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rickvanr said:
My tibook is still in great shape 3 years later. It also looks a million times better then the ugly picture you attached, and oh yah, it has the optical drive built in.

$MacUser$ said:
Yea, not to be a bubble burster, but my buddy has the laptop you are speaking of and it looks like butt next to my 17 Powerbook.

:rolleyes:

Got to love closed minded, blind Mac followers. That's probably the biggest thing I hate about Apple and Macs. Not the fact the older specs, not the fact that all there stuff is made in China, but the cult.

There are advantages of not having an optical drive built in. Loss of weight, thinner form factor. I basiclly used it to type documents for school, so I did not need no optical drive on the go. And since my G3 was still new back then (maybe it came later, I don't remember), if I needed it I could use my G3 for playing DVDs on the go. And the dock not only gives you an optical drive. There is also a floppy in there and full array of ports, from legacy ports, to networking and modem ports to USB. So you can keep everything plugged into the dock and once you dock the computer, everythings already plugged in. And how can you compare the looks of a 12" laptop to a 17"? 17" will always look better because of it's huge screen. And the 17" you are referring is how old, 1-2 years? This laptop dates back from around 2000, it is from the days of the Pentium III. Pretty damn impressive for a laptop that age. But ofcourse I'm dealing with a cult here so there's no use trying. Now don't tell me I'm dissing or against Macs, I love them and I'm the first person who can't wait to get there hands on a new iBook. But at the same time I'm not a blind follower.
 
In defense of that sony, your tibook probably weighs more and gets worse battery life. Two things of major importance (to me) in portable computing. Oh and to some who like it cool, your tibook probably runs pretty hot too (I've heard 120-140 degrees in this board, and others like it, is about right). As for "ugly, pretty" Since when did we become valley girls picking out clothes at a mall? I agree I like the looks of the powerbooks more then sony's lineup, but none the less that wouldn't keep me from using the Sony. I mean, don't call me a softee for not being as shallow, but I think its what on the inside that matters... And really the sony inside, excluding the windows/linux-only aspect has got what I like. A cooler (in my opinion faster) processor, with better battery life, lighter weight (even though the docking optical drive does churn me a bit inside, its better then dells external modules with cables and ports!) Personally I'd prefer the Apple's looks with Apple's software but the Sony's Hardware. Maybe its just me, but that seems like my ideal laptop/portable. :)
 
Also, I believe those docking stations can carry a secondary battery that allows for huge amounts of battery life. So while the thin non-dock part can get 3-4 hours of battery life, add it to the dock and get the optical drive plus another 4-6 hours of battery life, thats pretty awesome in my opinion as well. I'm not one for the docking types of laptops like that, but that's just me. Although I do like the Sony's that are thin-and-light with built in optical drives and as has been mentioned a million times before - have displays apple can't match (even there 17" powerbook's display isn't as good as most of sonys 15" displays IMHO). I mean, sony's 12/13/etc" widescreen ultra-bright 1280x800+ or whatever displays are gorgeous to me, with awesome viewing angles and color-clarity, although if apple truly does get there portable screens-updated (I am a fan of their cinema displays, now those are good screens but of course you do pay quite a price and premium for them...) to be on par with the current window-equivelent laptops, that will be a huge improvement in my book. We'll see starting with the iBooks on tuesday I guess :cool:
 
Plecky said:
In defense of that sony, your tibook probably weighs more and gets worse battery life. Two things of major importance (to me) in portable computing. Oh and to some who like it cool, your tibook probably runs pretty hot too (I've heard 120-140 degrees in this board, and others like it, is about right). As for "ugly, pretty" Since when did we become valley girls picking out clothes at a mall? I agree I like the looks of the powerbooks more then sony's lineup, but none the less that wouldn't keep me from using the Sony. I mean, don't call me a softee for not being as shallow, but I think its what on the inside that matters... And really the sony inside, excluding the windows/linux-only aspect has got what I like. A cooler (in my opinion faster) processor, with better battery life, lighter weight (even though the docking optical drive does churn me a bit inside, its better then dells external modules with cables and ports!) Personally I'd prefer the Apple's looks with Apple's software but the Sony's Hardware. Maybe its just me, but that seems like my ideal laptop/portable. :)

Okay, Plecky, you start by saying lets not all be valley girls and etcetera and you finish your statement with an aesthetics roundup.

