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What a mess.

Wait...
- the top two rows of this chart show Apple devices and supported OS features over 3 years.

- the bottom row compares the Android OS and supported features over 3 years.

For this to even be remotely relevant, the bottom row should list every Android DEVICE and the supported OS features over the past 3 years. THAT would be a mess.

You are literally comparing apples to oranges in this chart.
 
Fragmentation is brand new hardware shipping with legacy operating systems 9 months after a new OS release. It's developers looking at the software/hardware landscape and saying "screw it".

Those developers need to look at the documentation for Android then. I posted the relevant blurb a few pages back. It's baked in there. The Android site has dashboards to help guide developers to setting these SDK parameters to properly target very specific niches or broad devices. etc..

iOS doesn't provide such dashboards or tools. It's basically letting the developer make guesses. It works because Apple still has limited devices, but to pretend fragmentation isn't there is wrong.

Heck, Fraaaa said it best, the Android app he posted a quote from supports 707 devices. That's a heck of a lot of devices. Yet all the support e-mails are not about troubles or glitches, they're about "please support my device". So the app is working fine on over 700 different hardware platforms.

The fact is, Developers have been working in a fragmented hardware world for ages. The PC is the perfect example. Proper API design abstracts hardware based fragmentation enough that it becomes irrelevant, except as a talking point for others who want to hide their own fragmentation. No one would make such comments in Apple threads if Apple didn't keep poking the "fragmentation" bit. They should just shut up about it, stop talking about their competitors and look at their own little sandbox. Seems to me before they go accusing anyone of "copying" or "being fragmented", they should look in a friggin' mirror.

I like Apple products, I don't like how the company behaves sometimes.
 
Wait...
- the top two rows of this chart show Apple devices and supported OS features over 3 years.

- the bottom row compares the Android OS and supported features over 3 years.

For this to even be remotely relevant, the bottom row should list every Android DEVICE and the supported OS features over the past 3 years. THAT would be a mess.

You are literally comparing apples to oranges in this chart.
Some would say Apples to lemons.
 
GPS? Really? True satellite GPS as a TomTom GPS, or is it just some kind of 3G cellular triangulation trick requiring both a data plan (money) and coverage? IT IS NOT THE SAME.

What? Of course it's using actual GPS signals for location. It does require a data plan however which makes it impractical for international use. Hopefully they will add the ability for offline maps at some point.

Here it is: NOT true GPS. It requires que Cellular (phone) connection to communicate with the satellites via the Global Navigation Satellite System (GLONASS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS

As shown at:
Assisted GPS and GLONASS
http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs

The true GPS is "Dedicated GPS" as a TomTom, for instance (not requiring cellular connection).

IT WOULD BE GREAT IF FUTURE IOS DEVICES HAD A TRUE DEDICATED GPS INSIDE!!!
 
Here it is: NOT true GPS. It requires que Cellular (phone) connection to communicate with the satellites via the Global Navigation Satellite System (GLONASS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS

As shown at:
Assisted GPS and GLONASS
http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs

The true GPS is "Dedicated GPS" as a TomTom, for instance (not requiring cellular connection).

IT WOULD BE GREAT IF FUTURE IOS DEVICES HAD A TRUE DEDICATED GPS INSIDE!!!

Wut?

Assisted GPS means it gets a rough location using cellular triangulation, uses that to communicate with nearby GPS sattellites then provides your location. It's full-blown GPS.

You can use turn-by-turn apps such as Tom Tom with zero cellular signal. It just takes longer to get your position.

GLONASS is just a different system to GPS made by the Russians. Same thing though, sattellites, nothing to do with cellular data signals.
 
The 4S actually has the HSDPA+ which gives it "4G like" capabilities. The same is said for the iPad 3 which also has LTE (and HSDPA+). Therefore, I would imagine that the limitation for the codec that they are using to transmit video over the SS7 network is most likely the reason for them only allowing FaceTime on those 2 devices. They should have just come out and said, FaceTime over 4G. It is quite misleading.

Apple, like most of the world, has had issues calling HSDPA+ 4G. The only ones who do that it seems are AT&T and T-Mobile. I don't really like calling LTE 4G.
 
Here it is: NOT true GPS. It requires que Cellular (phone) connection to communicate with the satellites via the Global Navigation Satellite System (GLONASS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS

As shown at:
Assisted GPS and GLONASS
http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs

The true GPS is "Dedicated GPS" as a TomTom, for instance (not requiring cellular connection).

