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Although this story is very US centric meanwhile in rest of the world another manufacturer dominated sales, Nokia.

Nokia's downfall started with the carriers who were pushing for its demise. Managers were getting memos to find a replacement for Nokia asap.

Nokia got so big that its started pushing its own OVI services that took carriers money from selling you ringtones, pictures and what now.

That is why Nokia failed. It was sabotaged by leading worldwide carriers.

Even BlackBerry and resurrected Palm had more harm done to them in their downfall by carriers than by Apple. Blackberry is not in US because of the burnt bridges with carriers. That's why we need not 4 but 14 nationwide carriers while Verizon needs to disappear from the face of the earth together with all of its executives.

This makes no sense.

And since you have provided no links to support your theory it amounts to hyperbole.

On the one hand you say Nokia was killed by worldwide carriers which means its demise is not US centric, and would allude to a worldwide cabal formed for the sole purpose of ending Nokia. That would be a lot of carriers, no? Was there some secret Bilderberg type meeting held in Geneva?

Then you go on to say Blackberry is not in the US because of burnt bridges by carriers. What about the rest of the world Blackberry had a presence? What conspiracy theory do you have for the declining sales in other countries?

Suggestion: Remove tinfoil.
 
iPhone was not the first...

In many ways, the only difference between the iPhone and the existing Palm Treo series of phones is that the iPhone had:
  • a much larger finger-based touch screen
  • "zoom" capability
  • a walled garden app store
The Treo 180, 270, 650, and 680 all had:
  • stylus based touch screen
  • web browser (maybe only later models, I'm not sure)
  • no crapware if purchased directly from Palm
  • access to hundreds of apps from dozens of developers
 
Blackberry was awesome when people still had monochrome Nokia CELLphones. The OS was bad, I restart 4-5 a day, the battery went crazy within a year, and it was just as expensive as the iphone. Really?

The only good thing it had was the BBM which was the best messenger app on smartphones and I still feel its better than Whatsapp and the others
 
Switcher here, love Blackberry

Blackberry has not dealt their cards right, with all the new exploding some years ago. But now they finally are learning the new deck. Apple on the other hand has it´s best player gone, ongoing security problems, and a phone that is becoming more like a portable entertainment machine than a device for work.

So, after much thinking I did the switch to a Blackberry Passport. And it is actually a great device! I trust in their security, and I can work on text and images wherever I am. A dream to write on, with the physical keyboard that make use of the sensory feeback my fingers are used to give me. I write a zillion times faster and more acurate on the phone now. The screen made me stop needing my Kindle Paperwhite and I did sold my iPad mini a short while after. I love to read both web and e-books on my Passport. Best browser ever!

And their message hub beats all other clients. It´s so easy to sort emails when it remembers what sender I usually want to put in what folder. And the undo button when deleting emails has saved me a lot of times.

Calling... very good sound quality, and a notepad thats there for just that call, if I need it. Notes saved with the call, why did I not use that before?

The camera is outstanding and on pair with the iPhone 6 Plus (yes, a lot of software bugs was there at first. Now sorted by Blackberry).

A separate memory card gives me space, without having to buy a whole new device.

And I could probably go on...
 
Apple and Google did not destroy Nokia. Nokia commited suicide.

And BlackBerry has not been destroyed. They are recovering from their slow response.
 
Blackberry has not dealt their cards right, with all the new exploding some years ago. But now they finally are learning the new deck. Apple on the other hand has it´s best player gone, ongoing security problems, and a phone that is becoming more like a portable entertainment machine than a device for work.

So, after much thinking I did the switch to a Blackberry Passport. And it is actually a great device! I trust in their security, and I can work on text and images wherever I am. A dream to write on, with the physical keyboard that make use of the sensory feeback my fingers are used to give me. I write a zillion times faster and more acurate on the phone now. The screen made me stop needing my Kindle Paperwhite and I did sold my iPad mini a short while after. I love to read both web and e-books on my Passport. Best browser ever!

