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ARG! All this battery talk is driving me crazy! Here's a few things to think about:
  • The battery capacity appears to be remaining the same(-ish)
  • But whereas the A9 (and A9X) are made with a 14-or-16nm photolithographic process, the A10 is expected to be a 10nm photolithographic process.
  • Lots of folks are aware of Moore's Law but lesser known is Koomey's Law. The computational power of devices goes up with Moore's Law but the power consumption of the same devices goes down because of Koomey's Law.
  • When Apple claims "same battery life because the A-Processor is more efficient" they are not making it up. It is a function of needing to push around fewer electrons through the increasingly microscopically small "wires" on a chip.
  • Apple knows all of this. The price-point/performance-level/style equation they must have to calculate (even if only metaphorically) takes all of this into account.
  • One size does not fit all. I charge my "6" every other day (maybe a bit more than that) and never have low-power-anxiety problems. I do NOT want to have to pay extra for more battery life that I do not need even if other power-users do. And I suspect Apple has all kinds of market research supporting their thinking that "the choices we have made will please the biggest audience." For those that it doesn't, the add-on battery pack fixes that ... maybe no so stylishly but...
  • Moore's Law has a little more life in it - and the limits Koomey's Law are still unfolding.
 
I agree with this. I have a 6S Plus and have no intention of upgrading. If there were a slight desire to do so, that was killed due to headphone jack rumors.

If the rumors are true, I'm sure Apple will release an adapter (probably priced at $39 which is just obnoxious).

I doubt it would cost any more than this thing ($19 lightning to micro-usb): http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD820AM/A/lightning-to-micro-usb-adapter

They might go even lower at $10. I'm sure it doesn't cost any more than a couple bucks to manufacture, and with the iPhone sales leveling off now is not the time to piss of people. My money is on it being included but we'll see.
 
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Considering the power efficiency improvements in the new A10 chip, I think this battery increase will go a long way towards satisfying users. It's great that Apple could do this and make it thinner, though unfortunately at the loss of the headphone jack. However, this does make me think it seems less likely the iPhone 7 will have the same dual-camera system that is rumored for the Plus version. Personally I'd prefer the same thickness and dual-cameras. The headphone jack is trivial for me. As long as it comes with an adapter or some new BT Earpods then I'm good.

There's not going to be a huge improvement in efficiency/battery life when the a9 is already using the latest TSMC process node. We've gotten spoiled in that in almost every iPhone revision we've gotten a node shrink. I don't think anyone has anything smaller than 14/16nm in mass production.
Edit: yes there's rumors about TSMC going 10nm, but I call shens on those reports. TSMC is not known for hitting targets on new process nodes that quickly.
 
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Cut to...
"The new 2018 iPhone 8 - since Siri is so good now, we've eliminated the display entirely, which has allowed us to decrease the thickness to just 2mm. We've even thoughtfully included dotted lines on the phone's shell where you can break it into smaller pieces be put in the credit card slots of your wallet.* We think it's the best iPhone we've ever made.™

*: (Phone may lose some or all functionality after snapping into pieces. Siri unable to speak from inside closed wallet and may suffocate in there. Offer void where prohibited.)"
 
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I'm here if you need me..

iPhone-battery-case-780x473.png
 
Same here- looking around I have 3.5 plug in my night clock, kitchen, car and the office and before anyone say switch to Bluetooth I don't think a thinner phone is a valid trade off.

And you actually use all of those headphone jacks?

Apple made that mistake with the first iPhone and the recessed headphone jack. The iPhone wasn't even that popular yet and people complained for days about it. Time marches on, etc etc, but I don't think Apple would gamble that big on their biggest money maker and risk pissing off hundreds of millions of people upgrading who no longer can use any of their (sometimes expensive) headphones. This is really going to be a defining moment for Apple so they better not mess it up. There's little else in tech that riles people up like limiting them and requiring them to purchase extra adapters, especially just to do something as basic as listening to music. As it is, Apple Music has been a little slow out of the gate. This would only hurt that effort. They have to be smart about it. At 6.1mm it's technically able to fit the jack—I mean isn't that the same thickness as the iPod Touch? So they better have a good reason ready as well as a solution. They bought Beats—put those engineers to use! People on the forums swear that their headphones have gotten better over the past year. I still haven't tried them again.

I bought one of those original iPhones, paid full price for it too (and all I got was this stupid gift card ;-). And I used the headphones they supplied with them, and never had a problem. But that was also a very different kind of adapter to sell. Moving people over to lightning will be a little easier because they can promise better audio, and the included earbuds will showcase that. A 3.5mm adapter in the box will deter people from using the Lightning headphones and opting to invest more in the quality of their audio. Lightning can do HQ audio now, but it's so expensive that nobody's really looking past the cheap low-cost alternative they've been using. But what Apple really wants is for customers to move to wireless. But it's still too expensive. Apple needs to turn up demand to get developers to offer better quality products at lower prices. Putting an adapter in the box to continue using their old, cheap, often low quality 3.5mm products is not going to motivate customers to do that.

