New 4" iPhone With 12MP Camera Said to Cost $400-$500, iPhone 5s to Receive 50% Price Cut

[I7guy]

No, I don't worry . I'm just calling out Apple exactly on what they are doing, that's all. Not sure why YOU get so worked out on defending Apple. If you are happy just enjoy life right?

Wrong on both counts:
1 he didn't defend Apple, which is where you got it totally wrong
2 he doesn't care
3 he was pointing out "calling Apple out" is a waste. They'll do what they do.

 

[trifid]

Wrong on both counts:
1 he didn't defend Apple, which is where you got it totally wrong
2 he doesn't care
3 he was pointing out "calling Apple out" is a waste. They'll do what they do.

My message still stands for those defending Apple on the indefensible. People waste time defending a multi-billion company that doesn't need your help.

 

[macfacts]

Because some of us actually care about the future of Apple. In my case, I've been with them for nearly 30 years, often when it was a struggle because I recognized the overall benefit. I'm really happy to finally see them having hard-won success... so it really bothers me when I see them blowing it.

...

How is Apple blowing it? They make more money this way. It gets some people to buy a higher priced iPhone for more storage. Everyone I know in real life that complained about storage problems with their iPhone got a larger storage option the next time they upgraded.

 

[SteveW928]

Don't get what? Apple is going to continue to do whatever they do. If you don't like it, don't buy. No argument there.

Define 'typical smartphone user'. The majority of people on this forum don't fit within the general population that purchase smart phones.

Bottom line..I was making a statement about my own personal use. No reason for you to imply I don't get it. Straw man? Really? I have been an Apple consumer since 1984. I think I'm capable of making my own decisions and choices when it comes to the $$'s I spend for my own use. I haven't had a bad experience yet.

Sorry, I wasn't responding to you alone, although the post you responded to, and a bunch of others... and even your response make a kind of argument that since one can get by on 16GB, that it's fine for Apple to start there. Or, they make arguments that we're wanting something for nothing, or whining about it being too low, because it's too low for us, etc.

re: 'typical smartphone user' - are people who want a smartphone and go out and buy one... i.e.: most aren't the techies that hang out here, know every detail, and probably just about visualize how many photos, videos, and apps they might be able to fit after the OS takes up it's space. Heck, even some of us techies were caught off guard by not being able to make space to run OS updates on 16 GB devices.

re: straw-man - I keep making a point, and pretty much everyone who comes back at my point does a straw man. I didn't mean you specifically, though if you were defending the thesis of, '16 GB is fine for the base model because it works for me' then you've kind of self-included, even though you might have unintentionally of stepped into the middle of the debate.

re: "I haven't had a bad experience yet." - I was pretty much with you up until a couple of years ago.

 

[latweek]

Because some of us actually care about the future of Apple. In my case, I've been with them for nearly 30 years, often when it was a struggle because I recognized the overall benefit. I'm really happy to finally see them having hard-won success... so it really bothers me when I see them blowing it.

You sound like you're in a dysfunctional relationship, where you believe you are "with" a multinational technology behemoth. Tip: Apple is unaware of your feelings. It would be prudent to re-think your perspective, as it probably is a bit unrealistic and u-centric. Best of luck to you.

 

[SteveW928]

How is Apple blowing it? They make more money this way. It gets some people to buy a higher priced iPhone for more storage. Everyone I know in real life that complained about storage problems with their iPhone got a larger storage option the next time they upgraded.

Short-term, yes. Apple makes some extra cash at the expense of user experience. Compound that billions of times with the many people it affects, along with all the other impacts of other similar decisions they've been making lately, and it starts to turn people off. It's not going to happen overnight, but you can't run a company like that anymore and stay on top. Apple is where they are for a very specific reason... user experience. Anything that damages that in an unreasonable way is a threat to their future success.

Now, if it were reasonable to be selling a 16GB premium phone, then I'd say up-sell away. It's a marketing strategy just about every business uses. I'm not expecting them to make everyone happy, no matter the needs or wants. But, I am expecting them to provide the typical user with a reasonable experience.

But, 16GB is simply no longer a reasonable base-level in the smartphone market period, let along a premium brand like Apple (selling at premium prices). And, it also isn't technologically reasonable, as even the cheap $150 Apple TV has 32 GB of storage, along with iPhone 6 like hardware. And, while Apple's base storage hasn't moved for many years, storage requirements have skyrocketed with Retina apps and a very storage-hungry camera system.