And their message hub beats all other clients. It´s so easy to sort emails when it remembers what sender I usually want to put in what folder. And the undo button when deleting emails has saved me a lot of times.

Calling... very good sound quality, and a notepad thats there for just that call, if I need it. Notes saved with the call, why did I not use that before?

The camera is outstanding and on pair with the iPhone 6 Plus (yes, a lot of software bugs was there at first. Now sorted by Blackberry).

A separate memory card gives me space, without having to buy a whole new device.

And I could probably go on...

I like BB. They were really workhorses and I had my Storm 2 for almost 4 years. So I like BB, I wish they had the apps.

However, this:

"Apple on the other hand has it´s best player gone, ongoing security problems, and a phone that is becoming more like a portable entertainment machine than a device for work"

I don't agree with. The iphone 6 sales, shows apple can succeed with Tim Cook. In addition, I am not sure what security problems the iphone has and why the device is not suitable for a work device. It took me a long time to warm up to the iphone, and there are things that annoy me about the interface (although that is true for all software products) but is it a work-horse as was my old BB. I just miss the replaceable battery.

As long as you are okay with apples walled garden, you will like the iphone.
 
iPhone was not the first...

Nope.

That would be this...
xsshot4f452cbc14b6b.jpg.pagespeed.ic.FbRaw-1lam.jpg


In regard to Apple, it just shows you don't have to be first to be successful.
 
In many ways, the only difference between the iPhone and the existing Palm Treo series of phones is that the iPhone had:
  • a much larger finger-based touch screen
  • "zoom" capability
  • a walled garden app store
The Treo 180, 270, 650, and 680 all had:
  • stylus based touch screen
  • web browser (maybe only later models, I'm not sure)
  • no crapware if purchased directly from Palm
  • access to hundreds of apps from dozens of developers

Treo had to dial out as if by modem each time you connected to the Internet. It was modal - either connected to the net or not. Web browser was not capable of displaying most webpages in a form anywhere near what they looked like on the desktop. I was a huge treo fan and a palmos developer, but I got my iPhone on the first day they were available and any similarities to the treo were purely skin deep.
 
One of RIM co-CEO Mike Lazaridis'...

You see right here is your first problem.

Anytime you have co-anything at the top of an organization, you have such massive egos that they will be completely blind to everything.

It is pretty much a guarantee that a company is going to be run into the ground.
 
Android changed because of the iPhone and evolved to the worlds most popular OS.

Blackberry didn't change. And the Microsoft CEO openly laughed at the iPhone.

Looks like Apple were innovative and Google were smart.

I agree with all but that part about Android changed because of the iPhone.
I think it's more the other way around. Android has always been more feature rich than IOS, and IOS has always been slow to catch up to or match Android with a few notable exceptions.

IOS only really became on par with feature set around IOS7. The driving factor was more due to the jail break community jailbreaking their iPhones for glaringly absent features in iPhones.

This is not to say IOS wasn't at times ahead on a feature or 2, but on a scale the features of Android always had more weight.

Now, Apple's implementation of missing features (despite years behind at times) was usually more elegant than Android, but behind nonetheless.

Today, both platforms are pretty well matched, but this is only truly in the past gen or two of OS releases.

*Apple has obviously been wildly successful despite being slow to add features, but they have always been innovative and that innovation usually made up for something missing. RIM screwed up in both the feature and hardware front, the innovation front, and usability front. MS at least has made strides, but I really think they are just way to late to the party. If Win10 doesn't catch on with their next round of phones, I doubt they will ever be relevant.
 
I agree with all but that part about Android changed because of the iPhone.
I think it's more the other way around. Android has always been more feature rich than IOS, and IOS has always been slow to catch up to or match Android with a few notable exceptions.

IOS only really became on par with feature set around IOS7. The driving factor was more due to the jail break community jailbreaking their iPhones for glaringly absent features in iPhones.

This is not to say IOS wasn't at times ahead on a feature or 2, but on a scale the features of Android always had more weight.