IT WOULD BE GREAT IF FUTURE IOS DEVICES HAD A TRUE DEDICATED GPS INSIDE!!!
GLONASS is not the GPS system that most devices use worldwide. Try this link instead:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gps

iPhones (and iPads with 3G option) also have a physical GPS receiver built in. Exactly the same kind of receiver chips that are in your dedicated GPS. Assisted GPS simply means it uses triangulation when first started to determine your approximate area, which reduces the time it takes for the built in GPS receiver to acquire an exact location.
 
or you can jailbreak your device and find out it works just fine right now

Plan to do that on the iPad 2 if I can get Siri to work on it. No way iPad 2 can't run Siri on wifi. Please I bet even the iPhone 4 can run Siri.:rolleyes:
 
What are you guys going on about. Turn by turn isn't on the iPhone 4 because its integrated with Siri. Siri wasn't on the iPhone 4 when it was relevant hardware when iOS5 was released never mind now!
iPad 2 will have turn by turn navigation, but will not have Siri. Therefore, turn by turn does not require Siri.
 
Those developers need to look at the documentation for Android then. I posted the relevant blurb a few pages back. It's baked in there. The Android site has dashboards to help guide developers to setting these SDK parameters to properly target very specific niches or broad devices. etc..

iOS doesn't provide such dashboards or tools. It's basically letting the developer make guesses. It works because Apple still has limited devices, but to pretend fragmentation isn't there is wrong.

Heck, Fraaaa said it best, the Android app he posted a quote from supports 707 devices. That's a heck of a lot of devices. Yet all the support e-mails are not about troubles or glitches, they're about "please support my device". So the app is working fine on over 700 different hardware platforms.

The fact is, Developers have been working in a fragmented hardware world for ages. The PC is the perfect example. Proper API design abstracts hardware based fragmentation enough that it becomes irrelevant, except as a talking point for others who want to hide their own fragmentation. No one would make such comments in Apple threads if Apple didn't keep poking the "fragmentation" bit. They should just shut up about it, stop talking about their competitors and look at their own little sandbox. Seems to me before they go accusing anyone of "copying" or "being fragmented", they should look in a friggin' mirror.

I like Apple products, I don't like how the company behaves sometimes.

Maybe their competitors should stop copying them and using technology Apple creates to make their product feel more like Apples. Go to any phone store and listen to the sales pitch. Fragmentation stems from the hundreds of devices still being sold that will never be able to run the current operating system. The difference with Apple is even with the 3GS the features left out are usually hardware dependent and unavailable to most apps anyway. When I had the original iPhone I didn't expect GPS to work when the upgraded to the 3G. They did give me something though, by triangulating my position. My 3GS has also been turn it to a completely new phone twice. I would be so angry if I bought the latest and the greatest phone in March only to have a new phone come out in May with an updated OS that I will never be able to use at all.
 
It is true GPS - you are absolutely wrong.

Here it is: NOT true GPS. It requires que Cellular (phone) connection to communicate with the satellites via the Global Navigation Satellite System (GLONASS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS

As shown at:
Assisted GPS and GLONASS
http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs

The true GPS is "Dedicated GPS" as a TomTom, for instance (not requiring cellular connection).

IT WOULD BE GREAT IF FUTURE IOS DEVICES HAD A TRUE DEDICATED GPS INSIDE!!!

Many people seem to get AGPS confused. The A is simply an enhancement to quicken the position determination that can come solely from the satellites. The assist is not required on the iPhone or iPad. I am a pilot and use my iPhone for flight. It is fully capable of determining 3D position with absolutely zero cellular connection. Any NAV App that lets its Map data reside on the phone and not require load from cellular will work this way. Navigon is one turn-by-turn App that works perfectly, and thousands of pilots as my self use Foreflight for air navigation, way above cellular reception. I use Navigon while flying commercially as well. It is legal. Simply go to General>Network> and turn off cellular data to comply with FAA regs. That will allow only the GPS antenna to operate.
 
iPad 2 will have turn by turn navigation, but will not have Siri. Therefore, turn by turn does not require Siri.
True, but the iPad 2 and iPhone 4S both have the same processor though. I believe this is the reason for the limitation. The 4S also has additional hardware for processing Siri that was not included in the iPad 2.
 
