That's why 4K is already obsolete, nobody should be buying one or any box that streams it. HDR 4K is here and will quickly be adopted because the bandwidth savings are amazing. Pretty sure Apple knows this and will move when needed
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New Apple TV Obsolete - No 4K
- Thread starter hogtown
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Time and time again tests have proved 4K is only beneficial if you're viewing on a very large tv and close proximity. Most people in most decent sized living rooms sit more than 8 feet away from their tv so the quality improvement you would get from 4K is very diminished at that distance. I'm sure you can see the difference up close, most people can.
I've explain in other posts when people upgrade to a 4K tv from their previous 1080p tv and they see how much better it shows. They attribute the quality to the tv being 4K but they are wrong. It shows better because the tv has better image processing, contrast, color gamut plus more than their previous tv. There are newer 1080p oled tv's from last year and this year that shows better than some 4K tv's from this year.
That's a better picture at a lower resolution. And it's like I said, because of the image processing, contrast etc. 4K does not mean a better image. Just like 20 megapixel image doesn't mean a better image than a 12 megapixel image. There are blu-rays in 1080p right now that will show a better picture than if it were streamed in 4K. It has been proven over and over again by professional companies who does testing.
I'm not saying 4K isn't beneficial but it isn't something to complain about if the Apple TV doesn't support it. Before there was 4K a couple years ago, did you rave that 1080p want good enough and you wanted something better, without even knowing about 4K yet?
According to anantech and other articles, the Nvidia Shield Android TV already supports HDR 4k:post: 22114887 said:That's why 4K is already obsolete, nobody should be buying one or any box that streams it. HDR 4K is here and will quickly be adopted because the bandwidth savings are amazing. Pretty sure Apple knows this and will move when needed
"..one final benefit, NVIDIA is also supporting full hardware decoding of 10-bit (Main 10) H.265 video, which means that the Tegra X1 and SHIELD Android TV will be capable of handling higher quality, higher bit depth content, including forthcoming HDR video"
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See, i don't think they will.
1, people will be pissed if they have to repurchase content in 4k (star Wars franchise barely went digital)
2. this HD, 2k, 4k, 5k, 8k resolution is a mess.
They will definitely have 4K content at some point in the future. There's no way they are going to let everyone else do it and not compete.
Apple may not be showing much interest at the moment but that's only because the market for 4K isn't yet big enough for them to make it a priority.
As for repurchasing content, not everyone minds. I've so far bought Star Wars on vhs, then the special editions on vhs. Then rebought them all again on laserdisc (still got those,) then again on dvd, then once more on Blu-Ray and now digitally. And I'll probably buy them all again when they get 4K remasters and again on whatever format ends up replacing that. And that's just Star Wars, there are plenty of others.
1. I know people that have VHS, LD, DVD, BD versions (not to mention regular and Special versions) of the same movie. It is nothing new.
3. So was 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p, but here we are.
I was extremely disappointed in Apple not including 4K support in their new ATV product. I have a 720p ATV in the bedroom and a 1080p ATV in the living room hooked up to...guess what...my 65-inch Samsung UHD TV! While the Samsung up-scales every signal it gets (regardless of the source) to 4K, the better the native resolution, the better the picture quality, with 4K native resolution being the best (and I can SEE the difference)!
The sad part about the 4K "omission" is that we won't have access to iTunes movie catalog in 4K. True, they may not have that many movies available in the new format at first but over time the number would surely increase. What would those who say 4K "isn't worth the bother because there is no content" think if suddenly the new ATV not only supported 4K but had 4K movies to stream? Was it really that hard not to match competitor's streaming boxes with this feature? Nearly all new Netflix series are in 4K. They recently put up "Lawrence of Arabia" in 4K for my viewing pleasure, meaning its possible that a large number of movies in the iTunes library could also be presented in the same format, no? So, for now, no new ATV for me. I'll simply rely on the Smart Hub apps in the Samsung to deliver the content (as limited as it is) in the format I desire.
The sad part about the 4K "omission" is that we won't have access to iTunes movie catalog in 4K. True, they may not have that many movies available in the new format at first but over time the number would surely increase. What would those who say 4K "isn't worth the bother because there is no content" think if suddenly the new ATV not only supported 4K but had 4K movies to stream? Was it really that hard not to match competitor's streaming boxes with this feature? Nearly all new Netflix series are in 4K. They recently put up "Lawrence of Arabia" in 4K for my viewing pleasure, meaning its possible that a large number of movies in the iTunes library could also be presented in the same format, no? So, for now, no new ATV for me. I'll simply rely on the Smart Hub apps in the Samsung to deliver the content (as limited as it is) in the format I desire.
