New iBook and Mac mini Part Numbers?

[aegisdesign]

Yes they can, and they will. iLife has everything the targeted buyer needs. Third-party apps run in emulation for the time being. If you have unusual needs, you can also install Windows, for which there are numerous third party apps, I believe. This is very comforting for the switcher psyche.

Not strictly true. iTunes (you may of heard of that) isn't a Cocoa app yet and so isn't compiled as a universal. A lot of the bundle you currently get on the Mini won't run either - AppleWorks, the two games you get. IIRC Creative Suite, MS Office and the Macromedia suite are all carbon still too so that's a fair chunk of the Mac's most common software that wouldn't run at full speed on an Intel Mac.

I'm sure Apple would want more than some of iLife, iWork and Stone's Imaginator.

 

[Panoctopi]

You present all of this as fact. Is this meant to be inside information? Or is this just speculation?

Intel Macs in August '05, i'd put my money that it's speculative wishful thinking.

 

[$MacUser$]

This is kind of an aside, but I am a potential switcher in need of some guidance. I really like the top of the range powerbook, and am about to order one. Is the chip it contains still a contender in the high end notebook market? I was able to take one home for a weekend as a demo and although it was very intuitive, it was a bit slower than I had expected. I realize I am paying somewhat for the Apple name and its software, as well as the great engineering...i also get a student discount. Is a top powerbook, considering these options, worth it compared to a Wintel book? Is the 1.67 GHz G4 truly in the same arena as the pentiums and centrinos, or is this just the Reality Distortion Field warping our minds? It would kill me to get a windows box, but it just seems like the current powerbook is highway robbery. Tell me Im wrong...

 

[mgargan1]

freescale's new 7448 G4 will be ready to roll in oct. so Apple could put a faster G4 7447 in the ibook now, and not completely destroy the powerbook sales. I dunno if anyone mentioned this, I didn't read every post... but a big selling point for the powerbook is it's velocity sensor... great feature

http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps...ncsg/06-20-05_MPC7448.html&title=News Release

 

[manu chao]

Yes they can, and they will. iLife has everything the targeted buyer needs. Third-party apps run in emulation for the time being. If you have unusual needs, you can also install Windows, for which there are numerous third party apps, I believe. This is very comforting for the switcher psyche.

So, let's ask the users of this forum, a lot of whoom have confessed to either owning an iBook or a Mac mini or to be thinking about buying one, about how much of them do not use any third party software?

Installing Windows will most likely be possible, but it will probably be a bit of a hack (maybe not more so than installing Windows on a self-build computer) but even that is completely beside the point.
Who in their right mind would buy a Mac and then run Windows on it, there are enough Wintels out there to choose from, what would be the incentive (design alone?)? And don't tell me that you could boot between OS X and Windows. Nobody kept or keeps booting between OS 9 and OS X constantly or between Linux and Windows, you settle for one OS and only boot on rare occasions in other OS to do what you cannot do in your primary one (and every time you do this, you curse your primary OS for not being able to do with it all you want).

 

[milozauckerman]

Very good prediction... but I think it'll be a little less generous:

iBooks
13.3" Widescreen TFT Display
1.33GHz PowerPC G4
512K L2 cache @1.33GHz
1280x800 resolution (see this notebook for comparison)
512MB DDR266 SDRAM
40GB Ultra ATA Drive
Combo Drive
NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200 (64MB DDR)
AirPort Extreme built-in
$999.00

This would be veeeeery tempting at $949 (student discount) for taking to campus and on the off-chance I get to take a vacation sometime in this millenium. Up the RAM to 1.5GB and this is more than enough to handle 90% of my (fairly average) needs until Rev. B Intel machines come out.

A 40GB drive isn't overwhelming, but it's enough to use as a photo dump, project transport, and carry a few cherished MP3s. If it were a primary machine, maybe we're talking something different.

I don't understand the clamor for SuperDrives - I've burned a DVD twice for archival purposes since 2002, once when switching to Panther and once when switching to my new G5. If I were doing video work, I wouldn't be doing it on an iBook.

 

[aegisdesign]

freescale's new 7448 G4 will be ready to roll in oct. so Apple could put a faster G4 7447 in the ibook now, and not completely destroy the powerbook sales. I dunno if anyone mentioned this, I didn't read every post... but a big selling point for the powerbook is it's velocity sensor... great feature

http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps...ncsg/06-20-05_MPC7448.html&title=News Release

Can anyone remember when the 7447A was announced and when did Apple ship the first 7447A Powerbook?

