New Book Explores How the iPhone Contributed to BlackBerry's Downfall

[I7guy]

Those old articles shows us that Apple agreed to join the PRISM program. And it´s not that strange that they are trying to deny it after it blew open.

Two step verification and other security features are nothing if Apples attitude is that it is ok to break users integrity.

I have also minimized my use of Googles services for the same reason I´m now minimizing my use of Apple products. They may be good at making great products, but if they sell users out, I have to show my concern in some way. I think more people should do that.

I do not believe they are part of PRISM or any government program at this point and have closed all back-doors. I do not believe, from what they have stated publicly, it's okay to break user security. Tim Cook has stated that humans are their customers, not their data.

 

[kdarling]

I do not believe they are part of PRISM or any government program at this point and have closed all back-doors.

There was no back door involved.

PRISM is basically just a standardized way of sending a secret court-approved request for various records, and probably a requirement to keep those records available for X amount of time.

Every company is still a part of PRISM, including Apple. Like other companies, they now report the number and basic type of requests they get.

I do not believe, from what they have stated publicly, it's okay to break user security. Tim Cook has stated that humans are their customers, not their data.

Well, except in the case of iAds, where Apple uses everything from our location to our iTunes credit data, to sell targeted ad space. Just like Google.

Plus all the aggregate purchase information that Apple Pay contracted banks are required to send back to Apple.

 

[I7guy]

There was no back door involved.

PRISM is basically just a standardized way of sending a secret court-approved request for various records, and probably a requirement to keep those records available for X amount of time.

Every company is still a part of PRISM, including Apple. Like other companies, they now report the number and basic type of requests they get.



Well, except in the case of iAds, where Apple uses everything from our location to our iTunes credit data, to sell targeted ad space. Just like Google.

Plus all the aggregate purchase information that Apple Pay contracted banks are required to send back to Apple.

Hmmm. Can't you tune Iads off; or reset the tracking identifier?

 

[n-evo]

I don't think anything can kill Google at this point.

People used to think Microsoft was unbeatable too.

 

[laurim]

A few things are glossed over when reading this reports. First, Apple put a hugely more powerful CPU in its phone than anyone had done before. They completely gave up on the phone lasting through a busy day though. There was no way that phone was gong to make it through a 200 email day. But that didn't matter because those folks already had BBRYs that would do that.

Second it is really amazing what AT&T allowed Apple to do. BBRY wanted to access the web on its phones. It knew this was useful. But the carriers did not allow them to draw that kind of data. There was fear it would crash their system. And in fact AT&T really suffered with a crap system for years because of all the data that was being drawn by the iPhone users. But it was worth it for them.

For a long while many folks carried two phones. I still do. This is partly due to the fact that neither my iPhone 4 or my iPhone 5 would have made it through a mobile workday. So it was either find a wall/charging case or carry another phone. But I have to say that iPhone 6's battery life is great. And I'm guessing that once I get my Apple Watch that my phone's battery life is going to be even better.

On the other hand, I've had great success with my BBRY Q10. And I was even in Verizon on Friday looking at the BBRY Classic. It looked great by the way. iOS still doesn't have a file management system and so messing around with files is still difficult. In fact I think it might still be impossible to do some very simple things in the stock iOS. A few days ago a friend wanted to take a file from one email, then reply to another email and attach that file. He couldn't do it on iOS. In BB10 you just save the freaking file to a folder and then attach it from the folder. But I have no idea how you do that in iOS. Beside inserting a video or picture, I don't know if you can just insert a file. Of course I may not know this because I generally have my BBRY and the process is really simple when you have a file management system on the phone.

Wouldn't it make way more sense to carry a small portable charging source vs having two phones with separate phone numbers and phone plans?

 

[gnasher729]

Good point 17guy. I prefer to meassure sucess not only in sales, but also in how the society developes because of new technology. And the iPhone has made room for a lot of time waste apps, and the Blackberry put emphasis on creation and work.

And as I said, I trust Blackberrys security. Not knowing very much about it. But the trust is there. I do not trust Apples security after a lot of articles and information like this:
Apple still encourage users to use the very unsecure iCloud

Apple with the NSA in the PRISM program

And about the walled garden, it is your data they keep to themselves (music, magazines, movies...), and at the same time have a problem keeping your privacy yours...

