New Apple TV Rumored to Launch in 2022 With These Four Features

[DeepIn2U]

Because Apple has Apple Arcade and other games in the App Store and there are some titles that are not running as well as they could. At least offer a beefier model for those who also like it to be an energy efficient game console at times (albeit not with the caliber of PS5 and Xbox One X)


Cannot agree on this. Saying that Apple should avoid the gaming area because the Pippin failed way back doesn't mean the outcome has to be the same now. I really think the main reason for gaming on Apples SoC is the energy efficiency. There are also things happening to Metal that makes it a more capable gaming API now with Metal 3. And Apple sure seems to give it quite some attention in MacOS and in iOS and iPadOS.

I'm thinking if the Nintendo Switch is so succesfull when it come to "proper" (i.e. not the general free to play mobile games) gaming, why can't Apples platforms be closer to that?

I don't think it was because of Playstation and Xbox that Stadia failed. I think the main problem was you had to buy the games to then only be playable on Stadia. I also don't think the latency and video (compression) quality was as good as what for example GeForce Now was capable of.

Anyway, just some thoughts. I could be wrong.

So you're disagree soley because I mentioned the Pippin?

Did you forget Google's recent Stadia failure?
Did you forget Apple has double-downed on their gaming portal for iOS and M-based laptops?

Sorry, if you think Apple can be successful with a home gaming console at this time, I'd say you're delusional to what's been going on. Metal 3, and a gaming API isn't going to help.

I mean let's be candid and real ... Apple hasn't really pushed for high-end gaming support on the Mac - EVER! Consider that current Apple silicon-based macs do NOT support eGPU's should give you a major hint.

list the top 5 graphically intensive games and how they play (along with the top specs)

 

[DanVM]

Because Apple has Apple Arcade and other games in the App Store and there are some titles that are not running as well as they could. At least offer a beefier model for those who also like it to be an energy efficient game console at times (albeit not with the caliber of PS5 and Xbox One X)


Cannot agree on this. Saying that Apple should avoid the gaming area because the Pippin failed way back doesn't mean the outcome has to be the same now. I really think the main reason for gaming on Apples SoC is the energy efficiency. There are also things happening to Metal that makes it a more capable gaming API now with Metal 3. And Apple sure seems to give it quite some attention in MacOS and in iOS and iPadOS.

I'm thinking if the Nintendo Switch is so succesfull when it come to "proper" (i.e. not the general free to play mobile games) gaming, why can't Apples platforms be closer to that?

I don't think it was because of Playstation and Xbox that Stadia failed. I think the main problem was you had to buy the games to then only be playable on Stadia. I also don't think the latency and video (compression) quality was as good as what for example GeForce Now was capable of.

Anyway, just some thoughts. I could be wrong.

For some reason you think that gaming is about energy efficiency. But in reality, Xbox, PS and PC gamers don't care about that. They look for graphics and FPS, something they find in the latest consoles and PC's. Mac's still behind in these departments compared to what AMD and Nvidia offers.

Nintendo is a different story. You are right that Apple could make a gaming device with better hardware, but to play what? People buys a Switch to play Nintendo games, not to have the greatest hardware. What Apple Arcade game is even closer to Nintendo 1st party games? My point is that silicon is not the reason Nintendo is a leader in gaming. And I don't think that developing a console with M1 / M2 will automatically make Apple a leader in gaming, specially when you consider they don't develop games, neither are a game publisher. Compare that to Nintendo, MS and Sony, and you can see the Apple is miles behind in the most important thing in a console, games.

I don't think customer are looking forward to play mobiles games in a TV, and that's the experience we have today from Apple. Apple would have to make a lot of changes if they plan to enter the desktop / living room gaming market.

 

[GizmoDVD]

I bought a Roku Stream Stick for $30 plugged into an HDMI port and it does everything my AppleTV does - Apple needs to understand their competition better.