 

[Denmac1]

Sorry, I wasn't responding to you alone, although the post you responded to, and a bunch of others... and even your response make a kind of argument that since one can get by on 16GB, that it's fine for Apple to start there. Or, they make arguments that we're wanting something for nothing, or whining about it being too low, because it's too low for us, etc.

re: 'typical smartphone user' - are people who want a smartphone and go out and buy one... i.e.: most aren't the techies that hang out here, know every detail, and probably just about visualize how many photos, videos, and apps they might be able to fit after the OS takes up it's space. Heck, even some of us techies were caught off guard by not being able to make space to run OS updates on 16 GB devices.

re: straw-man - I keep making a point, and pretty much everyone who comes back at my point does a straw man. I didn't mean you specifically, though if you were defending the thesis of, '16 GB is fine for the base model because it works for me' then you've kind of self-included, even though you might have unintentionally of stepped into the middle of the debate.

re: "I haven't had a bad experience yet." - I was pretty much with you up until a couple of years ago.

Never said it was fine for Apple to start anywhere. Wasn't necessarily defending the 16 is OK. Only stating my personal use was sufficient for me at this point in time, don't see where I am 'self-included'.
Personally, I think this debate is really going nowhere. Apple, as I said, will continue to do what they do. It is up to us to make the decisions we choose to live with. For my personal use, I am satisfied with what I have. It works for me as I have the controls to make it functional for me. I speak for no one else.
For anything to change, people will need to speak with their wallet. Don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

[citysnaps]

No. I want an Apple product, and I wish they would do something for *me* for a change, rather than me always handing them my $$$ and making them happy. There is zero reason 32 GB storage is not the base, other than greed. You can't argue that, so don't even try. Apple has become a greedy company. They still make great products, but the greed has really soured me. I'm only again back in their corner because they are fighting the FBI, and that is something I agree with them on. But 16 GB?? Right. What a joke.

I really think it's time for you to switch brands and get your life and happiness back. What you're going through now is very unhealthy. You and others complaining about base unit storage size is a teeny tiny blip on Apple's radar and simply ignored. Apple listens to the masses who are not into tech specs rather than the relatively few on MR. And for a big chunk of the masses 16gb works just fine. Sometimes it's not all about you.

And why in the world would you, feeling that way, reward what you characterize as a "greedy" company by continuing to open your wallet and purchase their products. Cut the angst and unhappiness and buy a Samsung. Time to man-up and make the switch. And then be happy and fulfilled.

 

[nando87]

Bottom line here folks, only Tim Cook should be happy with a 16 GB base model. That's about it. To argue against 32 GB, as a customer, is rather insane.

One have to suppose that a lot a people in these forums are shareholders, because if not...

 

[lordofthereef]

How did this evolve into a discussion about storage size and corporate greed? The article has nothing to do with these things. It's like the old Mac v PC days. You could
Post a picture of a hotdog and the Mac and PC fanatics would be going nuclear on each other.

 

[Analog Kid]

Bottom line here folks, only Tim Cook should be happy with a 16 GB base model. That's about it. To argue against 32 GB, as a customer, is rather insane.

I'm so tired of the 16GB angst. Apple makes a phone with more storage. Buy it. Stop crying.

You people sound like the most self absorbed, self entitled, self appointed marketing gurus... I know there's one of the powers of two missing from the sequence, and that's blowing your personal sense of cosmic balance, but it's just a number like any other.

I don't go around whinging that there isn't a 97GB version. People would think that's daft. Why does the 32GB argument make any more sense beyond it being 2^35 and also appearing in a competitors lineup? Buy 2^36 bytes and give it a rest...

Or, better yet, buy a different make that better appeals to your numerological fetish and go torment their forum readers instead.

 

[Shanghaichica]

And OK. They sell a product and a customer buys it. The price is the price.

The price is the price indeed. I don't get all of this complaining. Buy the amount of storage that you need. If you think the price is exorbitant buy another phone. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to buy an iPhone. There are other phones. People have a choice.

