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How about make one with M1 ultra and compete with xbox.
You do make one wonder if Apple made their own console like device that also served as an Apple TV 4K/8K and what SoC they might use? Also consider using iOS or iPadOS rather than the more limited tvOS so you could increase exposure to numerous game apps.
 
my 2 cents... combine it with HomePod (and add the option to add more HomePods to enrich the sound experience) + FaceTime camera in a sound bar form factor + enhanced home app and call it Home.
And make it a WiFi range extender !
 
I only have two TVs in my house - one has the 2017 version and it has worked flawlessly.

The other TV is an 2018 LG but I find it loads slow. I’m going to wait it out and see if we get a new Apple TV, if not I’ll scoop a 2021 model.
 
my 2 cents... combine it with HomePod (and add the option to add more HomePods to enrich the sound experience) + FaceTime camera in a sound bar form factor + enhanced home app and call it Home.
I dream of a high end Apple TV that has build in HomePod and a built in ultra short throw making it an actual TV
 
look they lower the price of the HomePod and it became a best seller. Just lower the price.
 
The gain is i don’t have to hit another button, the gain is i could be in another room than the game console, but have a TV in this room and want to play a game while someone in the room with the game console watches a DVD movie out of “my own personal library”, while someone else can utilize another Apple TV unit to send music into the garage while i work on my 60’s muscle car…. Oh. And just so I am clear… listening to music i paid for a long time ago and is in “my own personal library”… thats what a home entertainment controller and media center is…

And i will also reiterate… like you, i have 100’s if not thousands of CD’s digitized… both music and DVD video’s… old and current alike…. And guess what, if i don’t have it i could stream it/rent it from Apple TV… there is one problem… Apple TV lacks the tools it once had integrated with to manage those digital assets… it used to have them, and they were actually integrated with one and other and Apple TV… heck Apple TV used to use Front Row software to navigate the libraries, select what people wanted to do, etc…

Its not a niche… its Apple not wanting people to own their own digital assets or have control of them… and that is a perception many have besides me. They are now doing it with their hardware… soldering what typically used to be user replaceable parts to the logic boards now… including the internal storage… You may find it acceptable and think it is a niche, but its not… it actually is the way it started out and Apple pushed people to move and go in tha t direction, which also allowed the artists to gain financially and keep people from pirating their intellectual property… who wouldn’t pay $.99 for a guaranteed quality recording of a song?… So why the change of course for Apple? Thats not what Steve Jobs envisioned, but it make Apple a boatload of money and basically controls peoples digital assets… thats why so many people have migrated to the Plex multimedia server, runing it on a plethora of different hardware, such as NAS devices, Windows based PC’s, and Linux based boxes, and yes, even older Mac’s are being utilized to run a Plex server for serving up multimedia… Apple TV could, and i emphasize “could” be so much more and a much more elegant way of doing it that integrates smart home controls and monitoring, such as access to surveillance camera’s and other security devices… but its not.

And while you are correct, that Apple TV currently gives people access to music, tv, movies, photos, & games, it is primarily through Apples subscription services… all the while rebuffing and providing easy access to what they encouraged people to do not so long ago… (when Steve Jobs was still alive).

To each their own I say… with their opinions, feelings, likes and dislikes, and perceptions of things… and in this case for me, its Apple has once again given the middle finger to its consumers and core supporters… just like they are doing with their hardware… At the end of the day, I and others will find a way to do what we always wanted to do, we just won’t use Apple products to do it… such as Plex

But you wouldn't save 1 button press if your PS5 was accessed through your ATV. YOu still have to hit something to access your PS5. It doesn't read your mind. :). You still have to pick up your PS5 controller. So no button presses are saved. (I get the feeling you don't realize today's consoles switch inputs, turn on the tv and the console with one button press. :) )


As I said I already, I understood your post was really a lengthy way of saying you want to access your digital files from your ATV (and now also want your ATV to provide other devices access to your digital files.)

Unfortunately I don't think it is going to happen for reasons stated: Streaming has made the personal media collections largely a thing of the past for the masses for better and worse. Apple is happy to let others service that niche.

Tv, movies and music aren't primarily Apple services. I don't think I watch any tv and movies through Apple services except the 1 or 2 shows I have watched on AppleTV+. I have Apple Music but I could just as easily have Spotify or Amazon Music for example.

But that gets away from what I actually said which was the AppleTV of today gives access to more tv, movies and music than ever. I use ATV way more today for movies and tv and music because of that than I did 12 years ago when I was wondering why I actually bought the thing.
 
