The next iPhone will be modeled after Apple Park. It will be a thin ring you slip on your finger that you pay for through augmented reality.
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New Apple Park Drone Video Shows Off Steve Jobs Theater as Lobby Lights Up
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Steve recorded a few videos to be played after his death, and I'm pretty sure one of them was a launch video for the campus opening. There may be both a public video as well as an employees-only video, but thats just my guess.
I think its going to be a real emotional moment for a lot of people across the globe, provided Apple streams it. I really don't know which way this is going to go, all I know is that the video(s) exist.
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Based on the couple of threads I participated in last week, where I raised the possibility that Jobs did actually groom Scott for the CEO post, but put Cook in charge because he'd be far better at the transition period, I'd just like to add that its interesting how Forstall is suddenly back in the limelight as the campus approaches the opening day.
Wouldn't that be an amazing thing if Jobs actually was the one who arranged things so Scott would end up out the door, just as a way to further his development and engineer his eventual return? And I think your quote would be a brilliant way to do just that.
And no, I don't want to put any kind of omniscient aspect on Jobs, like he was the end-all of every good path for Apple. Just consider that the guy had developed a truly amazing talent to see what people wanted - and needed - before they themselves could see it. His brain just wasn't wired in a linear fashion like the typical person, he also had amazing deductive and intuitive thought processes that continually took coworkers and the market by surprise.
Video or not, it will likely be emotional for some - if not many.
I can't think of a more anticipated keynote since the infamous one in '07.
No way it's not live streamed.
Wouldn't it be cool if it was a hologram? He walks on stage just like always, waves, conducts an intro of something new...
Of course, I'm the guy who though each floor of the ring ought to rotate, independently, every day, both to get everyone a new view, and to keep the entrances and experiences fresh. Keep the fun going.
Of course, I'm the guy who though each floor of the ring ought to rotate, independently, every day, both to get everyone a new view, and to keep the entrances and experiences fresh. Keep the fun going.
I'm curious: How much would have an "equivalent" Samsung phone have been?
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With $200 BEELION in the bank, I think you'll be waiting a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG Time!
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If Apple has been making the same basic phone for 10 years, what exactly have Samsung, LG, HTC, Google, and EVERYONE ELSE been doing that is so earthshatteringly different?
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Am I the only one that thinks they should name the R&D complex in honor of Steve Wozniak?
Yes, I know he's not dead; but it seems like his name should be on something, and I'm sure he'd be happy to have it be connected with Engineering...
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I think I read that 100% of the power was from "renewable energy". I know I remember that the building will be heated/cooled "naturally" for 9 months of the year.
Ah, here ya go:
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com...sets-records-in-solar-and-green-building.html
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Offtopic much?
I have said it before and i will say it again and again
Its disgraceful of Apple not recognizing Wozniak by dedicating a structure to him in the new campus!
He was one of the two who started it all....
Without either one of them there would have been no Apple or Apple campus.
Hope you are hearing me Tim.
Its disgraceful of Apple not recognizing Wozniak by dedicating a structure to him in the new campus!
He was one of the two who started it all....
Without either one of them there would have been no Apple or Apple campus.
Hope you are hearing me Tim.
While Woz didn't start the company or have anything to do with the operations, he did provide the technology that the company was based on for the first 10 years (more like 12, since the Apple II paid the bills until at least 1988, and let us not forget the IIe lasted until almost mid-95). It would be nice if he got a fountain out of the deal at least. Maybe they'll name the R&D center after him? That would be extremely legit.
Also, it would be nice if Apple could bring in as many people as possible from the early days. Randy Wigginton, Chris Espinoza, Rod Holt, Bill Fernandez. See if Mike Markkula would show. Look for the guys from the Mac Pirate team. Atkinson, Tribble, etc.
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I completely agree, see above.
Wow! 100% renewable. Pretty impressive, thanks for the link.
Um, I'm sorry; you need a history lesson.
Apple Computer was founded by Steve Wozniak, Steve Jobs, and Ronald Wayne. Woz also designed and wrote the "monitor" (operating system) software, and designed and wrote the software for the Apple 1 cassette interface ( tag worked so well it also became the Apple ]['s cassette interface.
So, without Steve Wozniak there would be no Apple 1; and without the Apple 1 there would be no Apple Computer.
So, yeah, he deserves his name on the R&D Center... (Rolls eyes)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc.
Wow... I never knew any of that. (facepalm.jpg)
I detect a little heat in your response, perhaps you care about the subject. In that case I really wish you did more than read Wikipedia for your information. Like maybe start with Steven Levy's excellent book Hackers, which should be assigned reading in schools. Then get into Owen Linzmayer's Apple Confidential. I have an extensive library on the subject, both books and magazines, dating back to 1980 or so.