 

[Max(IT)]

The point is at least hardware-wise, it proves it's possible to put such an impressive package together, and in a way it puts pressure on Apple to compete. This is a win/win for everyone.

Fair. But there are "features " I really don't want to see on my iPhone.
One example ? Ridiculously high resolution on a sub 5" display. Ok, they demonstrated you can do that, but it just was a specs war move to try to differentiate, and I like Apple not going that way (as I like Sony doing the same with their Compact lineup).
Apple doesn't make everything right, but they usually have an approach I much prefer.
The "throw all at the wall and see what sticks " typical of android world I like much less (see Samsung ? SD card and removable battery, no SD card an no removable battery, again SD card but still no removable battery, what's next? No SD card and yes removable battery? ).

I don't trust them either, they could pull the plug on Windows mobile at anytime, and as sales have dwindled to nothing, I won't be surprised if it happens soon. I think they were on the right track to make a viable third mobile system. The lack of support by developers was a crushing blow too. There are so many common apps missing.

I was very happy at the time they released Windows Phone 8.1 ... It was a move in the right direction and perhaps the best mobile OS at the time. But they ruined everything with a disastrous releasing table stretched over a whole year , the lack of new interesting models and the still messy App Store.

What's stopping people from pretending the 16 gb model doesn't exist, and treating the 64 gb version as the entry level flagship at $399 on contract?

I did, and it means my 6S is priced at the same tier as a 32 gb 5s (and I went with the 64 gb model). It's still excellent value however I look at it.

That's what I'm doing. I just consider the iDevices I'm buying as starting from 64 Gb.
I'm not happy, since I'd be ok with 32 Gb (at least on the iPhone), I criticized Apple about that, but I know my needs and I acted accordingly.
My wife is absolutely ok with 16 Gb so for her is not such a big deal. She could be even happier with 32 Gb at the same price ? Sure.

Do you think IOS slipping? I came from IOS 4 and like the latest iteration very much.

Absolutely agree.
iOS 9 is the best iOS I've used so far, and I'm quite sure I'll be even more satisfied wth iOS 9.3

 

[pika2000]

Phablet became a category because there are LOTS of people all around the world that can only afford one device, and that one device is their entire world ... their only connection to the internet and the rest of the world.

But for people that have internet at home, and a computer, and an ipad, and an ipod, and any other number of ways to consume content, a phone is just a phone. Compact size and ease of carrying is more important for those people than a huge screen or enormous storage capacity.

You are correct, and you are describing two markets.
The first market is the market in many Asian and developing countries. You are correct that for many, a phone is their only computing device, and like I said, people want to watch their content when they commute, and thus having a phablet improves the experience. This is the growing market, and if you are a phone manufacturer and you want growth, you have to be part of this market (again, it explains why Apple did the plus version).

The second one is also valid, and it describes mostly developed markets, eg. the US. In the US, many people have large TV in their homes, and they drive their own car. And your description is correct how a more practical sized phone is probably more desirable.

I'm not dismissing one market because of the other. Both are valid demands, and thus Apple is trying to serve both demands.

 

[Abazigal]

Do you think IOS slipping? I came from IOS 4 and like the latest iteration very much.

I guess it depends on what your definition of "slipping" entails.

I am not trying to make excuses for Apple, but I do feel that as Apple grows bigger and bigger and as its software becomes more complex, bugs are inevitable and communication will break down from time to time. It's just an aspect of the new Apple that we will have to get accustomed to, I suppose.

Since iOS 7, we have seen the implementation of several huge features such as extensions, handoff, continuity and widgets, which is no mean feat.

Then there was the infamous error 53. My guess is that the team in charge of said feature probably felt it made for a great feature, but failed to communicate this sufficiently to the other teams.

What I do feel they need to double on is discoverability. So many new features in iOS are made so obscure that I would probably never have realised they were there if I hadn't read about it on some blog. For instance, I learnt just yesterday that it is possible to force-touch on a contact in the proactive web (swipe left from the home screen) to bring up an expanded contact menu.

With the passing of Steve Jobs, I think what will be missed most is his legendary oversight. For example, the multitasking menu has been revamped multiple times, which suggests that the design team is still experimenting around with the iOS 7 design language to see what works and what doesn't.

 

[Analog Kid]

This is why Apple still sells 16GB iPhones. There are customers that just want iOS no mater what. Therefore, Apple can charge what ever they want.