And really the sony inside, excluding the windows/linux-only aspect has got what I like.
This is another great one.

In defense of that sony, your tibook probably weighs more and gets worse battery life. Two things of major importance (to me) in portable computing. Oh and to some who like it cool, your tibook probably runs pretty hot too (I've heard 120-140 degrees in this board, and others like it, is about right).

6lbs in relation to Four is nothing to me. Second, I appreciate the screen real estate and hardware features that come with the bigger size. Im also getting sick of these posts that say you can fry an egg on the bottom of a powerbook. It gets a little warm but nothing out of control. It feels rather nice during the cooler months, yet is not uncompfortable when its hot.



The guy with the whole mac cult argument...mr.coolniccafivetimes...hey buddy, I just switched to mac. No, I do not think they are the best thing since sliced bread. Yes, I do think their OS is more intuitive. Yes, I think they are more aesthetically pleasing than a windows box. Yes, I understand a windows box runs faster than a mac.

How am I in a cult? You come to a webpage that is comprised of mac fans, post a five year old PC as a valid comparison to a top of the range powerbook, and dont expect to get someone disagreeing with you?

As far as the docking station, I thought it was a bad idea ten years ago and i feel the same way now. It probably works for a good number of people, not for me. And yes, I do need that optical drive on the go, just like most anyone else who uses their computer for "beyond the basics" work.
 
Does any one currently have a Mac Mini on order? I ordered mine on Tuesday, July 19. When I just checked the order status it said delivery on or before August 2 (one week after the rumored release date). Does anyone know what happens when an update is released when an order is pending? Do they give you the new updated product or the one you ordered with a discount?
 
fr3nch13 said:
Does any one currently have a Mac Mini on order? I ordered mine on Tuesday, July 19. When I just checked the order status it said delivery on or before August 2 (one week after the rumored release date). Does anyone know what happens when an update is released when an order is pending? Do they give you the new updated product or the one you ordered with a discount?

Normally update you with the newer model. It will say in your order status "Replaced with Newer Model" or something to that effect when (if) the new models come out during your pending status.
 
SiliconAddict said:
Built in smilt in. Who cares. Without the ultrabay my X31 thinkpad is smaller then even the 12" PowerBook. I almost never use the optical drive. So IMHO I have a leg up on Apple laptops. I can make my laptop smaller and more portable. How are you going to do that with a PowerBook without going all Frankenstin on its butt? At least I and the Sony user have the option. Better to have the option then not. Apparently it has gone from Think Different to Think Close-minded. :rolleyes:


Yah until someone gives you a project on CD and you're not at home... and then thats me, beside you, laughing. Think Different doesn't mean 'Think half-featured'. And yes, you do have the choice to use Windoze.
 