Here's the thing you missed, which pops up in just about every bio of Woz and Jobs written over the past twenty years, but I doubt you'll ever see it in Wikipedia: Steve Wozniak didn't want to start a company.
Woz has said on numerous occasions he would have been perfectly happy staying at HP - a job he enjoyed - and giving away computer advice and circuits at HomebrewCC. Once Steve Jobs saw the potential of what became the Apple I (Woz's original board at HCC wasn't as fully developed as even that barebones computer) he decided, completely on his own, that they could sell computers and change the world. He dragged Woz along, who was happy enough having the freedom to run his own development effort from the capital Jobs was bringing in.
Woz created the "Apple Computer", but he didn't create "Apple Computer". The computer came solely from the brain of Woz, but the company popped out of the head of Jobs. Eventually Woz saw the light and participated - and it didn't take long - but his involvement in operations and administration was far more limited than even Jobs' closing days in the mid 80s after his on-campus exile and prior to departure. Woz cared all about the design, and very little else. He's been an employee emeritus ever since then, so he has access to One Infinite Loop when he feels like it, and he still has a number of shares, so he can attend meetings and vote.
(BTW, you left a few things off your list of Woz accomplishments, notably his Integer Basic, which you can read a little about here at Woz.org. Also, he laid out the motherboard for the huge schematic poster in the back of the Apple ][ Reference Manual. The list is much larger than that, but I thought perhaps you'd like to do your own research. The subject of Woz is fascinating.)
In short, "co-founder" I could agree with, if you can agree to what I said above. But "co-starter", which is what you apparently think? Not at all. Woz was as much a co-founder as Jobs, Wigginton, and Espinoza, but it was Jobs that made it a company. He was the one who reached out to venture capital and business talent. First Wayne, and then Markkula. I think Woz is a great guy, and certainly the company would not have happened without him, but to say he started it is an obfuscation as best.
If you doubt any of what I posted, why don't you email Woz and ask him? He will talk about those days with anyone who takes the time to write a well-composed letter with decent questions. Or call him. He's astonishingly easy to talk to.
So... yes, I think the R&D center should definitely be named for him, as his R&D was the basis upon which the company was built.
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1. Not to be snide, but I have been an Apple fan since 1976. If you check, you pretty much can't beat that...
2. I happen to own an Apple 1. (Wanna buy it?). In fact, my (one-owner) Apple 1 is the first computer I ever touched!
3. I am on Woz's email "Joke List", receive "internet pass-along" emails from him on a daily basis, and have email volleys with him on a semi-regular basis. BTW, he's the nicest guy on planet Earth, hands-down!
4. I just pointed to the Wikipedia article because it was the first thing that came up in the Google search for "Apple Computer Founders", and I didn't want to get into a big thing about it. (It was late...)
5. Sorry for the "heat". It just frosts me when people heap all the praise on Jobs.
6. Yes, Woz started what became the Apple 1 at the Hombrew Computer Club; and yes, it was Jobs that convinced Woz (and others) to Incorporate Apple Computer and start selling Apple 1s (after Woz offered it to HP). But, let's just say that it took BOTH of them to make the magic happen, ok?
7. The term "Co-Starter" absolutely belongs to Woz, as much as it does to Jobs. We will come to internet-blows if you keep perpetuating that revisionist history, seriously!
8. Randy Wigginton (who I have met, along with Woz, Jobs and Jef Raskin (all at separate times, back in the day)) was Employee #3 at Apple Computer. Not QUITE a "Founder"; but heavily involved pretty darned early-on.
9. Mike Markkula was an Intel co-founder (IIRC), and was responsible mostly for kicking in some money early-on, and maybe arranging some "credit" meetings for Jobs.
10. Allen Baum is also an early name, and, among other things, is responsible for a good portion of the Apple ][ Monitor, including the "Floating Point Routines" (that, according to Woz, Allen was the only one to use).
11. Ronald Wayne blew it.
By the way, Woz's Integer BASIC was also "included" with the Apple 1, and depending on which copy you got, may have some "Apple ][-isms" in it. For example, my copy of Integer BASIC doesn't return an error with "COLOR=" and "PLOT X,Y", even though they don't SEEM to do anything (HLINE and VLINE DO error, though). So, even back then, Woz was looking forward to the Apple ]['s design...
But anyway, I could fill this forum's entire SERVER up with FORTY-ONE YEARS of Apple trivia; but I'm sure I've bored enough people already...
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Agreed.
If thats the case, then you know Marty? How about Paul? Just checking.
Yes, I know. I have his home phone number.
I would have just posted from memory, but thats me.
