New Intel Mac mini

[tjwett]

Many defenders of the Integrated GPU state...What did you expect? A Mac Mini is not a gaming system?

While this is true, I think people are upset, not because it isn't an Alienware machine, instead it can't even play a casual game here and there. What's wrong with playing the occasional Sims 2 type game. Is this too much to ask? There's a lot of casual computer users who play a game or two. Maybe not to the level of Doom 3 at 40fps, but they do. Another point, why was Apple using a 3D gaming example to prove their reasoning why a dedicated GPU is better than using an integrated chip? Now they are using one. So the old mini can play 3D games too? I see Intel really loves putting more than their chips in any computer.

Thanks to a user who copied this image from the old G4 mini site.

well part of the reason that stealing CPU and memory from the G4 mini (and budget PCs for that matter) can be such a huge bother is that they typically have a single core CPU and not much RAM to spare. the mini has a core duo and can take 2GB of RAM. i gotta think that will help ease the pain brought on by the shared graphics.

 

[tjwett]

It's a full sized 2.5" disk 😉 (what's full size? 3.5, 5.25, 14 inches?)

laserdisc.

 

[wpwj40e]

ABOUT the whole DVI/HDMI conversation going on within this thread:

If this Mac Mini was indeed an announcement "for the living room" as some have stated, that's where my gripe on video output lies. While HDMI may be pin-for-pin a DVI connection (thanks for that info, didn't know that), my concern does stand:

With HDTV pushing into homes full steam, non-HD (at least, non-analog) TV signals being phased out, and so forth, it seems really strange that Apple would omit an EASY way to output an HD signal from this new Mac Mini.

I could go buy many things depending on my own knowledge and the knowledge of the person I purchase from: a DVI to HDTV cable, a VGA to Component converter box, a DVI to Component dongle, and so forth.

The catch with these is that, Apple only directly supports their DVI to S-Video connector, which is a joke if you have an HDTV set. Even a small one, as the quality goes out the window.

With Apple pushing HD on the desktop, I'm really surprised that the Min doesn't have an HD output. I think a whole lot of people do NOT have a separate sound system hooked into their TV - no one I know in NYC at least has one, the apartments are too small. =) So even if I got a DVI to HDMI cable, I'd still need a way to get the sound, and since my TV (and most!) support HDMI as its own discrete input, it's impossible WITHOUT a separate sound system.

While I'd love to buy a Mini, I just can't justify the extra expense to use it as perhaps Apple envisioned - as a piece of my living room. I'd need to invest in a receiver, speakers, and cabling to hook my current kit up to all of that - whereas if Apple just included an HDMI output (or sold a cheap DVI to Component video + audio box), I'd be all set.

While I am not supporting Apple's new mini products...I have hooked a few mini's (PPC) with a DVI/HDMI cable without a surround system/receiver.

You can go to radio shack and get the DVI/HDMI adaptor (the monster one is 29.95). This will bring a digital signal to your TV. If your TV supports a "computer" hookup over HDMI - then most likely (many models have this) you will have a seperate audio input that can be used. YOu can then run either an analog or on the new mini - optical/didgital cable to that input. When you setup the computer on your TV - most will "sense" the audio connection if in place - or you can specify where the audio is coming from.

You can also use the other audio inputs you set has - however thats a bit more complicated and is best done with a good remote like the harmony.

So - yes you can utilize the audio and digital connection of the mac mini - both its current form and prior.

 

[C00rDiNaT0r]

well part of the reason that stealing CPU and memory from the G4 mini (and budget PCs for that matter) can be such a huge bother is that they typically have a single core CPU and not much RAM to spare. the mini has a core duo and can take 2GB of RAM. i gotta think that will help ease the pain brought on by the shared graphics.

But if you need that much RAM (going to cost quite a lot to upgrade, even with EDU price) to have this machine running the way you want it to, why not just buy a MacBook Pro or an iMac? On top of the much better graphics processor, you're also getting a faster CPU.

 

[Scarlet Fever]

i dont quite understand integrated graphics; does it mean if you have 2GB of RAM installed and your computer needs 512MB, you still have 1.5GB available?

 

[kugino]

But if you need that much RAM (going to cost quite a lot to upgrade, even with EDU price) to have this machine running the way you want it to, why not just buy a MacBook Pro or an iMac? On top of the much better graphics processor, you're also getting a faster CPU.

an extra 1GB ram chip will cost you about $120 from a site other than apple.

for many people the imac or a macbook may be a better purchase...that's up to the individual person.

 

[generik]

It's a full sized 2.5" disk 😉 (what's full size? 3.5, 5.25, 14 inches?)

Ah many thanks 😀

I thought they might have managed to fit in a big drive SOMEHOW 🙄

 

[ericsthename]

New Mini

I think one of the things that this intel situation brings us, is a large field from which to draw speculation. In the PPC world, updates came in fairly linear fashion, incremental processor upgrades built up to complete processor revisions - which eventually spread across the entire macintosh line. Now with intel, multiple processors are available, all based on the same architecture, and the scene is wide open...