And no, Apple is not going to upset "hundreds of millions" of customers with the iPhone 7, considering there's only about 475 million active iPhones out in the world as it is. They'll upset a fraction of the 120 million or so iPhone 7s they sell. But not all of them. And I'd be very surprised Apple would make this move at this point without a pretty good idea of how their customer base was going to react. And there will be inexpensive adapters for sale, so nobody's old headphones are going to become unusable. I doubt Apple will charge more than $20 themselves, and cheap Chinese adapters can be had for probably less than $10.

So the fact Apple will likely give customers a free pair of Lightning headphones, will satisfy many of them who actually use those headphones primarily. The custom headphone users are going to grouse, but it's the total number of those customers that's going to make the difference. When the iPhone was new, only Apple's headphones would work with it, and that was a problem because there were not any other good options like Bluetooth, or Airplay. 10 years later and there's tons of reasonably good wireless options, and Apple's headphones have improved quite a bit as well.

As for what's in the iPhone box, I could imagine Apple coming up with a unique Lightning connector with a built-in 3.5mm plug so that their headphones will work with Apple's other non-Lightning equipped products (as it will take them a while to add Lightning ports to all of their current products). But I don't see them encouraging the use of 3.5mm products out of the box. Unlike the original iPhone which Apple miscalculated the desire of customers to use their own headphones, you can bet the sales clerks at the Apple Store will be asking the customer if they'd like to buy a 3.5mm adapter for use with their current headphones. I never knew that my old headphones wouldn't work with Apple's new iPhone when I bought it. And that's probably more upsetting than knowing and being able to do something about it when I was buying it, rather than after I got home, especially when I found out all it did was adapt the plug shape to another dimension. At least the Lightning adapter purports to offer a higher quality of sound.
 
this most likely means that there is no resolution increase for the regular iphone 7 if the battery capacity is similar. And TSMC's 10nm process is not ready. I doubt we will see it earlier than iphone 7S. So right now, A10 will most likely be a clock speed update only.

This is one of the years where I am seriously considering switching to galaxy s7 edge since apple seems to have lost it. Only problem is android's ecosystem and lack of software updates. Probably will wait for this year's nexus lineup.
 
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Can we PLEASE get Wireless and Fast Charging. At least Fast Charging. I'm using a Note 5 just to try it out and hate the operating system, but I love how fast it charges lol

Its frustrating how it looks like Fast Charging isn't even on the rumor table according to this article

I've never used a note some people love them but at least the older os version always looked a little complex for what I would want on a smartphone. Any android phone that is at least very similar to pure android (Current galaxy phones would be up there, Motorola's and of course the nexus phones) will have a superior OS to current ios. It's just cleaner. I'm tired of top left auto arranged icons, not being able to set a different tone for 3 party apps, setting default apps that are not Apple, and a Today tab that rarely shows the current temperature but will tell me it's windy outside. Battery life and not having wireless and fast charging is the cherry on top that will push me back to Android this fall if the iphone 7 and ios 10 are duds again which I'm wagering they will be. This battery discovery is already a step in the wrong direction.

Apple really doesn't listen to what people want. They make them want things they don't need and people later realize they don't use. All in a walled garden. Just a little annoying.
 
And you actually use all of those headphone jacks?



I bought one of those original iPhones, paid full price for it too (and all I got was this stupid gift card ;-). And I used the headphones they supplied with them, and never had a problem. But that was also a very different kind of adapter to sell. Moving people over to lightning will be a little easier because they can promise better audio, and the included earbuds will showcase that. A 3.5mm adapter in the box will deter people from using the Lightning headphones and opting to invest more in the quality of their audio. Lightning can do HQ audio now, but it's so expensive that nobody's really looking past the cheap low-cost alternative they've been using. But what Apple really wants is for customers to move to wireless. But it's still too expensive. Apple needs to turn up demand to get developers to offer better quality products at lower prices. Putting an adapter in the box to continue using their old, cheap, often low quality 3.5mm products is not going to motivate customers to do that.
.

