New 15-Inch MacBook Pro With Kaby Lake and 32GB of Desktop-Class RAM Coming Later This Year

[Abazigal]

And is a perfect example of Apple alienating the ACTUAL pro users, with the removal of the physical ESC key.

Thanks for helping us prove our point, though you will violently oppose the above statement, no doubt.

I don't disagree with you in that regard. My stance is that Apple is likely making the 15" MacBook Pro more palatable to the mass consumer, which then necessitates some degree of sacrifice on the part of the Pro users.

And clearly, different people are going to react to this move differently. Some will love the lighter form factor, others will hate the keyboard and lack of 32 gb ram option.

Neither side is wrong. At the end of the day, Apple has shown their hand. The ball is now in your court.

 

[Aldaris]

Where has Apple promoted the MBP as a replacement for a Mac Pro?

An alternative perhaps. But a quad i7 is never going to replace a 12 core Xeon machine.

I think you are drawing your own false conclusions. I've. Or seen any ad from Apple saying anything remotely like "the MacBook Pro our new Mac Pro replacement". I've seen it advertise the fact it can run dual 5k monitors and edit video. But that's a different think all together.

My conclusion is based primarily one two things.

1.) Apple October Event announcing the new touch bar MacBook Pros with marketing and promotional materials (video and images) that this is the "Pro" solution munching through 4K video on dual 5K displays and dual Thunderbolt 3 raids tossing video at amazing speeds. All on a nice editing bay with the new MacBook Pro.

2.) Lack of any attention, effort, of upgrading/updating a three year old plus machine the Mac Pro. Which has over the three years been removed from much of Apples promotional materials on its website, for Final Cut Pro X, and Logic Pro. More and more Apple's marketing departments are selling that the iMac and more recently the MacBook Pro are the flagship-golden standard-Mac experience.

I don't think you really appreciate the frustration many people are having when confronted with the choice of buying three year old tech gear, or modern cutting edge workstation class systems (many wondering if Apple is exiting the workstation class market, like they have with displays, which also went 3+ years with out an update). And then for Apple to suggest even in marketing that this is the way to edit, create, on an new touch bar MacBook Pro paired with dual LG 5k displays that can't even run at native resolution through a "current" Mac Pro, really comes as a kick in the balls, or at the very least a middle finger to those who buy those systems.

The lack of any updates (which there have been contenders for both CPU and GPU) really make many wonder if this is the end of the line of the PowerMac G3/4/5 Mac Pro Tier.

 

[lowkey]

During the "Hello Again" Mac event, the MBP was shown at a desk w/ a $35,000+ RED camera while boisterously announcing, "This is your new workstation".

Exactly. It's an alternative. Nowhere does it say it's a replacement. You are drawing that conclusion.

On the website there is no mention of the MBP being a replacement for the Mac Pro.

I fail to see the difference between a video editing solution and the market a Mac Pro would aim at. Professional creatives, scientists, extreme hobbyists, and indie artists needing a workstation prefer lots of RAM, CPU cores and big GPUs, regardless of it's for 3D, Video, Simulations, DL, AI, VR, AR development, Music Videos, TV Shows, or feature length movies.

Portability. Power. Two massive differences.
Yes I could use an old cheesegrater Mac Pro for running Cubase and I'd get more tracks. But I often play live, so portability was just as big a factor as power. It is a different solution because the problem is different. "How to get the most power in the studio with the ability to take the machine in my backpack for use live on stage."
[doublepost=1484707310][/doublepost]Sure the Mac Pro has fallen behind. But don't try to make the MacBook Pro a Mac Pro. It isn't one.

If you need the power the Mac Pro is still miles ahead of the new MBP. Like I said a quad i7 will never compete with a 12 core Xeon even if it is 3 years old.

My conclusion is based primarily one two things.

