New iBook and Mac mini Part Numbers?

[uv23]

One big thing I still haven't seen answered:

I have a friend with a concern. Let's call him Joe. Joe has a PPC Mac. Joe bought third party apps for his Mac, including Adobe CS, Word, and other such goodies. Joe buys an Intel Mac to replace his ailing PPC. Will Joe be provided with free Intel binaries for the apps he has already bought or will he be stuck running in emulation mode until he re-buys Intel versions of his apps? If the former, great. If the latter, I can't express how bad that would be.

 

[xrayzed]

I would. By being able to dual boot, I would be able to only carry one machine, instead of 2 or 3. I run very specialized software, some of which is only available on Windows...

I would be happy to carry only one machine, and boot between OSX and Windoze as neccessary...

Likewise. I have to run Win-only software for work, and being able to get away with a single machine would be fabulous.

 

[animefan_1]

One big thing I still haven't seen answered:

I have a friend with a concern. Let's call him Joe. Joe has a PPC Mac. Joe bought third party apps for his Mac, including Adobe CS, Word, and other such goodies. Joe buys an Intel Mac to replace his ailing PPC. Will Joe be provided with free Intel binaries for the apps he has already bought or will he be stuck running in emulation mode until he re-buys Intel versions of his apps? If the former, great. If the latter, I can't express how bad that would be.

It depends on the company. Adobe and Microsoft will most likely make the user buy the new version for the Intel-powered Mac. Smaller companies may not. For something like Office, emulation won't be a problem. For Adobe software, it will be - unless your an upgrade whore who will buy the latest version regardless of necessity.

 

[fredwards]

One big thing I still haven't seen answered:

I have a friend with a concern. Let's call him Joe. Joe has a PPC Mac. Joe bought third party apps for his Mac, including Adobe CS, Word, and other such goodies. Joe buys an Intel Mac to replace his ailing PPC. Will Joe be provided with free Intel binaries for the apps he has already bought or will he be stuck running in emulation mode until he re-buys Intel versions of his apps? If the former, great. If the latter, I can't express how bad that would be.

i dont think joe would get free software that is native to the new intel systems. Thats why they have efficient emulation programs and they will probably launch the universal binary software with updated versions of the programs so its like a new piece of software. Maybe you could upgrade for a small fee or something. But I reallllly dont thinkanyone should expect free software for all their owned apps coming to them .. that seems kind of unrealistic....

i dunno i cant really answer in fact, just my perception of what i think the answer to your question will be ... time will tell i guess

 

[uv23]

As efficient as emulation software may be, apps will still run considerably slower. So assuming the "no free rides" model of x86 binaries for existing customers, a Mac user is faced with having to dish out potentially thousands of dollars just to have his shiny new Intel Mac run as fast as his older PPC Mac, even though it has better hardware. Oi. I'm getting heartburn just thinking about it. At least the Mini I'll be buying -- I mean, Joe will be buying -- after this update will still be PPC (most likely, anyway).

 

[BGil]

so tell me the truth, how many of you were part of the same macult that killed Intel for years saying "PowerPC is better then anything Intel" etc. etc. etc. even after centrino's came forth in mobile lines. I have a friend currently who is so blinded by his maccultist that he says that his current 1.33 ghz PPC G4 chip in his 14" iBook is better then any centrino or PC chip. I'm suprised nobody in this room seems this intense in the mac cult. Or were you once, until jobs announced the switch and then "changed your mind" about intel because "jobs is god" and if he says so, its truth? Not trying to sound mean, but my friend can really get carried away with his over-the-top-mac-bias (IMHO). I own a mac, I love my mac, but I can't stand my friends blatent blindness and maccultist personality. I was hoping for the intel switch long before it was announced or reported as a strong-rumor on CNET and Wall Street Journal etc. That being said, I'm still rejoicing for the intel switch, although I kind of admire my friend for holding his view of "IBM PPC processors are far better then anything Intel makes" instead of being like some other mac cultist who all of a sudden have a change of tune and change of heart... How many of you never did the whole "PPC are better then intel chips" "my G3 is better then your centrino!" etc. etc. etc. and other outrageous claims? Then how many of you "switched" your point of view magically as of WWDC '05? Just curious and hoping for some honesty. But if you honestly always have hoped for intel chips and ditching IBM's PPC line, then you're my kind of macfan!

