New Honeycomb preview today, your toughts for iOS5 please

[Piggie]

I don't think Apple didn't consider changing the OS to work specifically for the tablet, they thought that it was more important to have a unified user experience across all their iDevices. And as long as they keep making apps, like The Daily, that are designed specifically for the iPad, I'm fine with the iPad sharing the OS with the iPhone. Well, the notification system needs to be improved -- it shouldn't pop up in the middle of the screen, and there should be a way to review old notifications, not just see the one latest alert and then it disappears forever. But that doesn't have to be different from the iPhone.

I still believe Apple did not put a LOT of work into a new tablet UI for 2 reasons, that are both the same really.

1: They had no idea the iPad would be a success, so why invest your company totally into something that may be a total flop as virtually all previous tablet had been.

2: The did not wish to frighten away their loyal customers, not the tech customers, but the guy in the street ones with something too new, they needed him to see the iPad UI and understand what it was as it was the same as he'd seen before and not be frightened of it and not buy it, again, causing the iPad to flop again as another techy thing average consumers just did not get.

Basically, Apple put as little work in as possible and also wanted to keep it dumbed down at the same time.

Ensuring if it did flop, minimum damage, at the same time making it simple so hopefully people would buy it as it was familiar to their phone and touch from Apple.

Ok, job done, market established.

Only problem now is, they are stuck with it.

Do they now make it more advanced and confuse the people in the street who are not "into" computers?

Or do they keep it dumb and frustrate those who want more?

It's almost like they had to step back a long way for product No.1 to give it best chance to work, but not it's worked, they are stuck in the past, and how do they get themselves back to today with minimum damage?

 

[petvas]

I don't think that Honeycomb is going to be as good as the demos so far have shown. There are a couple of articles on the web where a specific disappointment about Honeycomb is being expressed. Just read these articles:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4150/googles-android-event-analysis
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news...neycomb-android-30-user-interface-preview.ars

I quote Ars Technica: The Honeycomb tablet interface has some novel elements, but it feels very incomplete and has a lot of rough edges. It's important to remember that this is still an early preview build, however. We are hoping to see a more polished and mature version next month when it arrives on actual hardware.

 

[Night Spring]

1: They had no idea the iPad would be a success, so why invest your company totally into something that may be a total flop as virtually all previous tablet had been.

2: The did not wish to frighten away their loyal customers, not the tech customers, but the guy in the street ones with something too new, they needed him to see the iPad UI and understand what it was as it was the same as he'd seen before and not be frightened of it and not buy it, again, causing the iPad to flop again as another techy thing average consumers just did not get.

As I've said before in other threads, I don't agree with point 1. I don't think Apple "had no idea" that the iPad would be a success. I think they waited until they had a reasonable sense of confidence that a tablet would be a success before introducing it into the market.

But I totally agree with point 2, that they didn't want to frighten non-techy customers. Not because they thought if they did the iPad would be a flop, but that's just their basic philosophy, to cater to the non-tech segment of the population.

So I think the answer to the following question is a resounding YES.

Or do they keep it dumb and frustrate those who want more?

Well, Apple would say they are keeping it simple, not keeping it dumb, but yes, Apple has always frustrated those who want more, so why expect that they would change now?

 

[lusheslewis]

I consider myself a semi Apple fanboy, I love their products and I use them almost exclusively but I have a realistic view and a big interest in what other companies are doing.

I love my iPad and use it all the time (including at the moment!) and whilst I have only watched demos of Honeycomb and never used it myself (which is a pretty big difference) I think it's pretty clear that it wipes the floor with iOS on several counts.

1. Notifications. This is probably mine (and many others) single biggest gripe with iOS. The current notifications system is pretty pathetic and has been for a while. It was fine when the iPhone first came out and I can live with it on my iPhone even now but on a larger scale device it's not up to scratch.

2. Widgets/Redesigned home screen. I don't see this as such a big deal as it doesn't really get in the way of my day to day use. Having to tap once on the Twitter icon to (instantly) bring up a fully functional Twitter client rather than being able to view a few of the latest updates in a little window doesn't bother me too much! However if the option was there I would definitely use them for weather, calendar, tasks, mail and probably some feeds. I don't see this as a make or break issue though but definitely something that would be welcome.