They can't charge whatever they want-- only what people will pay.

 

[ValO]

My message still stands for those defending Apple on the indefensible. People waste time defending a multi-billion company that doesn't need your help.

We are just telling you that you are wasting your time in trying to make a case for upping base storage to 32gb without a price increase of such a base model. There are plenty of people that don' want to pay more and are happy with 16gb. That is all. I am defending no multi billion company. After all the years, you should just know better.
Perhaps with the iPhone 7s or iPhone 8. Or on the higher priced 7+/pro.

 

[nando87]

We are just telling you that you are wasting your time in trying to make a case for upping base storage to 32gb without a price increase of such a base model. There are plenty of people that don' want to pay more and are happy with 16gb. That is all. I am defending no multi billion company. After all the years, you should just know better.
Perhaps with the iPhone 7s or iPhone 8. Or on the higher priced 7+/pro.

We are NOT talking about 32 gb base model and MORE price, we are talking about 32 and the SAME price. It's not that hard to understand, and it's about time, we're talking about high end here, the most expensive mainstream smartphones, it's the same than increasing CPU power and so on. Why one thing makes sense and the other does not? Do they sell you an A7 iPhone 6s and a +200 USD A9? No they don't, because technology and the requirements of newer software increase, so products need to keep their specs updated. If 16gb were OK 5 years ago, now they can't be. PERIOD. People who use 16gb won't complain because they have more free space, so I don't understand the "they don't need more" crap. They do not need an A9 either, but it's a high end device. Being able to record HD and 4K video and selling 16gb models is a joke, just a way of increasing the ASP of iphones. A high end device should be a device in which you don't have to consider cheap problems like I can't record 2 minutes videos, my tabs reload and I don't know why. It should work without stupid problems like that, if 32 gb, 64 gb, 2 gb ram, 3 gb ram are needed, then put them, don't sell crap.

At the end the only people complaining with common sense would be investors because it will reduce their margins. But the thing is, ARE YOU INVESTORS or are you just absurd??

 

[ValO]

We are NOT talking about 32 gb base model and MORE price, we are talking about 32 and the SAME price. It's not that hard to understand, and it's about time, we're talking about high end here, the most expensive mainstream smartphones, it's the same than increasing CPU power and so on. Why one thing makes sense and the other does not? Do they sell you an A7 iPhone 6s and a +200 USD A9? No they don't.

It is getting long in the tooth now.
I know what you are talking about.
I know what you want. But you can complain what you want: it is not going to happen without a price increase.
Period.
No company will bow for: oh, we have enough money, so we' ll just drop IPhone ASP' s. In your dreams maybe.. No company does that. It is no charity, this is wall street business. And if asp fall, so will the stock.
When they offer 32 gb baseline at the same price as current 16gb, they loose lots of sales of the 64gb model. asp will fall, revenue , margins and profits will drop.

I am not defending this, I would love Apple to release a 32gb baseline for the same price. I wouldn't buy a 64gb anymore, like I did with the 6/s. It would save me some money.
It will just not happen in 2016 on the regular iPhone 7 for 649.

 

[nando87]

It is getting long in the tooth now.
I know what you are talking about.
I know what you want. But you can complain what you want: it is not going to happen without a price increase.
Period.
No company will bow for: oh, we have enough money, so we' ll just drop IPhone ASP' s. In your dreams maybe.. No company does that. It is no charity, this is wall street business. And if asp fall, so will the stock.
When they offer 32 gb baseline, they loose lots of sales of the 64gb model. asp will fall, revenue , margins and profits will drop.

I understand that they don't like it, and I understand that investors don't like it, what I don't understand is that a standard customer or user don't support it, no matter what.

Maybe they can continue selling iPhones OK, and iPhone users won't change to android because they like iOs. But maybe, too, a lot of them are using 4 years old iPhones because a lot specs have kept unchanged, and they are not buying new iPhones either. Didn't you consider that? If you have an iPhone 4s running iOs7 why would you buy an iPhone 6, if you don't consider a bigger screen an update? It is expensive and have the same 16gb storage as yours. You can't record high resolution videos or take a lot of photos, because you won't be able to store them, it has a better camera but that is not that useful without storage. You still will be having tabs reloading problems. You see? Until now, they have been increasing their carriers and territories, and that's why selling numbers have been exploding. Now, they're starting to see the problems of not being able to satisfy their installed customer base, that's why they're increasing the number of models and so on. Now they have china mobile, NTT dotcomo, they sell everywhere. But now they have to convince their own old customers of updating their devices.