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How is it showing it’s age?
When I used my friend's one, although playback is fine, the UI feels really slow and stuttery compared to my A12-powered one. To some extent this is OS overload (trying to do too much with too little RAM), to some extent it's just rising expectations; you don't appreciate how much smoother the A10X and then the A12 are compared to the predecessor until you have used them for a while.

The big problem Apple has now with performance is crappy apps that
- deliberately relaunch after they have been in the background for a while (Prime is the worst "big-name" offender here)
- put deliberate delay loops in their launch. Seriously? WTF?? You might find this hard to believe but the Hoopla app does this and does it BAD. You think fighting stupidity is hard? Try fighting malice.
- are just terminally incompetent at writing code and do everything Apple told them not to do, like making synchronous network calls on the main thread during launch.

Apple can't make apps like this faster, no matter WHAT they do. They could try Google-style naming and shaming (eg refuse to promote an app on the app store if it doesn't follow a list of best practices, including eg launching within 1 second, or whatever) but that doesn't seem to be Apple's (or at least Tim Cook's) way.
 
They desperately need a cheaper Apple TV. Just for Apple TV+ and basic Airplay features. Even the current HD version is way too expensive.

I envision this release to be a streaming stick. Lower cost, but also in some ways spec’d better than than the current Apple TV 4K. It will be priced to move with the intention of building TV+ subscriptions. They will secure NFL Sunday Ticket, and build live TV service to become a competitor to YouTube TV. The Apple Stick will be the easiest way into the ecosystem.
 
anecdotal, but local BB is out of ATVs and so is local Target. Local Walmarts have them in stock still. First sign (or one sign) of a new incoming ATV model would be stores start running out of the old models. I checked some other BB stores and there is low stock in a lot of stores. I checked a bunch of Targets and either no stock or low stock with 1-3 available. Not sure if this is typical or not.
 
I envision this release to be a streaming stick. Lower cost, but also in some ways spec’d better than than the current Apple TV 4K. It will be priced to move with the intention of building TV+ subscriptions. They will secure NFL Sunday Ticket, and build live TV service to become a competitor to YouTube TV. The Apple Stick will be the easiest way into the ecosystem.
I don’t think Apple will ever use a stick design. The whole point of having a Apple TV plus app on various TV sets was to allow users to stream TV shows and movies from ‌Apple TV+‌, access à-la-carte ‌Apple TV‌ Channels and their iTunes libraries, as well as buy or rent more than 100,000 shows and movies from the iTunes Store. A stick is ultra low power processor, powered by USB usually, that requires its own OS and Wi-Fi connectivity. That would be useless for most people compared to the app on 4K TVs and the more capable Apple TV 4K digital streamer.

See
 
When I used my friend's one, although playback is fine, the UI feels really slow and stuttery compared to my A12-powered one. To some extent this is OS overload (trying to do too much with too little RAM), to some extent it's just rising expectations; you don't appreciate how much smoother the A10X and then the A12 are compared to the predecessor until you have used them for a while.

The big problem Apple has now with performance is crappy apps that
- deliberately relaunch after they have been in the background for a while (Prime is the worst "big-name" offender here)
- put deliberate delay loops in their launch. Seriously? WTF?? You might find this hard to believe but the Hoopla app does this and does it BAD. You think fighting stupidity is hard? Try fighting malice.
- are just terminally incompetent at writing code and do everything Apple told them not to do, like making synchronous network calls on the main thread during launch.

Apple can't make apps like this faster, no matter WHAT they do. They could try Google-style naming and shaming (eg refuse to promote an app on the app store if it doesn't follow a list of best practices, including eg launching within 1 second, or whatever) but that doesn't seem to be Apple's (or at least Tim Cook's) way.

Yeah 3rd party apps are one of the bigger issues on the ATV. Some apps are just crap. Netflix is the best one off the top of my head. Most of the others are bad. Some of it is related to the trackpad on the old remote which 3rd parties never really developed their app for. They just sort of ported what they had to the trackpad.
 
I don’t think Apple will ever use a stick design. The whole point of having a Apple TV plus app on various TV sets was to allow users to stream TV shows and movies from ‌Apple TV+‌, access à-la-carte ‌Apple TV‌ Channels and their iTunes libraries, as well as buy or rent more than 100,000 shows and movies from the iTunes Store. A stick is ultra low power processor, powered by USB usually, that requires its own OS and Wi-Fi connectivity. That would be useless for most people compared to the app on 4K TVs and the more capable Apple TV 4K digital streamer.