The other major thing which I'm not sure if Honeycomb addresses is the lack of a filesystem.

Hopefully Apple introduces an integrated file system which can be linked to any number of cloud based services. Maybe that's what their huge server farm in NC is for! A me.com account for all OSX and iOS users. At the very least, any sort of file system developed by Apple would probably be far superior to the options available now (Dropbox/Goodreader).

Those are my three (big) wishes for iOS5. I'm probably being overly optimistic though. If they don't give us at least one of the three I think a lot of people will be pretty disappointed with Apple.

If that was the case however and someone offered me the choice of an iPad 2 or Xoom (disregarding price), I would still take the iPad 2. Not because I'm a fanboy but because there is nowhere near the range of apps (or accessories) to make the Xoom capable of what I am able to currently do on my iPad. At least not initially.

Also, as a consumer I (and a lot of people on these boards) look at more than just a feature list when deciding what to buy. It's about the whole user experience, innovation, stunning designs, build quality, customer support and a range of other things where Apple is unsurpassed.

Google just blatantly copying the iPad and throwing in a nice UI and widgets is not enough for me to switch. But it might be for some people. I respect that.

Cheers

Lewis

 

[Piggie]

I quote Ars Technica: The Honeycomb tablet interface has some novel elements, but it feels very incomplete and has a lot of rough edges. It's important to remember that this is still an early preview build, however. We are hoping to see a more polished and mature version next month when it arrives on actual hardware.

Indeed and I would expect anything new and version 1 to have issues that need tidying and, perhaps you could use the work gelling with all other parts of the OS.

iOS on the iPad is no exception. Different built in core apps feel like they were made by different teams who did not talk to each other.

The Calendar all, it all about pressing small buttons on screen to change months/views etc, where is all the smooth swiping across the screen to slide days, weeks across into view, it's all poke poke on buttons.

The photo app is on the other hand like someone with a totally different view on things wrote it, and it's all about eye candy with almost zero functionality to the point that many are frustrated you can't do anything as simple as create a folder, or drag a photo into a folder. It's just like a tech demo.

Just two example, of things that don't feel there were made to give the same user experience and feel as each other.

iOS probably needs another 2 or 3 versions on the iPad before we can say this is how Apple really want it to be.

Honeycomb is only version 1, and the public have not even used it yet. I'm sure after launch a long list of "Things that need putting right/improving" will start to grow.

Of course, I know Apple fans will pick it to shreds, that's a given.

It's good that customers are being given a choice, some are frustrated that for them iOS is just too simplified, and they want to have more options. Does not mean they are wrong.

 

[jmpnop]

I consider myself a semi Apple fanboy, I love their products and I use them almost exclusively but I have a realistic view and a big interest in what other companies are doing.

I love my iPad and use it all the time (including at the moment!) and whilst I have only watched demos of Honeycomb and never used it myself (which is a pretty big difference) I think it's pretty clear that it wipes the floor with iOS on several counts.

1. Notifications. This is probably mine (and many others) single biggest gripe with iOS. The current notifications system is pretty pathetic and has been for a while. It was fine when the iPhone first came out and I can live with it on my iPhone even now but on a larger scale device it's not up to scratch.

2. Widgets/Redesigned home screen. I don't see this as such a big deal as it doesn't really get in the way of my day to day use. Having to tap once on the Twitter icon to (instantly) bring up a fully functional Twitter client rather than being able to view a few of the latest updates in a little window doesn't bother me too much! However if the option was there I would definitely use them for weather, calendar, tasks, mail and probably some feeds. I don't see this as a make or break issue though but definitely something that would be welcome.

The other major thing which I'm not sure if Honeycomb addresses is the lack of a filesystem.

Hopefully Apple introduces an integrated file system which can be linked to any number of cloud based services. Maybe that's what their huge server farm in NC is for! A me.com account for all OSX and iOS users. At the very least, any sort of file system developed by Apple would probably be far superior to the options available now (Dropbox/Goodreader).

