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azdude said:
That's just it... Apple doesn't have another big Mac event until Jan.... They aren't going to the next MacWorld IIRC.

EDIT: NM... forgot about Paris.

Forgive me as I have not read through the entire thread but Steve told us about the iMac during his WWDC keynote. In his demo for spotlight, the three things that he searched for were iMac, Birthday, and Paris.

MacBidouille seems to be the only one that caught this.

Gotta love it when Steve uses cryptic code.
 
Supply and Demand......

MacEyeDoc said:
Customer: Apple branded PDA?
Apple: Cancelled that already . . .
Customer: 20th Anniversary Mac?
Apple: Well, we were tossing the idea around . . .
Customer: iPhone?
Apple: Not that again!
Customer: Mac OS X Tiger?
Apple: We already said NEXT year . . .
Customer: Can you in fact give a definite arrival date for any new stuff?
Apple: paris . . . imac . . .birthday . . . .

Mont Python with a twist:

Customer: I need a stable operating system....
MS: Come back in 2009, uh... better make that
2010, we'll be outa' beta by then.........
 
Regarding my earlier statement that there is nothing to indicate a complete redesign, 3.1416 writes:
3.1416 said:
What on earth are you talking about? This is the most blatant indicator I can imagine that there will be an extremely significant iMac revision. Apple says they're transitioning to an "all-new" and "next generation" iMac line, and you think that means a speed bump? If Steve unveils an iLamp at 1.5GHz in Paris, he will rightly be the laughingstock of the industry.
I first must point out the irony with which 3.1416 has decided to write, as he or she refers to Apple as "Steve." Joke understood, and I thank 3.1416 for the chuckle. I apologize for the sarcasm 3.1416, no harm intended.

However, I must point out that Apple calls the upcoming iMac line "all new" just as it has called the current iteration of the PowerBook "all new." Up until recently, for instance, the Apple Store had "new" circles over the PowerBook photos. Therefore, what Apple calls "all new" is not necessarily what we might consider "all new."

If this "sold out" message appeared on the website of, for example, Dell, we would not speculate about the next Dimension line that Michael Dell has up his sleeve. Let's try to keep things in perspective.

Mike LaRiviere
 
Unintentional hint?

greenstork said:
Forgive me as I have not read through the entire thread but Steve told us about the iMac during his WWDC keynote. In his demo for spotlight, the three things that he searched for were iMac, Birthday, and Paris.

MacBidouille seems to be the only one that caught this.

Gotta love it when Steve uses cryptic code.

Great observation......... revelation by association ;)
 
iMac, " next generation"

MikeLaRiviere said:
Regarding my earlier statement that there is nothing to indicate a complete redesign, 3.1416 writes:

I first must point out the irony with which 3.1416 has decided to write, as he or she refers to Apple as "Steve." Joke understood, and I thank 3.1416 for the chuckle. I apologize for the sarcasm 3.1416, no harm intended.

However, I must point out that Apple calls the upcoming iMac line "all new" just as it has called the current iteration of the PowerBook "all new." Up until recently, for instance, the Apple Store had "new" circles over the PowerBook photos. Therefore, what Apple calls "all new" is not necessarily what we might consider "all new."

If this "sold out" message appeared on the website of, for example, Dell, we would not speculate about the next Dimension line that Michael Dell has up his sleeve. Let's try to keep things in perspective.

Mike LaRiviere
mikelariviere@mac.com

True. However, Think Secret did accurately foreshadow
the new displays, verify Tiger screenshots, and have
described a new enclosure and design for the iMac.
If IBM is unable to produce 970FXs suitable for this
"all new" incarnation in quantity, then your prediction
will likely be correct - a new G4 iMac.
Hopefully, evolution won't be stunted for much longer.....
 
mhouse said:
Here is where I get into an argument with people but I assure you that I know of which I speak: consumers have PLENTY of power ALREADY in their home PCs. Processor speed no longer drives the majority of PC sales and even a tinier fraction of Mac sales.

This, at least, we agree on. Most people have far more computing power than they can really use effectively at this point, and anything beyond what we've reached will largely be to counteract the creep of bloat. With Microsoft, the specifications needed for Longhorn are ridiculous, but it's even a little bit bad on OS X at this point. I fully expect Tiger to leave older systems in the dust, but that's progress for you.

I compute daily on a 700mhz G4 and a 600mhz G3, and neither really has any problems with doing what I need them to do.