Well, what you could do, given the current situation, is use a home cinema centre with video upgrade capabilities (like Onkyo and other), in this way you can watch non-4k content via a non-4k ATV on your 4k TV in 4k quality. It will not be true 4k, but it still will look better than non-4k.
All 4K TVs have an upscaler built in anyway which does the same job. So just plugging in any 1080p, or less, source will be scaled internally to the TVs native resolution. The quality of the scaling will vary greatly between different manufacturers of course
Not a "mess", as you state but clear human progress.
I'm sure Apple will go 4K.
Yeah, everytime we get tech updated someone complains. I'm happy to pay out the cost for new tech. Buying an AppleTV 4 for $150 is nothing really in the return it gives you. Life doesn't stand still, so there really is no good point in time to buy to catch up.
And to the fudboys who say that Apple could be releasing 4K like the Nvidia Shield, just don't get it. At this point Apple devoted resources to the part where it matters for all of us…development of the apps support and home kit. Apple will have 4K when the internet providers and the media companies loosen their grip on getting big dollars for every single little digital bit.
4K is still out a couple years in it's ecosystem of delivery.
The TV's are just a bit ahead of the delivery of the content. Pat the TV makers on the back for giving the markets an incentive.
I'm sure Apple will go 4K.
I'm surprised no one mentioned this, but how well would the A8 handle gaming at 4k? That seems like it could potentially be the limiting factor.
That's a question for developers like TrueBlou. I'm guessing the resolution display for gaming graphics is already near or at 4K (Retina).
Could an A8 push out a 4K game? Sure, technically it's possible (4K Pac-Man anyone ), but it'd have to be pretty undemanding of the processor.
Lets put it this way, you don't see a Playstation 4 or Xbox One throwing around 4K resolution games willy nilly, for good reason. So the A8 isn't going to either, it's not even remotely close to being as powerful as those.
), but it'd have to be pretty undemanding of the processor.Lets put it this way, you don't see a Playstation 4 or Xbox One throwing around 4K resolution games willy nilly, for good reason. So the A8 isn't going to either, it's not even remotely close to being as powerful as those.
Considering you can go up to 70ish inches on 1080p and still have an amazing picture , 4k just doesn't do much for me. sorry.. hype methinx
I've got an LG projector w/1080p and at 100 inches it still looks incredible on just about everything
I bought some new glasses last month - they helped too LOL
I've got an LG projector w/1080p and at 100 inches it still looks incredible on just about everything
I bought some new glasses last month - they helped too LOL
Well.... yes and no, first of all I can't comment on the ATV because of the NDA, but we can talk about the A8 chip performance in iPhone 6 form.
While my last answer was intended to be a bit at the limits (and a bit tongue-in-cheek), the reality is, with iOS games they're never exactly trying to compete on a like-for-like with consoles and PCs.
So, here's an honest answer based on just the A8 chip, not, just to cover me arse, the new Apple TV.
The A8 can play back 4K video content without breaking a sweat so Apple could have (and indeed could via software in future I guess) enabled 4K video playback. My guess is they didn't because iTunes 4K content simply isn't there yet, they need a selling point for the Apple TV 5 and neither is the customer base of a significant enough size, yet.
But with 4K TVs becoming ridiculously cheap, this will change over the next couple of years as we all decide we want new tellys (I've been eying up a nice 4K OLED for a while, but considering I just spent 2 and a half grand on a telly last year, the wife will need to be sent handbag shopping before I can sneak one of those in, anyhooooo, I digress (so unlike me
))As for games, well, the maximum internal resolution iOS games are currently rendered at is about half the resolution of 4K. Or at least I should say, that's the maximum resolution were allowed to publish a game at. What games choose to put that to full use and which ones use a lower rendering resolution for performance is pretty much anyones guess.
I've been playing around a little and yes, I can force games to render at 4K resolution internally with a smooth frame rate. You could theoretically do a decent 2D game at 4K and some simpler 3D ones. But clearly we're not talking about seeing GTA 5 in 4K on an Apple device (other than a Mac) for a few years yet. But it will definitely come, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the iPhone 7 or 7s started to usher in 4K gaming.
You need only look at games like Need For Speed No Limits, Breakneck, AG Drive, the upcoming Rayman Adventures to name just a few (all of which I think look pretty good) to see just how far mobile gaming has come in a short space of time. Think what another year or two will be like.