Those are my three (big) wishes for iOS5. I'm probably being overly optimistic though. If they don't give us at least one of the three I think a lot of people will be pretty disappointed with Apple.

If that was the case however and someone offered me the choice of an iPad 2 or Xoom (disregarding price), I would still take the iPad 2. Not because I'm a fanboy but because there is nowhere near the range of apps (or accessories) to make the Xoom capable of what I am able to currently do on my iPad. At least not initially.

Also, as a consumer I (and a lot of people on these boards) look at more than just a feature list when deciding what to buy. It's about the whole user experience, innovation, stunning designs, build quality, customer support and a range of other things where Apple is unsurpassed.

Google just blatantly copying the iPad and throwing in a nice UI and widgets is not enough for me to switch. But it might be for some people. I respect that.

Cheers

Lewis

I agree with you but differ a little on point 2. Widgets are okay-okay but having no homescreen(or similar) and only lists of apps is plain stupid...

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Competition is what benefits consumers. If after its release google's, and RIM's OS's get great reviews and point out flaws in Apple's OS it only benefits end users as Apple will strive to blow the doors off of the competition.

If there is no competing innovation everyone loses.

 

[lusheslewis]

I agree with you but differ a little on point 2. Widgets are okay-okay but having no homescreen(or similar) and only lists of apps is plain stupid...

I guess the idea is that people are going to spend the vast majority of their time in apps and not on the home screen. Therefore they want to make finding and opening apps as simple and accessible as possible.

 

[jmpnop]

I guess the idea is that people are going to spend the vast majority of their time in apps and not on the home screen. Therefore they want to make finding and opening apps as simple and accessible as possible.

If you look at iOS, there is nothing you can do without apps. For anything and everything, apps are the only way. The whole screen has nothing other than apps. This was okay in 2008 on iPhone and not on an iPad that has 9.7inch screen. It simply doesn't look good.

 

[petvas]

If you look at iOS, there is nothing you can do without apps. For anything and everything, apps are the only way. The whole screen has nothing other than apps. This was okay in 2008 on iPhone and not on an iPad that has 9.7inch screen. It simply doesn't look good.

I agree that iOS has to get more interactive and show us more information, at least on the lock screen. I am not very fond of having different pages full of widgets. I would prefer something like a dashboard. When swiping on the right or left of the screen the dashboard should appear with widgets. That would be more than enough.
If Apple also give us a better notification system, I will be very happy.

 

[Tunster]

iOS probably needs another 2 or 3 versions on the iPad before we can say this is how Apple really want it to be.

Honeycomb is only version 1, and the public have not even used it yet. I'm sure after launch a long list of "Things that need putting right/improving" will start to grow.

Two key points that I totally disagree on. Apple knew that it wanted the iPad to be a mobile device rather than a computing device. This is why it probably ditched ideas of creating a new OS or adopting Mac OS X. The first option is too expensive as it would need a different infrastructure and the second option... batteries arent capable of withstanding computing OSes needs.

I admit I originally was part of the "big iPhone" group. However, I saw the sense of keeping touch-screen UIs simple. Too many small buttons and lack of natural touch movement is why Microsoft failed with Windows.

This isn't a first version Android. It's version 3 that's been coded to adapt to tablets. 2.2 couldn't be well adapted as seen on early Android tablets (and my friends Dell Streak). We'll see honeycomb on smartphones too. In a sense, Google has adopted the same stratedgy as Apple to add a modified UI and recoded it to work on well. I can see where Android will have an advantage first. Apple did this the other way round and coded the mobile system quickly to fit the iPad with a minor update.

iOS5 is the key to where iPad will go from on par with Android to leading against Android.

 

[SteveKnobs]

This post may not seem relevant to some of the "current" conversations in this thread, but I need to vent so bare with me.

I spend a lot of time reading comments from the gizmodo/engadget readers- many of whom are Android groupies (there's a few of them here as well). Some of the more common arguements they make against Apple and iOS is that it is a closed, "oppressive" system.... "iOS isn't customizable, I can't do the things that I want too, I can't install these kernals and dual-boot, insert other nerdy geek language that I dont understand, Steve Jobs is a SLAVE MASTER!!"