A G5 iMac at 1299-2199 is not going to sell any better than the current (absolutely beautiful) G4 iMac. Apple has two choices if they want the iMac to sell in the kind of numbers that the original G3 model did:

Actually, I'm willing to bet that a G5 iMac with nothing but the simplest changes in architecture would sell pretty well. Put a single G5, an SATA HD, and a couple of other revisions in and it would still be a very nice machine. It's going to need some redesign of the form factor, but that's nothing too terribly new, especially when one considers the overall heat budgets of the two architectures, not to mention their power requirements.

1. Lower the price drastically
This scenario is unlikely for several reasons. The most important one being the cannibalization of eMac sales. Also, from a product placement standpoint, the iMac prices have to stay about the same. There is no other place for them in the Apple line up. Go too high-end and you harm power mac sales, go any lower...you get the idea. Finally, this is Apple we're talking about. They've never gone dirt cheap and its unrealistic to think they'll start now.

You left out the most important and likely reason of all: the PowerPC tax. I showed a while back that PowerPCs are just more expensive than comparable systems in general, even when using commodity parts wherever possible. This has to do primarily with chips and motherboards, but those are typically the most expensive parts of the system, at least until lately (seen the prices for graphics cards?). The complete revamp of the Apple implementation of PowerPC means they'll be updating the motherboard, processor, system bus, I/O bus, memory controller, optical drive, HD, and evverything else.... It's not going to be cheaper, short of some kind of miracle.

2. A dramatic design improvement
And I mean dramatic. The current iMac flat panel was about as well designed and elegant a computer as you could ever hope for. It also offered a flat panel display when they were still relatively rare and expensive. Even with those design improvements, the G4 iMac never approached the sales of the G3 bubble-butt. The new iMac will need some design-based improvement in functionality that will really *wow* everyone.

It's a mac, how much more design incentive can you give someone? :p

That being said, I think there's something Apple could do that would be worthwhile in several senses. There are already production graphics cards that carry waterblocks, and Apple's got a liquid cooling system. Why not liquid cool the major parts of the system? Put the processor, GPU, and SuperDrive all on contact plates and then vent them with low speed fans around the upper section, say three of them pulling air through the radiator and pushing it off in separate directions.

It's not like the traditional iMacs are intended to be gotten inside of to begin with, after all.

I have no idea what the new iMac will be but I do know this: if its just a pretty new enclosure with a G5, they needn't have bothered. Consumers will not care.

The average consumer doesn't think about the fact that Wal-Mart buys more things from China than all but four nations in the world. They don't care about much other than pretty numbers and cheap stuff, and they won't. It's the nature of the beast to be cheap, ill-informed, ignorant, and careless about their purchases. Apple won't break that, even if they offer a cheaper machine, because there will still be software costs to switching.

oingoboingo said:
OMFG!! teh new G5 p0warb00x0rz!!! No more G4...it is teh sux0r!!

OMFGBBQGRASS!
 

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"led the way" - LOL

DMann said:
Late? Hardly. G5 led the way in the hardware race, Tiger follows through with true 64 bit OSX

Itanium has been doing 64-bit for 2 years or so, with Windows and several other operating systems (even OpenVMS !).

AMD64 was out *before* the G5.

And what's the big deal with OS X having no 64-bit virtual addressing, when true 64-bit is available on the Intel systems in both Linux and Windows (albeit preview for x86-64)?

And don't forget all the Alpha, HP-UX, SPARC and POWER desktops that were out in 64-bit *long* before x86-64 and OS X.
 
Happy Canada Day!

må¥å said:
off topic however I am goint to take the time to wish all the Mac users of CANADA a HAPPY CANADA's DAY.

Happy Canada Day, to all!
 
gekko513 said:
This doesn't sound like good news to me. It sounds like Apple is in trouble. They have no real computer offer between $1000 and $2000 for the next months. If you consider the fact that the iMac was very old and has been an even worse purchase ever since the eMac got upgraded, Apple will have no good offer between $1000 and $2000 for almost half a year! :eek:

I totally agree with you. I am shocked that so many people have rated this as positive news.

I think this is devasting news. The Wall Street Journal on Monday printed a big write up about the sinking share of Apple, how PCs now have entered the realm of high end recording, etc.

They(Apple) are not going to have their top consumer computer during the second biggest computer buying season (back-to-school). That is bad.

Coupled with the disappointing WWDC event, and also the fact that on the PC side, they have had 64 bit chips in laptops for well, over 6 months, I think this is a catastrophe!

Possibly, Apple could offer a single chip G5 1.6 PM for $999 - $1199, with some kind of rebate special on a monitor, to try and tide some buyers over.
 
Tell the difference

johnbro23 said:
eMacs are all in one! I've got one right in front of me that I'm typing this to you on. It has an LCD screen too! I think it's LCD? No, maybe its CRT. Oh well, I can't even tell the difference...