1.) Apple October Event announcing the new touch bar MacBook Pros with marketing and promotional materials (video and images) that this is the "Pro" solution munching through 4K video on dual 5K displays and dual Thunderbolt 3 raids tossing video at amazing speeds. All on a nice editing bay with the new MacBook Pro.

2.) Lack of any attention, effort, of upgrading/updating a three year old plus machine the Mac Pro. Which has over the three years been removed from much of Apples promotional materials on its website, for Final Cut Pro X, and Logic Pro. More and more Apple's marketing departments are selling that the iMac and more recently the MacBook Pro are the flagship-golden standard-Mac experience.

I don't think you really appreciate the frustration many people are having when confronted with the choice of buying three year old tech gear, or modern cutting edge workstation class systems (many wondering if Apple is exiting the workstation class market, like they have with displays, which also went 3+ years with out an update). And then for Apple to suggest even in marketing that this is the way to edit, create, on an new touch bar MacBook Pro paired with dual LG 5k displays that can't even run at native resolution through a "current" Mac Pro, really comes as a kick in the balls, or at the very least a middle finger to those who buy those systems.

The lack of any updates (which there have been contenders for both CPU and GPU) really make many wonder if this is the end of the line of the PowerMac G3/4/5 Mac Pro Tier.

 

[Aldaris]

Were not trying to make the MacBook Pro a Mac Pro...

Someone else is trying to convince us it is.
[doublepost=1484708009][/doublepost]His name is Phil "can't innovate my ass" Schiller.

Take it up with him.

 

[tech4all]

I think his point is there's too many whiners.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Count Blah]

I don't disagree with you in that regard. My stance is that Apple is likely making the 15" MacBook Pro more palatable to the mass consumer, which then necessitates some degree of sacrifice on the part of the Pro users.

And clearly, different people are going to react to this move differently. Some will love the lighter form factor, others will hate the keyboard and lack of 32 gb ram option.

Neither side is wrong. At the end of the day, Apple has shown their hand. The ball is now in your court.

WOW!! That's the most level headed response I think I've ever seen you post.

That sad part is that it didn't have to be this way. Between the Macbook and Macbook Air, the 'light as a feather' vertical was already there. There was no need to butcher the MBP to satisfy that group. But you are correct - Apple chose to hack and slash the once mighty MBP, into what it is today. And it's up to us to choose not to buy it, if it doesn't meat our needs.

That's why I've mentioned in other threads, the beginning of my exit strategy. Sad that it's come to this.

 

[hiddenmarkov]

That's marketing.

The reality is a MBP used for visual/creative/dev work rarely gets more then 2-3 hours battery life.

Those I know/see (myself included) using a MBP for code/GFX/video, plugs into AC regardless of release year.

Don't take my word for it.

Walk into a coffee shop and count the Apple AC cords in use.
The folks not plugged into AC are almost always MBA users and usually in sales.
For every one person not using AC, there are 5-10 using AC, including 2016 MBP owners.

Some of the the apple faithful aren't going to get this. Or the must run 10 hours very light load. Since...they run a light load and that is their basis for a norm.

Not once have we asked for a ballsier system that runs 10 hours off house power. With my current 2015 15" off house power I can go from 100% to 20% in an hour to 1.5 hours doing very light FCP work. No brainer....using damn near every system resource I have in the MBP and using them hard. She will eat up more power. Off house power the battery will drain and drain fast.

Project creation, import 45 minutes to an hour of video, FCP's analysis and basic fixing done on the import and scan through using ye old J K L. I have not started really editing yet...import and watching to get time ranges I know I need to work some voodoo magic to just start the editing all that has been done.

Bigger and better spec'd systems... we who are asking for them know, and accept, we need house power. Not running 10 hours a ding. Only time I run like this is goofing off on the internet really. or I forgot my power adapter and I know I just need the 1 hour runtime to make it through catch up stuff at lunch. Which I know I can get most times.

Why I tire of the blame intel line. its not intel. Dell and others are already pushing these out. We just want that option.

