New 4" iPhone With 12MP Camera Said to Cost $400-$500, iPhone 5s to Receive 50% Price Cut

[nando87]

They will do it , but not because sales are falling. They will do it when 16gb won' t be enough for the non power users anymore . For now they will always offer 16gb basemodels, just because there still is demand for a cheaper16gb model.

Oh man, you can bet on that. It takes just a sales decline forecast and 50+% customer base which is not upgrading for changing from 1 size to 3 and maybe 250 USD phones.

One thing is being arrogant while growing, and other very different going on stage to make a post earnings call conference while having negative growth. Make no mistake, Rome is starting to burn

 

[ValO]

Oh man, you can bet on that. It takes just a sales decline forecast and 50+% customer base which is not upgrading for changing from 1 size to 3 and maybe 250 USD phones.

One thing is being arrogant while growing, and other very different going on stage to make a post earnings call conference while having negative growth. Make no mistake, Rome is starting to burn

I am all in for a 24GB for 649 .Or a 48 gb for 699. But Rome is burning?
I have high expectations of the iPhone 7 and 7s.
Only Samsung will be able to follow on the higher end, perhaps Huawei .
Because of resources, the rest will offer budget phones with low margins, lesser r&d, etc. Apple is closing the technical/spec gap fast. It has already happened on soc development and in the next years they wil close the gap in display and camera tech at a rapid pace.

 

[nando87]

I am all in for a 24GB for 649 .Or a 48 gb for 699. But Rome is burning?
I have high expectations of the iPhone 7 and 7s.
Only Samsung will be able to follow on the higher end, perhaps Huawei .
Because of resources, the rest will offer budget phones with low margins, lesser r&d, etc. Apple is closing the technical/spec gap fast. It has already happened on soc development and in the next years they wil close the gap in display and camera tech at a rapid pace.

Financially Apple has been growing by adding new territories and carriers (NTT Docomo and China Mobile after the 2012 crash, in which there wasn't a sales decline but a margins decline and a growth pace decline). Now it's reaching saturation when talking about territories and carriers, so it has to:

-Wait until middle class grows in China and others (too slow)
-Convince their installed user base to upgrade
-Increase market share in those territories.

They're trying to convince old customers by new designs and specs bumps -too slowly-, they're trying to increase market share by increasing the screen sizes offering -already done- and lowering prices.

Now, if this makes no effect, and the results which will be released this quarter are the start of a new trend, in a year and a half or two, you'll see Tim Cook's head being served to shareholders. Then, Rome will be burning big.

Quite all the institutional shareholders have been selling AAPL since last summer. iCahn and Einhorn have been selling AAPL since late 2015, and I'm not talking about making cash for covering energy positions or a market correcting, I'm talking about the own problems Apple is facing. If the trend doesn't reverse, this will be a very serious problem and another 90s style era. If the iPhone growth is really dead, and there is no substitute, this will get ugly.

 

[ValO]

Ye

Financially Apple has been growing by adding new territories and carriers (NTT Docomo and China Mobile after the 2012 crash, in which there wasn't a sales decline but a margins decline and a growth pace decline). Now it's reaching saturation when talking about territories and carriers, so it has to:

-Wait until middle class grows in China and others (too slow)
-Convince their installed used base to upgrade
-Increase market share in those territories.

They're trying to convince old customers by new designs and specs bumps -too slowly-, they're trying to increase market share by increasing the screen sizes offering -already done- and lowering prices.

Now, if this makes no effect, and the results which will be released this quarter are the start of a new trend, in a year and a half or two, you'll see Tim Cook's head being served to shareholders. Then, Rome will be burning big.

Quite all the institutional shareholders have been selling AAPL since last summer. iCahn and Einhorn have been selling AAPL since late 2015, and I'm not talking about making cash for covering energy positions or a market correcting, I'm talking about the own problems Apple is facing. If the trend doesn't reverse, this will be a very serious problem and another 90s style era. If the iPhone growth is really dead, and there is no substitute, this will get ugly.

it could be, but they won' t change that by making 32gb basemodels right now.