What praise? By saying the guy started the company? Hardly. I think you're getting mad about nothing. Woz is another entire story for me, and he was the person I held in the highest esteem right up until Jobs' "triumphant return". The thing is, Woz isn't into limelight chasing, though he really enjoys it when it finds him. Not for the ego, but for the interaction. He's really happy about what Apple accomplished, and how much his earliest work means to us all.
Look - If there was one person from Apple I'd like to live next door to, for decades it would have been Woz. I was tremendously focused on hardware and I wanted to learn it from the man himself. One of my "to-do" items has always been to learn circuit design and coding from him, and have him sign my original schematic.
Of course I agree. But as I said earlier, Woz didn't start Apple Computer, Jobs did. Woz designed and built the Apple 1, and the Apple ][. One Steve was hardware, the other Steve was the visionary and money-wrangler. If you consider "the magic" to be the company plus the hardware, I'm on board with that. But don't let your hero-worship confuse you to the point where you look at Woz as a guy who was interested in starting a company. He would have been just as happy handing out boards at cost in his club meetings.
Wow, I just don't know how to respond to that. Someone on the internet is miffed at me for not agreeing with him.
Anyway, there's nothing revisionist about it. Right from the mouth of Woz, which you can find in selected interviews, he was not a guy interested in having a company. He just wanted to build things. He didn't start the company. Founder, yes, starter, no. And this is getting into semantics now.
Personally, I think we're saying the same thing here, but either you're saying it wrong or you're not seeing what I'm saying clearly.
He and Espinoza were sitting in the garage assembling things back before it became a company. I have software and manuals Espinoza wrote. I consider them part of the founding team. Not necessarily "the founders" but they were part of it. Wigginton was #6, btw. Yes, I had to look that one up.
Can we try this again? Without Woz and his designs, there would have been nothing to sell. Without Steve Jobs, there would not have been an Apple Computer selling those realized designs. They were both the foundation - the basis - of the company, but Jobs started it. It doesn't mean I'm affording him some kind of special trophy or championship belt. I don't know how much simpler I can make this, so I hope you realize this and get past it already.
No. Definitely get into those two books I recommended. And maybe go spend some time with the KFest folk.
You may want to check that one out. The Apple II Monitor ROM had no FP. It had the Mini-Assembler on it, I believe, along with the rest of the machine management. I know I had to get a firmware card to add FP to my first machine. Alan Baum was heavily in the I/O design, whereas Woz did the Monitor routines. But don't get too caught up in that - no one wore any specific hat there, they just settled into whatever needed to be done.
Yes, but I don't know why you bring that up.
You'll probably remember that HLIN and VLIN (I don't recall there being an E at the end, but that was a long time ago for me) were 4-bit LORES commands, while X,Y should relate to the 8-bit Apple "HiRes" graphics of the Apple II. Setting COLOR and PLOT variables had no meaning, so there was no reason to waste precious memory on an error message. Spurious code back then didn't necessarily return an error because of this. HLIN and VLIN were real commands, and as such if you didn't provide the right values, you got an error.
Then again, I'm sure you have more experience with this. My mileage relates to Apple Integer Basic, not the original Woz basic, but I'm about 99 percent sure I'm right on this. Perhaps you should email Woz, because he has this stuff right at the front of his own vast memory.
The trivia is available everywhere. Some of it is incorrect, as you're finding out.
Those two names don't ring a bell (well, not enough of a bell to be sure of who you are talking about); but I do own an Apple 1, and have since 1976. But I am also in Indiana, and don't know anyone from HCC, if that's where those names come from.
I've known Woz since 1978, starting from when I used to call him at Apple when I worked at a computer store here. Amazingly, he would even take my calls, and most of the time, would. chat with me for several minutes about Apple 1 stuff (my Apple 1 never had a manual, and he sent me one personally from Apple's files. In fact, I probably have the ONLY Apple 1 Operation Manual with a 1978-era "beige" cover, and the simplified, monochromatic Apple logo from that era, used on many of their publications!) He also personally sent me a copy of his collection of hardware/software notes colloquially called "The Woz Pack", which has even been published in an abbreviated form. (Damn, I wish I'd saved the envelope he sent that in!) Watch for that special Apple 1 manual and my Woz Pack when I put my Apple 1 up for sale, likely next year...
Oh, wait! Here's a site with a "Beige" Apple 1 Operation Manual, just like mine! (Scroll down on that page to see it) I have never seen another one like mine before now! Cool! Hmm, I never noticed it didn't have the "bite" before the article below pointed that out!
http://www.perfectlyintune.com/page34/page35/page35.html
And here's a copy of the "Woz Wonderbook" (Woz Pack) from Digibarn Museum. This has most of the stuff in my copy, plus some stuff NOT in my copy (at least as I remember from the last time I looked). Plus, my copy is a LOT more legible:
http://www.digibarn.com/collections/books/woz-wonderbook/Apple2WozWonderbook1977.pdf
I certainly wouldn't call Woz my BFF; but we have maintained a friendly relationship since then. The last email conversation I have had with him was about a week ago, when I asked him some questions about his Chevy Bolt. That sparked about a 3 or 4-volley email thread, which included another Wozniak, and someone else I wasn't familiar with.