I promise I would not complain about a 32 gb MBP having crap battery life. As well...I have to run off house power now most times anyway now with a 16 GB 2015...it will be SSDD here. SSDD for me....and many others.

 

[macTW]

As I said, you don't understand a thing about the lineup.
If you had read anything I said you would see that the whole point of the different models is performance, while screen size is secondary and not really important. But you got so triggered by the screen sizes, you didn't listen to the rest. They are not identical laptops. The 13" MacBook could be 14", and the 15" MacBook Pro could be 16" - It doesn't matter because it is irrelevant to my point, which was a reshuffle and improvements to the existing lineup.

I run a very successful business and have done for over 4 years, so your advice is a bit too late. Maybe part of that success is the fact I listen to consumers and consider the market. I am not so fixated on my view that I ignore everything else others have to say without attempting to understand it.

Anyway, it's clear that you will never make the effort to understand the lineup and I'm getting bored. Let's agree to disagree (although we are not in complete disagreement).

You are too blind to your own arguement. Screen sizes so similar is beyond stupid. It's clear as day except for someone as ignorant to costs as you.

 

[BadBoysDriveAudi]

I have yet to utilize the full 16gb of RAM... Sure 32gb will be cool, more of a bragging right.

Ever try running a VM in Parallels while simultaneously developing on the native OS?

 

[jerryk]

Sounds Great to me! I'd buy one, perhaps two.
Heck, my 2011 15" MBP rarely got more then 90mins.

I am OK with 5 hours also. Because of the work I do I want max cycles all the time so I am plugged in 99% of time

 

[Investor27]

I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that people are still willing to pay $4,000 or more for a laptop nowadays. And if the 32 GB of RAM is available, you can bet the farm that Apple will charge you at minimum another $500 for the upgrade.

And for all the people who complained about the pricing, lack of ports and RAM and the Skylake chip in the current Macbook Pros, you all were advised by pretty much all of the professional magazine and website reviewers to skip this one but you didn't listen, and that's all right. Just don't complain about being duped when you would have been using your $4,000+ system for a year by the time the update is out. The only way to force Apple's hands and alter their current thinking of making the Pros thinner and give us more battery life, power and legacy ports is to hit them where it hurts the most, which is their bottom line, by abstaining from purchasing this Pro version. Hopefully, will all the news coming now about the fall of 2017 update with the latest battery tech, cpu and RAM upgrades, those who haven't purchased the Pros yet will wait until then, and maybe force Apple's hands.

 

[SSDGUY]

WHERE ARE THE MAC MINIS AND MAC PROS!!!!!

The machine that was most recently updated already gets a rumor and the rest are left to rot in the dust...

Ahh shut up and keep waiting, devoted Apple user!
[doublepost=1484723548][/doublepost]

I have yet to utilize the full 16gb of RAM... Sure 32gb will be cool, more of a bragging right.

A more powerful machine that yours is for bragging? Uhh …

 

[Appleaker]

You are too blind to your own arguement. Screen sizes so similar is beyond stupid. It's clear as day except for someone as ignorant to costs as you.

You are blind to my argument because you're so extremely triggered by screen sizes that you do not understand my point. Hint: the point wasn't about screen size.
I run a business. I know how much these things cost. And while it could certainly cost billions, the return on investment would be there.
I've never met someone so ignorant that they don't take the time to understand what others are saying.

Give up. You're so wrapped up in your own argument you can't see mine.

 

[robeddie]

The touchbar strikes me as the perfect example of an "anti-pro" feature. Not every user has all the keyboard shortcuts committed to memory, and I see the touchbar as aiming to bring the benefits of shortcuts to this group of users. Now I can open a new safari tab with the same amount of ease even if I don't know the "cmd + T" function.

Quite in line with the theory of Apple trying to make the 15" MBP more appealing to the mass market.