Now, Apple's implementation of missing features (despite years behind at times) was usually more elegant than Android, but behind nonetheless.

Today, both platforms are pretty well matched, but this is only truly in the past gen or two of OS releases.

*Apple has obviously been wildly successful despite being slow to add features, but they have always been innovative and that innovation usually made up for something missing. RIM screwed up in both the feature and hardware front, the innovation front, and usability front. MS at least has made strides, but I really think they are just way to late to the party. If Win10 doesn't catch on with their next round of phones, I doubt they will ever be relevant.

Utter baloney revisionism.
 
A few things are glossed over when reading this reports. First, Apple put a hugely more powerful CPU in its phone than anyone had done before. They completely gave up on the phone lasting through a busy day though. There was no way that phone was gong to make it through a 200 email day. But that didn't matter because those folks already had BBRYs that would do that.

Second it is really amazing what AT&T allowed Apple to do. BBRY wanted to access the web on its phones. It knew this was useful. But the carriers did not allow them to draw that kind of data. There was fear it would crash their system. And in fact AT&T really suffered with a crap system for years because of all the data that was being drawn by the iPhone users. But it was worth it for them.

For a long while many folks carried two phones. I still do. This is partly due to the fact that neither my iPhone 4 or my iPhone 5 would have made it through a mobile workday. So it was either find a wall/charging case or carry another phone. But I have to say that iPhone 6's battery life is great. And I'm guessing that once I get my Apple Watch that my phone's battery life is going to be even better.

On the other hand, I've had great success with my BBRY Q10. And I was even in Verizon on Friday looking at the BBRY Classic. It looked great by the way. iOS still doesn't have a file management system and so messing around with files is still difficult. In fact I think it might still be impossible to do some very simple things in the stock iOS. A few days ago a friend wanted to take a file from one email, then reply to another email and attach that file. He couldn't do it on iOS. In BB10 you just save the freaking file to a folder and then attach it from the folder. But I have no idea how you do that in iOS. Beside inserting a video or picture, I don't know if you can just insert a file. Of course I may not know this because I generally have my BBRY and the process is really simple when you have a file management system on the phone.
 
RIM executives did not understand the iPhone and were "incredulous" that people were purchasing it, realizing too late that form had become as important as function in the eyes of consumers.
This isn't right: the defeat of BlackBerry had nothing to do with 'form'. It's important to realize that the 2008 iPhone had more functionality than the BlackBerry. The BlackBerry was basically a mobile mail machine. In the corporate world, mail translates to Exchange support 99% of the time. In 2008, Apple introduced iOS 2.0 with Exchange-support. Functionality wise, this brought the iPhone up to par with BlackBerry phones. But the kicker is this: by introducing Exchange support, the iPhone became a better mail machine than BlackBerry.

What RIM executives realized too late, is that their product was inferior in every single way and that no phsyical keyboard could save it.
 
I loved my Blackberry, and had no intention of switching until I tried the iPhone and realized how easy typing on it was. Once I switched I never looked back.

I also don't get into the Android vs Apple debate. Samsung makes fine phones. For me I have never had a single problem with Apple, and so I have never had a reason to switch. I love their ecosystem and their ease of use.
 
This isn't right: the defeat of BlackBerry had nothing to do with 'form'. It's important to realize that the 2008 iPhone had more functionality than the BlackBerry. The BlackBerry was basically a mobile mail machine. In the corporate world, mail translates to Exchange support 99% of the time. In 2008, Apple introduced iOS 2.0 with Exchange-support. Functionality wise, this brought the iPhone up to par with BlackBerry phones. But the kicker is this: by introducing Exchange support, the iPhone became a better mail machine than BlackBerry.

What RIM executives realized too late, is that their product was inferior in every single way and that no phsyical keyboard could save it.