What bothers me so much about this type of discourse is that it comes from, and represents the opinion of, about 10% of the consumer population. Your average consumer has no desire, and better yet, no knowledge of how to do the custom programming that so many people curse Apple for oppressing. Heck, I think it's fair to say that the majority of iPhone/iPad users could not care less about not being to customize their device like Android users so proclaim. Who is an iPhone user- your mom, uncle, perhaps your grandma. Most of the users are not programming majors and don't have the need or want to customize their device. The iOS works perfectly for them. It's simple, intuitive, and CLEAN. And that is all we REALLY need.

Don't be fooled by what you read on tech message boards- because who primarily participates in these forums? Nerds. And nerds are the consumer minority.

Sorry for the short novel- had to get that off my chest.

 

[chrmjenkins]

Engadget is VERY android heavy. You have to remember that this battle is nothing new. Android is a version of linux and WP7 and iOS represent the monolithic consumer OSes. This is the same tired argument we've been having since the 90's. There are many many things I like better about the android OS, but when it comes down to it, iOS is just easier and the apps are better, especially when it comes to media handling (an unified sync tool) and availability (netflix, itunes and hulu vs. hulu only).

Use what works for you.

 

[Piggie]

I do agree strongly about something said on an Engadget podcast, and I think most people here would agree.

You are Apple, you look at creating a brand new never before seen device, the iPAd.

You are starting with a totally blank slate, you have a resonable res 10" screen and a full multitouch touch interface and can design anything totally from scratch for this new device.

Is a empty screen with big icons you tap on to run one app at a time full screen the very very best your company could of come up with?

Is such a interface we have been given with the iPad, the Pinnacle of what you, as a world leading company can offer customers in 2010 ?

 

[thesmoth]

If you look at iOS, there is nothing you can do without apps. For anything and everything, apps are the only way. The whole screen has nothing other than apps. This was okay in 2008 on iPhone and not on an iPad that has 9.7inch screen. It simply doesn't look good.

This is why I compare it to a gameboy or old nintendo console. It's basically a pretty app launching board (like sticking in a game cartrige).

Remember everyone, iOS when it was first released (even now) was so incredibly non-ambitious. Google is trying to give the best tablet experience they can think of day 1, and then optimize and add things in the future. This is opposed to Apples view of crippling a product intentionally and adding minimal features (big ipod touch without even multitasking) and then slowly release a few at time (that should have been there in the first place) so that people run out and buy a new one.

Google has a much less evil ideology and they want to make it awesome and fully of function and features RIGHT AWAY. I totally respect that and understand that when you try and give people everything right away and are very ambitious with your feature set, there are going to be bugs that will need to be worked out in future incremental updates.

Apple on the other hand, doles out small updates strictly for monetary gain, which I find more repugnant.

 

[SteveKnobs]

I do agree strongly about something said on an Engadget podcast, and I think most people here would agree.

You are Apple, you look at creating a brand new never before seen device, the iPAd.

You are starting with a totally blank slate, you have a resonable res 10" screen and a full multitouch touch interface and can design anything totally from scratch for this new device.

Is a empty screen with big icons you tap on to run one app at a time full screen the very very best your company could of come up with?

Is such a interface we have been given with the iPad, the Pinnacle of what you, as a world leading company can offer customers in 2010 ?

I partially agree with this statement. However, I think this is merely hindsight. Of course now, nearly a year later, it seems ridiculous that THIS is what Apple gave us? A blown up iPhone? But my friend, a year ago, the iPad was the *****. It seriously was the coolest thing that I had ever seen, and when I finally got one for myself, I knew exactly how to use it. This is why I think the OS on the iPad was the same as for the iPhone- consistency, familiarity, ease of use. A 3 year user of the iPhone can pick up his shiny new iPad and get right to "work"- he knows how everything functions and he knows how to navigate it.

Also, don't forget the evolution and maturation that iOS has taken since the release of the iPad. It truly has grown into it's shoes- of course it may not be optimal. But it works, and works well. And there is still plenty of time for improvement and adaption- so wait and see. One thing that Apple does that I think makes it a top-tier tech company, is that it takes it's time. You may not get all of the features you want now, but when they do come, they will work perfectly.