Isn't "better sound" tied to the quality of the Digital Analog Converter (DAC) regardless of digital (Lightning) or analog (3.5 mm) jack? At the end of the day the signal needs to be converted back to analog because humans can't otherwise hear the 1s and 0s .
Going Lightning-only puts the listener at the mercy of whatever DAC is in the wireless or wired headphones and introduces two variables into the "quality sound equation" - the headphones and the DAC. Currently the only variable is the headphones because the DAC is in the iPhone.
To my knowledge Lightning-only is no guarantee of better sound. I'd even argue that, in trying to reach a price point, headphone manufacturers will have to find sacrifices; the DAC will be in their cross-hairs.
 
There's not going to be a huge improvement in efficiency/battery life when the a9 is already using the latest TSMC process node. We've gotten spoiled in that in almost every iPhone revision we've gotten a node shrink. I don't think anyone has anything smaller than 14/16nm in mass production.
Edit: yes there's rumors about TSMC going 10nm, but I call shens on those reports. TSMC is not known for hitting targets on new process nodes that quickly.
Well, considering the A9 was already more efficient than the A8 (similar battery life with smaller battery), any gains in battery will be felt. They also might find a way to package more components together. There was also some rumor about Intel LTE chips, but I can't remember if they were much more efficient or not.
 
And you actually use all of those headphone jacks?



I bought one of those original iPhones, paid full price for it too (and all I got was this stupid gift card ;-). And I used the headphones they supplied with them, and never had a problem. But that was also a very different kind of adapter to sell. Moving people over to lightning will be a little easier because they can promise better audio, and the included earbuds will showcase that. A 3.5mm adapter in the box will deter people from using the Lightning headphones and opting to invest more in the quality of their audio. Lightning can do HQ audio now, but it's so expensive that nobody's really looking past the cheap low-cost alternative they've been using. But what Apple really wants is for customers to move to wireless. But it's still too expensive. Apple needs to turn up demand to get developers to offer better quality products at lower prices. Putting an adapter in the box to continue using their old, cheap, often low quality 3.5mm products is not going to motivate customers to do that.

And no, Apple is not going to upset "hundreds of millions" of customers with the iPhone 7, considering there's only about 475 million active iPhones out in the world as it is. They'll upset a fraction of the 120 million or so iPhone 7s they sell. But not all of them. And I'd be very surprised Apple would make this move at this point without a pretty good idea of how their customer base was going to react. And there will be inexpensive adapters for sale, so nobody's old headphones are going to become unusable. I doubt Apple will charge more than $20 themselves, and cheap Chinese adapters can be had for probably less than $10.

So the fact Apple will likely give customers a free pair of Lightning headphones, will satisfy many of them who actually use those headphones primarily. The custom headphone users are going to grouse, but it's the total number of those customers that's going to make the difference. When the iPhone was new, only Apple's headphones would work with it, and that was a problem because there were not any other good options like Bluetooth, or Airplay. 10 years later and there's tons of reasonably good wireless options, and Apple's headphones have improved quite a bit as well.

As for what's in the iPhone box, I could imagine Apple coming up with a unique Lightning connector with a built-in 3.5mm plug so that their headphones will work with Apple's other non-Lightning equipped products (as it will take them a while to add Lightning ports to all of their current products). But I don't see them encouraging the use of 3.5mm products out of the box. Unlike the original iPhone which Apple miscalculated the desire of customers to use their own headphones, you can bet the sales clerks at the Apple Store will be asking the customer if they'd like to buy a 3.5mm adapter for use with their current headphones. I never knew that my old headphones wouldn't work with Apple's new iPhone when I bought it. And that's probably more upsetting than knowing and being able to do something about it when I was buying it, rather than after I got home, especially when I found out all it did was adapt the plug shape to another dimension. At least the Lightning adapter purports to offer a higher quality of sound.

Yeah I had that original iPhone too, full price $599 for 8GB. Still have it in the box on my desk at home. It was pretty annoying not having a standard jack opening, especially as someone coming from not owning other Apple products. Even today I use the Sony XBA-C10IP earbuds which are like a better version of the Earpods, and I'm no audiophile. But what benefit will "HQ Audio" have when it's still only 256kbps? Wouldn't they have to address that? And increasing that bit rate significantly would affect Apple Music streamers on limited data plans (so mostly everyone). Furthermore, wouldn't they need some really high end drivers to notice a difference in this "HQ Audio"? And yes it would affect hundreds of millions, as once they do this and go too thin there isn't any turning back. All future iPhones will have to deal with this.

As I've said in other threads on this, I applaud Apple at pushing the industry forward with an old connector, but like I said, they need to make sure they come up with satisfactory solutions or it could dip sales. And it won't take much to dip sales and tank their stock right now as they're treading a fine line. So I get what you're saying about wanting to move them towards Lightning, but at the same time it seems rather expensive to build a decent pair of Lightning EarPods that showcases the benefit of "HQ Audio" to users who would actually care about that—probably less than 10% of the population? It will be really interesting to see how this shakes out. The only thing I know is that people will be pissed either way, lol.
 