Okay let me clarify, if that Sony ran OSX natively and I had the choice between in and the most-similar Powerbook, I'd choose the sony. Or if Apple's laptops looked like that sony, had hardware like that sony, but ran apple's software - I'd still buy one. I comment on the looks only as a non-dependent variable. I will never purchase a laptop with looks in such high regard, although the valley girl comment is more like "will I get this small pink cell phone with no features" or this "silver 'clunky' cell phone with a color screen, camera, and internet access?" Definitely the small pink one cause its "cute". Sure the tibook has good-enough hardware, but I don't think its hardware is as good as the sonys (just me, no offense intended). Of course software is a huge determining factor and of course I rather of OSX, but if the sony could handle it like future-intel-macs are suppose to be able to handle it in the future, I'd take the sony over the tibook anyday. I will comment on which aesthetic types i like more, but I will never make a purchase because of looks. I think aeshetics are held to high on computers. Sure I want something that looks good, but that's not saying that I must have the best looking thing - I want the best overall thing (remember we're excluding the OSX advantage which we all know is huge so don't flame up). Sure looks may be a small small factor in the overall, but its definitely not the determining factor ever in anything I purchase these days... I mean I can understand getting a mac mini instead of a tower to install into a car because its easier to install a mac mini then a tower for aesthetic reasons. But as for laptops, because there's a glowing apple logo on the outside, a aluminum case or a light up keyboard is not going to warrent a purchase on such aesthetics alone. By the way, what's with the glowing keyboard on powerbooks? Shouldn't most "power users" that use powerbooks know their keyboard by heart (I don't even considor myself close to a poweruser, yet I know where all the buttons on a systems keyboards are by heart in not-even-a-week of use and type without even looking down at my keyboard...). So what's the need again for a illuminated keyboard on their POWER-line? Wouldn't it be their consumer line that would need it more since they're the ones who probably would need to be looking down or finding certain keys if they were in a dark/dim area? Just posing the question cause I really am curious what you think, don't get defensive, but has anyone else ever thought about this? :confused:
 
cool laptop dan-o-mac, I am curious though - did you get it colored there colorwarepc.com and if so, do they do the keyboard as well? Or give the option not to do the keyboard if you wanted more black/white balance? Or even give you the option to do the touchpad/buttons black if you wanted it to be purely black? I can't find some of these specifics on their site, I'm just curious if you know for your experience... Anyways, I don't think that black-mac looks bad at all! Another aesthetic thing that gets blown out of proportion ("there white because black would look 'fugly'") But to drop aesthetics all together finally, when will apple start marketing there computers nearly as agressively as they market their iPods. I see a iPod commercial almost daily off watching about a hour of TV or less per day... Yet I have yet to see any commercials for their computers (well since they had the mini-me yao-ming laptop ones long ago, and the iMac ones that followed the guy through the window like it was a mirror or something). Are they waiting until after the intel-transition to market their computers? Or do they just feel with all there movie and tv-show product-placement there's no need for commercials? I'm confused as to what happened to Mac Commercials... As you can tell, I wonder about a lot of things (way too much and too often) :rolleyes:
 
wnameth said:
I disagree, there is quite a big difference, the bus speed, the case, the HD (that is one of the major things) and the overall difference between them.

True these are differences that favor the powerbook. But really I think a 133 mhz bus vs. 167 mhz is negligible. I have a rev. C with the 4200 rpm drive, but my father has the rev. C with the CTO 80 gig 5400 rpm drive. There is a little difference in boot time, app loading time, etc. but nowhere near the difference between, let's say the current PowerBook and a dual G5 or even the iMac G5. Even my mom's iMac G4 1ghz boots faster than either of ours. The case is certainly a matter of opinion however. I definitely like the sleek aluminium, but the iBook's plastic doesn't dent and certainly doesn't conduct heat as well. I had a 933mhz ibook G4 before I got my current machine, and it definitely felt much cooler on my lap.
 
Plecky said:
I want the best overall thing (remember we're excluding the OSX advantage which we all know is huge so don't flame up).

As someone who has assigned a heirarchy of value to the different features a notebook offers, why would you disregard the OS, even in a hypothetical argument? It makes your point totally moot.

Plecky said:
But as for laptops, because there's a glowing apple logo on the outside, a aluminum case or a light up keyboard is not going to warrent a purchase on such aesthetics alone. By the way, what's with the glowing keyboard on powerbooks? Shouldn't most "power users" that use powerbooks know their keyboard by heart (I don't even considor myself close to a poweruser, yet I know where all the buttons on a systems keyboards are by heart in not-even-a-week of use and type without even looking down at my keyboard...).

You know, in theory your right here. I certainly do not need to look at my keyboard when typing with two hands. However, when I remove those hands to retrieve documents or software, and am in the dark, the light up keyboard helps greatly in quickly getting back to work. It is also great on those nights where you are typing with one hand and have a cigarette or coffee in the other. Although Im a blind speed deamon with two hands, with one I really do have to look at the keys, as I am not using the standard ASDF JKL; placement of the fingers. (although I am faster with one hand than most are with two :cool: )

Plecky said:
although the valley girl comment is more like "will I get this small pink cell phone with no features" or this "silver 'clunky' cell phone with a color screen, camera, and internet access?"