The GPU situation in the mini is disappointing to me, really, because it seems like a step backward in the apple progression... Even my ancient G3 iMac has an ATI video card, and off the top of my head, I can't remember a particular mac model that didnt have a graphics chip (separate) in the "modern" era.

I guess this answers the philosophical debate then, we truly have entered the "post-modern era" 😀

 

[Multimedia]

Multitasking Is Core Duo's Strength

Ok, I need some help on this.

Is a core duo really 2x faster than a core solo? Again, I thought the two cores could not exactly 'split the work' that the computer is doing to really be 2x faster unless you are processing many different things at once. Wouldn't the core duo seem only marginally faster to the average user??

thanks,

It depends on how the application is written. And yes nothing will run exactly twice as fast. But note the speed of both is higher for a total of 2.32 GHz worth of processing power. System overhead for running anything on two instead of one processor is about 10% so the Core Duo is in fact likely to approach twice as fast for those applicaitons that are written to use more than one.

But the big deal is when you are running multiple applications simultaneously, the computer remains lively in spite of the workload. I am running on a Quad now. I was on a dual 2.5 GHz G5 and it was overlaoded and bogged down when multitasking.

 

[powerbook911]

Not to be "off-topic"🙄 but..

That Boombox kinda grows on ya the more you think about it..

As for Steve ? He looks typically Steve Jobs to me.

That looks like when Steve said he is replacing his stereo with the Hi-Fi! He really said that. haha

 

[Arcady]

So even if I got a DVI to HDMI cable, I'd still need a way to get the sound, and since my TV (and most!) support HDMI as its own discrete input, it's impossible WITHOUT a separate sound system.

Most decent HDTV sets will allow you to specify an alternate audio source for the HDMI input. Check your manual or onscreen menu.

 

[ddrueckhammer]

Mac Mini Feedback

Everyone who feels that Apple missed the mark on this product should take second to quickly send feedback at:

http://http://www.apple.com/feedback/

There isn't a place to put feedback for the Mac Mini but it let me submit feedback under the Power Mac section.

From the ratings on this thread it looks like there a lot of disappointed users out there. If we all send feedback maybe the next revision will be better!

 

[ddrueckhammer]

People are peeved over 2 things:
a) The cost increase
b) The assumed problem with integrated graphics

a) can be explained by the extra value of the processor, standard wireless, extra USB, optical audio, high RAM capacity and probably several other improvements. I don't think you can make a reasonable argument that these things aren't worth the increase. I would agree that the $500 price point *is* magical and perhaps having a more stripped down box (sans wireless?) may have made a few budget minded folks happier. But it's not a rip-off.

b) Is still a big guess and WILL ALWAYS BE, because there will be no way to truely compare similar machines (since the G4 is so different) There can be little doubt that the added speed in the Intel chips outweighs the graphics situation. It seems that the shared memory is the biggest problem and 512MB minus shared memory won't cut it in almost any situation. Now folks talking about rosetta should remember a few things: 1. rosetta isn't forever. 2. Photoshop and FCS cost more than the machine itself (unless you're EDU or a pirate). 3. Office runs good enough. I know there are more rosetta apps, but that probably covers most of the big ones. The gamers should buy something else. Sorry.

As a poster several hundred posts ago reiterated: this announcment was for the living room, not the gaming room. Let the year finish before you claim the intel transition is a failure. Jeez, it's just febr---march.

does that sum up the thread pretty well? oh. and DVI and HDMI cables can be bought to work with a mac mini and HDTV...

For me it's neither the cost increase nor the integrated video card (although this is slightly annoying). I'm just not sure who this is for...It isn't an entry level machine with its HT features and it isn't a HT machine because it has no DVR or TV decoding ability or even a way to download high quality video for a fee...It looks to me like an overpriced DVD player or possibly a bittorrent movie pirate's dream machine...

 

[admanimal]

i dont quite understand integrated graphics; does it mean if you have 2GB of RAM installed and your computer needs 512MB, you still have 1.5GB available?

A normal graphics card will have its own dedicated video RAM that is separate from the main system RAM that the CPU uses. Integrated graphics has to borrow some memory from the main system RAM because it does not have any of its own. This has two effects: the CPU has less RAM available to it since the IG is using some, and the IG's access to this RAM is slower than if it had its own dedicated RAM.

For example, the new mini's IG chipset uses a minimum of 80 MB of RAM, so if you have 512 MB total, the CPU will only be able to access 432 at best. So obviously having more memory really helps performance if you have integrated graphics.

 

[goddylla]

well part of the reason that stealing CPU and memory from the G4 mini (and budget PCs for that matter) can be such a huge bother is that they typically have a single core CPU and not much RAM to spare. the mini has a core duo and can take 2GB of RAM. i gotta think that will help ease the pain brought on by the shared graphics.