So does everybody and his dog. I've had it since 1980. Been quite a while since I've called it, though...
I like Citations, where possible. But that's me...
He actually is almost too humble for that. After all this time, he finally acknowledges that he has a talent for "logic reduction"; but he still considers that most of it came down to just being in the right place, at the right time in history.
Funny! You accuse ME of "Hero Worship" after the Quote about "having him sign your original schematic"... ;-)
But I certainly agree that Woz likely would have been just as happy handing out those schematics and software-listings for free at HCC.
And I also agree that Jobs was the "money guy", and because of some of his brushes with true visionaries like Alan Kay, he somehow channeled some of that vision, and ended up being very "right" enough times that everyone is able to forget the many (fortunately less-spectacular) failures... But in the end, it (obviously) worked out, and Jobs deserves a LOT of credit, particularly after he learned some life-lessons at NeXT (and picked-up a nice OS!) for Apple's success after his "Return"!
If you are just saying that Woz wasn't initially interested in monetizing his designs; you're right.Anyway, there's nothing revisionist about it. Right from the mouth of Woz, which you can find in selected interviews, he was not a guy interested in having a company. He just wanted to build things. He didn't start the company. Founder, yes, starter, no. And this is getting into semantics now.
Personally, I think we're saying the same thing here, but either you're saying it wrong or you're not seeing what I'm saying clearly.
Sorry, that was from memory. I was close, though!
Except for the fact that I believe you are unnecessarily splitting-hairs, I certainly agree with your comment, but I think that it should have stopped at the first sentence; because any "deeper" analysis is bound to fall prey to the shifting sands of time obscuring many and varied little "non-events" that ended up steering this this way or that.
Never wanted to have my personal memories tainted by the "digesters". And I happen to live in Indiana, so "spending time with the kFest folk" sounds kind of unlikely.
You keeping Daniel Kottke and Wendell Sanders out of it, too. Those guys did some Yeoman's work in the early days!
But you're wrong about the Floating Point Routines in the Apple ][ Monitor ROM (well, it wasn't technically part of the Monitor; but it lived in the same physical ROM, like the Mini-Assembler ($F666G, FTW!), the Sweet-16 pseudo 16-bit Processor. Let me see if I can find a Listing; but if you have an Apple ][ "Red Book", (or the later Spiral-Bound version), the Listing should be in there. Point of clarification: In the //e Monitor ROM, some of that stuff (including, IIRC, the FP Routines), was kicked-out, to make room for stuff like the 80-Column video routines. That MAY be what you are thinking of.
Here is a SPECTACULAR (and SEARCHABLE!) Scan of the Red Book. Thank you, Internet!!! Note: I had to try twice to get it to load; but it's worth it!
I misremembered who wrote the FP routines (it was actually Woz), but check out page 94 of the manual for those FP Routines. Unlike Sweet-16, which was used in the Editor portion of Randy Wigginton's EPIC "Randy's Weekend Assembler", which ended up forming the basis of many Apple ][ Assemblers (and even a popular C-64 Assembler!), I don't think those FP routines were ever used in any commercial software product.
http://www.classiccmp.org/cini/pdf/Apple/Apple II (Redbook) Reference Manual 30th Anniversary.pdf
So, that's settled. ;-)
You have to forgive me. I tend to think of Apple ][s from the earliest-times, first. The first Apple ][ I touched and learned-on (but never owned) was Serial No. 0013 (yes, somehow, even out here in Indiana!), and was early enough that it HAD NO "COOLING" SLOTS along the top sides of the case! Bonus Points if you can find a picture of one of THOSE!
In fact, that Apple ][ was so early that it didn't come with a Red Book. Instead, it had one of those "Report Binders with the clear plastic covers, with what ended up being most of the stuff that was in the Red Book. I have seen a copy of that early manual somewhere online at some point; but probably couldn't find it again on a bet!
I think you are right about Allen Baum doing I/O design on the Apple ][. I can't remember if he had any contribution to the Apple 1; but I remember that Woz credited at least one other person for contributing to the Apple 1's hardware design.
But yes, you're right. As in most small companies, everyone ends up doing everything. There's probably even a little bit of Steve Jobs' contributions to the Apple 1's hardware and/or software. He certainly wasn't completely illiterate in those matters, even though he bluffed most of his way through at Atari...