I'm sure it was months before Freescale said it would be and Apple shipped faster than Freescale shipped. Even now Freescale only list the top clockspeed as 1.42Ghz when Apple is shipping 1.5 and 1.67Ghz 7447As.

Secondly, over on the MorphOS forum - it's a replacement PPC Amiga - they've been quoting the 7448 as being available for sampling since February.

Here's a thread from May with a real live 7448 CPU card running ...

http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3515&forum=2


So, I wouldn't necessarily go off of those dates given in that press release. ;-)

I think we may see the 7448 in the iBook update. PowerBook sales are screwed anyway so why drag down the iBook with them too, especially during the Back to School season.

 

[hottyson]

Who in their right mind would buy a Mac and then run Windows on it, there are enough Wintels out there to choose from, what would be the incentive (design alone?)?

GAMERS of course.

 

[bbyrdhouse]

I think it would be nice to build a place to put a block of ice on the bottom of the Powerbook. Geez!... this thing is hot 124 degrees!

Let me change that to 141 degrees according to my Dashboard widget thermometer.

 

[AidenShaw]

Is the 1.67 GHz G4 truly in the same arena as the pentiums and centrinos, or is this just the Reality Distortion Field warping our minds? It would kill me to get a windows box, but it just seems like the current powerbook is highway robbery. Tell me Im wrong...

Hmmmm. Nobody's telling you that you are wrong.

If you've been reading these forums since the Intel switcher announcement (or even before), you'll have read many posts that say that the Centrino (AKA Pentium M) chip is really quite good. Great performance, miserly power consumption.... Many posts argue that the Intel switch isn't about getting Pentiums in Powermacs, but about getting Centrinos in 'books.

A Centrino laptop might have a 533 MHz memory bus with DDR2 memory, PCI Express graphics, SATA hard drives, and other specs that make the PB look rather old fashioned.

If money isn't an issue, or if your main applications really benefit from AltiVec, a G4 'book now can be a good deal. Realize, though, that in a few months (probably what you can count on your fingers without using your thumbs) you'll be able to get a Centrino running OSX.

If you've got the cash to burn, get the G4 now and the Centrino then....

 

[bbyrdhouse]

Aha now i know why it takes such a long time to burn DVDs on mt dual 1.8 G5!!

Geez! I just ordered a dual 2.7 Powermac, I sure hope that it can burn disks faster than my 2.4 P4 Dell or I will have alot of explaining to do.

 

[hob]

Geez! I just ordered a dual 2.7 Powermac, I sure hope that it can burn disks faster than my 2.4 P4 Dell or I will have alot of explaining to do.

I wouldn't worry if I were you

What I'm worried about is WHY are there FOURTEEN PAGES on this subject already. Have we become THAT interested about speed bumps?! If it was a brand new iPod or... Universal remote... or iTivo or something... I could understand it, but this just seems to be pages and pages of peoples shopping listes

 

[powerbook911]

This is kind of an aside, but I am a potential switcher in need of some guidance. I really like the top of the range powerbook, and am about to order one. Is the chip it contains still a contender in the high end notebook market? I was able to take one home for a weekend as a demo and although it was very intuitive, it was a bit slower than I had expected. I realize I am paying somewhat for the Apple name and its software, as well as the great engineering...i also get a student discount. Is a top powerbook, considering these options, worth it compared to a Wintel book? Is the 1.67 GHz G4 truly in the same arena as the pentiums and centrinos, or is this just the Reality Distortion Field warping our minds? It would kill me to get a windows box, but it just seems like the current powerbook is highway robbery. Tell me Im wrong...

In my opinion, it is not highway robbery. It is a very capable machine, and you are given a lot of features, for the price. Is the 1.67 GHZ G4 as good as a equal speed Pentium -M? Nope. The Pentium-M is definitely better. However, that doesn't mean you should get a Windows notebook.

The great engineering of OS X makes a lot of your tasks on the Powerbook quicker than a Windows machine, even if the Windows machine has a faster processor. Where the PC's high-class processor might show through is if you were doing some intense video and imaging work. I have a fast Windows PC, but my Powerbook still smokes it, when it comes to opening applications, including Photoshop.