Not many people hear are going to admit that. You can go back in these forums and see many people doing exactly what you're talking about. people here denounced flash players as insignificant (even though they have always dominated the market) until Jobs announced one. Lots of people here denounced x86 unitl jobs announced the switch too. Look at the threads about the switch-- the ones that appeared when it was still a rumor. You'll see a ton of people saying it was a horrible idea aand whatnot. Then look at the reaction after the WWDC and the tone had changed.

The Maccult are often blinded by their proximity to the Jobs RDF.

 

[Yvan256]

Not many people hear are going to admit that. You can go back in these forums and see many people doing exactly what you're talking about. people here denounced flash players as insignificant (even though they have always dominated the market) until Jobs announced one. Lots of people here denounced x86 unitl jobs announced the switch too. Look at the threads about the switch-- the ones that appeared when it was still a rumor. You'll see a ton of people saying it was a horrible idea aand whatnot. Then look at the reaction after the WWDC and the tone had changed.

The Maccult are often blinded by their proximity to the Jobs RDF.

If you recall, Steve actually joked about the capacity of flash players, not the flash itself. And what did they come up with? 512MB and 1GB flash players, when most of the competition was still offering 256MB as the average. Steve didn't contradict himself about this.

As for x86, I still say it's a huge pile of crap compared to PPC. The design of PPC is "pure" while x86 is a patch of a patch of a patch (etc) from the 4-bit days.

I just hope the new Intel CPUs can put this legacy crap aside and run from a new clean core or something.

 

[MikeAtari]

Let's get a few things straight...

so tell me the truth, how many of you were part of the same macult that killed Intel for years saying "PowerPC is better then anything Intel" etc. etc. etc. even after centrino's came forth in mobile lines. I have a friend currently who is so blinded by his maccultist that he says that his current 1.33 ghz PPC G4 chip in his 14" iBook is better then any centrino or PC chip. I'm suprised nobody in this room seems this intense in the mac cult. Or were you once, until jobs announced the switch and then "changed your mind" about intel because "jobs is god" and if he says so, its truth? Not trying to sound mean, but my friend can really get carried away with his over-the-top-mac-bias (IMHO). I own a mac, I love my mac, but I can't stand my friends blatent blindness and maccultist personality. I was hoping for the intel switch long before it was announced or reported as a strong-rumor on CNET and Wall Street Journal etc. That being said, I'm still rejoicing for the intel switch, although I kind of admire my friend for holding his view of "IBM PPC processors are far better then anything Intel makes" instead of being like some other mac cultist who all of a sudden have a change of tune and change of heart... How many of you never did the whole "PPC are better then intel chips" "my G3 is better then your centrino!" etc. etc. etc. and other outrageous claims? Then how many of you "switched" your point of view magically as of WWDC '05? Just curious and hoping for some honesty. But if you honestly always have hoped for intel chips and ditching IBM's PPC line, then you're my kind of macfan!

I'd like to know JUST WHAT do you admire about intel's current line?
Only the Pentium M stands out.
- You like Intel's HOT P4?, that apparently was just a "Sucker" machine?
Double the Mhz and cut in HALF the work done per cycle: Requiring Double the mhz to just Match the performance of a PIII?

IBM's G5 is an excellent processor with 32regs and a clean architecture.
The G4 has a freggen 7 stage pipeline! and still they've gotten it up to 1.67 mhz. If the G4 had bigger L2 and L3 caches plus Apple compiled a version just for it, it would fly.

It comes down to investment cost to build a better laptop chip then the G4.
I'd still like to see a Dual Core G4 Powerbook.

But, a DualCore 64bit PM from Intel will have to do.

Secondly, Hasn't Intel been technically behind AMD for at least 4 years now? Isn't Intel only holding on because of Process expertise?

 

[Yvan256]

ok. i am intrigued. aside from special software (d'uh). what exactly can one do on windows, that one can't! do on the mac?

Rename, move and delete files from a "open/save file" dialog box.

(and yes, that's really bothering me and is something I miss from my Windows box - but that's about the only thing).

 

[SmileyDude]

While I agree that the modem is largely useless for a lot of us there are still folks on dial up, we have to spare them a thought.
However, why you would want to replace it with a DSL modem????!!! Give me cable every time. When DSL can compete with this I might change my mind.