They have to reverse declining iPad and Mac sales by developing hybrids.
They have to speed up development of the Apple TV and offer more advanced hw to get it up to ps4, Xbox one standards and stimulating content for cable cutters.
They have to release a great update for the Apple Watch, which could be the next blockbuster.
They have tospeed up AR/VR development, and bring something more than a strap on your head iPhone the next 2 years.
They need to offer the best hw in iPhones , which is already happening right now...( still lagging a little bit in display dev though for the next 1.5 year).
And they have a lot of markets that still have hughe potential like India and South America . Brands like Samsung are already established in these markets, and have far less headroom than Apple has globally.

There are a lot of chances in product segments they just entered...

The outlook isn' t that dark...
Every year, Apple was doomed, and after, they always came out on top...

 

[nando87]

Ye

it could be, but they won' t change that by making 32gb basemodels right now.

It's a state of mind. Selling not-that-good products and taking short sighted bean counting decisions contribute to create these problems. "Apple sells user experience, not specs" works until it doesn't because you're too greedy. That reputation can be paid very expensive, if they sold hardware like the Galaxy S7 has, but with a supreme optimization, then they would take the market by storm. But in the next earnings call margins would suffer and their position and pocket would be in danger, and that's all they think: from 3 months to a year as a lot. And to be sincere, such direction should have be taken a long ago. Now it's quite late.

 

[chasonstone]

That's fine, Apple has the iPhone 6 and 6+ for you. Lots of people LOVE normal sized screens and hate the 4.7inch and even larger monstrosities.

I would argue that 4.7 is more of a "normal" screen size than 4 is. Not saying that they shouldn't have options and I'm certainly not opposed to a new 4 inch phone, but I think realistically the 4.7 would be the normal in most peoples eyes today and the 5.5 and 4 the out of the norm options for people with preferences in either direction. Heck, I don't actually even know anyone with a 6 or 6S but I know plenty with the plus versions. So I think the "normalcy" skews towards bigger. I know there are people who prefer the smaller phones and I get it, but I think people need to accept the fact that what was "normal" 4 years ago isn't the same now. With that being said I do think they should have options for everyone. My hope for the future of the 4 inch model is they keep it on par with the other sizes. I really think keeping them all the same (as close as possible feature wise) and just giving people the choice of screen size without compromise is the best route. If apple could reduce bezel sizes I would take an even larger screen honestly. My 6 Plus is big, but I've never had a problem with pocketability or usability. I don't really know what to compare them to but I would assume my hands are average. Now I'm at a point where I can't really even imagine going back to a small screen.

 

[nando87]

When the iPod was released, it was a specs monster. Yes, it was expensive, but the technology was amazing. Expensive and amazing. When the iPhone was released, it was the same. Amazing and expensive. Nowadays, there is too much under-spec and cheapening for making a pair of bucks more, let's be honest. I'm not saying Apple has to sell cheap crap, au contraire, what I say is Apple should sell top hardware, expensive, but amazing. 16 gb, old technology screens, and expensive, that's just bean counting. They still sale that crappy Thunderbolt Display for a million bucks, 2012 MacBooks and low resolution Airs. That's not the Apple you can love.

I'm just saying what Steve Jobs said when he returned to Apple: stop selling crap. Focus on products, not on accountants. That makes you more money long term. Back in the day I'm sure nobody said the "it has less gb/power but better user experience" about the iPod or iPhone: They had both, hardware power, high end technology and optimization. Don't make me quote all the crappy hardware and specs Apple is selling today.

 

[Truefan31]

Oh man, you can bet on that. It takes just a sales decline forecast and 50+% customer base which is not upgrading for changing from 1 size to 3 and maybe 250 USD phones.

One thing is being arrogant while growing, and other very different going on stage to make a post earnings call conference while having negative growth. Make no mistake, Rome is starting to burn

Rome is burning? Lol not this year I bet.

 

[nando87]

Rome is burning? Lol not this year I bet.