LOL

It's terrible slow and has ads EVERYWHERE. You can enjoy that and I'll enjoy my ad-free smooth experience.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

LOL

It's terrible slow and has ads EVERYWHERE. You can enjoy that and I'll enjoy my ad-free smooth experience.

For now ...

 

[ignatius345]

Please get rid of the damn search button on the side of the remote.It gets hit accidentally more than I care to admit. That and I NEVER use it to search for anything.

It's quite useful. I use it more or less every time I use the ATV to search. As lame as Siri can be generally, in this context it seems tuned to listen specifically for movie and TV titles and almost always returns relevant results. The main glitches are that 1) some services like Netflix or AMC don't play ball and integrate into Up Next and Siri, and 2) sometimes it shows the right title on the wrong service. Like, showing me episodes of Seasame Street that are available to rent instead of the ones on HBO.

 

[jdoyle]

Just too expensive still. I got two Amazon 4k Firesticks for $59 AUD in Amazon prime day and I love them. Love the speed and stability and the remote is great. Plus I was able to side load a few killer apps onto it as well.

 

[K.P.]

Put it in a cabinet? The remote doesn't need line-of-sight.

It’s a mounted TV.

 

[SadBoy Pro]

The thing that will make Apple TV truly better is the ability to play dual layer Dolby Vision files.

 

[star-affinity]

So you're disagree soley because I mentioned the Pippin?

Did you forget Google's recent Stadia failure?
Did you forget Apple has double-downed on their gaming portal for iOS and M-based laptops?

Sorry, if you think Apple can be successful with a home gaming console at this time, I'd say you're delusional to what's been going on. Metal 3, and a gaming API isn't going to help.

I mean let's be candid and real ... Apple hasn't really pushed for high-end gaming support on the Mac - EVER! Consider that current Apple silicon-based macs do NOT support eGPU's should give you a major hint.

list the top 5 graphically intensive games and how they play (along with the top specs)

No, not solely because of the Pippin.

I'm not thinking it has to compete with Xbox and Playstation, but at least it could get better. The Apple TV could use a little more gaming juice. Doesn't have to be ”high end”. The average gamer doesn't have high end graphics. Look at the GPUs in top on Steam – not exactly ”high end” until 3070 which is 2.13% of users.

Steam Hardware & Software Survey

The GPU power in Apple Silicon Macs aren't that bad (looking at M1 series here):

I think there is room for more gaming on Macs because of this.

There's also this, so at least Apple is doing something to get more games over. If the relatively capable hardware is there in more Mac users hands and if the Metal API is capable enough I definitely think there could be more developing games for MacOS. Looking at the price rise of hardware on the PC/Windows side it seems the GPU power on the Mac side of things have more relative value than historically.

It seems Apple is at least trying to get more games over. For example:

Getting started with Metal-cpp - Metal - Apple Developer

Metal-cpp is a low-overhead C++ interface for Metal that helps developers add Metal functionality to graphics apps, games, and game engines that are written in C++.

developer.apple.com

For some reason you think that gaming is about energy efficiency. But in reality, Xbox, PS and PC gamers don't care about that. They look for graphics and FPS, something they find in the latest consoles and PC's. Mac's still behind in these departments compared to what AMD and Nvidia offers.

Nintendo is a different story. You are right that Apple could make a gaming device with better hardware, but to play what? People buys a Switch to play Nintendo games, not to have the greatest hardware. What Apple Arcade game is even closer to Nintendo 1st party games? My point is that silicon is not the reason Nintendo is a leader in gaming. And I don't think that developing a console with M1 / M2 will automatically make Apple a leader in gaming, specially when you consider they don't develop games, neither are a game publisher. Compare that to Nintendo, MS and Sony, and you can see the Apple is miles behind in the most important thing in a console, games.

I don't think customer are looking forward to play mobiles games in a TV, and that's the experience we have today from Apple. Apple would have to make a lot of changes if they plan to enter the desktop / living room gaming market.

I know they don't care, but I think they should. If the power were to cost more money (has has been seen in Europe) this could matter a great deal.