I'd like to see any evidence that Apple has any ability to access any of my data in iCloud, as this article claims. So that article I wouldn't count as "information" but as "misinformation".

 

[sinsin07]

snip...And the iPhone has made room for a lot of time waste apps, and the Blackberry put emphasis on creation and work.

This was a sad song started and sung by Mike and Jim.

2011 battle cry: "Tools, not toys"

Four years after the introduction of the iPhone.

One year after the iPhone surpassed Blackberry in sales.

It is sad to see the song still being sung by Blackberry proponents.

snip..and the Blackberry put emphasis on creation and work.

And thus this thread and why they have less than 5% market share and dropping.

Note to OP: The world is getting work done, without Blackberry.

 

[mastercheif91]

I'm shocked nobody has brought this up.

What propelled blackberry to unprecedented success in the consumer market was the explosion of BBM. If you were in you late teens/early 20's around 2007-2008, you saw your peers make a mass migration to blackberry so they they could have group chats and gossip about read receipts. Before this, the most advanced messaging beyond simple SMS that had caught on with this demographic was SMS forwarded AIM. Most of them also installed the Facebook app and the brick game on their Blackberrys, but that was the extent of their investment in the ecosystem.

RIM's mistake was not recognizing that the consumer demographic had no deep investment in their ecosystem besides for BBM. While they may have been able to survive a exodus of this demographic, the double whammy was that Exchange ActiveSync was about to harvest BES's organs and grind them to obliteration. Without the advent of usable ActiveSync in the enterprise market, Blackberry might have been able to maintain their stranglehold on enterprise. However, ActiveSync began the BYOD (bring your own device) revolution that would upend everything we thought we knew about IT.

The slow, antagonizing death of BBM is what made Blackberry a source of ridicule for many. What was once the coolest way to interact with your friends 'cool' enough to be in the know became a laughing stock of abandonment; just like AIM and MySpace before it. Once you develop that reputation, there's no coming back. In my opinion, if Blackberry had made BES and BBM applications for the iPhone, we would be talking about the RIM Apple duopoly instead of the Google Apple one. This would have hurt the Blackberry hardware business, but it would have prevented it from becoming a dead end. Instead of BBM becoming a slow dying barren wasteland, people who got iPhones would have simply created a BBM account, and I bet you a lot would have even paid for a subscription to do it at the time. Instead of IT departments seeing the light of future flexibility with Exchange, they would have just told employees to use the BES app on their iPhone which would sandbox all of their data and nobody would have thought twice about it.

Sometimes, you have to cut off the limb to save the body.

 

[Pilgrim1099]

The perception is there, whether you want to recognize it or not.

Yes. This has been said for the last couple of years. Eventually it will be true.

This sentence makes no sense. It appears you're rambling.

Based on the above you don't understand football or the business world.

Ridiculous statement.
All companies have a lot to loose if the they screw things up, not just Apple.

When you feelings matter to the business world, this will have some relevance.

There is certainly BS here, but not with the metrics, it started and ended with post number 171.

No S@3t, really?

You'll find these same egos in every large company. Nothing special here.

Only in your world.

Defensive much, Apple Apologist?

 

[sinsin07]

Defensive much, Apple Apologist?

No apology was offered. Just a refute of your inane ramblings.

 

[CrzyP]

I had a Storm 2. I loved it!

 

[MacInTO]

As someone who made the unfortunate of buying a Storm (was locked into a Verizon contract at the time), I can attest that RIM had no clue what it was doing. The executives never managed to pull their heads from their asses and design something even moderately competitive. I kept the Storm for a whopping 10 months before switching to AT&T for the iPhone. The Storm was complete garbage. The OS deteriorated over time to the point that I couldn't even answer telephone calls and that was with minimal apps installed and plenty of free space on the device.

I would expect any electronics company to take at least 2 years to catch up to Apple when it enters an industry with a groundbreaking device such as the iPhone, but the fact is RIM had 8 years and couldn't produce ****, all the while insisting that business customers needed a physical keyboard. Sure some are probably still clinging to their Blackberries but that is such a niche market.

Maybe that is where the expression, "S h * t Storm" comes from!

Hopefully it hasn't been said here before!