Being "completist"; since he is also (technically) a Founder of Apple Computer, Inc.
LOL! You got me! It's been a LONG time since I wrote any LORES Graphics BASIC stuff, and went back and forth with the "E" thing, finally deciding it had an "E". But you're right. Just my 61-year-old brain failing me... ;-)
But you're wrong about PLOT X,Y. LORES Graphics had a PLOT command (but so did HIRES). Now YOUR brain is failing!
Same thing with "Unrecognized Commands". Integer BASIC would return "SYNTAX ERROR" on ANY unrecognized stuff that was where a BASIC "Verb" should be. In fact, that's how I found the "hidden Apple ][ BASIC commands" in my copy of Apple 1 BASIC (which loaded from tape). I just started typing in Apple ][ BASIC commands until I found those few that did NOT return "SYNTAX ERROR", like most did.
And there IS no "Woz BASIC" vs. "Integer BASIC". They are one and the same (albeit different "versions", due to the increased capabilities of the Apple ][). All Woz. And for the Apple 1, at least, even hand-assembled (as in, no Assembler used) by Woz.
As are you... ;-)
I appreciate the areas where we've come to an understanding, so I've just moved those out of the way.
Kinda sorta. I didn't know if you were a local or not. Marty was from M&R, Paul was the original big customer at the Byte Shop.
Those are some GREAT links. Thanks.
The original Wonderbook was handwritten notes by Woz, from the earliest days under the Wordsworth/Newton logo you see at the top of your first link. Those were xeroxed and handed out to all customers, before getting typed up properly, and then... xeroxed a millions times and handed out to all customers.
That isn't hero worship. I have a decades-long emotional connection to those two guys and the company that resulted from their collaboration. I derived a great deal of enjoyment from their work, and to this day I get a charge out of unpacking all those old gadgets and messing with them. To me, getting the lid of my childhood computer signed by its creator would be no different than a relative giving me a cherished book for my birthday, with a note in the coverleaf.
Despite Jobs' reputation for being unfeeling, inhuman, whatever, it was his turn to humanity and his championship of that which I find most intriguing. Never mind the RDF or anything else about him - here was a guy who stood in front of hundreds of people at a commencement and told them how valuable it was to fail. As long as you get back up and take advantage of the freedom it gives you, that is...
I wouldn't discount Levy or Linzmayer. As chroniclers of those very important days they are without comparison. Levy in particular can tell a story and bring it to life. By the time you finish Hackers, you'll feel like you know the people in those books. Linzmayer's book is pretty much taken directly from his personal experience as well as countless formal and informal interviews with the first 40-50 employees at Apple.
I didn't want to get into listing everyone there. I can also bring up Bob Bishop and Bill Atkinson, and countless others. Their work is going to stay with me, and I appreciate everything they did.
Thats not what I'm thinking of, see below.
I'd like to have it settled, but I'm still trying to get what these "Floating Point Routines" do. Some way to allow an early INTBASIC Apple ][ to handle FP math - maybe only for assembler BLOADS/BRUNs? That doesn't make sense though, because even on my first machine - a REV7 or REV8, I can't recall - I had plenty of instances where machine language programs violated integer math and tried to go FP, and it brought the program down. I remember breaking out into the monitor/mini more times than I can count. $3D0G was my friend...
Anyway, I thought you were referring to FPBASIC originally, which was why I objected. I have a note here, signed by Woz back in 1977, indicating that FP would not show up until the Apple ][ was released, or "APPLE-II" as he wrote it. I'd post it but I can't drop an image onto the page, I can only post a link, and this file is local.
That scan of the Reference Manual is outstanding. That was the one they got their own address wrong in the first couple of pages. Close enough for horseshoes, as the saying goes. I have the later green/white one, same as everyone else, along with a few other versions. I also have the somewhat rare Applesoft Basic manual where the printer screwed up and didn't run the green example text along with the black explanation text. I think people get executed at Apple now over screwups like that.
I don't have to, I know you're right. Those were early REV.0 boards in there. Red boards were also done in solid cases as well. What I'd really like to find is an old Bell & Howell Apple ][. Rev1, so that would need to be updated, but otherwise its Darth Vader's home computer.
He never denied that. If you watch his later stuff, like his keynote at ObjectWorld, you'll see how he justified that without coming out and saying it.
Nah, I'm messing with you. You could leave the E on there and it would accept it -at least that was what my old manual said.
I couldn't remember if it was LORES or LOGO/Turtle that had the PLOT command. Hey, that was 37 years ago! Give a guy a break!