Of course, I'm often wrong, I blame my copious amounts of medication for clouding my judgement, speaking of which, time for my morphine. My next posts may go even more down hill
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Everything you said is valid, but I see the atv as having several performance ceilings that leave space for a better product; not just the 4K thing (although that represents a processor and HDMI version restraint) but also the Bluetooth chip that limits the number of players to two, and lacks focus on HomeKit; even its physical appearance, the fact it hasn't had a decent makeover, seems to suggest a better redesigned version may be around the corner. My biggest gripe is the price.
Having said all that Im def gonna pick one up, because of the many improvements over the previous version, but it's going to be with the understanding that Im sure I'll have an opportunity to update it again within 18 months.
Having said all that Im def gonna pick one up, because of the many improvements over the previous version, but it's going to be with the understanding that Im sure I'll have an opportunity to update it again within 18 months.
Specifically what improvements? Sorry but I'm not seeing much different in a meaningful way other than voice search.
What are you talking about? Steve was always about having the right technology at the right time. Proof: the Apple TV 2 came out limited to 720p.
I don't see the big fuss over 4K. With HD, it was a big leap over SD because SD quite frankly sucked. 4K is not as big a leap over HD because 1080P still looks pretty good. Until US broadband bandwidth catches up, I'm not chomping at the bit for 4K. I'm FAR more interested in having more OLED TV's than 4K.
Once again, the use of the A8 chip and HDMI 1.4 suggests to me that this prototype has been knocking around Apple for over a year. The fact that most 4K tvs didn't adopt HDMI 2.0 until this year backs this up. I get the impression that Apple still aren't willing to commit to the ATV properly: they want to release this 'cheap' model using left-over/cheap components to get the App Store launched then, if it sells well they will release an identical model with A9 and HDMI 2/4K support in 18 months along with a 4K option in iTunes. If it doesn't sell well, we'll probably have to wait until the market has almost completely moved to 4K before Apple <em>have</em> to move to a 4K model. Given the unknown of whether the ATV4 will sell well is probably what did for a 2015 makeover and 4K support.
Thankfully, I think 4K takeup will come reletively quickly - a lot of people who bought BluRay will likely upgrade to 4KBluRay, 4K will probably become standard in all mid-range and up TVs next (and probably some budget models) and Netflix and Amazon are in an arms-race meaning 4K will almost be seen as standard option in 18-24 months time.
Thankfully, I think 4K takeup will come reletively quickly - a lot of people who bought BluRay will likely upgrade to 4KBluRay, 4K will probably become standard in all mid-range and up TVs next (and probably some budget models) and Netflix and Amazon are in an arms-race meaning 4K will almost be seen as standard option in 18-24 months time.
Can't help but think those moaning about a lack of 4K are missing the point somewhat. Yes, there are a few 4k options out there but right now the operative word is "few". It's still VERY much early adopter territory and that is a problem for a mass market product like the Apple TV. More specifically, it's a problem when there's no 4K option in iTunes...
Fundamentally Apple will almost certainly not launch a 4K Apple TV until they can get a reasonable amount of content at 4K in their own media service. That'll likely come next year or the year after as studios roll out Ultra HD masters for the new UHD Blu Ray format but until then there's virtually nothing. Frankly I think it's probably the better move too, how do you sell a 4K device without the content? The keynote may be a tad awkward if they have to say: "the new Apple TV supports 4K so... uh... well here's House of Cards! And Daredevil! And... umm... no that's on Amazon Prime and they're not playing well with others... hmm... oh, The Smurfs 2!". No, it'll be "the new Apple TV supports Ultra HD and, as of today, we have over 500 films and TV shows available in superb Ultra HD quality through iTunes with more coming every week."
Fundamentally Apple will almost certainly not launch a 4K Apple TV until they can get a reasonable amount of content at 4K in their own media service. That'll likely come next year or the year after as studios roll out Ultra HD masters for the new UHD Blu Ray format but until then there's virtually nothing. Frankly I think it's probably the better move too, how do you sell a 4K device without the content? The keynote may be a tad awkward if they have to say: "the new Apple TV supports 4K so... uh... well here's House of Cards! And Daredevil! And... umm... no that's on Amazon Prime and they're not playing well with others... hmm... oh, The Smurfs 2!". No, it'll be "the new Apple TV supports Ultra HD and, as of today, we have over 500 films and TV shows available in superb Ultra HD quality through iTunes with more coming every week."