 

[ValO]

I understand that they don't like it, and I understand that investors don't like it, what I don't understand is that a standard customer or user don't support it, no matter what.

If they offer 32gb for 649, lots of people would still want a 16gb for less money than the 649. And that is the other side of what other people want.
So let's say they release a 16gb for 599 for those people , you' ll come along in a few months complaining that Apple baseline of 16gb is ridiculous and not enough , and they should offer 32 gb as baseline model for 599.
Etc, etc...

 

[nando87]

If they offer 32gb for 649, lots of people would still want a 16gb for less money than the 649. And that is the other side of what other people want.
So let's say they release a 16gb for 599 for those people , you' ll come along in a few months complaining that Apple baseline of 16gb is not enough for 599, and they should offer 32 gb as baseline model for 599.
Etc, etc...

Yes, in 24 months I'll probably complain about the base model not having 64gb device. The same that I would complain if it still has an A9 processor, and 2gb ram, and not OLED screen. I'm not asking for lower prices, not even that, just for keeping specs updated, not selling 2011 speced iPhones as flagship models. If they don't update it, I won't upgrade my iPhone either. I know, I'm just one person, but if you start to add one person to other person to other person, soon or later, you'll have a problem.

This year they'll have the first iphone's sales decrease in their history. And that's just because a lot of their installed users base are not upgrading.

 

[ValO]

Yes, in 24 months I'll probably complain about the base model not having 64gb device. The same that I would complain if it still has an A9 processor, and 2gb ram, and not OLED screen. I'm not asking for lower prices, not even that, just for keeping specs updated, not selling 2011 speced iPhones as flagship models. If they don't update it, I won't update my iPhone either. I know, I'm just one person, but if you start to add one person to other person to other person, soon or later, you'll have a problem.

You don' t want that. But there are millions of people wanting a 16gb and don' t need the 32gb, and they will demand a 16gb model.... And they want it for less than the 32gb model.
That is just the way the market works.
They offer a choice of a higher model with a higher price or pay the same for last years model with 64gb.

I don' t like it, i don' t support it. I am not defending Apple , it is just the way the market works...

There will be a time that 16gb base won' t cut it anymore for the non power user.
By that time base will be 24gb or 32gb, but I don' t see that happening in 2016.

 

[nando87]

You don' t want that. But there are millions of people wanting a 16gb and don' t need the 32gb, and they will demand a 16gb model.... And they want it for less than the 32gb model.
That is just the way the market works.
They offer a choice of a higher model with a higher price or pay the same for last years model with 64gb.

I don' t like it, i don' t support it. I am not defending Apple , it is just the way the market works...

They prefer a 699€ 16gb model over a 749€ 32 gb model? OK. But I'm sure that given just this choice, they would prefer a 749€ 32 gb over a 749€ 16gb. Mark my words, they'll do it, but will do it when sales start to decline, not before as they should, because they're thinking just as bean counters, and that can be counterproductive, as we saw in the 90s. You can sell expensive products with nice user experience, but if you start to sell expensive products with bad user experience, then you're creating a problem, and a mother who buys a flagship iphone, starts recording and gets a full storage message after 1:30 minutes, I wouldn't call her a future customer without doubt

 

[ValO]

They prefer a 699€ 16gb model over a 749€ 32 gb model? OK. But I'm sure that given just this choice, they would prefer a 749€ 32 gb over a 749€ 16gb. Mark my words, they'll do it, but will do it when sales start to decline, not before as they should, because they're thinking just as bean counters, and that can be counterproductive, as we saw in the 90s

They will do it , but not because sales are falling. They will do it when 16gb won' t be enough for the non power users anymore . For now they will always offer 16gb basemodels, just because there still is high demand for a cheaper 16gb model. They can even make the choice of offering a 32gb model for the current 649 and a 16gb for 599.

But then you would come here to tell us you want a 32gb for 599. And other people will still want a 16gb for 549, etc, etc..