Finally, in the "energy saver," there is an "options" tab, which is usually set at Automatic or Reduced. I always have mine on "highest," and it makes a tremendous difference, in the speed of the machine. I really wish the default Apple configuration would put the CPU on "highest" performance, and the battery setting on Automatic, for a lot of people might miss out on what the machine is capable of achieving.

Finally, for the price, you get a lot with a Powerbook. Gigabit ethernet, bluetooth built-in, airport built-in, superdrive, beautiful aluminium case, reliability, the software, fantastic video output options to external displays, firewire 800, card slot, etc.

 

[manu chao]

GAMERS of course.

I unfortunately never got addicted to this kind leisure activities and therefore probably constantly underestimate the effort people might be willing to undertake to be able to play their games.

Still, these people would certainly prefer not having to boot into a different OS just to play their games. I used to play an OS 9 game occasionally, it never really ran in Classic but it would have never occurred to me to boot into OS 9 just to play it (OS 9 feels so old, quitting and reopening all (usually ~15) apps in OS X, having to reboot to to check Mail, access your bookmarks, all your open files would be such a hassle).

I need Windows occasionally (one command line apps runs fine and fast enough in VPC), but I even rather use RDC or Timbuktu or VPC than just start up the Windows laptop that is also sitting on my desk.

Rebooting is for people who don't really use their computer, who can afford having to restart programs, reopen files etc.. Imagine a hybrid car where one would have to stop to switch from electricity to fuel.

 

[digitalbiker]

What about pro software?

Naaaa. Odds wise I'm seeing least likely to most.....

• G5 PowerBooks in September (Not going to happen. Period.)
• Intel PowerBooks in September. (Highly doubtful)
• Freescale popin replacement chip PowerBooks in September. (Lets say 40% chance.)
• Intel PowerBooks launching at MW in January with a release within the month. (40%? That sounds like a good number.)
• Intel PowerBooks launching at MW in January with a release within 3 months. (Ummm I'm going to go 60/40% on that one.)
• Intel PowerBooks by WWDC 2006. (I'd bet a paycheck on it.)

Or maybe not. The only ones I'm sure of is the top and the bottem ones. Everything else is up for speculation grabs.

Everyone that is predicting early (as in WWDC 06 intel powerbooks) keep forgetting about software. Yes it may be possible for Apple to build a dual core intel PB to announce at WWDC 06 but it would be a sales flop.

Who in their right mind is going to drop over 3 grand for a laptop that runs OSX and iLife. Most PB users are power users and use expensive pro software. Almost all of which will require major re-writes to go x86 native.

On the other hand, centrino based ibooks and mac minis at WWDC 06 would be a sales success. Most of the consumer users run very little else but iLife apps and OSX. What non-native x86 apps they do want to run could most likely be run in rossetta for a non-pro user.

A power user would have a fit if they were required to use an emulator to run a $1000.00 piece of software.

 

[rickvanr]

Everyone that is predicting early (as in WWDC 06 intel powerbooks) keep forgetting about software. Yes it may be possible for Apple to build a dual core intel PB to announce at WWDC 06 but it would be a sales flop.

Who in their right mind is going to drop over 3 grand for a laptop that runs OSX and iLife. Most PB users are power users and use expensive pro software. Almost all of which will require major re-writes to go x86 native.

On the other hand, centrino based ibooks and mac minis at WWDC 06 would be a sales success. Most of the consumer users run very little else but iLife apps and OSX. What non-native x86 apps they do want to run could most likely be run in rossetta for a non-pro user.

A power user would have a fit if they were required to use an emulator to run a $1000.00 piece of software.

Rosetta is supposed to be pretty decent. The iBook will 'never' have better specs then the PowerBook, never, ever, ever, never ever. Why can't people comprehend this.

 

[manu chao]

Rosetta is supposed to be pretty decent. The iBook will 'never' have better specs then the PowerBook, never, ever, ever, never ever. Why can't people comprehend this.

So, what is your conclusion? Everybody seems to agree that G4 based products need to go first, because they lag behind the most. Will Powerbooks and iBooks switch to Intel at around the same time, between March and June 06, or will the Powerbooks go first and iBooks get one last G4 update at around the same time?

And will there be a commercially available Mactel before the Powerbooks (to speed-up software development, some critical mass might be necessary to force developers to hurry up)? Could it be the Mac mini (it would not cannibalize Powerbook sales directly)?