You must TRY to be more discerning :eek:
 
AidenShaw said:
Itanium has been doing 64-bit for 2 years or so, with Windows and several other operating systems (even OpenVMS !).

AMD64 was out *before* the G5.

And what's the big deal with OS X having no 64-bit virtual addressing, when true 64-bit is available on the Intel systems in both Linux and Windows (albeit preview for x86-64)?

And don't forget all the Alpha, HP-UX, SPARC and POWER desktops that were out in 64-bit *long* before x86-64 and OS X.

I guess I'm really arguing semantics here but the G5 was the first 64 bit desktop computer. The other chips you're naming go into workstations and servers. Not to lessen their technological advancements but it seems like Apple was the first, albeit by a slim margin to put a 64bit chip in a desktop.

The Athalon 64 came out after the G5 although the Opteron did exist beforehand. So strictly from the perspective of desktop vs workstation, Apple was first but we're really just pissing over semantics.
 
Inside info?

whatever said:
The bad news first.

Apple will not be releasing a G5 iMac this year. Sorry, not going to happen.

Good news, Apple is releasing a 23" iMac and new 20" iMac with the new displays.

Sorry, but someone needed to end all of this.

Is this indeed based on fact?
 
MikeLaRiviere said:
I first must point out the irony with which 3.1416 has decided to write, as he or she refers to Apple as "Steve." Joke understood, and I thank 3.1416 for the chuckle. I apologize for the sarcasm 3.1416, no harm intended.
I referred to Steve as Steve, since he will (presumably) be the one presenting at Paris. I'm not sure what you think you've proven here.

However, I must point out that Apple calls the upcoming iMac line "all new" just as it has called the current iteration of the PowerBook "all new." Up until recently, for instance, the Apple Store had "new" circles over the PowerBook photos. Therefore, what Apple calls "all new" is not necessarily what we might consider "all new."
Apple has never used such language or gone to such lengths for a speed bump. Do you honestly think it makes any sense at all for Apple to stop production of the iMac and resume two months later with a nearly identical but slightly faster model? Apply Occam's Razor.
 
Canada Day?

Ah, well, I'll tip me hat in (sic)

Happy Canada Day!

Actually, my mum lived in Belleville (south Ontario) for a few years as a young girl. I saw home movies, and honestly I must say that if she practised any longer, she could have gone pro in ice skating. Seriously.
 
Dave the Great said:
I totally agree with you. I am shocked that so many people have rated this as positive news.

I think this is devasting news. The Wall Street Journal on Monday printed a big write up about the sinking share of Apple, how PCs now have entered the realm of high end recording, etc.

They(Apple) are not going to have their top consumer computer during the second biggest computer buying season (back-to-school). That is bad.

Coupled with the disappointing WWDC event, and also the fact that on the PC side, they have had 64 bit chips in laptops for well, over 6 months, I think this is a catastrophe!

Possibly, Apple could offer a single chip G5 1.6 PM for $999 - $1199, with some kind of rebate special on a monitor, to try and tide some buyers over.

Hey man, you need to do a little more research. Have you seen Apple's stock price recently? Market analysts keep raising estimates on the company. Do you think these folks are just stupid?

Apple is pulling all the right strings right now and Wall Street is taking notice. Sure sure, they're bringing in revenue with consumer electronics but the mind share that they gain with this strategy will pay off for computer sales in the long run. Don't worry about Apple, they've got it going on right now.
 
New iMac

mhouse said:
No. No, No, NO. Read about this subject before repeatedly suggesting this!

I am aware of the engineering problems and I know that a detachable tablet is unlikely. However, my larger point was just what you acknowledged: they need something dramatic.

Here is where I get into an argument with people but I assure you that I know of which I speak: consumers have PLENTY of power ALREADY in their home PCs. Processor speed no longer drives the majority of PC sales and even a tinier fraction of Mac sales.

A G5 iMac at 1299-2199 is not going to sell any better than the current (absolutely beautiful) G4 iMac. Apple has two choices if they want the iMac to sell in the kind of numbers that the original G3 model did:

1. Lower the price drastically
This scenario is unlikely for several reasons. The most important one being the cannibalization of eMac sales. Also, from a product placement standpoint, the iMac prices have to stay about the same. There is no other place for them in the Apple line up. Go too high-end and you harm power mac sales, go any lower...you get the idea. Finally, this is Apple we're talking about. They've never gone dirt cheap and its unrealistic to think they'll start now.