I enjoy playing some of the Apple Arcade games in the TV. For example Horizon Chase 2 (Unreal Engine) sure feels like a console game and Crossy Castle is great for multi player ”couch co-op”. Now, I have the Apple TV 4K connected to a 1080p TV and while Horizon Chase 2 does have some performance issues at times (the developer says they are trying to optimize further) I still think it's impressive what kind of graphics and frame rates you can get out of such a little box. If Apple were to up the ante just a bit on the hardware side I think we could see more ”console class” games for Apple TV. Not having to be the real high end ones.

But maybe you're right and the market is already using Playstation, Xbox Switch and Windows/PC and that's it.
I just think playing on a computer is nice and I would like to do that in my OS of choice which is MacOS – maybe it's all just wishful thinking.

Sorry for wall of text...

 

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

HDR10+ was apparently added in tvOS 16.

Do u think it may ever come on macOS as well? Id kill to have hdr10+ on the new mbp

 

[Realityck]

Do u think it may ever come on macOS as well? Id kill to have hdr10+ on the new mbp

I didn’t see that verified. The same news was posted to many site mid September. Example this thread. It was posted the beta 4 added that. The Apple TV supports many video standards that a MBP with a HDMI can’t do.

 

[Smoovejayy]

When I used my friend's one, although playback is fine, the UI feels really slow and stuttery compared to my A12-powered one. To some extent this is OS overload (trying to do too much with too little RAM), to some extent it's just rising expectations; you don't appreciate how much smoother the A10X and then the A12 are compared to the predecessor until you have used them for a while.

The big problem Apple has now with performance is crappy apps that
- deliberately relaunch after they have been in the background for a while (Prime is the worst "big-name" offender here)
- put deliberate delay loops in their launch. Seriously? WTF?? You might find this hard to believe but the Hoopla app does this and does it BAD. You think fighting stupidity is hard? Try fighting malice.
- are just terminally incompetent at writing code and do everything Apple told them not to do, like making synchronous network calls on the main thread during launch.

Apple can't make apps like this faster, no matter WHAT they do. They could try Google-style naming and shaming (eg refuse to promote an app on the app store if it doesn't follow a list of best practices, including eg launching within 1 second, or whatever) but that doesn't seem to be Apple's (or at least Tim Cook's) way.

I’m really not sure what you’re running on your Apple TV. I just use it for streaming, no games. It runs just fine to me. Would I want it a little bit faster? Sure, but it really doesn’t feel slow or janky to me, at all. I would love for the 4K version to be a bit cheaper or have more incentive for me to update… maybe the next version will be more competitive 🤷🏽‍♂️

 

[PASwe]

I have high hopes that the new remote has Touch ID. This would work really well with Screen Time and Parental Control. Confirming purchases will also be easier. The new keyboards paves the way for this and it would explain why we get a new remote this early.

 

[DeepIn2U]

No, not solely because of the Pippin.

I'm not thinking it has to compete with Xbox and Playstation, but at least it could get better. The Apple TV could use a little more gaming juice. Doesn't have to be ”high end”. The average gamer doesn't have high end graphics. Look at the GPUs in top on Steam – not exactly ”high end” until 3070 which is 2.13% of users.

Steam Hardware & Software Survey

The GPU power in Apple Silicon Macs aren't that bad (looking at M1 series here):

View attachment 2092747


I think there is room for more gaming on Macs because of this.

There's also this, so at least Apple is doing something to get more games over. If the relatively capable hardware is there in more Mac users hands and if the Metal API is capable enough I definitely think there could be more developing games for MacOS. Looking at the price rise of hardware on the PC/Windows side it seems the GPU power on the Mac side of things have more relative value than historically.

It seems Apple is at least trying to get more games over. For example:

Getting started with Metal-cpp - Metal - Apple Developer

Metal-cpp is a low-overhead C++ interface for Metal that helps developers add Metal functionality to graphics apps, games, and game engines that are written in C++.

developer.apple.com

I know they don't care, but I think they should. If the power were to cost more money (has has been seen in Europe) this could matter a great deal.