See
i assume if they did a stick it would have the same OS. No ethernet. Just wifi. USBC adapter sold separate.
 
Since the Apple TV app is on both Fire and Roku sticks why would Apple market that? No profit to speak of.
To have a lower cost model that can better compete with the low end competition. They wouldn't price it at $30 or $40. $80 minimum I would think. Maybe $99.

Another way to look at it is the ATV HD model is a ripoff at $150. IT's got an 8 yr old chip in it. IT's kind of a slow experience. ONly does 1080p on top of it. But is $150 and only $30 lower than the 4k model. That model needs to be lower priced. Should be lower priced. IT can't be selling that well except to the clueless. And the performance compared to $30-$40 sticks from Roku or Amazon or Google has to be terrible I would think. I have that ATV model from about 8 years ago (same A8 chip) on a plasma tv in my house and it's kind of slow. IT's not even a great 1080p experience.

That's where a stick would come in. Or a dongle. Or whatever they can think of. And they would certainly take out certain features compared to the 4k model to get the cost down and so it doesn't cannibalize the higher cost model.
 
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The comments here - that Apple needs to work out what the purpose of the ATV is - are on point.

In my view it is important to consider that people either have:
1. an older TV, that has has limited "smart" functions or no in-built streaming apps; or
2. a newer 4K TV, that will therefore already have modern in-built streaming apps.

Category 1
A TV in category 1 is going to be maximum 1080p, and is not going to have great picture quality. It is therefore overkill to have a highly specced ATV for category 1, because the TV will not be capable of benefiting. You would think the existing ATV HD would satisfy this category, and should have low specs and low price point.

Category 2
A TV in category 2 already has decent streaming capabilities. So an ATV in this category is redundant UNLESS it can offer something the TV cannot already do. An ATV in this category therefore needs to have high specs. The current ATV 4K functionality is currently lacking in specifications and therefore does not adequately service this category 2. I fall in this category, and I cannot explain to anyone what benefit I get from the ATV that I don't already have (and why I shouldn't sell it / throw it in the bin).

New features
To make the ATV 4K useful to people in category 2, the ATV 4K should offer at a minimum:

(A) 24-bit/192kHz audio
  • The ATV audio output is downsampled to a maximum sampling rate of only 48kHz! This means you CANNOT output 24-bit/192kHz audio, even if you pay for Apple Music Lossless or Tidal HiFi Plus etc (and even though HDMI 1.4 and earlier can support 8 channels of 24-bit/192kHz audio).
  • You can already output audio at 48kHz (if not higher) from your TV, or at 44.1kHz via Airplay 2, so the ATV currently provides no additional benefit for high-res audio.
(B) Missing key audio formats
  • The ATV does not support DTS or its higher quality siblings eg DTS-HD Master Audio. DTS is a just as common as, if not more common than, Dolby for movie audio tracks.
  • The ATV does not support lossless Dolby audio (eg Dolby TrueHD) for movie audio tracks.
(C) 4K120Hz
  • Yes - content is available in 4K120. Whilst there is only a handful of movies in this format, people do have personal content that they have filmed in 4K120.
  • As noted in other comments, 4K120 integrates perfectly with content in 24fps, 30fps, and 60fps.
(D) LAST BUT NOT LEAST THE ATV DOES NOT ACTUALLY WORK PROPERLY!!!
  • The ATV UI is severely flawed. If you set the ATV video output to 4K HDR or 4K DV, the ATV UI is not actually designed in that format, and nor are most of the applications (eg Apple Movies, Netflix, Apple Music, Tidal). So the ATV actually modifies its own UI to convert it from SDR, into HDR or DV. Unfortunately, THIS DOES NOT WORK properly. Using those settings, the screen will go black and audio will stop, for a few seconds, repeatedly, while trying to watch a movie or tv show, or listen to music. This essentially makes the ATV UNUSABLE! Note this is while using top-of-line Sony OLED A90J and Marantz AV receiver.
  • The ONLY workaround is to set the ATV video output to 4K SDR, and to "Match Dynamic Range - On" and "Match Frame Rate - On". This fixes the audio and video playback, but you lose the benefit of the ATV UI and screensavers appearing in HDR. This issue has existed for at least 3 years (across both the 1st and 2nd gen 4k ATVs), yet Apple has done absolutely nothing to rectify!