I don't think I totally agree. I don't believe that because the iPhone gained Exchange support, it became a better mail device than the BlackBerry early in it's life. Getting the function/feature/technology is just that, getting it but it's what you can do with it. It was only until iOS became very mature that it was considered an effective e-mail device. The BlackBerry was still the better e-mail device because the OS was built for specifically that - from the keyboard, to how messages was organized. If it there is one thing BlackBerry knew what to do, it's was to allow the user to effectively and efficiently handle any type of message. And I still think they do that today.
 
This makes no sense.

And since you have provided no links to support your theory it amounts to hyperbole.

On the one hand you say Nokia was killed by worldwide carriers which means its demise is not US centric, and would allude to a worldwide cabal formed for the sole purpose of ending Nokia. That would be a lot of carriers, no? Was there some secret Bilderberg type meeting held in Geneva?

Then you go on to say Blackberry is not in the US because of burnt bridges by carriers. What about the rest of the world Blackberry had a presence? What conspiracy theory do you have for the declining sales in other countries?

Suggestion: Remove tinfoil.

Of course it doesn't make sense to you when you do not work for a major worldwide carrier (Vodafone, EE, T-Mobile), you don't know none of the executives at it so yeah to you its all tin-foil instead of protecting the business and revenue. You know common sense stuff.

Downloadable content for purchase was a carriers game big time, Nokia found a way around it due to its ginormous customer base. They also were also very tough in negotiations with carriers and their demands, in other words they were pain in the ass to deal with so carriers were pushing sales people to push anything but Nokia when making a sale.

As far as the BlackBerry goes their relationship with Verizon deteriorated big time and with Verizon comes Vodafone. Its like dominos.
 
I don't think I totally agree. I don't believe that because the iPhone gained Exchange support, it became a better mail device than the BlackBerry early in it's life. Getting the function/feature/technology is just that, getting it but it's what you can do with it. It was only until iOS became very mature that it was considered an effective e-mail device. The BlackBerry was still the better e-mail device because the OS was built for specifically that - from the keyboard, to how messages was organized. If it there is one thing BlackBerry knew what to do, it's was to allow the user to effectively and efficiently handle any type of message. And I still think they do that today.
I don't precisley get your point.

You say that the iPhone became a better mail device quite early, later you say that it wasn't until iOS was very mature the iPhone was considered an effective e-mail device. That seems contradictory.

In my opinion, the Mail app was superior right from the start and it became useable for business when Exchange support was added.

Either way, it wasn't form that defeated BlackBerry, it was also very much functionality.
 
Nah, most of Blackberry's death should be blamed on terrible management that had everything going right for them but wouldn't evolve to meet their competitors until it was way too late. Now about six years too late Blackberry has one of the best mobile OS ever... and like >5% of the marketshare.

I used to go to Waterloo for business all the time, and before the iPhone it was all too apparent that RIM was going to fail, and fail spectacularly.

The first problem is that Waterloo is a small sleepy university town, with no real prominent industry. The last big 'tech' company out of there was Watcom who hit it big with a SQL server of all things, and was later bought out and destroyed for that alone (they did make a great C/C++ compiler too).

So being a small town, they never attracted any talent from the outside. Every time you would deal with RIM people they all came from the same schools, went to the same classes, taught by the same professors. They dressed the same, and acted the same. And they all praised the 'wisdom' of their two co-ceos. It was crazy how this monoculture would react to new things always putting them in the worst light, talking them down etc.

Apple had their ROKR, and everyone had a laugh. Why would you want a phone and mp3 player? Our phone does email with the smallest bandwidth. Everyone also did their best to shun WindowsCE as who wants an operating system with apps? And that their phone could load email from exchange through their own network faster than the MS phone could from their own internet connected server.

But time, they changed.

When the iPhone was announced, the damage control was laughable as they not only had a company line it was a toy and of no significance since it was going to 'drink' bandwidth while they gleefully sipped. And then it shipped, and I had one, unlocked it, and took it with me to Canada (it was a US only thing at the time) and when people saw it they wanted it right away, and thought that even at 2G speeds it was the coolest thing ever. Except when I went to Waterloo. I even met with phone hardware designers, and I showed it to them, saying if they don't copy this thing, they are doomed. Instead they went on how they were being forced to make something out of their field that the company didn't want to do, and that they knew the mobil market better than the consumers, and everyone would come back to them.