Now Pleckmeister, what could a valley girl possibly do with a cell phone that has a color screen, camera, and internet access? Realistically speaking, they are choosing the phone that will benefit them the most. They make and recieve calls and text messages, and want to look good in the process...they dont check email and stock quotes on the go.

And Plecky...I think you have mistakenly assumed that asthetics are on the top of my list, judging by your posts. I was only responding to coolmrhomeslice's lame argument comparing a five year old sony to a top of the range, current powerbook. I dont put too much weignt on aesthetics, but the gravity is still there. If there are two similarly equipped books next to one another, each with a similar track record, I'd pick the better looking. Part of the whole Apple OS scheme is an aesthetically pleasing backdrop. Ever notice how apple's rounded buttons and soothing colors (in the OS) are generally better to look at as opposed to a windows setup, with its square interface and dull colors? There is a reason for that...its been proven that a more pleasing visual environment equals higher production and higher moral among employees. So, perhaps the purchase of a better looking notebook, assuming equal features to the Dull Brick next to it, will actually lend to more productivity and a larger bottom line, all while being happier in the mean time.

My opinion is simply that all products that aren't bargain basement generics (ie: name brand consumer goods) should strive toward an aesthetic ideal. People consistently downplay the importance of aesthetics in everyday life, but the significance is there. Im glad Apple doesn't settle for generic...their current line is something to behold. Very well executed while not being over the top and gaudy like many of the PC counterparts...that Dull XPS is a PRIME example of designing went horribly rotton...how could they let that shltbox out the door?!

Sure, there are other manufacturers out there that have nice looking machines. I consider Apples to be the best looking mass produced computer on the market, thats all. Some of you might say sony, some dell. The fact of the matter is, however, that regardless of whether these manufactureres may or may not have a slight aesthetic edge over Apple the OS is all the difference and in my opinion it is just pointless to compare Apples to PCs without the OS having a large factor in the argument. Even making the comparison for what the "thing" itself is, like Plecky would suggest, I'd still say an Apple is better than a Sony or any other mass prodcution PC box for a number of reasons, which I could site if you'd like me to.
 
why are all of you turning this into a pc vs. mac laptop thread? can you not read the title of the thread? do you not understand this is a mac site and of course people are going to defend apple products?

if you have issues with macs then you're on the wrong site.. trollers are not welcome here.

can we get back on topic now?
 
Hey zen, this is a four hundred fifty plus post on a topic that deserves half that at best. This is always what happens with these type of updates...people post a hundred or so comments regarding the actual content of the original thread starter, then it slowly but surly deteriorates into debate and speculation. If you want to read about the new iBooks, please, by all means read the first three hundred fifty comments. If you want to BS about macs in general, join the 400+ club. :D

Of course, I mean this in the best of humor so if you do have something about the new iBooks you like to add or question about, please feel free. Just realize, after these threads get to a certain length they tend to deviate from the yellow brick road into the forest of opinion and conjecture.
 
$MacUser$ said:
I'd still say an Apple is better than a Sony or any other mass prodcution PC box for a number of reasons, which I could site if you'd like me to.

If you are arguing asthetics, Sony has just as good asthetics as Apple, just a different style. If you ask me who makes the nicest astheticly pleasing computers out there, I would say Apple and Sony. Apple for Macs (they are the only one) and Sony for PCs. Cause the truth of the matter is, if you want a laptop PC (to run Windows apps or w/e) that is also astheticly pleasing, Sony is really your only choice. Now if we look astheticlly (and build quality wise)at laptop brands like Dell, HP or Compaq. :eek: Those brands are were the "dull" notion of PCs come from.
 