I enjoy playing some of the Apple Arcade games in the TV. For example Horizon Chase 2 (Unreal Engine) sure feels like a console game and Crossy Castle is great for multi player ”couch co-op”. Now, I have the Apple TV 4K connected to a 1080p TV and while Horizon Chase 2 does have some performance issues at times (the developer says they are trying to optimize further) I still think it's impressive what kind of graphics and frame rates you can get out of such a little box. If Apple were to up the ante just a bit on the hardware side I think we could see more ”console class” games for Apple TV. Not having to be the real high end ones.

But maybe you're right and the market is already using Playstation, Xbox Switch and Windows/PC and that's it.
I just think playing on a computer is nice and I would like to do that in my OS of choice which is MacOS – maybe it's all just wishful thinking.

Sorry for wall of text...

Wall of text accepted and appreciated. It means we're communicating discussing and considering both points of view - regardless if we disagree - still sharing. This is what discussions should be like.

the graphs unfortunately (top 1 with link to Steam HW) is not comparable due to shaders and such.

Apple's iOS game market pretty much serves the same market as Nintendo has - always and will be. Just on a more mobile focus and support for XBox/PS controllers helps immensely. The issue is Apple still not giving top or last years A-series chip to the Apple TV.

Considering Apple's huge push for ATV+ as an app on smart TVs and such - it had to be done & smart move - I'm doubtful a traditional box TV setup will be around for more than 1 more iteration vs an HDMI stick powered by a USB-C adapter and cable.

It would be nice for Apple to really push for gaming on a global top tier level not just with developers as an 'option' but with their hardware (laptops, desktops and AppleTV) as really ideal options in the same conversation as PC's.

I'll keep hopeful, yet not loose sleep until it's finally here when I can fully enjoy loosing such quality sleep grinning gaming top tier games on ATV or a Mac.

 

[DanVM]

No, not solely because of the Pippin.

I'm not thinking it has to compete with Xbox and Playstation, but at least it could get better. The Apple TV could use a little more gaming juice. Doesn't have to be ”high end”. The average gamer doesn't have high end graphics. Look at the GPUs in top on Steam – not exactly ”high end” until 3070 which is 2.13% of users.

Steam Hardware & Software Survey

The GPU power in Apple Silicon Macs aren't that bad (looking at M1 series here):

View attachment 2092747


I think there is room for more gaming on Macs because of this.

There's also this, so at least Apple is doing something to get more games over. If the relatively capable hardware is there in more Mac users hands and if the Metal API is capable enough I definitely think there could be more developing games for MacOS. Looking at the price rise of hardware on the PC/Windows side it seems the GPU power on the Mac side of things have more relative value than historically.

It seems Apple is at least trying to get more games over. For example:

Getting started with Metal-cpp - Metal - Apple Developer

Metal-cpp is a low-overhead C++ interface for Metal that helps developers add Metal functionality to graphics apps, games, and game engines that are written in C++.

developer.apple.com

I know they don't care, but I think they should. If the power were to cost more money (has has been seen in Europe) this could matter a great deal.

I enjoy playing some of the Apple Arcade games in the TV. For example Horizon Chase 2 (Unreal Engine) sure feels like a console game and Crossy Castle is great for multi player ”couch co-op”. Now, I have the Apple TV 4K connected to a 1080p TV and while Horizon Chase 2 does have some performance issues at times (the developer says they are trying to optimize further) I still think it's impressive what kind of graphics and frame rates you can get out of such a little box. If Apple were to up the ante just a bit on the hardware side I think we could see more ”console class” games for Apple TV. Not having to be the real high end ones.

But maybe you're right and the market is already using Playstation, Xbox Switch and Windows/PC and that's it.
I just think playing on a computer is nice and I would like to do that in my OS of choice which is MacOS – maybe it's all just wishful thinking.