I'm fine with the battery life of my 6S+. I think Apple is taking the right stance on this. The answer to battery life should be innovation and efficiency. I would consider throwing a giant power brick in the new iPhone a step backwards.
 
People are complaining about apple' s obsession by thinness. Because they are going to add a case anyway.
But I like my iPhone thin with a case.

But that case argument does solve another problem:
Don' t complain so much about the bulge of the lens , if you add a case, you won' t notice.
It works both ways , you know.

But I hope the additional battery cap is used to power a new and higher res display.
Agree.
I like my iPhone to be thin.
I use it with an apple silicon case and its thinnes counts.

I have no complaints about battery life of my iPhone 6S: it reach the evening with 20-25% of residual charge.
I don't want a thicker phone heavier, because I'm going to recharge it every day nonetheless.

The Galaaxy S7's slogan should be:

Samsung Galaxy S7
"Slightly Better than the iPhone 6."

Fixed for you.
 
ARG! All this battery talk is driving me crazy! Here's a few things to think about:
  • The battery capacity appears to be remaining the same(-ish)
  • But whereas the A9 (and A9X) are made with a 14-or-16nm photolithographic process, the A10 is expected to be a 10nm photolithographic process.
  • Lots of folks are aware of Moore's Law but lesser known is Koomey's Law. The computational power of devices goes up with Moore's Law but the power consumption of the same devices goes down because of Koomey's Law.
  • When Apple claims "same battery life because the A-Processor is more efficient" they are not making it up. It is a function of needing to push around fewer electrons through the increasingly microscopically small "wires" on a chip.
  • Apple knows all of this. The price-point/performance-level/style equation they must have to calculate (even if only metaphorically) takes all of this into account.
  • One size does not fit all. I charge my "6" every other day (maybe a bit more than that) and never have low-power-anxiety problems. I do NOT want to have to pay extra for more battery life that I do not need even if other power-users do. And I suspect Apple has all kinds of market research supporting their thinking that "the choices we have made will please the biggest audience." For those that it doesn't, the add-on battery pack fixes that ... maybe no so stylishly but...
  • Moore's Law has a little more life in it - and the limits Koomey's Law are still unfolding.

Don't put your hopes for 10nm A10 in iPhone 7 up too high. It's not happening. The process is not ready yet. TSMC is expected to start risk production on 10nm process this year. The real products will only be available in 2017.
 
Its very frustrating. As a long time apple user, I'm giving the Note 5 a try and I'm not a fan of Android but man, the fast charging is awesome as well as Samsung Pay working everywhere. I really want Apple to include AT LEAST Fast Charging in the iPhone 7. I really expect fast charging, wireless charging, 32GB base storage just to remain competitive. Nevermind about a better screen and water resistance
Whenever I want fast charging I use an iPad charger to charge my iPhone.
 
Those combined leaks convince me that:
Buying iPhone 6s Plus is still a good choice.
In addition:
- Removing headphone jack is a no-no. And I don't want an adapter, thank you.
- I hate a thin device. iPod touch 6th gen is thin enough, but the feeling when holding it at hand is often strange.
- I want a larger battery.
Non of those above could iPhone 7 deliver to me. 6s Plus at least is thick enough, and it has a headphone jack.

I want an A10.
I want a better camera.
I want a better screen.

I'll take the iPhone 7.
 
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considering there's only about 475 million active iPhones out in the world as it is.

I see you've upped your estimate from 400 million to 475 million... but it's still too low.

Apple sold 230 million iPhones last year alone. And 675 million over the last 4 years.

iPhones last a looong time. They stay in service much longer than other phones.

I've actually heard estimates around 700 million active iPhones.

Tim Cook said in January that there are a BILLION active Apple devices... and we know iPhones make up the VAST majority of them. (there are less than 100 million Macs and maybe 200 million iPads, yet not very many iPods anymore)

So... how are you figuring 400-475 million active iPhones worldwide?

By saying that... you're saying half of all the iPhones on Earth were sold just last year. Or that almost all of the iPhones on Earth were sold over the last two years. That's ridiculous ;)
 
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Apple is so uncompromising with their obsession on thinness...

We REALLY wouldn't mind if the device were as thick as the previous generation model, with a bigger battery inside.

Maybe you wouldn't mind, but there are more than half people do. For most people, iPhone battery is enough to last a whole day of their usage. For the minority who needs longer usage time per day, get a battery case, or a power stick, or a power bank! Sure, it will help everyone if Apple can have different versions of each model with battery capacity options.

Then, even if Apple does that, there will be some smaller amount of people still needs more than the largest battery capacity option offered.
 
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