What I'm saying is that memory was so spare back in the day that they didn't have error messages for what was unrecognized. SYNTAX ERROR was the result of a known command being used incorrectly. An unknown command had no use, so no need for an error. You could probably put a soup recipe in a "HELLO WORLD" program on the first Apple BASIC and it wouldn't give an error. (<-exaggeration) But its a question for Woz. I think if you remind him of his earliest approach at a tiny BASIC, he'll remember.
I'm not clear enough. What I call WozBASIC is the one included with handwritten or slightly poorly typed/xeroxed notes that came with early A1s like yours. If I remember the story correctly, he wrote that out longhand in 6502 assembly code prior to having the computer ready to run it? Am I right? By the time I got my Apple][, it was INTBASIC, highly polished and very debugged, and yes it was still his baby. I would never say otherwise.
Kinda sorta. I didn't know if you were a local or not. Marty was from M&R, Paul was the original big customer at the Byte Shop.
Those are some GREAT links. Thanks.
The original Wonderbook was handwritten notes by Woz, from the earliest days under the Wordsworth/Newton logo you see at the top of your first link. Those were xeroxed and handed out to all customers, before getting typed up properly, and then... xeroxed a millions times and handed out to all customers.
That isn't hero worship. I have a decades-long emotional connection to those two guys and the company that resulted from their collaboration. I derived a great deal of enjoyment from their work, and to this day I get a charge out of unpacking all those old gadgets and messing with them. To me, getting the lid of my childhood computer signed by its creator would be no different than a relative giving me a cherished book for my birthday, with a note in the coverleaf.
Despite Jobs' reputation for being unfeeling, inhuman, whatever, it was his turn to humanity and his championship of that which I find most intriguing. Never mind the RDF or anything else about him - here was a guy who stood in front of hundreds of people at a commencement and told them how valuable it was to fail. As long as you get back up and take advantage of the freedom it gives you, that is...
I wouldn't discount Levy or Linzmayer. As chroniclers of those very important days they are without comparison. Levy in particular can tell a story and bring it to life. By the time you finish Hackers, you'll feel like you know the people in those books. Linzmayer's book is pretty much taken directly from his personal experience as well as countless formal and informal interviews with the first 40-50 employees at Apple.
I didn't want to get into listing everyone there. I can also bring up Bob Bishop and Bill Atkinson, and countless others. Their work is going to stay with me, and I appreciate everything they did.
Thats not what I'm thinking of, see below.
I'd like to have it settled, but I'm still trying to get what these "Floating Point Routines" do. Some way to allow an early INTBASIC Apple ][ to handle FP math - maybe only for assembler BLOADS/BRUNs? That doesn't make sense though, because even on my first machine - a REV7 or REV8, I can't recall - I had plenty of instances where machine language programs violated integer math and tried to go FP, and it brought the program down. I remember breaking out into the monitor/mini more times than I can count. $3D0G was my friend...
Anyway, I thought you were referring to FPBASIC originally, which was why I objected. I have a note here, signed by Woz back in 1977, indicating that FP would not show up until the Apple ][ was released, or "APPLE-II" as he wrote it. I'd post it but I can't drop an image onto the page, I can only post a link, and this file is local.
That scan of the Reference Manual is outstanding. That was the one they got their own address wrong in the first couple of pages. Close enough for horseshoes, as the saying goes. I have the later green/white one, same as everyone else, along with a few other versions. I also have the somewhat rare Applesoft Basic manual where the printer screwed up and didn't run the green example text along with the black explanation text. I think people get executed at Apple now over screwups like that.
I don't have to, I know you're right. Those were early REV.0 boards in there. Red boards were also done in solid cases as well. What I'd really like to find is an old Bell & Howell Apple ][. Rev1, so that would need to be updated, but otherwise its Darth Vader's home computer.
He never denied that. If you watch his later stuff, like his keynote at ObjectWorld, you'll see how he justified that without coming out and saying it.
Nah, I'm messing with you. You could leave the E on there and it would accept it -at least that was what my old manual said.
I couldn't remember if it was LORES or LOGO/Turtle that had the PLOT command. Hey, that was 37 years ago! Give a guy a break!
What I'm saying is that memory was so spare back in the day that they didn't have error messages for what was unrecognized. SYNTAX ERROR was the result of a known command being used incorrectly. An unknown command had no use, so no need for an error. You could probably put a soup recipe in a "HELLO WORLD" program on the first Apple BASIC and it wouldn't give an error. (<-exaggeration) But its a question for Woz. I think if you remind him of his earliest approach at a tiny BASIC, he'll remember.
I'm not clear enough. What I call WozBASIC is the one included with handwritten or slightly poorly typed/xeroxed notes that came with early A1s like yours. If I remember the story correctly, he wrote that out longhand in 6502 assembly code prior to having the computer ready to run it? Am I right? By the time I got my Apple][, it was INTBASIC, highly polished and very debugged, and yes it was still his baby. I would never say otherwise.