Ok, let's take one program where keyboard shortcuts are a 'thing' - Premiere CC.

There are more than 100 different keyboard shortcuts. That's the same with any program that offers shortcuts to get a lot of tasks done a little quicker (once you memorize them). The touchbar could reasonably hold about a dozen shortcuts, right? So the likelyhood that the shortcut your theroretical beginner needs will actually be on that touchbar, is questionable. But let's say there's only a half dozen keyboard shortcuts they ever need. Pretty soon even a novice will will have those memorized and won't want to keep reaching up into the stupid touch bar.

 

[nahkampfwombi]

12" Macbook with 16GB RAM? That sounds perfect !
I just need the RAM for my VM's. CPU doesnt matter that much I guess the Kaby Lake can handle some small Linux-VMs.
Then again I'm only going to buy this when they upgrade the keyboard to the new one.

Still not sure which kaby lake cpu they will use. An idea anyone ?

 

[Seed101]

So is he claiming their will be a more Pro Pro model? It's rather confusing... and I'm not certain how many people would buy a more pro computer and ultimately more expensive one, over 4 grand isn't expensive enough apparently?

Macbook Pro Plus!?!?

It's bigger!...works with the phones...

 

[Chancha]

Ok, let's take one program where keyboard shortcuts are a 'thing' - Premiere CC.

There are more than 100 different keyboard shortcuts. That's the same with any program that offers shortcuts to get a lot of tasks done a little quicker (once you memorize them). The touchbar could reasonably hold about a dozen shortcuts, right? So the likelyhood that the shortcut your theroretical beginner needs will actually be on that touchbar, is questionable. But let's say there's only a half dozen keyboard shortcuts they ever need. Pretty soon even a novice will will have those memorized and won't want to keep reaching up into the stupid touch bar.

A dynamic, contextually-aware on-screen task bar already exists in productivity apps since at least a decade, and to access them with cursor is not any slower than with the touch bar. The reason is that with most creative projects, the content at hand is the utmost priority to be reviewed at all times, so the creator's eyes should already be fixed around the canvas / render preview area, all the other floating palettes or task bars have to stay out of the way but remain in approximate distance to be eye-balled within milliseconds, which is the case with the cursor as well. The touch bar provide no immediate advantage to this approach, in fact it creates longer eyeball travel and finger movements to achieve the same.

There are however two other scenarios that the touch bar makes sense. One is when your main hand controlling the cursor is busy with a task that requires finesse, your secondary hand is then used for modifier of that task. Brushing for example, an analog wheel or dial is often a good compliment for changing brush size / paint color or other contextual choices while keeping your main hand free to paint. A one-dimension slider on the touch bar is a good substitute of that.

Another scenario is as a tagged row of traditional function keys, for example you can program Photoshop Actions to be executed by a single F key press, and with an OLED strip it can then display text or color tags or whatever that identifies that specific key action. Video editors have long done this physically on their custom keyboards, but the advantage of touch bar is it can be dynamically updated according to the active task / tool / context.

Anyway I think the touch bar has its potential to help increase productivity, but as with most other specialty input devices, the given professional scenarios vary so much, it is very hard to get a one-size-fits-all solution that excels at most tasks thrown at it. Apple's approach is hoping that with the touch bar essentially being a screen, with iDevices multi-touch, and an open API for devs, it is the most flexible possible solution to fulfil such a role.

 

[jjjoseph]

will the 2017 12" MacBook have a single TB3 port?

 

[Appleaker]

will the 2017 12" MacBook have a single TB3 port?

Yes, since the CPU has native support for TB3 now. Apple don't want to be using USB-C (5/10Gbps).

 

[jjjoseph]

Yes, since the CPU has native support for TB3 now. Apple don't want to be using USB-C (5/10Gbps).

I just picked up a 2016 refurbished 12" MacBook space grey.. I kinda love it. Hopefully I can sell it in April, a single TB3 with Kaby Lake would be a dream portable setup..