....But that's why people are not happy. Apple has not always been like this. And it seems symptomatic of the short-sighted greediness so many companies have.

Apple has not always been like this? When you consider their iOS products have only started coming out in the past 3+ years and that unlike Samsung/Android they have ONE major upgrade per year on iOS devices that it makes perfect sense that this is the way they are going! Computers don't have the same shorter lifespan that portable/handheld devices have. OF COURSE they are going to push you to buy their new device. Just because they are Apple and have a fan base is not enough to always ensure people will buy the next updated device, they have to give a nudge to ensure that people will invest in the hardware. To think otherwise is naieve.

The problem is that Apple prevent owners reverting to earlier OS's. So if you upgrade to iOS 6 & find it is slow after a few weeks or you prefer iOS 5's Google maps app you may not be able to revert it back to iOS 5. Apple actively remove your ability to restore a device to OS prior to the last one.

I agree, this is not of benefit to the consumer. In this way Apple really does nto trust the end user to do anything with our own devices.

Well, you make a good point on the MMS and VC issues, but--in general--I think Jobs usually saw the big picture.

Apple shouldn't be using software gimping to trick Apple loyalists into upgrading prematurely.

Making money handover fist, as they are, they should be keeping existing users happy and letting them upgrade when they honestly feel the need.

I mean phone/mobile computing development could hardly be moving at a faster pace. Why does Apple have to go out of their way to deny features to their existing users?

I think it's a d-bag move that's super short-sighted.

As I mentioned above, since Apple releases ONE iOS device of each platform (iPad, iPhone) per year and does not charge for OS updates, it makes sense financially for them to do this, I did not say I like this, but they ARE a business and not a charity.

what most iphone 4 owners are failing to realize (yes I own a 4) is that this 6.0 software isn't coming out until the fall which is the same time the new iphone should be released so you won't be missing anything. So you 4 owns gotta relax given that most of us 4 owners got our phones in 2010 your due for an upgrade anyway

Yeah, I am waiting for the SSG3 to come out so I can physically go check it out in the store. iOS hasn't offered me enough of an insentive to wait around. Mind you, if I don't like how the Galaxy 3 feels and works, I guess I will wait to see what comes around the bend.

I find it interesteing how much unicorn and rainbow illusions people seem to be regarding how Apple views it's client base and viewing"forcing" people to have to upgrade their devices as a personal affront. Apple has NOT been that hippy computer company that "thinks different" for a LONG time now. It is a huge money making machine that puts out quality products. You don't stay cutting edge by holding on to antiquated products. Just look at what they are doing to the MBP lines.. Not my cup of tea, not going to be buying laptops from Apple anymore because they don't fill MY need, but people here need to learn it's not about the people. Yes having a happy client base is good, but sometimes you have to push people into change and Apple has ALWAYS being about that. Look at SJ not doing consumer research and being known to say that people don't know what they want, we are going to show them.
 
Maybe their competitors should stop copying them and using technology Apple creates to make their product feel more like Apples.

No one cares but Apple and some of Apple's more "loyal fans". First and foremost, no one uses Apple created technology. They create their own. If it infringes on Apple's patents, they get sued. If found guilty, they reimplement it to not infringe.

When Apple however goes on and "copies", it's quite hypocritical for them to make a damn scene about others copying them. Again, goes back to what I'm saying : Apple should look in a mirror before it goes nuclear on everyone else for "copying" and "fragmentation".

They have the same issues. Pot, meet Kettle and all. That is the only reason it gets brought up here, because Apple are a bunch of hypocrites when it comes to these issues. Like the products, don't always like the company's behavior.

Go to any phone store and listen to the sales pitch. Fragmentation stems from the hundreds of devices still being sold that will never be able to run the current operating system. The difference with Apple is even with the 3GS the features left out are usually hardware dependent and unavailable to most apps anyway.

Facetime over 3G is hardware dependant ? Really ?

Apple hides fragmentation by updating a UIlabel to say "iOS 6". It's still fragmented and not getting the "latest OS features", it's just getting a new number to display in the About box. Same difference. :rolleyes:

And again, on Android, the OS version matters much less than on iOS. The design is different, the updates don't work the same way, and the core OS updates carry a different meaning. You're looking at Android with iOS eyes. That's the wrong approach. Learn what it is you're criticizing, maybe you'll find your criticism has been addressed, many times over, just not in the way you expect it or in the way Apple addressed it on their side of the pond.