 

[MacInTO]

In many ways, the only difference between the iPhone and the existing Palm Treo series of phones is that the iPhone had:

• a much larger finger-based touch screen
• "zoom" capability
• a walled garden app store

The Treo 180, 270, 650, and 680 all had:

• stylus based touch screen
• web browser (maybe only later models, I'm not sure)
• no crapware if purchased directly from Palm
• access to hundreds of apps from dozens of developers

You're correct! Although there was also a Treo 600 that was released in 2003.

I was a big fan of the Palm Treo. I got the Treo 600 in early 2004 and then the 650 in 2006. I think I remember paying $400 for each of them - which was a lot of money! Although I remember buying a Motorola Micro-Tac Elite in 1994 for something like $1000!

Both the 600 and 650 had great wireless connectivity (for the time). There were some great apps. My favourite was the alarm clock that would download the weather before going off. The Treo used very little energy because it connected to the internet only when it was required - kind of like dial-up! It also had a rudimentary camera (max 640x480). It was crappy, but it started something new! It spawned photoblogs such as TextAmerica - which was free for a while until they decided to start charging in 2006. I think they went under shortly after that! Uploading photos from a phone was such a novelty for me that I uploaded most of the photos from my two Palm Treos. The photos are still online today (on Fotki.com)!

I purchase the 1st gen iPhone when it was released in 2007. I used it for two week and sold it because I found the Treo was still better at the time. I was able to sync it with my Mac wirelessly (via Bluetooth!) - something the iPhone couldn't do for a while.

I still have the Treo 650 and it still works today!

Treo 600 & 650

Unlocking 1st Gen iPhone

 

[robeddie]

Arrogance. It's that simple.

It killed Nokia, and it killed BlackBerry. It nearly killed Microsoft (Before they managed to recover under S. Nadella).

And it'll be what kills Google as well.

And ... Apple as well.

 

[Michael Scrip]

I was a big fan of the Palm Treo. I got the Treo 600 in early 2004 and then the 650 in 2006. I think I remember paying $400 for each of them - which was a lot of money! Although I remember buying a Motorola Micro-Tac Elite in 1994 for something like $1000!

I purchase the 1st gen iPhone when it was released in 2007. I used it for two week and sold it because I found the Treo was still better at the time. I was able to sync it with my Mac wirelessly - something the iPhone couldn't do for a while.

It's hard to believe that Palm was around for 15 years before the iPhone...

... yet they were gone just 3 years after the iPhone.

Coincidence?

At least Blackberry is (somehow) still around after 30 years.

 

[DeepIn2U]

security is the exact same argument as our customers need keyboards

do you know what cell phone the CEO of Apple uses? What about the CEO of MS? Google? Vladamir Putin? Maybe the NSA needs these super secure hardware locks, maybe not, but plenty of VIPs clearly do not.

Thus security or not, RIMM would still suffer the same fate.

Funny enough their obituary has been sung, signed and sealed for what the past 3yrs and yet still hasn't happened, you're stating the same thing over and over again.

BTW - CEO of Google or former CEO uses a BB.

Vladimir Putin, really? Considering going from the USSR to Russia hasn't really helped that argument their falling about.

Many governements uses BB including MANY divisions for top security such as you very own government: Air Force, Navy, Marines, Homeland Security, etc. Try looking it up for once. Many state government officials as well. Many use Android and iOS however the higher level departments use BB.

So you're point basically spits verbatim without even researching.

 

[MacInTO]

It's hard to believe that Palm was around for 15 years before the iPhone...

... yet they were gone just 3 years after the iPhone.

Coincidence?

At least Blackberry is (somehow) still around after 30 years.

How did you get 15 years?

 

[Michael Scrip]

How did you get 15 years?

"Palm Computing, Inc. was founded in 1992 by Jeff Hawkins, who later hired Donna Dubinsky and Ed Colligan, all of whom guided Palm to the invention of the Palm Pilot."

I said Palm was around 15 years before the iPhone:

2007-1992 = 15

 

[Michael Scrip]

Funny enough their obituary has been sung, signed and sealed for what the past 3yrs and yet still hasn't happened, you're stating the same thing over and over again.

BTW - CEO of Google or former CEO uses a BB.

Vladimir Putin, really? Considering going from the USSR to Russia hasn't really helped that argument their falling about.