 

[Raist3001]

That's not how the world works. If people didn't buy the original iPhone because it lacked 3G and other features, it would have failed.

LOL...you are comparing a brand new release to an already established line. And one of the chief complaints then was that the original iPhone did not have 3G.

This type of thinking is silly.

On the contrary, it is desperately needed. Companies will only change when their bottom line begins to hurt. Giving apple a pass because they are apple is truly the silly thinking. Apple is not going to crumble suddenly because one of their releases fails to make an impact.

For many, the current MBP is awesome. It meets their needs and they're enjoying what it has to offer.

This is the silly thinking. Giving apple an average pass because they are apple. Professionals would be all to happy to disagree with you.

I'd be willing to bet less than 1% of all current MBP owners really NEED 32GB of RAM.

Really? Any data to back up your claim?

Want and need are two totally different things.

Oh I see, your perfectly happy with apple telling you what you need. I am not.

Most of those here WANT rather than need but they'll claim they have some special silly use for it. The truth is that most MBP owners would be just fine with an Air as they just do web browsing, email, word processing, and play music.

You are generalizing everyone. Very nice.

 

[jjjoseph]

I could use 32GB of RAM for CG, 4k Compositing or for 4k video editing, or even 4k Grading. 32 GB is usually used, BUT BUT BUT without a decent GPU, in the laptops, it is somewhat pointless. 32GB of RAM in a laptop with a AMD GPU is like a having 4 extra gasoline tanks strapped to the top of TESLA. Granted an eGPU is always a possibility, but I would want multiple GPU's, not just one.. Still waiting for a TB3 multiple GPU enclosure.

 

[robeddie]

will the 2017 12" MacBook have a single TB3 port?

Absolutely. If it means it can be thinner! - since thats all these fanboys seem to care about
[doublepost=1484757822][/doublepost]

I could use 32GB of RAM for CG, 4k Compositing or for 4k video editing, or even 4k Grading. 32 GB is usually used, BUT BUT BUT without a decent GPU, in the laptops, it is somewhat pointless. 32GB of RAM in a laptop with a AMD GPU is like a having 4 extra gasoline tanks strapped to the top of TESLA. Granted an eGPU is always a possibility, but I would want multiple GPU's, not just one.. Still waiting for a TB3 multiple GPU enclosure.

Wait, is your analogy comparing the macbook pro to tesla? If so, it would
have to be super fast and have amazing battery life - neither of which the current macbook pro has LOL
[doublepost=1484758335][/doublepost]

LOL...you are comparing a brand new release to an already established line. And one of the chief complaints then was that the original iPhone did not have 3G.



On the contrary, it is desperately needed. Companies will only change when their bottom line begins to hurt. Giving apple a pass because they are apple is truly the silly thinking. Apple is not going to crumble suddenly because one of their releases fails to make an impact.



This is the silly thinking. Giving apple an average pass because they are apple. Professionals would be all to happy to disagree with you.



Really? Any data to back up your claim?



Oh I see, your perfectly happy with apple telling you what you need. I am not.



You are generalizing everyone. Very nice.

Im with you. But you gotta realize, guys like him, who just bought that overpriced piece of laptop 'jewlery' are fiercly proud of it. So they are desperate to discount anyone who suggests their new toy aint so great after all.

 

[macTW]

You are blind to my argument because you're so extremely triggered by screen sizes that you do not understand my point. Hint: the point wasn't about screen size.
I run a business. I know how much these things cost. And while it could certainly cost billions, the return on investment would be there.
I've never met someone so ignorant that they don't take the time to understand what others are saying.

Give up. You're so wrapped up in your own argument you can't see mine.

As long as you use those screen sizes, you're too blind to design computers. You can't see beyond your own nose here. I'm done with this stupidity.

 

[rixax]

32 Gig is a showstopper. I would buy.​