Sorry for wall of text...

I get your point about efficiency. But the thing is efficiency is appreciated when performance is not impacted. Just look how well the M1 / M2 SoC work in some tasks. And customers are happy because they have a fast SoC that's efficient. But in the GPU market, Apple has nothing to compete with the latest from AMD and Nvidia. Apple may have an efficient GPU, but its behind the competition. Gamers have no issue sacrificing efficiency for performance. Similar to a customer looking for a high-performance car doesn't care for miles per gallon.

Apple have a better SoC compared to the Nintendo Switch. But they have no games. People are looking forward two play Nintendo 1st party games, while Apple still focused in mobile games. And from what I have seen, very few people are looking forward to play a mobile game in a large screen with an ATV.

 

[star-affinity]

the graphs unfortunately (top 1 with link to Steam HW) is not comparable due to shaders and such.

I guess you're right.
Another thing that seem to make it more difficult to directly compare is that Apple GPUs use ”tile-based deferred rendering”.

Tailor Your Apps for Apple GPUs and Tile-Based Deferred Rendering | Apple Developer Documentation

Learn about characteristic Apple GPU features, including imageblocks, tile shaders, and raster order groups.

developer.apple.com

Compared to what I understand is ”immediate mode rendering” on Nvidia and AMD GPUs.

But here it seems Nvidia talks about ”tile-based”. 🤷‍♂️

On NVIDIA's Tile-Based Rendering

Looking back on NVIDIA's GDC presentation, perhaps one of the most interesting aspects approached was the implementation of tile-based rendering on NVIDIA's post-Maxwell architectures. This has been an adaptation of typically mobile approaches to graphics rendering which keeps their specific...

www.techpowerup.com

Anyway. I don't have enough insight into this stuff at the moment so I'll be quiet.

I get your point about efficiency. But the thing is efficiency is appreciated when performance is not impacted. Just look how well the M1 / M2 SoC work in some tasks. And customers are happy because they have a fast SoC that's efficient. But in the GPU market, Apple has nothing to compete with the latest from AMD and Nvidia. Apple may have an efficient GPU, but its behind the competition. Gamers have no issue sacrificing efficiency for performance. Similar to a customer looking for a high-performance car doesn't care for miles per gallon.

Apple have a better SoC compared to the Nintendo Switch. But they have no games. People are looking forward two play Nintendo 1st party games, while Apple still focused in mobile games. And from what I have seen, very few people are looking forward to play a mobile game in a large screen with an ATV.

I guess I'm thinking/hoping Apple could release something that is closer to the heavy graphics cards from AMD and Nvidia (and I guess now also Intel) while also having better power efficiency and being easier to cool and thus costing less in form of electricity used.

But if the only GPU close to these offerings on the Apple side of things will be in a Mac Pro I can understand the market will be too small.

Speaking of the Switch – excluding the Nintendo 1st party gamed – I do find it a bit interesting that Apple has the hardware (and controller compatibility) to beat it, but still we don't have many of the ”console level” games on Apple's platforms. Overwatch 2 anyone (oh, Microsoft bought Activision Blizzard ). Wreckfest? It Takes Two?

I don't know. But we do have Huntdown (also for tvOS) which makes me happy.

 

[Phoenux.Ua]

I need eArc hdmi IN and eArc hdmi OUT for connect dolby atmos soundbar in Apple Tv 4k.

 

[Sooby]

I’d like to see a faster processor than the A12. It’s still a bit slow at times. I’d also like to see the full suit of hdmi 2.1 features including support for 4k 120fps. If 4k 120fps ever gets supported one day on Youtube then it would be nice to watch some videos at that quality - especially footage of video games running at 4k 120fps.

 

[Fugabutacus]

Yeah the Apple TV needs to be like half the price, yesterday.

Or if they insist on keeping that barrier to entry, they need an add-on stick that's affordable.