 

[petvas]

Believing that one company is evil where another is not, is really silly and shows that you just don't understand how things work. Every company has its philosophy, but above all there is one thing that everybody wants: Money.
Google has a different approach than Apple but that doesn't mean that Apple is evil. How ridiculous! Apple has a very specific philosophy which is very successful. They developed iOS based on Mac OS X and they are using it as the platform for their smartphone and tablet devices. The main reason behind that is that people who know how to use an iPhone, know how to use a tablet also. The main difference is that apps take advantage of the larger screen estate.
I find Apples reasoning to be the right one, and I am sure that in the next versions of iOS they will bring even more features in their own unique way.

I also don't get how you can already pass judgement to Honeycomb, without even using it for a couple of days. Watching a couple of videos doesn't prove anything. Just wait a bit till all these devices come out and get tested on the real world. At the moment you seem to be concentrating on Honeycombs widgets and notifications (which I also like). You don't know the whole picture.

 

[mabaker]

and whilst I have only watched demos of Honeycomb and never used it myself (which is a pretty big difference) I think it's pretty clear that it wipes the floor with iOS on several counts.

That statement sums up 90% of the thinking of the Mac forums here. Compare, compare, compare and base your statements on…. fairy video presentations.

Preciousness.

 

[thesmoth]

I admit I originally was part of the "big iPhone" group. However, I saw the sense of keeping touch-screen UIs simple. Too many small buttons and lack of natural touch movement is why Microsoft failed with Windows.

The iPad was, and still is, exactly a big ipod touch. Now that can be great for apps, because all you have to do is use one for 30 seconds to know that apps are WAY better on the iPad.

Having said that, no one is saying they want apple to turn iOS into OSX overnight, we all know why windows tablets have failed for years. There are a few small things apple could do that would really improve the iPad experience, and that should have been done with the iPhone a couple of years ago, and with the iPad on launch.

1) Lock screen info. This has been available as a cydia (jailbroken) app for years. Basically your lock screen can update you with whatever you want. Facebook/twitter feeds, email, calender events (i.e. your next upcoming appointments), weather update, etc...

2) A drop down notifications bar. This should have been there years ago, and even if they copied android 100%, it would be 100% better than it is now. Honeycomb is going beyond THEIR old drop-down notifications bar and really sprucing up the notification system.

3) Widgets, and re-think the home screen (aka the big empty screen with a handful of massive app icons).

4) If they could unify things a bit and actually bring an improvement to iOS to try and match honeycomb, that would be great, but just doing those last 3 simple things that have basically already been done on jailbroken iPods YEARS ago, it would actually make it a much better experience. Maybe bringing their mission control concept from Lion over to iOS would be good.

Like everyone has said, apple has been really stagnant and have a very simple and crippled OS simply because they didn't HAVE to do anything. Now there is competition and they do have to do something, so hopefully they do.

Honestly, I think apple was surprised by googles Honeycomb demo's (everyone was) and didn't think they would step up and destroy iOS so badly. I bet apple thought they could get away with another incremental update this year, and now after seeing Honeycomb are scrambling to add something extra (that they should have added years ago). For this reason I doubt iOS will really 'step up to the plate' this year, simple because they were probably taken off-guard by honeycomb and were planning on continuing to screw consumers and pad their wallets as long as possible.

 

[thesmoth]

Believing that one company is evil where another is not, is really silly and shows that you just don't understand how things work. Every company has its philosophy, but above all there is one thing that everybody wants: Money.
Google has a different approach than Apple but that doesn't mean that Apple is evil. How ridiculous! Apple has a very specific philosophy which is very successful. They developed iOS based on Mac OS X and they are using it as the platform for their smartphone and tablet devices. The main reason behind that is that people who know how to use an iPhone, know how to use a tablet also. The main difference is that apps take advantage of the larger screen estate.
I find Apples reasoning to be the right one, and I am sure that in the next versions of iOS they will bring even more features in their own unique way.