2. A dramatic design improvement
And I mean dramatic. The current iMac flat panel was about as well designed and elegant a computer as you could ever hope for. It also offered a flat panel display when they were still relatively rare and expensive. Even with those design improvements, the G4 iMac never approached the sales of the G3 bubble-butt. The new iMac will need some design-based improvement in functionality that will really *wow* everyone.

I have no idea what the new iMac will be but I do know this: if its just a pretty new enclosure with a G5, they needn't have bothered. Consumers will not care.

Less expensive iMac? Now that would be really tough to pull
off, considering the cost of LCDs. The "wow" factor will have
to consists of a synthesis of upgrades - Aluminum theme, single
processor G5 at 1.6 Gz (less of a cooling issue) perhaps thinner
frame, as in the new displays.......
 
Supply and Demand......

beefstu01 said:
Apple's problem is that they never have enough supply to meet their demand. Never. Somehow other companies always have enough supply to meet their demand, and their demand is quite large compared to Apple. I love Apple to death, but if they want to grow out of their niche, they have to stock a whole lot more product than they do right now. A whole lot more. And this needs to be for each and every product that they sell! Some people don't mind waiting for a month for a computer. Some people can't wait that long.

Better to have a demand that exceeds supply, than
a supply that exceeds demand. Oversupply would be
extremely costly, when a single company is doing all
of the innovation.
 
3.1416 said:
Apple has never used such language or gone to such lengths for a speed bump. Do you honestly think it makes any sense at all for Apple to stop production of the iMac and resume two months later with a nearly identical but slightly faster model? Apply Occam's Razor.

3.1416, I must suggest that you apply Occam's Razor to your own logic. Which is simpler? Did Apple miscalculate its inventory and production times? Or is it seeking to disseminate information in a clandestine and enigmatic manner in order to build hype over a product that it seeks to introduce in ninety days, during which it will lose up to twenty percent in revenue as its shareholders watch AAPL take a beating? There is, of course, a precedent for the former possility: the recent shortage of iPod Mini units; and there was no ulterior motive for this, as Apple conceded that it seeks to gain as much MP3 player market share as possible.

Apple has gone to no "lengths" and used no enigmatic language to indicate that it will introduce a completely redesigned iMac. Apple states that the supply of current iMacs is depleted, and that the company had not planned on selling out the units before it was ready to sell new units. If we are to argue over semantics, I'll point out that Apple writes that it had expected to begin selling new units in "the next few weeks." Whether the new units are behind schedule or the old units sold out earlier than expected is unclear.

Don't misunderstand me; I think the coming iMac's will be good computers. But with regard to a complete redesign incorporating an IBM G5 processor, at the expense of ninety days lost sales and stock plummeting, the logistics just don't work out.

Mike LaRiviere
 
64 bit sever/workstation vs desktop

AidenShaw said:
Itanium has been doing 64-bit for 2 years or so, with Windows and several other operating systems (even OpenVMS !).

AMD64 was out *before* the G5.

And what's the big deal with OS X having no 64-bit virtual addressing, when true 64-bit is available on the Intel systems in both Linux and Windows (albeit preview for x86-64)?

And don't forget all the Alpha, HP-UX, SPARC and POWER desktops that were out in 64-bit *long* before x86-64 and OS X.

The AMD64 is not a consumer desktop machine, nor are
Alpha, HP-UX, SPARC and POWER (IBM)
G5 was the first consumer desktop available at 64 bit - workstations
and servers not included.
 
MikeLaRiviere said:
Second, there is NOTHING to suggest that a G5 chip will make its way into September's iMacs. Third, and most important, Apple does NOT indicate that the iMac will have a redesign. It uses the words "next generation."
quote from Apple's iMac page: "all-new iMac line which will be announced and available in September."
 
iomar said:
Wow, this is a wonderful news. .. I think iMac, G5 will be my next computer at home!
Much agreed, if it is a G5, I will sell my highend gaming PC (sorry to my girlfriend as she has a lot of games she likes to play on it) and buy the iMac.
 
Apple Expo — Paris

I can see it now, if Apple is already saying it will be available in September, you know that they are going to make a huge ordeal of releasing the new re-designed iMac. I and everyone else be furious if they release it with the G4 with the same speeds as the new PowerBook model's. 1.5 GHz and all the other new components, ect... It's already planned for Apple Expo - Paris.
We will just have to wait and see... I just wonder if they will really release a G5 consumer iMac before the Professional PowerBook. I hope I am wrong cause it may be a while till they can fit that HUGE HOT G5 processor in the thin designed PowerBook. Sorry if my post discouraged anyone. See-Yeah, Colby.
 
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