Many governements uses BB including MANY divisions for top security such as you very own government: Air Force, Navy, Marines, Homeland Security, etc. Try looking it up for once. Many state government officials as well. Many use Android and iOS however the higher level departments use BB.

There's still a market for what Blackberry offers... but it's very niche now.

You said it... high-security government customers are what Blackberry is best known for.

They're no longer a consumer company.

Blackberry sold 9 million units in 2014... but that's a far cry from the 50 million they sold in 2010.

And headlines like this don't help either:

"BlackBerry announces lowest quarterly sales in 8 years" - March 27, 2015

You're right... Blackberry isn't dead. But they're not looking so good.

 

[AlecZ]

Steve Jobs and I cannot wait to see that day.

As annoying as Google can be, think of how bad the top search engine corporation could have been. Imagine if Yahoo! or Microsoft were in their position. I'm pretty happy it's Google instead of someone else, and I'm surprised at how well they behave with their near-monopolies. Realistically, who would you rather see as the king of search engines, online videos, and other stuff?

Anyway, they'll become obsolete some day. It'll happen.

 

[MacInTO]

"Palm Computing, Inc. was founded in 1992 by Jeff Hawkins, who later hired Donna Dubinsky and Ed Colligan, all of whom guided Palm to the invention of the Palm Pilot."

I said Palm was around 15 years before the iPhone:

2007-1992 = 15

Right.

From my recollection, the first real usable palm pilot was introduced in the mid 90s from 3Com/USRobotics - who I assume were the financial backers. I had one that has '3Com' as the brand and Palm Pilot was the model. I recall in the early 2000s they were spun off as Palm Corp and them turned into PalmOne sometime after that.

That is when it started to get messed up because the put one out with the windows OS. It didn't work as well as the Palm OS models - imho.

Regardless, it was a great product for its time. I personally think it was better than the first gen iPhone but the 3G likely finished it off.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Right.

From my recollection, the first real usable palm pilot was introduced in the mid 90s from 3Com/USRobotics - who I assume were the financial backers. I had one that has '3Com' as the brand and Palm Pilot was the model. I recall in the early 2000s they were spun off as Palm Corp and them turned into PalmOne sometime after that.

That is when it started to get messed up because the put one out with the windows OS. It didn't work as well as the Palm OS models - imho.

Regardless, it was a great product for its time. I personally think it was better than the first gen iPhone but the 3G likely finished it off.

However the timeline went... they're gone now.

It's funny how this article is talking about Blackberry's downfall... but they're still around.

And then there was a company named Palm... and then there wasn't a company named Palm.

It's crazy how things can change.

 

[MacInTO]

However the timeline went... they're gone now.

It's funny how this article is talking about Blackberry's downfall... but they're still around.

And then there was a company named Palm... and then there wasn't a company named Palm.

It's crazy how things can change.

Palm played a key role in the creation and development of the smartphone.

Blackberry was a bigger player in the market and the rise and fall of their financial position and segment in the market probably tell a better story than Palm. But either, I don't think, will make a very good read.

That's how business goes. Que sera, sera.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

Funny enough their obituary has been sung, signed and sealed for what the past 3yrs and yet still hasn't happened, you're stating the same thing over and over again.

BTW - CEO of Google or former CEO uses a BB.

Vladimir Putin, really? Considering going from the USSR to Russia hasn't really helped that argument their falling about.

Many governements uses BB including MANY divisions for top security such as you very own government: Air Force, Navy, Marines, Homeland Security, etc. Try looking it up for once. Many state government officials as well. Many use Android and iOS however the higher level departments use BB.

So you're point basically spits verbatim without even researching.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/02/news/companies/Research_earnings/
https://forums.macrumors.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=21348495

Net Income in 2008 was 400 million.
Net Income in 2015 was -300 million.

They've doing 700 million worse today and more importantly have completely failed to grow with smartphone market. It's only a matter of time until they get bought out.

 

[giffut]

I ...

... think Thomas Heins did the right things restructuring the company, but failed in communication and promoting BB10 and the new excellent devices like the Blackberry Z10 and Z30. Locking himself into exclusive carriers was just stupid. They could have sold millions of devices unlocked for anyone.

I am now using a Z10, my wife a Z30 – and the fusion between Blackberry centric communications hub and Android software is just perfect. Syncing with OS X or Windows working great.

I do wish them to stay around much longer for us consumers.