DSL is dead -- Fiber is the future. Verizon never even offered DSL in my neighborhood. Well, they offered the crappy 128kbps package, but never true DSL. Cable was getting 3mbps, apparently now it's 6mbps. But, for the same price, Verizon now offers 15mbps/2mbps fiber connection.

As for the modem, here is my suggestion -- go back to the old PowerBook design of having one port be both ethernet and modem. Usually, people use one or the other -- not both. So, there is really no need to take up the space of two ports when one will do. Honestly, given the choice, I would prefer 2 ethernet ports over the 1 ethernet/1 modem port on the mini -- but, I'm probably in the minority on that one. So, do the next best thing, combine the two, and use that space for something else

 

[BGil]

If you recall, Steve actually joked about the capacity of flash players, not the flash itself. And what did they come up with? 512MB and 1GB flash players, when most of the competition was still offering 256MB as the average. Steve didn't contradict himself about this.

As for x86, I still say it's a huge pile of crap compared to PPC. The design of PPC is "pure" while x86 is a patch of a patch of a patch (etc) from the 4-bit days.

I just hope the new Intel CPUs can put this legacy crap aside and run from a new clean core or something.

Flash players had long ago reached 512 as the average size. Take for example iRiver: There 512 and 1GB players had been selling for 2-3 years before the shuffle showed up.

IMO, PPC is kinda like Yao Ming. More bark than bite. AMD produces processors with better IPC, better overall performance, and cooler temps than IBM has done. They went 64-bit first, HT first, dual core first, integrated memory controller first, DDR first and they didn't hit the "90nm wall" that Intel and IBM hit (despite Jobs comments to the contrary). AMD's 90nm procs run cooler than their 130 nm parts.
Their dual core parts are faster than two single core Opterons. Single core AMD64's often beat dual processor PowerMacs.
Even Intel P4's were looking good before the Prescott showed up. Northwoods ran very cool and even made good notebook processors. Hyperthreading is quite nice and can make a big difference in multitaksing abilities.

So far PPC procs have only proven that they are cheaper to make (G4 and G5).

The Athlon XP has a 9 or 10 stage pipeline, right? IIRC it goes up to about 2.4ghz.

I'd like to know JUST WHAT do you admire about intel's current line?

The Northwood is still a great processor. It goes up to 3.2ghz IIRC.

But, a DualCore 64bit PM from Intel will have to do.

Good luck finding on ein the next 3 years. The Yonah is only 32-bit and it's very very expensive to make, like all Pentium M's are. I don't buy the theory that Mac Mini's are going to ship with Yonah's. If a rather average 1.6ghz Pentium M currently costs over $200US then I expect the dual core Yonah to cost almost twice that. If the processor costs $350 minimum then the chances of getting one in a Mac Mini for less than $900 is very slim. Likewise, Yonahs won't be as cool as Dothan's or Alviso's-based Pentium M's. I doubt they'll even make it into Powerbooks or iBooks for a longtime. I bet Apple ships Mini's PB's, and iBooks with Celeron M's, Dothan's, and Alviso's much to the dissapointment of Mac users everywehere. Even all of those procs are much more expensive than the current G4's they use so expect a price hike (or less features for the same price) too.

 

[Hiroshige]

I couldn't read all the posts, so I apologize if this has been mentioned.
I wonder if the person who goofed and released the part numbers still has a job at Apple.

 

[~Shard~]

DSL is dead -- Fiber is the future. Verizon never even offered DSL in my neighborhood. Well, they offered the crappy 128kbps package, but never true DSL. Cable was getting 3mbps, apparently now it's 6mbps. But, for the same price, Verizon now offers 15mbps/2mbps fiber connection.

I work for a SP - trust me, DSL is not dead. Currently we drive 8 Mbps+ to the home over basic DSL, offering a variety of speed packages including our digital TV over DSL service which pumps 3 Mbps to each of two STBs and still leaves a couple Mbps left over (minimum) for Internet. We are currently in the process of lowering our loop lengths to 800-900m and moving to ADSL 2+/VDSL which will drive roughly 20 Mbps to the home, which translates to greater speeds, more STBs, and HD content for our TV service. This is also an enabler for our FTTH project which will be complete in the next 3-5 years. Luckily, we won't have quite the high capital cost (relatively) as other providers since we have one of the most extensive fiber networks in the world (built before anyone else in the world too I might add!)