No, no, final cool man, that last statement was not in regards to aesthetics alone. It is in regards to quality control, integration of hardware and software, intuitive features, and the list goes on. I think Apple are the best computers from a number of perspectives. If all computers were windows, or, conversely, if they were all OSX, I might consider a different make simply because of the premium apple charges for the features you get. However, that is not the world we live in and I will continue to be loyal to the MAC OS.

I have owned a number of sony high end consumer goods over the past ten years. I will never buy them again. I have had numerous reliablity issues with their high end grand WEGA televisions, as well as a VAIO I owned a few years back. I have heard these complaints echoed throughout the community. I see Sony as a cheap conglomerate with nice packaging. As opposed to sony everything, I tend to go Microsoft for a consol, Panasonic Mitsu or Samsung for a TV (depending on whos got the best first), B&W speakers, and (of course) apple for my computer. Sony is lackluster in my opinion.
 
Plecky said:
cool laptop dan-o-mac, I am curious though - did you get it colored there colorwarepc.com and if so, do they do the keyboard as well? Or give the option not to do the keyboard if you wanted more black/white balance? Or even give you the option to do the touchpad/buttons black if you wanted it to be purely black? I can't find some of these specifics on their site, I'm just curious if you know for your experience... Anyways, I don't think that black-mac looks bad at all! Another aesthetic thing that gets blown out of proportion ("there white because black would look 'fugly'") But to drop aesthetics all together finally, when will apple start marketing there computers nearly as agressively as they market their iPods. I see a iPod commercial almost daily off watching about a hour of TV or less per day... Yet I have yet to see any commercials for their computers (well since they had the mini-me yao-ming laptop ones long ago, and the iMac ones that followed the guy through the window like it was a mirror or something). Are they waiting until after the intel-transition to market their computers? Or do they just feel with all there movie and tv-show product-placement there's no need for commercials? I'm confused as to what happened to Mac Commercials... As you can tell, I wonder about a lot of things (way too much and too often) :rolleyes:

It's not my laptop, I just wanted to post it because a few members were debating whether a black ibook would be hot or look too much like a pc. I found it doing reasearch for something i'm considering doing(painting a 2005fpw white). Here's the original thread.

http://www.neowin.net/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t326444.html
 
So how bout them new ibooks and minis? They are cool, real cool. I heard some cool things. Sony's ... they are cool too. But Valley Girls, they are hot oh so hot. Valley Girl updates this Tuesday? The Real Student Union: Free Valley Girl with iBook purchase. Wow I'd take that in a heartbeat.
 
TaKashMoney said:
Valley Girl updates this Tuesday? The Real Student Union: Free Valley Girl with iBook purchase. Wow I'd take that in a heartbeat.
You won't like the viruses and spyware.
 
TakashMoney, good call. I think earlier in this 400+ thread or maybe it was in the mini update 300+ thread on Page 2 of MR that the iBooks are chick magnets, so iBook and Valley Girl update on tuesday with the possibility of student union discount of Free iPod Mini to give to the Valley Girl who digs your iBook by September 24th, by October you'll have a iBook and a Valley Girl who loves you and the pink iPod Mini you gave her. Now who's not stoked once agin about iBook updates on tuesday!?!?! Haha good post! As for the mac mini updates, just pray that they release them in the iPod Mini colors - then you'll also have something to give that Valley Girl come christmas time, a pink Mac Mini of her own and a certified switcher with the "cutest" system around... what? Anyways, off topic of valley girls and the mac products that attract them, if the new high-end Mac Mini's or low-end iBooks are amazingly awesome, how much do you think I could get for my 1.42 ghz, 1 gig ram, 80 gb HD, AE/BT built-in, Superdrive Rev. A Mac Mini? Either off trade-in at a Apple Store or just trying to sell it via some other source? Secondly, what's a good way to sell such? If these new Mac Mini's or low-end iBooks have some really new impressive features (as an advanced GPU, more ports, and faster HD) what would be my best approach to letting go of this current mini (and I hear Apple's have good resale value and retain their value pretty well, is this really true after newer versions are released or would this only apply prior to tuesday with someone clueless not knowing about hte speculated updates)? It's valued at about $1,050 w/o student discount, $960 w/student discount, how much would be a good selling/asking/trade-in etc. price for me? I'm thinking $860 but I'm sure I'm way overstating, after tuesday I'll probably be lucky to get 700 for it huh? (price of the high-end new mac mini speculated for release tuesday 699 price tag in mind)... Please help?... Please... :eek:
 