It's starting. That's how it starts. 200bn less market cap, negative trend... let it roll and see.

 

[Truefan31]

It's starting. That's how it starts. 200bn less market cap, negative trend... let it roll and see.

Sure lets see. Cuz I'd love to know who's doing the burning.

 

[ValO]

It's a state of mind. Selling not-that-good products and taking short sighted bean counting decisions contribute to create these problems. "Apple sells user experience, not specs" works until it doesn't because you're too greedy. That reputation can be paid very expensive, if they sold hardware like the Galaxy S7 has, but with a supreme optimization, then they would take the market by storm. But in the next earnings call margins would suffer and their position and pocket would be in danger, and that's all they think: from 3 months to a year as a lot. And to be sincere, such direction should have be taken a long ago. Now it's quite late.

Samsung hw is not that superior.
Apple' s a9 soc is great. Apple will come with a dual lens camera set-up, and Apple has always done well with optimizing camera tech. And Apple is setting up oled manufacturing or will go the superior micro led route.
It is all exaggerated. In 6 months we' ll see a great iPhone, and 6 months later we' ll see a s8 with better specs than the s7.
We can all talk about the greatness of the s7, but the s7 as a product by itself won' t sell a lot. The s7 is good for improving sales of the s6. That is a lot cheaper, looks identical , has the same res and oled and for the typical consumer a worse camera( only 12 mp now on the s7, s6 has more).

 

[I7guy]

My message still stands for those defending Apple on the indefensible. People waste time defending a multi-billion company that doesn't need your help.

People waste time bashing a multi-billion company instead of moving on. Don't like the company move on?

However let's not skew things, if you believe you're entitled to bash another is entitled to defend.

 

[nando87]

Samsung hw is not that superior.
Apple' s a9 soc is great. Apple will come with a dual lens camera set-up, and Apple has always done well with optimizing camera tech. And Apple is setting up oled manufacturing or will go the superior micro led route.
It is all exaggerated. In 6 months we' ll see a great iPhone, and 6 months later we' ll see a s8 with better specs than the s7.
We can all talk about the greatness of the s7, but the s7 as a product by itself won' t sell a lot. The s7 is good for improving sales of the s6. That is a lot cheaper, looks identical , has the same res and oled and for the typical consumer a worse camera( only 12 mp now on the s7, s6 has more).

It's water and dust proof, 32gb base, 4gb ram, bigger with less bezel OLED display.

I would say an iPhone with 32gb base, 4gb ram, the OLED awarded as best display in the market, water and dust proof, would be quite better than it actually is. Why isn't it? Will the iPhone 7 be? When the iPod or iPhone was released, such a thing happened with other devices? No.

 

[I7guy]

It's a state of mind. Selling not-that-good products and taking short sighted bean counting decisions contribute to create these problems. "Apple sells user experience, not specs" works until it doesn't because you're too greedy. That reputation can be paid very expensive, if they sold hardware like the Galaxy S7 has, but with a supreme optimization, then they would take the market by storm. But in the next earnings call margins would suffer and their position and pocket would be in danger, and that's all they think: from 3 months to a year as a lot. And to be sincere, such direction should have be taken a long ago. Now it's quite late.

I'm reading your posts and came to the opinion clearly TC is incompetent. As an apple shareholder your views on the market and hardware are spot on. I'm really worried apple will go bankrupt.
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It's water and dust proof, 32gb base, 4gb ram, bigger with less bezel OLED display.

I would say an iPhone with 32gb base, 4gb ram, the OLED awarded as best display in the market, water and dust proof, would be quite better than it actually is. Why isn't it? Will the iPhone 7 be? When the iPod or iPhone was released, such a thing happened with other devices? No.

Do I want to run out and buy it?

 

[ValO]

It's water and dust proof, 32gb base, 4gb ram, bigger with less bezel OLED display.

I would say an iPhone with 32gb base, 4gb ram, the OLED awarded as best display in the market, water and dust proof, would be quite better than it actually is. Why isn't it? Will the iPhone 7 be? When the iPod or iPhone was released, such a thing happened with other devices? No.