Agreed, and thanks!
Oh, I've only talked briefly to Woz about M&R, and never about Byte Shop. All I've ever heard about Byte Shop came from the several "History of early Apple" articles I've read through the ages...
That's why I think my copy is probably more "original" than most.Those are some GREAT links. Thanks.
The original Wonderbook was handwritten notes by Woz, from the earliest days under the Wordsworth/Newton logo you see at the top of your first link. Those were xeroxed and handed out to all customers, before getting typed up properly, and then... xeroxed a millions times and handed out to all customers.
1. Woz sent it to me personally FROM APPLE.
2. It doesn't have any of the "index pages", like the DigiBarn version.
3. It appears to be several generations LESS of "scans of scans of copies of copies". A good portion of the DigiBarn version is simply random dots on an otherwise blank page. I have a few pages that are ALMOST that bad; but none that are actually a waste of paper, like with the DigiBarn version.
Well, I must admit I would like to have Woz sign my Apple 1 before putting it up for auction... ;-)
I DID always like the "fail" quote!
Sounds like the Linzmayer book would be more "meaty". I don't need a good storyteller; I need a good REPORTER, ya know?
I met Bob Bishop and John Draper at a party thrown by the president of the local Apple Users Group when I attended the Third West Coast Computer Faire in San Francisco in 1979(?). Bob is almost Autistically introverted. Nice guy; but hard to just "chat" with. John Draper, OTOH, was an absolute CARD. Very outgoing. Interesting, quirky guy.
While I was there, Woz and Randy Wigginton were sharing a room at the same hotel I was staying at, right across from the convention center. I got to pal-around with Woz at the Faire (boy, was THAT cool!), and was at a little meeting where Randy gave away copies of "Randy's Weekend Assembler" (Assembles on Weekdays, too!) on cassette tape (much to the chagrin of Apple, who wanted to (and did) turn it into a Product). I still have that tape. Never got a chance to shoot the breeze with Randy, though.
The Apple Floating Point Routines that are published in the Red Book are completely "Stand Alone". Most people would use them (the few that actually did) from Assembly-Language programs, although, with a little trickery, I'm sure you could have laboriously POKEd and PEEKed and CALLed them from Integer (or even Applesoft) BASIC.
They have NOTHING to do with Applesoft BASIC's FP capabilities whatsoever!
Yeah, I'm glad our little tete-a-tete resulted in my finding that Red Book scan. It's a keeper!
One of the interesting things that no one talks about. In the Red Book, in the first few pages, there is a "Setup" guide. And from the steps involved, it is obvious that Apple intended to offer the Apple ][ as a "PCB-Only", sans keyboard, power supply and case, just like the Apple 1!!!
The green/white Apple ][ Operation Manual was both much better, and somewhat worse, than its predecessor (the Red Book). Even as a young guy, I found the typeface used in the Green manual to be kind of small and "thin" for comfortable reading; but it did have some interesting stuff in it that the Red Book did not, and the spiral binding made it easier to use as a "Reference".
I never heard about the misprinted Applesoft Manual. That's a hoot!!!
I've never seen a non-slotted case outside of the THREE that ended up in Indiana that I know of (S/Ns 0013, 0049 and 0051). Weren't "Red Boards" a "later" thing though, to denote non-saleable Prototypes?
Oh, yeah, the Bell and Howell Apple ][. Gorgeous!!! And there's also a Black "Macintosh TV" (the Mac Performa 550 one), that's really cool, too!
https://qz.com/497396/a-visual-history-of-apples-tv-products/
But what I'd like to get is one of those Apple //e cards that went into certain Mac Performa models. I have a 575 that that would be really cool with!
Interesting.
But it WAS HLIN and VLIN. I was just having a "senior moment"...
Why? It was JUST as long ago for me and that HLIN/VLIN thing, LOL!!!I couldn't remember if it was LORES or LOGO/Turtle that had the PLOT command. Hey, that was 37 years ago! Give a guy a break!
Nope, sorry. You're wrong. Integer BASIC on either the Apple 1 or ][ would respond with "SYNTAX ERROR" if you typed ANYTHING unrecognizable, that it thought should be where a "Command Name" should be. In no way could you enter a soup recipe and get anything but a string of SYNTAX ERROR responses...
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What you are calling "WozBASIC" was merely the first version of what ended up in the Apple ][ ROMs. Yes, it was hand-assembled on paper by Woz, and (I'm sure) hand-typed into the Apple 1 by the same hand. It was saved to Tape, and copied/distributed along with Apple 1s.