Oh and to add one more speculation/rumor that I don't THINK would be on a Mac Mini but at the same time it wouldn't suprise me... Custom Engraving for Personalization like you find on the iPod's and iPod Mini's, engrave something on the front below the superdrive slot like "David Hasselhoff Rulez" or "Guns 'N' Roses 4 Life." I doubt it, but could anyone else sort of imagine this happening just so the Mac Mini may have one more thing with iPods in trying to draw that halo effect and switcher crowd who currently own Personalized-Engraved iPod's and iPod minis. Also, when will they get engraving on the shuffles? I know it be hard to read with there all white encasing... But still! :)
 
Plecky...get it on Ebay ASAP. That IMHO is the best way to pawn off mac goods. Will you get 860 for a mac mini, regardless of options, thats questionable. Why didnt you spend the extra couple bucks on an iMac for that much...or was it the form factor thing?

Just say in your ebay ad that its next to brand new, maxed out options, but you need the money for the upcoming college semester, which is more of a half truth than a blatant lie.
 
The reason I didn't go for the iMac is because I couldn't update the 1200-1300 dollar one with a superdrive and I already had the monitor/mouse/keyboard so I didn't see the point in getting a 1500+ iMac just for the superdrive. I heavily debated the eMac but the 17" CRT didn't seem as appealing as using my 19" LCD... And that would waste pretty much all my desk space (the CRT was so deep) and its weight would've made it a hassle to move between living-quarters. All in all I went with the Mac Mini of eMac (which would've been 150 dollars more as well after adding in the gig of ram and having the features i wanted, although it would've had a better hard drive and dual-layer superdrive). That being said, I guess I wouldn't really trade my current mini for the newer mini unless there really is something huge, but if hte new low-end iBook is good enough it be really tempting. Especially if the 12"-or-whatever small iBook has superdrive option and a better GPU! With those kind of updates/options on the 999 iBook, I really will want to get rid of my mini for the portability of a laptop, and i think the iBooks come with VGA-adapters (at least my friends 14" did) and if I install bluetooth I can use my current keyboard/mouse set. So really I guess its more trading in the Mac Mini for a iBook if iBooks really are improved as much people here strongly believe they will. I guess I better get to trying to get this off my hands via ebay...
 
BGil said:
Flash players had long ago reached 512 as the average size. Take for example iRiver: There 512 and 1GB players had been selling for 2-3 years before the shuffle showed up.

Perhaps, for double the price of the shuffle.

Squire
 
I hear ya about the iBook Plecky...I was in the market for a new Powerbook, but am going to hold off until next week to see what develops. In your case, I would def. get rid of the mini in favor of the iBook. It sounds like it will have the features your looking for.

Ebay is great for Apple goods. Out of all the different types of electronics I have sold on Ebay, Apple consistently hold their value. Its downright amazing. If you were to buy a 1500 dollar PC, then decide to sell it a few months later, youd be lucky to get 1000 for it. I had a dual 2.5 powermac w/ studio display that I needed to sell a few months later. I actually made a profit on the sale, being as I originally had the student discount.

I think thats another selling point of an Apple computer, and a big one too...the fact that its not a bad investment over the long haul. I still see G3 Pismos going for a few hundred dollars on ebay. I had a Compaq laptop that was a competitor of the Pismo when it was out...I couldn't get a dime for it years later.

You really cant go wrong with Apple. I think this might actually help things when its time to go intel. Some of the Apple community might embrace Intel right off and try to push their goods. Others will be trying to upgrade to the latest and greatest PPC so as to get the most use out of current PPC software.
 
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