Different software works differently, what a weird concept uh ? :eek:
 
Wait...
- the top two rows of this chart show Apple devices and supported OS features over 3 years.

- the bottom row compares the Android OS and supported features over 3 years.

Maybe you should compare the number of features phones older than 6 months get when the new operating system comes out. Unlike Android, Apple at least makes an effort to make sure the phone actually does it primary purpose and doesn't need to be charged after a couple of hours of use, just to say we have this feature or that.

He is a real chart of the shape of android and how the business world sees it.

http://www.businessinsider.com/android-fragmentation-chart-from-opensignalmaps-2012-5
 
Microsoft supports legacy technologies and hardware platforms a lot longer by keeping their driver architectures intact a lot longer, by offering extended support lifecycles on older OSes, etc..

It's not fair to compare an operating system to an entire product. If Microsoft made a computer, hardware and software, and supported it fully for seven to eight years, that would fairly impressive. However, maintaining a driver architecture as evidence of their intent to support their product longer is probably also invalid. Microsoft is a victim of their own success, and as such, was (perhaps, we'll see in Windows 8 the real version) incapable of making great changes in direction without disturbing their product offering: massive compatibility with everything. They also leverage this position by causing the hardware manufacturers to conform.

And what happens when your TangZang Micro. Modem doesn't work? TangZang Micro sucks right? They make ****** hardware and software right? Not Microsoft's fault. If you bought SuperPlatinum Cisco it would work great.

And lets dive a little deeper into Windows and see just what you get for these seven years of mainstream Windows XP support. According to Microsoft's website, they will keep their documentation up to date including the knowledge base, I get security updates, hotfixes, and I can request features. However, I'm also entitled to PAY THEM for support. Oh sure, I'm entitled to 90 days of "free" support IF I buy the software in a retail box that costs around $150 more than an OEM kit and $300 more than the one that came with the prebuilt computer I purchased.

So, essentially, if you still want to compare operating systems to total consumer products, Microsoft offers a worse version of AppleCare that lasts 90 days instead of a full year. Unless you want to pay of course. (oh, and it costs $300 to upgrade my 3 year old PC, not FREE as with the iPhone 3GS)

HP is just amazing at it. They are still supporting, actively, 24/7, 10 year old hardware I have, running a 12 year old OS. I get updates, I get phone support, etc..

Now, Apple is a consumer company, whereas all the other players pretty much have a hand in enterprise. Is it a fair comparison ? No.

This isn't just unfair, it's stupid. This is like saying jets have way better legacy support than cars. Yeah, they have way better "legacy support" cause you pay engineers and mechanics millions of dollars a year to keep them running for as long as possible. Sure, those Engineers have access to Boeing technical documents, training, security updates, etc. But you bet your ass the airlines PAY for that support. Even if I had to pay Apple some large fraction of the cost of my device every year to be able to use the Genius Bar or phone support, this still doesn't make any sense on topic cause what you'd essentially be doing is calling HP and bitching that their old HP-UX server doesn't support some new feature like native multipathing that came out last year. This is like complaining that your 737's TVs are old tube TVs running on VHS instead of flatscreens on DVD. That isn't support. Is something wrong with what we sold you? NO? Then your options are A) don't call me or B) pay me more money to care.

But let's no pretend "Apple supports older hardware longer than their competitors", please. Let's keep it to the facts, understand the facts, and know why it is like it is. This isn't a blow against Apple, quite the contrary, it shows their great understanding of their market segment, the consumer market.

This is just sad you mentioning Microsoft of all companies hot the heels of their announcements that it is likely that NO current Windows 7.5 phone will even be upgradable to Windows 8 and Upgrade to Windows 7.5 or GET OFF MY MARKET.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
After reading the list again and again I can understand that hardware issues may be a problem for some of the features, but I still do not understand why we are unable to use FaceTime over 3G on iPhone 4.

True, but the iPad 2 and iPhone 4S both have the same processor though. I believe this is the reason for the limitation. The 4S also has additional hardware for processing Siri that was not included in the iPad 2.

Processor performance may be the main issue here, however Siri's role in turn by turn navigation is completely irrelevant as stated above.

I would venture a guess that turn by turn navigation works great on the iPhone 4, however performance may be too slow in their eyes.
 