Yes, the Apple ][ version is a bit more "polished", but it is essentially the same code, with some additional commands added.
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See, if you did that you should keep it at least for a few years. Otherwise you're just adding value to someone else's experience besides yours. If I'd been able to get both Steves on my Apple ][ lid, I would have done it in a heartbeat, because that machine was never leaving my house to begin with. I would have hung it on the wall in my home office/computer museum, and used a lid from one of my other machines on that computer.
They're both equally valuable. Levy had a lot of access that was not available to others in the press. Same with Linzmeyer. His reads more like a Wiki though, or at least like Hertzfeld's Folklore site. Every chapter has tons of callouts on the sidebars leading to little anecdotes. Its a tremendously fun read. Levy's Hackers its on another plane entirely. You and I are from the same era, and it will make you tremendously wistful for those days. It was incredible seeing Online Systems from "the other side", instead of from the cheesy HIRES graphics of Mystery House - the actual program that convinced me to buy a Mac instead of the TI-99/4A that I had expected to buy when I walked into Computerland that day. While reading the stories about Ken and Roberta Williams, the feeling I got from that game when it was new to me was always tapping me on the shoulder. Reading about the Carlson's brought up Choplifter, etc. Great pages in there about Olaf Lubeck and Nasir Gebelli. I have their games as well. It was an amazing piece of time travel. It also made me jealous of those folks who were there at the very beginning, at TMRC MIT.
Yes indeed. That was covered in both of the books I mentioned, I think. It was Jobs, again, who pushed for that. He wanted it to look less like a machine and more like a friendly piece of decor that average people -who might otherwise be adverse to technology -would be happy to invite into their house. It certainly was a hit at the Faire that year, and the case was a big part of that appeal.
When my home reno is completed I'll see if I can dig it out and get some scans for you. Until then, the less I disturb that collection, the better. Drywall dust is the enemy. I'm dreading opening the boxes anyway, because it'll be time to do the peroxide treatment on six entire cases, along with one or two printers, a couple of Apple RGB monitors, at least ten DISK ][s, a DuoDISK, and then theres the Macs...
WozBASIC is my preferred term for it, and I know the proper terms is Apple ][ Integer Basic, but I believe WozBASIC is what it was nicknamed at Apple in the pre-Bandley offices. (What was their original address? I can't remember it.) I completely agree though that it was one hundred percent Woz from beginning until the end of the Apple ][/][+, and I'm pretty certain all the way through 1995.
re: the error message discussion - Yes the soup recipe was an exaggeration, but I was just making a point there. Just ask Woz about it.
Yeah, but I need to sell my Apple 1 before the prices collapse. It's my retirement-fund, don'tcha know...?
Wow! Came in for a 99/4 and walked out with a MAC?!? That guy needed to be named "Salesman of the Century!", LOL!!!
When I worked at a computer store back in 1978-79, I sold an Apple ][ to a guy (who I still know) who came in for a CABLE!
Ah, Choplifter... Makes me want to fire-up my ][... "Chopper-Lifter" for the Mac is pretty good; but I still like Choplifter a little better.
I remember hacking Hard Hat Mac to give me infinite lives (well, 255 is pretty "infinite"!).
Interesting. Ok, ya got me there. Maybe I should take a look. I'm just partly "afraid" that I'll slip so deep into "nostalgia mode" that I'll have to set my Apple ][s back up and start writing 6502 assembly programs again. I was actually pretty hot sh** on assembly-language for the Apple ][ (and other 6502-based systems), if I do say so myself... ;-)
But do you have an Apple ][ 3.5 (Lyra) drive? The one they made for the //c? THOSE are cool! I wrote a "driver" for it, so you could use that drive with DOS3.3, rather than just ProDOS. Worked pretty good. Also used those on an Apple ][-based POS system I designed and coded for the Indianapolis Airport. The 3.5 drives were used as "register tape" for the remote cashier booths that were too far away to be connected to their Corvus Omninet network, and were used as the "local backup" for transactions for the booths that were connected to the Omninet.
One of the things that was cool about those drives is that they had a 65C02 in them, and you could actually upload and run code IN the drive(!!!) All of this was completely undocumented; but I disassembled the code in the Drive and figured out how to do it. So, I designed and wrote a "login" that ran IN the drive, and so was QUITE immune to attack or corruption.
Sigh. Memories...
You mean the original address on the "Newton's Apple" literature? I have it on the tip of my brain; but I need to look it up just to be sure:
Ok, here it is:
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/apple/apple_I/Apple-1_Cassette_Interface.pdf
I understand; but I still insist that Integer BASIC (WozBASIC) absolutely would return an ERROR (pretty sure it would be a SYNTAX ERROR) if you entered ANYTHING it didn't recognize.