Gaming
Finally, gaming on TV is a saturated market. Anyone even remotely interested in gaming already has the latest Sony Playstation 5, X Box Series X and/or Nintendo Switch - or, they will have a serious gaming PC. Apple should either focus on providing a viable alternative to these options (as a separate device, rather than a gaming "after-thought" that is tacked on to the Apple TV), or not bother at all.
 
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Missing key audio formats
  • The ATV does not support DTS or its higher quality siblings eg DTS-HD Master Audio. DTS is a just as common as, if not more common than, Dolby for movie audio tracks.
  • The ATV does not support lossless Dolby audio (eg Dolby TrueHD) for movie audio tracks.
Why would you expect streaming to support lossless multichannel audio formats. What streaming sVoD provides that compared to physical media? This not a ATV missing audio formats.
 
But you wouldn't save 1 button press if your PS5 was accessed through your ATV. YOu still have to hit something to access your PS5. It doesn't read your mind. :). You still have to pick up your PS5 controller. So no button presses are saved. (I get the feeling you don't realize today's consoles switch inputs, turn on the tv and the console with one button press. :) )


As I said I already, I understood your post was really a lengthy way of saying you want to access your digital files from your ATV (and now also want your ATV to provide other devices access to your digital files.)

Unfortunately I don't think it is going to happen for reasons stated: Streaming has made the personal media collections largely a thing of the past for the masses for better and worse. Apple is happy to let others service that niche.

Tv, movies and music aren't primarily Apple services. I don't think I watch any tv and movies through Apple services except the 1 or 2 shows I have watched on AppleTV+. I have Apple Music but I could just as easily have Spotify or Amazon Music for example.

But that gets away from what I actually said which was the AppleTV of today gives access to more tv, movies and music than ever. I use ATV way more today for movies and tv and music because of that than I did 12 years ago when I was wondering why I actually bought the thing.
Not entirely accurate, but close enough… i will give you that i want ATV to access and be able to manage and organize my digital media files. Which happens to be the original design and purpose of the iTV (Apple TV’s intended name). I will also give you that Apple TV and other similar streaming services have made “personal media collections largely a thing of the past for the masses for better and worse.”, but not for the reasons you seem to imply or think. Apple and the other streaming services want to discourage personal ownership of media files, their inherited greed is not consumer or user friendly, and what they are really trying to do is find a way to get the consumer to ”pay for use” through subscription services and not personally own anything. Apple has already made its intentions known that it plans to have people lease their iPhones on a renewable subscription service… so even their hardware is becoming subject to this type of anti-consumer model. They are already doing it vigorously with discouraging the “self repair and upgrade“ abilities on their hardware and its going to come back to bite them. Even where the courts are starting to rule against that knd of anti-consumer behavior, they are trying to get out front of it by creating and having in place these repair kits for their iDevices… if you want to have a good laugh, learn about what those are and how they are designed to discourage the consumer from replacing their own cracked glass screens or batteries… Do you think soldering the upgradeable computer components & parts on the new M1 line of Macs are a performance enhancing feature? Thats Apple‘s propaganda, but is BS. Its because they want to continue to gouge people for upgrades at point of purchase, and prevent easy extension of product life.

And its interesting that you disclose that you first started using Apple TV 12 years ago… did you happen to notice the sudden change from the “Front Row” interface and navigation, along with its integration to iTunes, iDVD, iPhoto, etc… and it being (as i said all along) a home theater media and related component managing device?
See:> https://www.macworld.com/article/22...t-row-the-apple-tv-precursor-on-your-mac.html <
AND
See:> https://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/the_future_of_apple_tv_and_front_row <

Yes, back then it was exactly what i have been saying they need to get back to, to revitalize its image and perceived purpose in the Apple ecosystem… its either that, or people will continue to reject it in this already saturated market of greedy subscription type entertainment media services. Apple was always the innovator - the original Apple TV was innovative, scalable, and creative… Even if Steve Jobs thought of it as Apple’s hobby project. Todays Apple TV is just like, as you said it,…. “I could just as easily have Spotify or Amazon Music for example.

They all do the same thing and are fighting to have control of what media content they can control and monetize. i.e. Sports; - such as the NFL, NHL, NBA, etc… Music, i.e. such as the libraries of publishing labels; etc… Gaming, and so on…. None of which the end consumer will ever own the rights to… If they have their way.

Apple - Give us back our iTunes & Front Row! Give us back our right and ability to manage and own our digital assets and upgrade and repair them as we see fit!.
 