So in some respects, DSL is becoming more of an enabler and set of first steps towards fiber, which of course is the ideal ultimate solution, but in no means is DSL dead.

 

[aquajet]

Problem is, the 12" PowerBook lacks a LOT of those "PowerBook features" you just mentionned (and you forgot PCcard slot).

Yeah I agree. There really isn't a whole lot of difference between the current 12" iBooks and PowerBooks, not enough to warrant a $400 price increase IMO. If the 12" PowerBook had those things like backlit keyboard, Firewire 800, digital audio, 128 vram and maybe even Superdrive standard across the PowerBook line, that would really balance things out. Having said that, I still love mine.

 

[SiliconAddict]

I'd be suprised if they didn't have them running on Intel already, internally.

See I was thinking the same thing but if so why didn't Jobs demo FCP running on the X86? It’s such a major app you would think that would be one of the core apps he would have demoed. I think that Apple's pro apps are so tied to the PPC chip that I'm wondering if its a serious PITA for them to convert the apps. However I have no doubt that in 6-8 months it will be done.

 

[wnameth]

Yeah I agree. There really isn't a whole lot of difference between the current 12" iBooks and PowerBooks, not enough to warrant a $400 price increase IMO. If the 12" PowerBook had those things like backlit keyboard, Firewire 800, digital audio, 128 vram and maybe even Superdrive standard across the PowerBook line, that would really balance things out. Having said that, I still love mine.

I disagree, there is quite a big difference, the bus speed, the case, the HD (that is one of the major things) and the overall difference between them.

 

[SiliconAddict]

But Apple also said Apple to Use Intel Microprocessors Beginning in 2006. That shrinks your time window to 1/06-6/06. I'm expecting them start at MWSF.

Oh don't get me wrong. I don't think Apple would release any x86 hardware this year. I was just pointing out the “possible” timeframe. Even if some of its x86 hardware is done right now its too early.
Yah I know that somewhat contradicts what I previously said. It’s a tough position Apple is in. They can't release hardware only a couple months after the announcement. That would SERIOUSLY piss off their developer base. But they can’t way forever and let their laptop line wither any further then it already has. What is the magic number for the first shipping Macintel? My guess still stands at MW in January. That gives developers a good solid 7 months to get their stuff up to par. But 3 months? 4 months? I just don't think Apple would do it this early. With one possible exception. If they see sales totally TANK from the Osborne effect but in that case they would have to overreact...eugh....too many variables involved here.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Thank you, Jesus.
(Had to say it.)

Isn't it thank you Jebus..... Sorry I had to say that....

And if you don't get Jebus you don't watch enough Simpsons

 

[finalcoolman]

As for weight, the Dell I've got uses some incredibly cheap, lightweight case plastics, and I suspect same for the Sony.

I'll gladly pay another half-pound penalty for the rugged, quality polycarb case Apple uses.
QUOTE]

Umm, should I point out to you that Sony has the best quality PC laptops, definantly the best build quality after the Panasonic toughbooks. My old Sony R505GCP1 laptop had the best quality I've ever seen in ANY laptop. Much better than the Powerbooks build quality. Instead of using Aluminum, Sony chose to use Magnesium which is much more durable to denting and does not warp. The quality of it kicks the crap out of ANY laptop that Apple ever made, not to mention it was made in Japan instead of China. Too bad it was stolen Now I'm using this &%^&$ G3 iBook chilling around waiting for the new iBook. Even if I still had that Sony laptop, I'd still be buying the new iBook, cause I like Apple for laptops due to OS X but that R505 is so nice, so thin and sexy, much sexier than any Powerbook

 

[rickvanr]

Umm, should I point out to you that Sony has the best quality PC laptops, definantly the best build quality after the Panasonic toughbooks. My old Sony R505GCP1 laptop had the best quality I've ever seen in ANY laptop. Much better than the Powerbooks build quality. Instead of using Aluminum, Sony chose to use Magnesium which is much more durable to denting and does not warp. The quality of it kicks the crap out of ANY laptop that Apple ever made, not to mention it was made in Japan instead of China. Too bad it was stolen Now I'm using this &%^&$ G3 iBook chilling around waiting for the new iBook. Even if I still had that Sony laptop, I'd still be buying the new iBook, cause I like Apple for laptops due to OS X but that R505 is so nice, so thin and sexy, much sexier than any Powerbook

My tibook is still in great shape 3 years later. It also looks a million times better then the ugly picture you attached, and oh yah, it has the optical drive built in.