Yes, it is also half a year later released as the 6s, and touchwizz/android uses more resources, in the s6 there was a memory bug, even 3gb was not enough, and touchwizz uses more storage than iOS 9.

But why don' t you take a s7 then? Why do you want Apple to release their s7?

 

[nando87]

Yes, it is also half a year later released as the 6s, and touchwizz/android uses more resources, in the s6 there was a memory bug, even 3gb was not enough, and touchwizz uses more storage than iOS 9.

But why don' t you take a s7 then? Why do you want Apple to release their s7?

I know Android uses more resources, so what. Time ago, at least under SJ, buying Apple was buying high end, not average with excuses and high end price, at least that was the main concept. I want iOs better optimization and at least the same hardware level, not excuses.

Who needed a 5gb portable music player in 2001? No one. But it was high end, top spec, well made, cool, expensive. That's the good Apple core.

I don't buy it because I like iOs, but if they don't improve the iPhone, I won't buy the iPhone either. I've said it already, most user base is not upgrading and this quarter the iphone sales will start a decrease trend for the first time ever. The actual iPhone even has design compromises, I would like to know what SJ would have said about this camera lens.

 

[Truefan31]

I know Android uses more resources, so what. Time ago, at least under SJ, buying Apple was buying high end, not average with excuses and high end price, at least that was the main concept. I want iOs better optimization and at least the same hardware level, not excuses.

Who needed a 5gb portable music player in 2001? No one. But it was high end, top spec, well made, cool, expensive. That's the good Apple core.

I don't buy it because I like iOs, but if they don't improve the iPhone, I won't buy the iPhone either. I've said it already, most user base is not upgrading and this quarter the iphone sales will start a decrease trend for the first time ever.

How do u know people won't upgrade this year? You don't even know what the iPhone 7 will bring. A decrease in iPhone sales quarter, if it happens, doesn't mean "Rome is burning" either.

I think you shouldn't wait you should just switch now to a s7 and you'll be happier.

Lol thinking these companies care what you think. Shame on anyone thinking that.

 

[Lankyman]

Your Z3 lasting "two days" doesn't count unless you don't make a controlled comparison.

Does it really not count because it demonstrates just how far behind the likes of Sony Apple really are with their battery technology?

 

[nando87]

How do u know people won't upgrade this year? You don't even know what the iPhone 7 will bring. A decrease in iPhone sales quarter, if it happens, doesn't mean "Rome is burning" either.

I think you shouldn't wait you should just switch now to a s7 and you'll be happier.

Lol thinking these companies care what you think. Shame on anyone thinking that.

I've been an Apple customer and my family Apple shareholders for a long time. I express my informed opinion if I want, if you don't like it, I don't care at all, you can go to sleep.

 

[I7guy]

I've been an Apple customer and my family Apple shareholders for a long time. I express my informed opinion if I want, if you don't like it, I don't care at all, you can go to sleep.

Yep on these boards, a lot of so-called long time apple customers, shareholders, all holding informed opinions and "if you don't like my opinion" then ....

 

[Truefan31]

I've been an Apple customer and my family Apple shareholders for a long time. I express my informed opinion if I want, if you don't like it, I don't care at all, you can go to sleep.

And it seems you are unhappy. I also express my opinion which is why if you find iPhone not up your satisfaction you have choices. Shareholder it not it changes nothing. These companies still don't care what you think.

 

[I7guy]

And it seems you are unhappy. I also express my opinion which is why if you find iPhone not up your satisfaction you have choices. Shareholder it not it changes nothing. These companies still don't care what you think.

Seems like the topic went from discussing the new phone, to arm-chair CEOs citing their opinion of why apple is about to go down the tubes.

If you say it enough times, that apples growth will slow, eventually you will be right. The same things have been said since the iphone 4. So 6 years later, some of these ramblings might be true. I'd be much more impressed if someone knew the stock price on the day of the next earnings call.