No FaceTime over 3G for iPhone 4? :mad:
No Siri support for iPod or iPhone 4? :mad:
No Turn by Turn Directions for iPhone 4? :mad:

:apple: Is it still magical?:apple: :p

They really do need to get the turn by turn navigation for all their mobile options. Glancing at the screen periodically and tapping for more directions is too much like texting while driving. Scary and not safe at all.
 
It's not fair to compare an operating system to an entire product.

What other competitors did Cassidy mean then ? I think I said myself it wasn't a fair comparison, but frankly, Apple doesn't have any other competitors that aren't also big enterprise players.

Again, not a rag on Apple, maybe you took my post a bit personally ? Apple is about the only player playing exclusively in the consumer market with their offerings. They have thus a very consumer oriented product lifecycle. And frankly, that's why it works best in the consumer world.

This is an Apple advantage. Why are you reading my post and responding to me as if I was attacking you or Apple ? :rolleyes:
 
Here it is: NOT true GPS. It requires que Cellular (phone) connection to communicate with the satellites via the Global Navigation Satellite System (GLONASS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS

As shown at:
Assisted GPS and GLONASS
http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs

The true GPS is "Dedicated GPS" as a TomTom, for instance (not requiring cellular connection).

IT WOULD BE GREAT IF FUTURE IOS DEVICES HAD A TRUE DEDICATED GPS INSIDE!!!

iOS devices do have true GPS inside. This has been beaten to death but still manages to re-emerge any time something new related to GPS comes out. They have had true GPS since the iPhone 3G. You need only look at the chips they are using. True GPS that talks to GPS satellites in the sky to triangulate your position. Location on (GPS equipped) iOS devices is *helped* by cell towers, and *helped* by wifi access points, but they get actual accurate tracking using GPS satellites.
 
Microsoft's ongoing support of legacy products is one reason Windows is so bloated and full of holes. Still. Embarrassing that you can still find exploits in the OS after this long.

I much prefer Apple's approach of leaving the past in the past.

There are no features in iOS 6 that are so important your iPad 1 or iPhone 3GS is now unusable.
 
I find it funny that they don't support facetime over 3G. My wife and I facetime over 3G (jailbroken 3G Unrestricter) all the time. On a 4 and 4S, and it works great. It's not like the hardware can't handle it.

I guess it's a reason to make the newest model most desirable.
 
Microsoft's ongoing support of legacy products is one reason Windows is so bloated and full of holes. Still. Embarrassing that you can still find exploits in the OS after this long.

I much prefer Apple's approach of leaving the past in the past.

That was my point. And I made the same comment to pubwvj's post. Bit rot is atrocious for Q&A, it's atrocious for support, and it's darn atrocious for development of new functinality without breaking regressions.

In the fast moving consumer world, best leave the legacy cruft in the past where it belongs. That's actually something Apple does well. They could be a little more open about discussing it in advance for their pro users, but their lifecycles are pretty darn on target for their general market.

I was just rebutting Cassidy's point that Apple supports their products longer.

----------

I find it funny that they don't support facetime over 3G. My wife and I facetime over 3G (jailbroken 3G Unrestricter) all the time. On a 4 and 4S, and it works great. It's not like the hardware can't handle it.

I guess it's a reason to make the newest model most desirable.

The jailbreak community had wallpapers and multi-tasking fine on the iPhone 3G years before iOS 4. Yet Apple omitted both those features from the iPhone 3G.

Friggin' wallpaper. A few colored pixels behind the UI. It wasn't a hardware issue, the iPhone 3G never really got iOS 4 at all. Apple just really likes to boost adoption numbers this way.
 
They really do need to get the turn by turn navigation for all their mobile options. Glancing at the screen periodically and tapping for more directions is too much like texting while driving. Scary and not safe at all.

I'd be inclined to agree with you.

Some of the functions for using your iPhone as a navigation tool do work, but not very well. They should really go all or nothing on this one.

You don't get turn by turn updates on an iPhone 4 so you have to keep checking it visually. If you go off route you have to interact with the phone again to get it to calculate a new route for you. As you say, not safe.
 
True, but the iPad 2 and iPhone 4S both have the same processor though. I believe this is the reason for the limitation. The 4S also has additional hardware for processing Siri that was not included in the iPad 2.

Really? What additional hardware on the client side is required for "processing" Siri?
 
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