 

[$MacUser$]

Yea, not to be a bubble burster, but my buddy has the laptop you are speaking of and it looks like butt next to my 17 Powerbook.

In regards to what that guy was saying a few posts back...I'd **** myself if they put celerons in the Powerbook. I hate, hate, hate celerons...the day I'm limited to celerons from mac is the day I go back to the Win. world.

 

[Plecky]

I don't THINK they'll see a osbourne effect prior to the back-to-school season especially on there "new" iBooks coming out soon w/the free iPod mini deal, I see that attracting my college classmates big time. But maybe when it reaches closer to the expected time and thinksecret, appleinsider, etc. start reporting what they believe to be "very accurate inside information" in regards to intel inside macs, then I think the osbourne effect could take full throttle. I'm sure the die hard PPC Macsters might pick up the last newest/greatest PPC version of the machine they want prior to the switch to intel, but I think the commonfolk and switchers/soon-to-be-switchers will wait the month or two or tree for the intel mac. So right now I don't see a osbourne effect, although come closer to MWSF I wouldn't be suprised to see it. But then again, that's why Apple's got the iPod right? If or when the osbourne effect occurs nearer to the begginning or mid-2006, they can whip out that speculated viPod (or iPod Philm as I like to call it). Releasing that just in time for the christmas season guarentees a good sesason for apple in my eyes even if there's a osbourne effect for people not buying and waiting to hear/see new macs @ MWSF. Then again if none are announced at MWSF or any updates, then that affect may way until closer to June's Developers Conference before occuring. Then again, huge sales - free iPod Mini with Purchase promotions - etc. could help also keep osbourne effect at bay. No doubt Apple will be fine, even if they just continue riding the coattails of a 5th-Gen iPod and new Shuffle/Mini/etc. models. But maybe even the months leading up to the big transition they'll still pull out good sales of their notebooks/desktops (more likely desktops in my opinion because I also believe the notebooks along with the Mini, and eMac, will be the first to switch) Powermacs and iMacs will probably be the ones to switch closer to that 2007 deadline, but we'll see how it all goes... I love rumors/speculations/and this forum!

 

[tsk]

Oh don't get me wrong. I don't think Apple would release any x86 hardware this year. I was just pointing out the “possible” timeframe. Even if some of its x86 hardware is done right now its too early.
Yah I know that somewhat contradicts what I previously said. It’s a tough position Apple is in. They can't release hardware only a couple months after the announcement. That would SERIOUSLY piss off their developer base. But they can’t way forever and let their laptop line wither any further then it already has. What is the magic number for the first shipping Macintel? My guess still stands at MW in January. That gives developers a good solid 7 months to get their stuff up to par. But 3 months? 4 months? I just don't think Apple would do it this early. With one possible exception. If they see sales totally TANK from the Osborne effect but in that case they would have to overreact...eugh....too many variables involved here.

Well, one thing I think they'll do will be to announce the new Intel units before they ship. I suspect we may see some announcement in January and not have them shipping till April or something. Sort of give the developers another kick in the butt to tell them they better be done by then.

 

[Doctor Q]

Rename, move and delete files from a "open/save file" dialog box.

That bugs me too, but I have a better suggestion for Apple. Do away with open and save dialog boxes and let people use regular Finder windows, spring-loaded folders, Exposé, and even Spotlight to find where they want to open or save a file. We already have all these nice navigation features, but we can't use them while we're stuck in that modal dialog box. I'm waiting for Steve to contact me and ask for more details so they ca leapfrog Windows and do away with that ancient design.

 

[SiliconAddict]

My tibook is still in great shape 3 years later. It also looks a million times better then the ugly picture you attached, and oh yah, it has the optical drive built in.

Built in smilt in. Who cares. Without the ultrabay my X31 thinkpad is smaller then even the 12" PowerBook. I almost never use the optical drive. So IMHO I have a leg up on Apple laptops. I can make my laptop smaller and more portable. How are you going to do that with a PowerBook without going all Frankenstin on its butt? At least I and the Sony user have the option. Better to have the option then not. Apparently it has gone from Think Different to Think Close-minded.