 

[Zagor13]

I would argue that 4.7 is more of a "normal" screen size than 4 is. Not saying that they shouldn't have options and I'm certainly not opposed to a new 4 inch phone, but I think realistically the 4.7 would be the normal in most peoples eyes today and the 5.5 and 4 the out of the norm options for people with preferences in either direction. Heck, I don't actually even know anyone with a 6 or 6S but I know plenty with the plus versions. So I think the "normalcy" skews towards bigger. I know there are people who prefer the smaller phones and I get it, but I think people need to accept the fact that what was "normal" 4 years ago isn't the same now. With that being said I do think they should have options for everyone. My hope for the future of the 4 inch model is they keep it on par with the other sizes. I really think keeping them all the same (as close as possible feature wise) and just giving people the choice of screen size without compromise is the best route. If apple could reduce bezel sizes I would take an even larger screen honestly. My 6 Plus is big, but I've never had a problem with pocketability or usability. I don't really know what to compare them to but I would assume my hands are average. Now I'm at a point where I can't really even imagine going back to a small screen.

Noooo, 4.7 its not more normal its just that all manufacturers started making bricks all at once copying each other for a fad or something new but after a while you have to realize that large brick phones are not normal and user friendly. Normal Phones are those 4" and below screens as they are easy to use, light, can hold with one hand, hardly feel it in my pocket etc etc...I'm not going to be like sheep and pretend I like brick phones juts because someone else likes it or pretends to like it because they feel afraid to be with normal phone sizes of some reason. But, if someone likes gigantic phones it don't bother me but it looks kind of crazy funny (I know as I had Note 2 once bought it cause I thought I will read novels and such on it--ha, ha didn't happen plus after few months became a pain to carry and use more of a nuisance and was very happy when it stopped working after one year)...
4.7 (or 4.3 or such) might be ok if it had no bezels all around not just top and bottom

 

[furi0usbee]

I really think it's time for you to switch brands and get your life and happiness back. What you're going through now is very unhealthy. You and others complaining about base unit storage size is a teeny tiny blip on Apple's radar and simply ignored. Apple listens to the masses who are not into tech specs rather than the relatively few on MR. And for a big chunk of the masses 16gb works just fine. Sometimes it's not all about you.

And why in the world would you, feeling that way, reward what you characterize as a "greedy" company by continuing to open your wallet and purchase their products. Cut the angst and unhappiness and buy a Samsung. Time to man-up and make the switch. And then be happy and fulfilled.

Another one telling me to switch brands. Nah, I'm happy with my Apple products. I can both like Apple products and live in reality and understand they are screwing me with inferior tech for their "base" models.
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One have to suppose that a lot a people in these forums are shareholders, because if not...

Not just shareholders, MAJOR shareholders. The kind that hate their 16 GB storage, but really love what it does for the bottom line of the company. They are torn. It's sad.
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I'm so tired of the 16GB angst. Apple makes a phone with more storage. Buy it. Stop crying.

You people sound like the most self absorbed, self entitled, self appointed marketing gurus... I know there's one of the powers of two missing from the sequence, and that's blowing your personal sense of cosmic balance, but it's just a number like any other.

I don't go around whinging that there isn't a 97GB version. People would think that's daft. Why does the 32GB argument make any more sense beyond it being 2^35 and also appearing in a competitors lineup? Buy 2^36 bytes and give it a rest...

Or, better yet, buy a different make that better appeals to your numerological fetish and go torment their forum readers instead.

FOR THE LAST TIME. I will not switch from Apple products. I do the right thing and buy Apple products. They should do the right thing and put profit just a little behind customer satisfaction, just once. It's 2016. 32 GB storage should be minimum. Period.

 

[mr.steevo]

50% price drop of the 5S? Unlikely. Maybe just a signal on market price of used 5S.

So this year's lineup will be SE, 6S, and 7? Apple ditching the A8 so quickly. Still, it's great for budget centric consumers.

I believe the new Apple TV uses the A8