial CPU performance improvements is that Apple's own marketing does not compare quad-core 8th gen with quad-core 10th gen and the cherry-picked multi-threaded benchmarks against dual-core CPUs do not show much more than 2x improvement.

You're right. What I'm expecting is more of a 10-15 percent increase or maybe a bit more in sustained performance in average which is not something you would advertise really. I hope the reviews come soon enough!

 

[Metrosey]

Wrong, Even 4800H is faster than 10875H by 9% on avg & 4900HS IS 2-3% better than 4800H. I mean come on 4900HS is beating 10875 even at 94W let alone 45W while being a 35W chip itself.

Not wrong at all, these are proper tests done by said tester. Also 94w is only if you enable it. Results were also backed up by another tester. People really need to stop looking at benchmarks or specification sheet. Yes it’s more efficient but that efficiency won’t matter if Intel still beats AMD in terms of battery life. This is possible to due to the great power management Intel put into the architecture itself.

 

[alpenn]

I agree that Dell has done a wonderful job on the XPS 13. It's not always as black and white though, the XPS 13 is using a 15W CPU and the Macbook Pro 13 is going up to a 28 Watt. Might be they need more of that space for cooling / battery than Dell is using. Hence why the 14inch makes more sense as they might enlarge it slightly plus shrink bezels to pull that off.

Ultimately though Apple doesn't change their case designs that often, it's just how it is. I've ordered a new 13 inch and a I had a Dell XPS 13 2in1 of the current gen I returned. Stunning machine but I'm not going to get hung up either over slightly larger bezels. It's not going to impact the usability of the machine at all in my eyes.

I actually like slightly larger bezels for extended use, as long as they're black. I think it helps my eyes separate the screen content from the background.

 

[MetalCores]

I suspect this is the last design or spec iteration we will see until ARM processors a year from now.

Thats what im waiting for

 

[Ulfric]

Not wrong at all, these are proper tests done by said tester. Also 94w is only if you enable it. Results were also backed up by another tester. People really need to stop looking at benchmarks or specification sheet. Yes it’s more efficient but that efficiency won’t matter if Intel still beats AMD in terms of battery life. This is possible to due to the great power management Intel put into the architecture itself.

What proper tests, So you are telling me corona, V-ray, Blender, Code compiling aren't proper tests? Besides apart from Photoshop & Imports in premiere (which depends on Quick Sync) 4900HS trashes 10875 in premier (warp stabilizer), After effects and also in 8K video playback.

Da Vinci is more GPU dependent & taht Aero model has better GPU ( 2070 super) thatn G14 (2060 MaxQ).
BTW another reviewer Hardware Unboxed validates Jarrord's finding & both of them are well known Laptop reviewers.

Regarding Battery life, G14 runs 10 hours with video playback. It's not just Linus Dave Lee also had the same experience with the battery life of G14.