That's kinda like smacking a perfectly healthy person into TBI (traumatic brain injury) and then justify it by saying "Hey, I'll give you some salmon, ya know ..... brain food...... if you foot the bill."

It's a poor workaround that has dificulty even posing as progress.

 

[swingerofbirch]

Since the Mac Mini is shipping today, these Rev A models stand.

But let us not forget the story of the Bondi iMac. When Bondi was announced, it included a 33.6K modem. Apple said it was good enough for the masses and no one could tell the difference between it and a 56k modem. By the time the iMac shipped Apple included a 56K modem and admitted it was because of consumer pressure.

I would press them on this issue. Unfortunately they don't have a site set up for Mac Mini feedback. But you can call and write:

* Apple
* 1 Infinite Loop
* Cupertino, CA 95014
* 408.996.1010


The problem is no one writes letters. Phone calls are easy though. The problem is that you'll get an Apple operator who won't be able to handle your call, unless we all call in using the exact same verbiage: that will get back to Apple.

If you call saying, "I am calling regarding the shared video memory problem on the new Mac Mini, will you please file my complaint?" They won't know what to do, BUT, they will tell their bosses they are getting a lot of calls about something they don't understand. They will look into it and so forth.

It could be like a protesting call in. We need to help Apple help itself. They're hurtin for certain.

 

[trailblazer]

you are!

 

[booksacool1]

Intel GMA950? Arggh

Yes I respect that fact that its not a gaming computer, BUT the previous models had a radeon 9200 did they not?. Honestly I don't pay extra for a graphics downgrade 😡 😡 😡
The fact that its shared is even more annoying. Not only do the graphics suck, but they suck up your ram too 😡

 

[Tomte]

Max shared memory

from Apple.com:

Graphics memory is shared with main system memory. Minimum graphics memory allocation is 64MB, resulting in maximum of 448MB available system memory. Maximum graphics memory allocation is 80MB.

So you will always have at least 432 MB RAM available.

 

[delgado]

I just want to know

If all I want to do is use this to watch movies on my tv & control my massive stereo system, will this be good enough? Will DVDs look as good as they would on a DVD player? Additionally, is there any reason to spring for the duo core or should I save my money? All the sound/video editing, word processing, etc, I will do on my powerbook. I assume that my planned activities are what apple has in mind when they designed this, but all y'all feaking out about the lack of video card scares me. Also, it seems many people on this thread assume apple has THEIR desires in mind, which I am hoping is just plain wrong. Anybody want to help me out a bit? Thanks!

 

[thies]

well part of the reason that stealing CPU and memory from the G4 mini (and budget PCs for that matter) can be such a huge bother is that they typically have a single core CPU and not much RAM to spare. the mini has a core duo and can take 2GB of RAM. i gotta think that will help ease the pain brought on by the shared graphics.

Single core with 512mb is what they sell. Suggesting to throw another 300$ at the graphics problem in regards to using more ram is ridiculous.

 

[thies]

an extra 1GB ram chip will cost you about $120 from a site other than apple.

for many people the imac or a macbook may be a better purchase...that's up to the individual person.

And a nice gaming rig from someone other than apple will cost me less than a mini with added ram.

 

[aswitcher]

from Apple.com:

Graphics memory is shared with main system memory. Minimum graphics memory allocation is 64MB, resulting in maximum of 448MB available system memory. Maximum graphics memory allocation is 80MB.

So you will always have at least 432 MB RAM available.

But your still ripping cycles from the CPU that a GPU would normally handle...thats the downside.

Anyway I am sure benchmakrs will be out soon to really show its performance.

 

[bigfib]

Multiprocessor optimised applications will be faster. Also running more than one program at a time will be faster. I'm pretty sure all of iLife and iWork are multi processor optimised and the professional apps most definately are. In optimised programs an average of a 66% speed boost is usually expectable.

Actually almost anything will be faster. Nearly all apps have multiple threads not to mention the OS and the threads are nicely distributed between the processors.

-

IntelImac Core Duo 17" 1.5Gb

 

[kugino]

If all I want to do is use this to watch movies on my tv & control my massive stereo system, will this be good enough? Will DVDs look as good as they would on a DVD player? Additionally, is there any reason to spring for the duo core or should I save my money? All the sound/video editing, word processing, etc, I will do on my powerbook. I assume that my planned activities are what apple has in mind when they designed this, but all y'all feaking out about the lack of video card scares me. Also, it seems many people on this thread assume apple has THEIR desires in mind, which I am hoping is just plain wrong. Anybody want to help me out a bit? Thanks!

don't let all the complainers on this thread scare you. many of them don't even know that in terms of power, this integrated video card is better than the 9200 32mb in the G4 mini. while you do lose some ram with the integrated card, it is not a downgrade in my opinion. heck, you couldn't even upgrade the 9200 card anyway, so it wasn't that much better.

for the purposes you're going to use it for (watching movies, listening to music, etc.) it's more than capable. for this the core single is more than enough...use the extra money to buy more ram. DVDs will look just as good as a DVD player.