I also don't get how you can already pass judgement to Honeycomb, without even using it for a couple of days. Watching a couple of videos doesn't prove anything. Just wait a bit till all these devices come out and get tested on the real world. At the moment you seem to be concentrating on Honeycombs widgets and notifications (which I also like). You don't know the whole picture.

Yes, watching the videos proves everything. You can see exactly what they are going to do, and what you will be able to do. Now there are lots of extra features that honeycomb will supposedly come with that haven't been announced yet, and those of course we'll have to wait and see.

Although the videos prove a ton, and show exactly the kinds of improvements honeycomb will bring, it doesn't prove how smooth and fluid the improvements actually be. That comes back to my previous point that since google is being so incredible ambitious in actually giving us what we WANT, it may take some time to optimize and smooth everything out. It may be that the first iteration of honeycomb does what we want, but not as well as we'd want. Then we'll have to wait for updates to fix bugs and smooth things out.

This I think is orders of magnitude better than what Apple does in giving us hardly anything we want, and using that as bait to force us into early upgrades of our hardware.

 

[mabaker]

Like everyone has said, apple has been really stagnant and have a very simple and crippled OS simply because they didn't HAVE to do anything. Now there is competition and they do have to do something, so hopefully they do.

Apple has created the competition. Everything what is happening right now is everyone copying Apple and nobody threatens them either, nt even with slick new products. You know why? Cuzz they are playing Apple’s game on Apple’s terms.

 

[petvas]

I have nothing against some competition, but after I watched Googles presentation I am still sceptical. Apple still offers the best user experience because they think about everything from A to Z. This is a big difference to Google and others who just create the OS and hope that their partners will do the rest and integrate everything. Exactly this is where the problem with Honeycomb lies. Yes, notifications are much better than in iOS, app switching looks good, widgets are for some people the greatest thing (not for me - I want a dashboard like in Mac OS X) but the whole experience isn't integrated. Apple has an ecosystem that is really tough to beat. It begins with iTunes and it goes further to the hardware design and software development that is very tightly integrated to the whole platform. The user experience is in the focus and not specific features.
The whole thread makes the mistake to just compare features. Yes, I agree that Apple has some things that must be improved but as a whole iOS is the best tablet OS.

 

[Night Spring]

Apple on the other hand, doles out small updates strictly for monetary gain, which I find more repugnant.

Yes, Apple does tend to introduce features a bit at a time. But you can't attribute it all to monetary gain. iOS firmware updates have been free, so all the improvements to the iPad we've gotten since its first release have been for free. Same with features like cut/copy and paste -- Apple didn't include it with the first iPhones, but when it finally added that feature, people with older iPhones didn't have to buy a new iPhone to get it.

So in my mind, it makes more sense to think that Apple just likes to take time perfecting features before release. They know that they can release gadgets with the minimum features possible to have them be useful, and add the extras later. And yes, sometimes the extras require new hardware (like the iPad2 probably getting cameras for FaceTime), but more often, additional features are given away for free or for a token fee via firmware updates.

 

[thesmoth]

Yes, Apple does tend to introduce features a bit at a time. But you can't attribute it all to monetary gain. iOS firmware updates have been free, so all the improvements to the iPad we've gotten since its first release have been for free. Same with features like cut/copy and paste -- Apple didn't include it with the first iPhones, but when it finally added that feature, people with older iPhones didn't have to buy a new iPhone to get it.

So in my mind, it makes more sense to think that Apple just likes to take time perfecting features before release. They know that they can release gadgets with the minimum features possible to have them be useful, and add the extras later. And yes, sometimes the extras require new hardware (like the iPad2 probably getting cameras for FaceTime), but more often, additional features are given away for free or for a token fee via firmware updates.

This is also a valid point. Apple does cripple hardware though, which gives them an excuse to exclude products from future updates. I'm sure the iPad will get the full version of iOS5, but I would be willing to bet that it will get a cripple version of iOS6 due to it's tiny 256 megs of ram (probably something apple has planned from day 1).

 

[petvas]

I cannot say that Apple plans not to include a specific hardware version from a software update. I think that they are trying to make a good software experience for all hardware devices supported.