I don't understand their home strategy at all. The entire point of HomeKit is that if you want to you can kit out your entire home with smart devices, which means buying several of each kind, and yet Apple prices their home devices the same way they price everything—as a one-off purchase.

I think it was a very good idea to sell the AirTag both individually and as a 4-pack; they clearly recognized that people might want multiples and used it to upsell while also giving the customer a decent deal. This should also be happening on their home devices.

I love my Apple TV. And I would love, love, love to have the same experience consistently across every TV in my house. But aside from our main TV, we have four others. Am I going to spend over £500 just to complete the setup when 80% of viewing happens on one TV? Absolutely not.

But if they sold a cheaper version that was more of an "extender" that uses a full Apple TV as a hub and brings the UI to other TVs, I would probably blow £150 on a 3- or 4-pack.

Likewise, I love the HomePod mini, but it really feels like a device that's designed for you to have one in every room. In which case, why is there no bulk pricing on it!? They even work as a stereo pair, yet there's not a penny knocked off if you buy two?

In the UK, the HomePod is £89. Give me a pack of two for £160-£170, or a pack of four for £300.

Maybe the HomePod mini has a small margin (I think the original HomePod did?) but Apple needs to accept that. They've done amazing at pushing their business towards software and subscriptions and it's making them a ton of money, but they've yet to accept that moving in that direction means lowering their hardware prices.

Realistically anyone who puts a HomePod and an Apple TV in every room in their house is not leaving the Apple ecosystem. They're probably the 20% of customers that spends 80% of the money, to use that example. Apple would be wise to make it as easy as possible for casual customers to climb down that funnel and get thoroughly submerged in their ecosystem.

 

[triharderken]

That sounds good for people who use it for gaming but I'm not sure it would be possible at the suggested lower price point.

I think it would definitely be possible, but not at Apple’s margins.

 

[glennsan]

Do they? These things are built into most TVs anyways.

If you are planning to keep your tv a long time there is a chance that the manufacturer will stop updating the apps and render the SMART features of the tv useless. It has happened to me twice so far and I don't buy cheap tvs. The apple tv is much faster in my option then the tv in regards to opening up apps and switching also.

Glenn

 

[AdamNC]

Would you buy an all in one home device that would basically be a 60 inch TV, iMac, and Apple TV with a M2 chip, 24gigs ram and 1T for about 2800-3000 USD? My wife asked why don't they put all of them in one unit. Got me thinking. Just wondering. I would be tempted.

 

[star-affinity]

Would you buy an all in one home device that would basically be a 60 inch TV, iMac, and Apple TV with a M2 chip, 24gigs ram and 1T for about 2800-3000 USD? My wife asked why don't they put all of them in one unit. Got me thinking. Just wondering. I would be tempted.

In a way it sounds cool, but the problem with tying a display to computer hardware is in my opinion that the display mostly by quite far outlives the rest of the hardware that was hot at the time of release. This is why I never really gotten to go for an iMac for personal use, for example.

For mobile devices this is different since the display naturally has to be attached to the rest of the hardware.

But maybe it would work well if you could hand it in and get the old unit repurposed or recycled and get some cash back for a newer model when that time comes.

 

[God of Biscuits]

HDMI 2.1 adaptive sync - PLEASE!

HDMI adaptive sync should eliminate the switching time when changing frame rates if the TV supports it. That would be a clear improvement.

almost sure not to happen. There are no SoCs that support HDMI 2.1, not even the M2, so it’s difficult to imagine Apple putting in custom work for Apple TV, something they clearly don’t prioritize.

 

[God of Biscuits]

Would you buy an all in one home device that would basically be a 60 inch TV, iMac, and Apple TV with a M2 chip, 24gigs ram and 1T for about 2800-3000 USD? My wife asked why don't they put all of them in one unit. Got me thinking. Just wondering. I would be tempted.

display tech changes so fast, tv margins are extremely thin, and people hold on to TVs for s long time. And with HDMI, eARC and HDMI-CEC for control, an external box is nearly to completely the identical experience to built-in tech.