Their arrogance, and defying what the consumer wanted killed RIM. They only had a market at first, because they were first to market. Microsoft could have been in Apple's position but let's face it, CE was ugly as hell, restricted to Internet Explorer 4, felt like a windows device, and sat stagnated. As much as I hate windows 8 on the desk, on the phone it's quite nice, but too little too late.

Apple focused on something consumers wanted, without knowing they wanted it.

The smart thing google did, was to grab Android, and adapt it to something that was a 'good enough' metoo phone, but licensed it for free. Now if RIM had gone the Android route, with their messaging apps, and their precious keyboard maybe they would have had a chance. Instead, they had to re-invent the wheel, because monoculture dictated that they had to have their own OS, because running Linux was 'bad' as it wasn't from Waterloo so they had to buy QNX (also Canadian) and spend years trying to retool it for users and bring it to market.

Heck, even the BB tablet (I forget the name, I even have one) was a joke that it didn't have properly working apps at launch, and they charged so much for it. I bought one when the price crashed, but it barely made a useful 32gb music player for $99 CDN.

TL;DR you hit the nail there, bad management, from a small town, where everyone thinks the same, and acts the same. Nobody liked their crappy servers, and once there was a chance to defect, everyone did.
 
Although this story is very US centric meanwhile in rest of the world another manufacturer dominated sales, Nokia.

Nokia's downfall started with the carriers who were pushing for its demise. Managers were getting memos to find a replacement for Nokia asap.

Nokia got so big that its started pushing its own OVI services that took carriers money from selling you ringtones, pictures and what now.

That is why Nokia failed. It was sabotaged by leading worldwide carriers.


Even BlackBerry and resurrected Palm had more harm done to them in their downfall by carriers than by Apple. Blackberry is not in US because of the burnt bridges with carriers. That's why we need not 4 but 14 nationwide carriers while Verizon needs to disappear from the face of the earth together with all of its executives.

You are forgetting about China. Economies of scale have brought the price of smartphones down to insanely cheap levels. Even old people out here have smart phones. Truth be told, once even the elderly see how to share pictures of grandkids over QQ, the dumb phone is relegated to history. I see buckets of dumbphones for 99RMB or less, and nobody is touching them. But everywhere you go, you have the android phones for the masses, and iPhones for the 'classes'. When any new iPhone product is launched the ammount of parallel goods traders in Hong Kong is crazy. Once people have had a taste of the smartphone there is no going back.

Even my 'old man' of a FIL who was a diehard dumbphone guy, jumped at a chance for an iPhone, once he saw that he could take not only his old music with him, but get up to date new, weather, and of course QQ with friends.

step back from phones, and ask yourself why was facebook ever popular? why did instagram rise in popularity? Same with wechat, and QQ.

photos, it's all about photos.

And you can't share photos in a multiplatform kind of way on a dumbphone. Plus nobody wants to pay that stupid MMS charge. Carriers as always are far behind the times. Why do you think bandwidth quotas go down, and keep getting more expensive? It's their only revenue stream on phones now.
 
Arrogance. It's that simple.

It killed Nokia, and it killed BlackBerry. It nearly killed Microsoft (Before they managed to recover under S. Nadella).

And it'll be what kills Google as well.

Google is coming out with more new features faster than Apple, how does that work into your prediction Nostradamus?
 
"Once upon a time Apple released the iPhone and it took Blackberry 6 years to react to the new market expectations set by touch screen technology, by then, it was already all too late...the rest is history".



Really? Honey you don't need a book, you can fit that story in a postcard and mail it to Waterloo.
 
RIM... LOL. You had your day, I hope it was worth holding onto the memories and legacy crap. I'm not sure who is more technologically deaf to the mobile market - RIM or Microsoft...
 
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