Why would you expect streaming to support lossless multichannel audio formats. What streaming sVoD provides that compared to physical media? This not a ATV missing audio formats.
You can import your own content (ie from a BR disc with Dolby TrueHD audio track, via computer) into the Apple TV app.
 
Does anybody find the latest 4K Apple TV slow?

Mine seems lightening fast and having purchased the latest 4K Firestick recently, the ATV feels about 500x faster.

For £30 the Firestick 4K is a no brainer for a TV used every now and then but the ATV in the lounge is night and day in terms of speed differences.

The first two benefits are not actually a benefit for me and probably most others, I just don't see how people are finding the latest one sluggish. I suspect I am the only person in the world that actually likes the remote without the physical buttons, i.e. the one you have to move your finger around to scroll :)
 
Not entirely accurate, but close enough… i will give you that i want ATV to access and be able to manage and organize my digital media files. Which happens to be the original design and purpose of the iTV (Apple TV’s intended name). I will also give you that Apple TV and other similar streaming services have made “personal media collections largely a thing of the past for the masses for better and worse.”, but not for the reasons you seem to imply or think. Apple and the other streaming services want to discourage personal ownership of media files, their inherited greed is not consumer or user friendly, and what they are really trying to do is find a way to get the consumer to ”pay for use” through subscription services and not personally own anything. Apple has already made its intentions known that it plans to have people lease their iPhones on a renewable subscription service… so even their hardware is becoming subject to this type of anti-consumer model. They are already doing it vigorously with discouraging the “self repair and upgrade“ abilities on their hardware and its going to come back to bite them. Even where the courts are starting to rule against that knd of anti-consumer behavior, they are trying to get out front of it by creating and having in place these repair kits for their iDevices… if you want to have a good laugh, learn about what those are and how they are designed to discourage the consumer from replacing their own cracked glass screens or batteries… Do you think soldering the upgradeable computer components & parts on the new M1 line of Macs are a performance enhancing feature? Thats Apple‘s propaganda, but is BS. Its because they want to continue to gouge people for upgrades at point of purchase, and prevent easy extension of product life.

And its interesting that you disclose that you first started using Apple TV 12 years ago… did you happen to notice the sudden change from the “Front Row” interface and navigation, along with its integration to iTunes, iDVD, iPhoto, etc… and it being (as i said all along) a home theater media and related component managing device?
See:> https://www.macworld.com/article/22...t-row-the-apple-tv-precursor-on-your-mac.html <
AND
See:> https://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/the_future_of_apple_tv_and_front_row <

Yes, back then it was exactly what i have been saying they need to get back to, to revitalize its image and perceived purpose in the Apple ecosystem… its either that, or people will continue to reject it in this already saturated market of greedy subscription type entertainment media services. Apple was always the innovator - the original Apple TV was innovative, scalable, and creative… Even if Steve Jobs thought of it as Apple’s hobby project. Todays Apple TV is just like, as you said it,…. “I could just as easily have Spotify or Amazon Music for example.

They all do the same thing and are fighting to have control of what media content they can control and monetize. i.e. Sports; - such as the NFL, NHL, NBA, etc… Music, i.e. such as the libraries of publishing labels; etc… Gaming, and so on…. None of which the end consumer will ever own the rights to… If they have their way.

Apple - Give us back our iTunes & Front Row! Give us back our right and ability to manage and own our digital assets and upgrade and repair them as we see fit!.

Close enough doesn't fly. There is no reason to integrate a console to the ATV to save button presses if it doesn't actually save button presses. :)

Apple still sells music by album or song last I checked. And they sell movies and rent videos. And you own the purchases for all intensive purposes. AFaik that stuff is supported well on the ATV.

But the reality is the market has chosen to move to streaming services. Apple isn't even the biggest music service. And tv/movies are now dominated by streaming services other than Apple. Apple is actually a follower in streaming video/music services. Apple was fine with sticking to iTunes. But the market chose and it didn't choose to stick with iTunes and in effect owning your music albeit via Apple.

If these services were so bad then you would think customers wouldn't be flocking to them. Maybe just maybe customers like these services. :)

Spotfiy even has a free tier. So you don't even have to pay anything to listen to music you like.

There's actually a lot of free video services too. And some with pretty good content sometimes. LIke, Amazon's FreeVee has the movie "1917." For free!

Anyway good luck on your Don Quixotic quest to bring back Front Row circa 2010.
 
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