 

[powerbook911]

Everyone that is predicting early (as in WWDC 06 intel powerbooks) keep forgetting about software. Yes it may be possible for Apple to build a dual core intel PB to announce at WWDC 06 but it would be a sales flop.

Who in their right mind is going to drop over 3 grand for a laptop that runs OSX and iLife. Most PB users are power users and use expensive pro software. Almost all of which will require major re-writes to go x86 native.

On the other hand, centrino based ibooks and mac minis at WWDC 06 would be a sales success. Most of the consumer users run very little else but iLife apps and OSX. What non-native x86 apps they do want to run could most likely be run in rossetta for a non-pro user.

A power user would have a fit if they were required to use an emulator to run a $1000.00 piece of software.

First off, there are no Powerbooks today that coast $3000.00, so I do not see why an intel Powerbook would be over 3 grand.

Next, Apple is obviously going to have all of their production suite software ready for Intel, so that takes a good group of people. Next, Adobe is obviously going to have the Creative Suite ready, for the intel architecture. By June of next year, *most* of what people need, will be compiled for both PowerPC and intel.

 

[tikibangout]

First off, there are no Powerbooks today that coast $3000.00, so I do not see why an intel Powerbook would be over 3 grand.

Next, Apple is obviously going to have all of their production suite software ready for Intel, so that takes a good group of people. Next, Adobe is obviously going to have the Creative Suite ready, for the intel architecture. By June of next year, *most* of what people need, will be compiled for both PowerPC and intel.

Not $3000 but close to it. The 17" is $2699. And you'll probably want a couple upgrades with that.

 

[rickvanr]

So, what is your conclusion? Everybody seems to agree that G4 based products need to go first, because they lag behind the most. Will Powerbooks and iBooks switch to Intel at around the same time, between March and June 06, or will the Powerbooks go first and iBooks get one last G4 update at around the same time?

And will there be a commercially available Mactel before the Powerbooks (to speed-up software development, some critical mass might be necessary to force developers to hurry up)? Could it be the Mac mini (it would not cannibalize Powerbook sales directly)?

The iMac will never be a better equipped machine then a PowerMac, and an iBook will never be a better equipped machine then a PowerBook.

They very well could both go intel at the same time, but the PowerBook will sport better specs.

Developers just found out about this a month ago. No intel macs until 2006 at least, existing machines will just get speed bumps (maybe a new PPC chip) and other goodies until then.

 

[digitalbiker]

Rosetta is supposed to be pretty decent. The iBook will 'never' have better specs then the PowerBook, never, ever, ever, never ever. Why can't people comprehend this.

Rosetta will not run AltiVec apps "pretty decent". In fact some AltiVec apps won't run at all. Most pro apps (especially video, 3D modelling, and sound processing apps) ie "The Primary niche market for Apple pro users" use AltiVec. Therefore an intel centrino based PB will not sell well as Power Users will not be able to use Rosetta to run pro apps and it would be an insult if Apple even expected them to.

How do you know that the ibook would have better specs? The PB could be Freescale dual core with much better performance than the ibook or it might be low power G5 clocked to about 2 ghz, 64 bit, I think that would out perform a standard centrino ibook.

What's your point?

 

[tikibangout]

Now however you order the iBook its 3-5 business days to ship. This is fishy.

 

[Rootman]

Now however you order the iBook its 3-5 business days to ship. This is fishy.

Minis too. (Both of the new i686 Macs.)

 

[MikeLord]

I wouldn't worry if I were you

What I'm worried about is WHY are there FOURTEEN PAGES on this subject already. Have we become THAT interested about speed bumps?! If it was a brand new iPod or... Universal remote... or iTivo or something... I could understand it, but this just seems to be pages and pages of peoples shopping listes

Hey, we're enjoying ourselves.

 

[digitalbiker]

First off, there are no Powerbooks today that coast $3000.00, so I do not see why an intel Powerbook would be over 3 grand.

Next, Apple is obviously going to have all of their production suite software ready for Intel, so that takes a good group of people. Next, Adobe is obviously going to have the Creative Suite ready, for the intel architecture. By June of next year, *most* of what people need, will be compiled for both PowerPC and intel.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that an intel PB would cost more. My PowerBook configs usually cost more than 3 grand so that is the number I used. Of course I always get Apple Care and pay sales tax.

I think the reality distortion field is getting to you when it comes to what apps will be ready in one year. It will take 18 - 24 months for most pro apps to finally transition to intel mac universal binaries.